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1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

The simple question is do you know, as fact, why any particular Millwall fan decided to boo?

It is common sense to understand what particular issues are, however in the case of Millwall supporters fans released a statement explaining why they were going to proceed as they did - Its out there somewhere on line. 

 

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

 Did that same fan attend the next game and specifically not boo because he was happy that the protest had changed? No one is claiming that everyone who boo'ed is racist, but your side of the argument are so quick to tell us they know exactly why people boo'd when quite frankly, you don't.

.

People are claiming consistently that the booing of the knee is racist, its supports racists and in threads of supporting ethnic nationalism and the far right. 

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

What you're also failing to recall is that although players linked arms and held a banner, QPR players and the referee took the knee afterwards. So why didn't they boo that if they so adamently disaprove of the knee? 

There was also the message to the fans "The eyes of the world are on this football club tonight - your club - and they want us to fail"

Also note this report from the night "Football fans applauded the anti-racist display, and there have been no reports of dissent – though any boos would have been drowned out by loud music which was being blasted by the venue."

I think they just realised they had to be on their best behaviour after the embarrasment of the previous game.

You may be interested in the views of the Millwall supporters club.

Anyone who believes it was a racist act, should read the views of those who booed and see they were doing it in reaction to the war memorials and statues of Churchill defaced by the BLM organisation and the extreme political views they hold, and for which ‘taking the knee’ is associated with. These same fans have never booed the Kick it Out campaigns on our pitch or the huge work of the Millwall Community Trust and its many anti-racism campaigns.

The word never is featured there.

The supporters club also acted as advocates by proactively seeking out supporters views.

As the official supporters’ club which represents all Millwall fans, our statement may to some have been delayed, but we have been determined to listen to as many different views as possible before commenting.

That is creating an evidence base. The Millwall supporters club by acting as advocates and using the history of fan behaviour know exactly why many fans acted as they have. 

 

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I actually think England will be subjected to a lot of booing when they take the knee, particularly from opposing fans, and in a way it could actually improve the team spirit with a 'in the trenches' spirit. 

The knee could be a significant factor in our success.

The scenes if Rashford scores the winner in the final and celebrates by...

 

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7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

It is common sense to understand what particular issues are, however in the case of Millwall supporters fans released a statement explaining why they were going to proceed as they did - Its out thre somewhere on line. 

 

People are claiming consistently that the booing of the knee is racist, its supports racists and in threads of supporting ethnic nationalism and the far right. 

You may be interested in the views of the Millwall supporters club.

Anyone who believes it was a racist act, should read the views of those who booed and see they were doing it in reaction to the war memorials and statues of Churchill defaced by the BLM organisation and the extreme political views they hold, and for which ‘taking the knee’ is associated with. These same fans have never booed the Kick it Out campaigns on our pitch or the huge work of the Millwall Community Trust and its many anti-racism campaigns.

The word never is feature there.

The supporters club also acted as advocates by proactively seeking out supporters views.

As the official supporters’ club which represents all Millwall fans, our statement may to some have been delayed, but we have been determined to listen to as many different views as possible before commenting.

That is creating an evidence base. The supporters club by acting as advocates and using the history of fan behaviour know exactly why many fans acted as they have. 

 

I have to say that the views of the Millwall Supporters Club pretty much sums it up for me. Good for them!

 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

It is common sense to understand what particular issues are, however in the case of Millwall supporters fans released a statement explaining why they were going to proceed as they did - Its out there somewhere on line. 

 

People are claiming consistently that the booing of the knee is racist, its supports racists and in threads of supporting ethnic nationalism and the far right. 

You may be interested in the views of the Millwall supporters club.

Anyone who believes it was a racist act, should read the views of those who booed and see they were doing it in reaction to the war memorials and statues of Churchill defaced by the BLM organisation and the extreme political views they hold, and for which ‘taking the knee’ is associated with. These same fans have never booed the Kick it Out campaigns on our pitch or the huge work of the Millwall Community Trust and its many anti-racism campaigns.

The word never is featured there.

