Davefevs Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, TomF said: In England’s case you have the bizzare situation that finishing 1st means they play a 2nd place team out of a group containing France, Germany, Portugal and Hungry. Finishing 2nd they potentially get a much easier last 16 tie.. in normal times I’d have every group sussed, the various permutations, etc….I well out of touch this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, TomF said: In England’s case you have the bizzare situation that finishing 1st means they play a 2nd place team out of a group containing France, Germany, Portugal and Hungry. Finishing 2nd they potentially get a much easier last 16 tie.. I think we will finish top and France too; the other three are no better than we are. Nothing to worry about. If Ukraine play like that in their next two games they will qualify with a canter. They play just the same in the last tournaments where I watched them.. I am assuming Shevchenko has been in place sometime or carried on the same gung ho attitude from before and when needed. Very entertaining from both sides. I think we can beat them both though but I would actually fear the Ukrainians more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillred Posted June 13, 2021 Report Share Posted June 13, 2021 10 hours ago, Son of Fred said: I actually am. Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Yaga Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 7 hours ago, JonDolman said: I thought we made them look poor. I think an England side from years ago could have done that Just rewatching the 2nd half and I think you make a fair point. Minutes 45-70 we dominated possession and when Croatia got the ball we pressed them and they got nowhere. In the last 20 they passed it around more but couldn't play it through our midfield and when they took it wide they also didn't get any good chances from their crosses. From what I saw Modric was playing really deep and on the few occasions he engaged our midfield they were all over him. It was quite a stop start half as well which played into our hands, looking back it was all very comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS2 Red Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 8 hours ago, Davefevs said: in normal times I’d have every group sussed, the various permutations, etc….I well out of touch this summer. I'm the same. I also keep forgetting that a lot of the third placed teams qualify for the next round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 They've got some front.. then again it is that s**trag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 13 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: I think that should be taken as a given though. Obviously the coaches and management are technically more 'qualified' than fans, but it doesn't mean fans can't have an opinion otherwise what's the point. There will be many times when coaches and managers get things wrong and fans should be able to debate and discuss anything they want about the sport. They pay enough money via tickets, merchandise or tv subscriptions to be able to have an opinion. Of course an opinion, but fans need to accept they will never have the full facts. They dont know who's woken up feeling ill, or had a bad nights sleep, or had some bad news in the family. Even things such as player relations and personality clashes. The things that at the top level make a big difference. When it results in personal abuse e.g. Southgates "a clown", "clueless", etc it's ridiculous. Everyone gets things wrong but one thing's for sure he knows more and is more qualified than 99% of England fans. Not to mention the ones who question team selection without knowing the rules and criteria 12 hours ago, BCFC Grim said: Exactly right..... Can someone please give explain why two goal keepers were named on the bench rather than one of the two really good players that were left out? Secondly, today was decent but I feel some are hyping it more than it was ( especially the BBC) . It was a start, nothing more. Improvement definitely needed, although we never really looked like conceding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 10 hours ago, TomF said: In England’s case you have the bizzare situation that finishing 1st means they play a 2nd place team out of a group containing France, Germany, Portugal and Hungry. Finishing 2nd they potentially get a much easier last 16 tie.. After the moaning about "easy games" at the World Cup I'd like to see us play the best teams and just go for it. You've got to beat someone decent at some point - imagine the confidence from despatching a Germany or Portugal early on, especially with it being at Wembley we'd have a massive chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Of course an opinion, but fans need to accept they will never have the full facts. They dont know who's woken up feeling ill, or had a bad nights sleep, or had some bad news in the family. Even things such as player relations and personality clashes. The things that at the top level make a big difference. When it results in personal abuse e.g. Southgates "a clown", "clueless", etc it's ridiculous. Everyone gets things wrong but one thing's for sure he knows more and is more qualified than 99% of England fans. Not to mention the ones who question team selection without knowing the rules and criteria In fairness I had no idea about the 2 keepers rule until this thread so it serves an educational purpose too. I think most fans accept that as a given. Some use football as a bit of a venting exercise so naturally there's lots of exaggeration and hyperbole. Of course he's more qualified, but my point is that it'll always be this way. Fans will give their view, exaggerate it a bit and get their point across. 