The supporters club also acted as advocates by proactively seeking out supporters views.

As the official supporters’ club which represents all Millwall fans, our statement may to some have been delayed, but we have been determined to listen to as many different views as possible before commenting.

That is creating an evidence base. The Millwall supporters club by acting as advocates and using the history of fan behaviour know exactly why many fans acted as they have. 

 

Whilst I think parts of Millwall responded well to what happened, do you really expect any questioned fan to come out and say "I boo'd because I'm racist" or if they did, for it to be published by the supporters club? Of course not.

I cant find any statement that Millwall released before boo'ing but I'm not saying that doesn't exist.

I've never said everyone who boo's is racist, because its quite conceivable they aren't, but there is this attempt to find a reason to justify the actions. The players taking the knee had nothing to do with someone defacing a war memorial though.

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2 hours ago, Trueredsupporter said:

More from the far right with John Barnes saying he wouldnt take the knee, saying he doesnt think Gareth Southgate understands how complex racism is, states the England team is being used, asks what practical action has been created and points out the big issue of knife crime is being ignored.

Precisely. The voice of reason. 

Well said John, spoken from a man that, sadly, suffered beyond brutal racism. 

What is it with people that they either can’t, or refuse, to understand what he and many others have said?
 

I’ve no doubt for some it’s political point-scoring, others though who are either in the intellectual or compassion elite I’m at a loss with. 

 

Gets my vote for the man that should be heading up the FA equality/discrimination team, indeed, worthy of being in Government imo. 
 

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11 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Precisely. The voice of reason. 

Well said John, spoken from a man that, sadly, suffered beyond brutal racism. 

What is it with people that they either can’t, or refuse, to understand what he and many others have said?
 

I’ve no doubt for some it’s political point-scoring, others though who are either in the intellectual or compassion elite I’m at a loss with. 

 

Gets my vote for the man that should be heading up the FA equality/discrimination team, indeed, worthy of being in Government imo. 
 

You say he’s the voice of reason purely because you agree with him.  There are a fair few black players who don’t want anyone to take the knee but there are more that do want it.  What is it with people who either can’t, or refuse to understand, that England players taking the knee is separate to BLM, as they have explained?

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10 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Precisely. The voice of reason. 

Well said John, spoken from a man that, sadly, suffered beyond brutal racism. 

What is it with people that they either can’t, or refuse, to understand what he and many others have said?
 

I’ve no doubt for some it’s political point-scoring, others though who are either in the intellectual or compassion elite I’m at a loss with. 

 

Gets my vote for the man that should be heading up the FA equality/discrimination team, indeed, worthy of being in Government imo. 
 

I understand perfectly well what he has said. I am just not sure I agree with him.  It seems to me that the problem is those who listen to the views they like and then insist anyone who does not agree is somehow wrong. Particularly when they choose to go on about compassion elite as if anyone who disagrees with them has a political agenda.

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31 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Whilst I think parts of Millwall responded well to what happened, do you really expect any questioned fan to come out and say "I boo'd because I'm racist" or if they did, for it to be published by the supporters club? Of course not.

I cant find any statement that Millwall released before boo'ing but I'm not saying that doesn't exist.

I've never said everyone who boo's is racist, because its quite conceivable they aren't, but there is this attempt to find a reason to justify the actions. The players taking the knee had nothing to do with someone defacing a war memorial though.

I agree, it's laughable those that try to somehow say that fans are booing because someone defaced a war memorial, what utter tripe. Maybe a small minority, but most are booing because they don't agree with the BLM Protest. Players are just showing solidarity and highlighting the fact that much more needs to be done to tackle racism around the world. Every political wing has its extremists, but the vast majority are just ordinary people trying to draw attention to the plight and injustice many black people around the world feel. 

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1 minute ago, Strictly Obi said:

I agree, it's laughable those that try to somehow say that fans are booing because someone defaced a war memorial, what utter tripe. Maybe a small minority, but most are booing because they don't agree with the BLM Protest. Players are just showing solidarity and highlighting the fact that much more needs to be done to tackle racism around the world. Every political wing has its extremists, but the vast majority are just ordinary people trying to draw attention to the plight and injustice many black people around the world feel. 

Indeed.  Wasn’t much comeback on Chelsea supporters as a group from the ‘football lads’ about this defacement was there. It’s just another bullshit excuse…..

 

F9404127-D4B3-43B5-BF3B-89E1BA051438.thumb.jpeg.3b5958f13a28c29b2e6cb236c89272e6.jpeg

 

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22 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Whilst I think parts of Millwall responded well to what happened, do you really expect any questioned fan to come out and say "I boo'd because I'm racist" or if they did, for it to be published by the supporters club? Of course not.

I cant find any statement that Millwall released before boo'ing but I'm not saying that doesn't exist.

I've never said everyone who boo's is racist, because its quite conceivable they aren't, but there is this attempt to find a reason to justify the actions. The players taking the knee had nothing to do with someone defacing a war memorial though.

Because you feel in your mind the gesture has nothing to do with defacing a war memorial is your opinion, it does not alter what others visualize and feel. The gesture has a association with BLM, the taking of the knee having negative association in minds is a fact. I wholly agree the Millwall supporters club responded as should any organisation that purports to represent football fans by stating what is a fact.

Millwall then took this fact and decided to move on from this divisive gesture. Millwall fans are supportive of their anti racism initiatives. As they always have been. Well done Millwall. An improvement

What is occurring is the opposite. People are ignoring what are facts and displaying a closed mindset. 

Yougov identify support for taking the knee amongst fans at 54% (37% opposed) but 57% do not think its important (37% feel it is important). That is abysmal. Surely the aim is to be more unified than that, to have more meaning, more significance than that as a game. 

Would football benefit from Millwalls approach. My view is that it obviously would.

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For me, taking the knee at the start of a football match is devisive and inflammatory. Some are booing (for whatever reason) some aren’t. It can only be a matter of time before one persons reaction to the act results in a violent reaction from a fellow fan.

will we soon have to extend fan segregation to prevent the potential for violence?

politics and sport shouldn’t mix IMO. I also think many players are pressured into taking the knee, scared of the reaction if they question doing it.

But how anyone stops the gesture without being vilified escaped me

Edited by Paulton Red
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32 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

You say he’s the voice of reason purely because you agree with him.  There are a fair few black players who don’t want anyone to take the knee but there are more that do want it.  What is it with people who either can’t, or refuse to understand, that England players taking the knee is separate to BLM, as they have explained?

Frankly, couldn’t care either way whether they take the knee or not. Wouldn’t boo, wouldn’t clap.

Just think, as I said in my first posting, that it’s American-imported tokenism (with a political undertone), which - in my view - is a complete distraction from addressing the real issue. In that respect, I think it does more harm than good - but I’m sure others take the view that such gesturing has a major impact on the hearts and minds of those who are racist. That’s their choice and it’s fine if think that way. ‘Brick wall’ and ‘head’ comes to my mind, but maybe they are correct in their belief, so all good. 
 

BTW, I also believe that the view of John Barnes, who suffered absolutely abhorrent racism and has decades of experience of it, is someone who’s thoughts and views should be given a great deal of weight. Others may just justify  doing things on the majority say so. It’s a democracy, so that’s fine. 

Anyhow, I’ve gone full circle and returned to my start point, so have a good day, I’m out of here. 

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2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Because you feel in your mind the gesture has nothing to do with defacing a war memorial is your opinion, it does not alter what others visualize and feel. The gesture has a association with BLM, the taking of the knee having negative association in minds is a fact. I wholly agree the Millwall supporters club responded as should any organisation that purports to represent football fans by stating what is a fact.

Millwall then took this fact and decided to move on from this divisive gesture. Millwall fans are supportive of their anti racism initiatives. As they always have been. Well done Millwall. An improvement

What is occurring is the opposite. People are ignoring what are facts and displaying a closed mindset. 