1 minute ago, MarcusX said: After the moaning about "easy games" at the World Cup I'd like to see us play the best teams and just go for it. You've got to beat someone decent at some point - imagine the confidence from despatching a Germany or Portugal early on, especially with it being at Wembley we'd have a massive chance Agreed - Portugal or Germany would be tough, but at Wembley and off the back of winning (potentially) all 3 group games I think we'd give it a really good go. Ideally I'd like to avoid France if possible, but I don't think we've got much to fear from any other team really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, MarcusX said: After the moaning about "easy games" at the World Cup I'd like to see us play the best teams and just go for it. You've got to beat someone decent at some point - imagine the confidence from despatching a Germany or Portugal early on, especially with it being at Wembley we'd have a massive chance I think just more worried that the other group could turn up all sorts of situations and we end up playing France in the L16.. that would be tough - mind you if we dispose of the current WC holders then expectation might go through the roof and just worry about the pressure on the team then. Playing at Wembley is certainly a massive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 6 hours ago, Baba Yaga said: Just rewatching the 2nd half and I think you make a fair point. Minutes 45-70 we dominated possession and when Croatia got the ball we pressed them and they got nowhere. In the last 20 they passed it around more but couldn't play it through our midfield and when they took it wide they also didn't get any good chances from their crosses. From what I saw Modric was playing really deep and on the few occasions he engaged our midfield they were all over him. It was quite a stop start half as well which played into our hands, looking back it was all very comfortable. Luca Modric. Pass Map Actions map: I’d say Mount and Phillips did a very good job on him, Rice too. Nothing around our box! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 47 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Of course an opinion, but fans need to accept they will never have the full facts. They dont know who's woken up feeling ill, or had a bad nights sleep, or had some bad news in the family. Even things such as player relations and personality clashes. The things that at the top level make a big difference. When it results in personal abuse e.g. Southgates "a clown", "clueless", etc it's ridiculous. Everyone gets things wrong but one thing's for sure he knows more and is more qualified than 99% of England fans. Not to mention the ones who question team selection without knowing the rules and criteria I asked for clarification of the rules as it made no sense.......Clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 14 hours ago, And Its Smith said: Denmark's Euro 2020 match against Finland should not have restarted after midfielder Christian Eriksen collapsed mid-game, coach Kasper Hjulmand says. "No, we should not have played," Hjulmand said on Sunday. “Players have different reactions to shocks and trauma but we'll try to get back to normal as much as possible. I get the feelings from the players that maybe the time is too short to try to play football again, but maybe we can use it as a force to get together and try to go out and do our best in the next match." Thanks for confirming. Good to see that there was no outside pressure, even if it was felt by some that the players made the wrong decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said: In fairness I had no idea about the 2 keepers rule until this thread so it serves an educational purpose too. I think most fans accept that as a given. Some use football as a bit of a venting exercise so naturally there's lots of exaggeration and hyperbole. Of course he's more qualified, but my point is that it'll always be this way. Fans will give their view, exaggerate it a bit and get their point across. Agreed - Portugal or Germany would be tough, but at Wembley and off the back of winning (potentially) all 3 group games I think we'd give it a really good go. Ideally I'd like to avoid France if possible, but I don't think we've got much to fear from any other team really. We'd be flying, but we'd need to manage expectations. If France end up second though, that means they're beatable. 