Yougov identify support for taking the knee amongst fans at 54% (37% opposed) but 57% do not think its important (37% feel it is important). That is abysmal. Surely the aim is to be more unified than that, to have more meaning, more significance than that as a game. 

Would football benefit from Millwalls approach. My view is that it obviously would.

I think this is probably the heart of the issue. There is a stubbornness to see that the booing may not be racist - a refusal to acknowledge what those who have come out to say they are booing. 

Equally there is a stubbornness to see that taking the knee might not be about BLM the organisation - a refusal to acknowledge what the players have said taking the knee is about. 

I think it's probably that stubbornness to back down and have dialogue that makes a solution hard.

Players could probably change the actions or gesture to something else to make it clear they are kneeling in support of equality, but they can't do that while the current action is being booed or it looks like comprising, and probably feels/looks like placating the people booing for the wrong reasons. 

Fans could stop booing/make some other gesture that shows there disapproval of the links to BLM as an organisation, but they can't or it looks/feels like placating the people in support of BLM.

 

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2 hours ago, lenred said:

Indeed.  Wasn’t much comeback on Chelsea supporters as a group from the ‘football lads’ about this defacement was there. It’s just another bullshit excuse…..

 

F9404127-D4B3-43B5-BF3B-89E1BA051438.thumb.jpeg.3b5958f13a28c29b2e6cb236c89272e6.jpeg

 

I'm sure @Cowshed can point us in the direction of Millwall Supporters Club's view on this act, as they so vehemently condone vandalism of their memorials?

 

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Because you feel in your mind the gesture has nothing to do with defacing a war memorial is your opinion, it does not alter what others visualize and feel. The gesture has a association with BLM, the taking of the knee having negative association in minds is a fact. I wholly agree the Millwall supporters club responded as should any organisation that purports to represent football fans by stating what is a fact.

Millwall then took this fact and decided to move on from this divisive gesture. Millwall fans are supportive of their anti racism initiatives. As they always have been. Well done Millwall. An improvement

What is occurring is the opposite. People are ignoring what are facts and displaying a closed mindset. 

Yougov identify support for taking the knee amongst fans at 54% (37% opposed) but 57% do not think its important (37% feel it is important). That is abysmal. Surely the aim is to be more unified than that, to have more meaning, more significance than that as a game. 

Would football benefit from Millwalls approach. My view is that it obviously would.

FWIW I dont disagree with finding an alternative solution that everyone can get behind. It's solving nothing if it remains devisive. However, I have to agree to disagree on the motives and more importantly the link to BLM - as far as I can see players have noticed it's a concern and are making it very clear they do not support any politcal matter, and yet some fans dont accept that. The link is in their head now at this point. It harks back to the stories of people being asked to remove England flags from their cars at the height of the BNP/EDL rise to infamy. Not everyone who put out a St George's flag wanted to be associated with the BNP/EDL but because those groups had made such a strong connection to the flag people wrongly couldn't shake the association.

You still cant explain why they didn't boo the QPR players taking the knee afterwards if they were so against kneeling, especially with it being opposition players. Unless of course, they knew the world was watching them and they had to behave (or the reports of loud music drowning it out are true!)

2 hours ago, Paulton Red said:

For me, taking the knee at the start of a football match is devisive and inflammatory. Some are booing (for whatever reason) some aren’t. It can only be a matter of time before one persons reaction to the act results in a violent reaction from a fellow fan.

will we soon have to extend fan segregation to prevent the potential for violence?

politics and sport shouldn’t mix IMO. I also think many players are pressured into taking the knee, scared of the reaction if they question doing it.

But how anyone stops the gesture without being vilified escaped me

What makes you think players are pressured into it? Again, there's zero evidence this is the case? Many players now have not taken the knee and there's been no backlash or repercussion from it. Our own Kalas did it and I havent seen a single post condemning him. In fact those who agree or support the kneeling still applauded his decision and exercise his right to do what he thinks is best for him.

As for your last sentence, it's happened! Brentford havent done it since February! No villification that I'm aware of? Scotland have said they won't do it at the Euros and the only reason they appear to have decided to do it for the England game is because the boo'ers have taken their action and used at as some sort of validation that they are right.

I do share your concerns about when fans return, of course the simple answer is support the players and don't boo their actions, but if a new show of support could be found before next season then I'd be for that. I agree that the kneeling has almost got to a point where it's lost it's impact (other than raising debate amongst supporters) - but all these reactions and making up excuses for booing shows there is still a lot of work to be done.

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If taking the knee was stopped because of its apparent association with the BLM movement and another gesture replaced it, it wouldn’t be long before some people started booing whatever that new gesture was. Fact is these footballers are fed up, even at a level within their own footballer bubble, of their friends and colleagues being racially abused every time they lose a game or somebody plays poorly. If they want to take a knee to show their support for equality then I support them. If they want to do a backflip at kick off I’ll support that. 
Booing to keep politics out of football is just an excuse. Racism. isn’t. political. 

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10 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I'm sure @Cowshed can point us in the direction of Millwall Supporters Club's view on this act, as they so vehemently condone vandalism of their memorials?

 

Why don't you contact them? 

12 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

FWIW I dont disagree with finding an alternative solution that everyone can get behind. It's solving nothing if it remains devisive. However, I have to agree to disagree on the motives and more importantly the link to BLM - as far as I can see players have noticed it's a concern and are making it very clear they do not support any politcal matter, and yet some fans dont accept that. The link is in their head now at this point. 

Solutions don't start from your position - I don't believe. Advocacy - Millwall supporters club does not start with I do not believe. You think the Millwall fans and their supporters club are liars. I don't. Fans at Bristol City will and do have similar views. Similar views are in these threads consistently. I do feel those views are mostly sincere. 

Its a memory, good or bad and they are stored in the brain. 

25 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

You still cant explain why they didn't boo the QPR players taking the knee afterwards if they were so against kneeling, especially with it being opposition players. Unless of course, they knew the world was watching them and they had to behave (or the reports of loud music drowning it out are true!)

 

Whatever Millwalls fans had done I feel you would view it negatively. Millwall FC and fans are creating shared values and behaviour .. A shared vision of us rather than a divided us. That is what football should want. 

 

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1 hour ago, Dredd said:

If taking the knee was stopped because of its apparent association with the BLM movement and another gesture replaced it, it wouldn’t be long before some people started booing whatever that new gesture was. Fact is these footballers are fed up, even at a level within their own footballer bubble, of their friends and colleagues being racially abused every time they lose a game or somebody plays poorly. If they want to take a knee to show their support for equality then I support them. If they want to do a backflip at kick off I’ll support that. 
Booing to keep politics out of football is just an excuse. Racism. isn’t. political. 

If that's the case, why did they only start doing it in June 2020?

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2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Why don't you contact them? 

Solutions don't start from your position - I don't believe. Advocacy - Millwall supporters club does not start with I do not believe. You think the Millwall fans and their supporters club are liars. I don't. Fans at Bristol City will and do have similar views. Similar views are in these threads consistently. I do feel those views are mostly sincere. 

Its a memory, good or bad and they are stored in the brain. 

Whatever Millwalls fans had done I feel you would view it negatively. Millwall FC and fans are creating shared values and behaviour .. A shared vision of us rather than a divided us. That is what football should want. 

 

We're using Millwall fans very thinly veiled reasons for justifying why people should stop highlighting that racism is a problem. 

They use Winston Chrurchill, a known xenophobic amongst a myriad of things and helped to create concentration camps and the rest. Chuck in some jingoistic sabre rattling to 'totally deny' racism whilst using deliberately worded and loaded things to justify their stance.

it's pure deflection and it's not well hidden at that. 

It appears some are beyond redemption if that's what is being used to justify stuff. 

 

 

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Just look at this thread, then extrapolate this to society, then think we're actually a fairly diverse and progressive society, then think Ukraine, Russia, Hungary, Romania, Italy etc where they are not quite as progressive and think......  It's not going to end well and will take over from the football.