1 hour ago, TomF said: I think just more worried that the other group could turn up all sorts of situations and we end up playing France in the L16.. that would be tough - mind you if we dispose of the current WC holders then expectation might go through the roof and just worry about the pressure on the team then. Playing at Wembley is certainly a massive advantage. As above you're right we'd have to manage those expectations. I dont think Gareth would let them get carried away, he's been there as player and manager he knows how it feels. I think France would be tough, but I think we can beat them if we show up its a shame we wont have a full crowd at Wembley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, MarcusX said: We'd be flying, but we'd need to manage expectations. If France end up second though, that means they're beatable. As above you're right we'd have to manage those expectations. I dont think Gareth would let them get carried away, he's been there as player and manager he knows how it feels. I think France would be tough, but I think we can beat them if we show up its a shame we wont have a full crowd at Wembley I think we probably will finish on 9 points. I think we have genuine depth and quality within our squad now, especially in attack. Unless they raise their game hugely I can't see Scotland getting anything from us and I'd definitely fancy us against Czech Republic. It's amazing really to compare this squad even to the Euro 2012 one and the strength/depth we have 1 GK Joe Hart 19 April 1987 (aged 25) 22 0 Manchester City 13 GK Robert Green 18 January 1980 (aged 32) 12 0 West Ham United 23 GK Jack Butland 10 March 1993 (aged 19) 0 0 Birmingham City 2 DF Glen Johnson 23 August 1984 (aged 27) 40 1 Liverpool 3 DF Ashley Cole 20 December 1980 (aged 31) 98 0 Chelsea 5 DF Martin Kelly 27 April 1990 (aged 22) 1 0 Liverpool 6 DF John Terry 7 December 1980 (aged 31) 77 6 Chelsea 12 DF Leighton Baines 11 December 1984 (aged 27) 8 0 Everton 14 DF Phil Jones 21 February 1992 (aged 20) 5 0 Manchester United 15 DF Joleon Lescott 16 August 1982 (aged 29) 20 1 Manchester City 18 DF Phil Jagielka 17 August 1982 (aged 29) 12 0 Everton 4 MF Steven Gerrard (captain) 30 May 1980 (aged 32) 96 19 Liverpool 8 MF Jordan Henderson 17 June 1990 (aged 21) 5 0 Liverpool 11 MF Ashley Young 9 July 1985 (aged 26) 25 6 Manchester United 16 MF James Milner 4 January 1986 (aged 26) 30 0 Manchester City 17 MF Scott Parker 13 October 1980 (aged 31) 17 0 Tottenham Hotspur 19 MF Stewart Downing 22 July 1984 (aged 27) 34 0 Liverpool 20 MF Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain 15 August 1993 (aged 18) 5 0 Arsenal 7 FW Theo Walcott 16 March 1989 (aged 23) 28 4 Arsenal 9 FW Andy Carroll 6 January 1989 (aged 23) 7 2 Liverpool 10 FW Wayne Rooney 24 October 1985 (aged 26) 76 29 Manchester United 21 FW Jermain Defoe 7 October 1982 (aged 29) 48 15 Tottenham Hotspur 22 FW Danny Welbeck 26 November 1990 (aged 21) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 On 13/06/2021 at 08:58, Port Said Red said: It had to be played some time, they made the best choice. Your wording in other posts suggests outside pressure which has shown not to be the case. Sounding like they were "forced" or at least made to feel they had to play. Sorry its Daily Mail but heard it on the radio and had to find a source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9683821/Peter-Schmeichel-insists-UEFA-threatened-Denmark-3-0-forfeit-defeat-against-Finland.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 27 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Sounding like they were "forced" or at least made to feel they had to play. Sorry its Daily Mail but heard it on the radio and had to find a source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9683821/Peter-Schmeichel-insists-UEFA-threatened-Denmark-3-0-forfeit-defeat-against-Finland.html Imagine the uproar if that was true. Even UEFA wouldn't be that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 47 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: I think we probably will finish on 9 points. I think we have genuine depth and quality within our squad now, especially in attack. Unless they raise their game hugely I can't see Scotland getting anything from us and I'd definitely fancy us against Czech Republic. It's amazing really to compare this squad even to the Euro 2012 one and the strength/depth we have 1 GK Joe Hart 19 April 1987 (aged 25) 22 0 Manchester City 13 GK Robert Green 18 January 1980 (aged 32) 12 0 West Ham United 23 GK Jack Butland 10 March 1993 (aged 19) 0 0 Birmingham City 2 DF Glen Johnson 23 August 1984 (aged 27) 40 1 Liverpool 3 DF Ashley Cole 20 December 1980 (aged 31) 98 0 Chelsea 5 DF Martin Kelly 27 April 1990 (aged 22) 1 0 Liverpool 6 DF John Terry 7 December 1980 (aged 31) 77 6 Chelsea 12 DF Leighton Baines 11 December 1984 (aged 27) 8 0 Everton 14 DF Phil Jones 21 February 1992 (aged 20) 5 0 Manchester United 