People have forgotten to take a step back and remember why we don't do political anything in football, its because it never ends well, I think there will be a substantial backlash against this when supporters get back in the grounds next season. 

On the other hand I think the stuff Ian Wright has done reading out pm's he's gotten on Insta, Twitter etc is exactly what needs to happen, damage the social media giants brand, then they will change from their hate for clicks model.  Focus on damaging the social media giants and not the football!

 

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You have not answered the question about the far right. I will pay you the courtesy of answering your post although I hardly feel courtesy is a noun I would apply to your posts.

12 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

We're using Millwall fans very thinly veiled reasons for justifying why people should stop highlighting that racism is a problem. 

 

  

No I have not. 

I have used Millwall as an example of how the fight against anti racism can be improved. Shared collective visions are more effective than divided ones.

13 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

They use Winston Chrurchill,

 

Use? Yes its a valid example of why some individuals think so dimly of BLM and any association with football. It may not be your valid but its a fact highlighted by a Supporters club.

16 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

a known xenophobic amongst a myriad of things and helped to create concentration camps and the rest.

 

 

A hero to many millions. The greatest Briton of all. Not my view but the view of a large part of the populace. Again valid.

The real Fascists not the make believe ones you think inhabit football stadiums and this forum were xenophobes. Murderous evil ones.

24 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Chuck in some jingoistic sabre rattling to 'totally deny' racism whilst using deliberately worded and loaded things to justify their stance.

 

Nobody is denying racism exists. Attacking the post not the poster that is untrue .. Fib.

30 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

 

it's pure deflection

 

Yes your posts are deflection. Nowhere do you even contemplate the ideas of advocacy and differing means of communication. 

27 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

It appears some are beyond redemption if that's what is being used to justify stuff. 

 

 

Justify stuff no you do not. You have been implying, inferring all kinds without justification and evidence. 

Footballs on night ..

 

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2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

If that's the case, why did they only start doing it in June 2020?

Because, for the black players, they or things had reached the point where it was no longer possible to carry on as before ie generally suffering in silence/putting up with it; not making a fuss.

In 1980, if Cyrille Regis had wanted to make a stand against the racist abuse he was receiving the game of football would not have countenance it; forty years on, and attitudes have changed. Cyrille's white team mates wouldn't have supported it. Today's white players, many of them, will.

The moment had arrived.

And unsurprisingly there's resistance, people who do not suffer racism don't want those that do "banging on" about it.

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58 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You have not answered the question about the far right. I will pay you the courtesy of answering your post although I hardly feel courtesy is a noun I would apply to your posts.

  

No I have not. 

I have used Millwall as an example of how the fight against anti racism can be improved. Shared collective visions are more effective than divided ones.

Use? Yes its a valid example of why some individuals think so dimly of BLM and any association with football. It may not be your valid but its a fact highlighted by a Supporters club.

A hero to many millions. The greatest Briton of all. Not my view but the view of a large part of the populace. Again valid.

The real Fascists not the make believe ones you think inhabit football stadiums and this forum were xenophobes. Murderous evil ones.

Nobody is denying racism exists. Attacking the post not the poster that is untrue .. Fib.

Yes your posts are deflection. Nowhere do you even contemplate the ideas of advocacy and differing means of communication. 

 

Justify stuff no you do not. You have been implying, inferring all kinds without justification and evidence. 

Footballs on night ..

 

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/06/11/trans-rights-black-lives-matter-movement-reality-facts/

 

They've done the studies.. 

and there goes your discourse. 

Toodles. 

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7 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Why don't you contact them? 

Solutions don't start from your position - I don't believe. Advocacy - Millwall supporters club does not start with I do not believe. You think the Millwall fans and their supporters club are liars. I don't. Fans at Bristol City will and do have similar views. Similar views are in these threads consistently. I do feel those views are mostly sincere. 

Its a memory, good or bad and they are stored in the brain. 

Whatever Millwalls fans had done I feel you would view it negatively. Millwall FC and fans are creating shared values and behaviour .. A shared vision of us rather than a divided us. That is what football should want. 

 

I haven’t contacted them because I don’t really care. It seems they are only bothered about war memorials when it’s BLM not when it’s other football supporters - or that wasn’t the real reason for booing.

I don’t think Millwall supporters club are liars, I do think some people could be dishonest about their reasons for booing - in the same way some people who agree with taking the knee might want to use it for political point scoring. There’s usually wrong uns  and ill intentioned people on both sides 

Lastly I’m not saying what millwall did was wrong (same way I don’t say Brentford refusing to take the knee is wrong) what I said was why didn’t they boo QPR players who still took the knee?

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6 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Marcus X.

Know that Wall have had a bit of rep and all that.

But do your really expect their supporters club to CONDONE vandalism of war memorials?

No, and I’m not sure that’s what I’ve said?

The statement suggested the reason they boo’d the knee is because of links to BLM and the statue - but they were dead silent (as were most of you) when Chelsea fans defaced the statue 

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13 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/06/11/trans-rights-black-lives-matter-movement-reality-facts/

 

They've done the studies.. 

and there goes your discourse. 

Toodles. 

Which is not an answer to the post or the question regarding the far right. I did give the article a cursory read. Detail regarding views across the specified voting group is skewed when applied to  C2's, D and E's .. But according to yourself we are xenophobes, racists bringing back the far right, thick gammon or summat anyway, and through your posts you accuse others of playing far right bingo.

Silly, crass but also quite nasty posting. 

9 hours ago, MarcusX said:

I haven’t contacted them because I don’t really care. It seems they are only bothered about war memorials when it’s BLM not when it’s other football supporters - or that wasn’t the real reason for booing.

 

I asked because it looks like you feel the MSC should be condoning the defacing of war memorials? A strange view. But in any case you are looking for a view from supporters there applied to a different timescale .. It happened in what was then the future. Its uneven when looked at critically.

9 hours ago, MarcusX said:

 

I don’t think Millwall supporters club are liars, I do think some people could be dishonest about their reasons for booing - in the same way some people who agree with taking the knee might want to use it for political point scoring. There’s usually wrong uns  and ill intentioned people on both sides 

Lastly I’m not saying what millwall did was wrong (same way I don’t say Brentford refusing to take the knee is wrong) what I said was why didn’t they boo QPR players who still took the knee?

Which is an improvement on your earlier post. Millwalls SC is representative, and advocacy the type I am involved in is reflecting, representing which occurred to realise (3r's) the improvement that was created. There are wrong uns in every socio economic group. Applying there is usually wrong uns introduces bias into advocacy and can ignore what fans in this case were really collectively saying. There were themes -  Reflect the themes to represent to realise ..

9 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Lastly I’m not saying what millwall did was wrong (same way I don’t say Brentford refusing to take the knee is wrong) what I said was why didn’t they boo QPR players who still took the knee?

Link arms, banners, QPR players dropping to the knee for seconds. Mass head scratching? Maybe fans should have done the hokey cokey? Or something that involved spinning on their heads? Millwall fans changed their behaviour that was a form of negative communication. That is a fact. There is a clear altering antecedent present.  

Edited by Cowshed
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16 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Which is not an answer to the post or the question regarding the far right. I did give the article a cursory read. Detail regarding views across the specified voting group is skewed when applied to  C2's, D and E's .. But according to yourself we are xenophobes, racists bringing back the far right, thick gammon or summat anyway, and through your posts you accuse others of playing far right bingo.

Silly, crass but also quite nasty posting. 

 

So because you've literally made something up, I'm crass. It's a different model of discussion for sure. 

I appreciate that you're discourse had nothing, but to actively eschew the research that confirms that those who are anti the knee have detachment from reality rather confirms the findings of the same report. 

Enjoy whatever reality your post seems to be inhabiting. 

Bizarre way to start a weekend for sure....

 

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RalphsMilnesLeftFoot is there any chance of you explaining whats in your posts and why posters on this site are racists, xenophobes, terfs (was that one??) nationalists (civic or national??), fascists and how the UK is heading towards far right nationalism??
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