15 DF Joleon Lescott 16 August 1982 (aged 29) 20 1 Manchester City 18 DF Phil Jagielka 17 August 1982 (aged 29) 12 0 Everton 4 MF Steven Gerrard (captain) 30 May 1980 (aged 32) 96 19 Liverpool 8 MF Jordan Henderson 17 June 1990 (aged 21) 5 0 Liverpool 11 MF Ashley Young 9 July 1985 (aged 26) 25 6 Manchester United 16 MF James Milner 4 January 1986 (aged 26) 30 0 Manchester City 17 MF Scott Parker 13 October 1980 (aged 31) 17 0 Tottenham Hotspur 19 MF Stewart Downing 22 July 1984 (aged 27) 34 0 Liverpool 20 MF Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain 15 August 1993 (aged 18) 5 0 Arsenal 7 FW Theo Walcott 16 March 1989 (aged 23) 28 4 Arsenal 9 FW Andy Carroll 6 January 1989 (aged 23) 7 2 Liverpool 10 FW Wayne Rooney 24 October 1985 (aged 26) 76 29 Manchester United 21 FW Jermain Defoe 7 October 1982 (aged 29) 48 15 Tottenham Hotspur 22 FW Danny Welbeck 26 November 1990 (aged 21) You'd probably only take Rooney, Gerrard and Terry from that team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 49 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Sounding like they were "forced" or at least made to feel they had to play. Sorry its Daily Mail but heard it on the radio and had to find a source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9683821/Peter-Schmeichel-insists-UEFA-threatened-Denmark-3-0-forfeit-defeat-against-Finland.html Well they had 3 options. Play now, play the next day or Finland get the win, as per the rules of the tournament. not sure what else UEFA should/could do. If Eriksen had passed on the pitch I think we would have been looking at a different scenario, but he didn't, he's making jokes apparently today. IMO the Danish team should have agreed to play the next day. Would have given them the chance to re-group, see how Christian was and go from there. Also, had they won the game, would Peter have mentioned it? I doubt it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 52 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: It's amazing really to compare this squad even to the Euro 2012 one and the strength/depth we have 1 GK Joe Hart 19 April 1987 (aged 25) 22 0 Manchester City 13 GK Robert Green 18 January 1980 (aged 32) 12 0 West Ham United 23 GK Jack Butland 10 March 1993 (aged 19) 0 0 Birmingham City 2 DF Glen Johnson 23 August 1984 (aged 27) 40 1 Liverpool 3 DF Ashley Cole 20 December 1980 (aged 31) 98 0 Chelsea 5 DF Martin Kelly 27 April 1990 (aged 22) 1 0 Liverpool 6 DF John Terry 7 December 1980 (aged 31) 77 6 Chelsea 12 DF Leighton Baines 11 December 1984 (aged 27) 8 0 Everton 14 DF Phil Jones 21 February 1992 (aged 20) 5 0 Manchester United 15 DF Joleon Lescott 16 August 1982 (aged 29) 20 1 Manchester City 18 DF Phil Jagielka 17 August 1982 (aged 29) 12 0 Everton 4 MF Steven Gerrard (captain) 30 May 1980 (aged 32) 96 19 Liverpool 8 MF Jordan Henderson 17 June 1990 (aged 21) 5 0 Liverpool 11 MF Ashley Young 9 July 1985 (aged 26) 25 6 Manchester United 16 MF James Milner 4 January 1986 (aged 26) 30 0 Manchester City 17 MF Scott Parker 13 October 1980 (aged 31) 17 0 Tottenham Hotspur 19 MF Stewart Downing 22 July 1984 (aged 27) 34 0 Liverpool 20 MF Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain 15 August 1993 (aged 18) 5 0 Arsenal 7 FW Theo Walcott 16 March 1989 (aged 23) 28 4 Arsenal 9 FW Andy Carroll 6 January 1989 (aged 23) 7 2 Liverpool 10 FW Wayne Rooney 24 October 1985 (aged 26) 76 29 Manchester United 21 FW Jermain Defoe 7 October 1982 (aged 29) 48 15 Tottenham Hotspur 22 FW Danny Welbeck 26 November 1990 (aged 21) Between 2008 and 2016 it really felt like England were on the decline and the lack of talent coming through the ranks was pretty poor. I think the loan market has been used very well by the Premier League clubs since then (Mount, Grealish, Tammy, Kane, James) and because there has to be a cap on the amount of English players in a squad it has forced clubs in the Prem to look at young English talent and play them (Foden, Trent, Stones, Shaw, Rice, Grealish). Our academy set up as a Country has improved massively during the last 10 years, which has focused coaching more on the continental game of having the ball at your feet than what English football focused on in the past (Strength and speed). Long may it continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, grifty said: IMO the Danish team should have agreed to play the next day. Would have given them the chance to re-group, see how Christian was and go from there. I disagree, I think shock would of set in. Also players have really strict food prep so they are in best condition for the day, the day after would affect their performance in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 Scotland vs Kalas later, lets hope he scores against them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, grifty said: You'd probably only take Rooney, Gerrard and Terry from that team Agreed. I think at the time Andy Carroll was a good option to have but DCL is much better. Amazingly poor side really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 33 minutes ago, grifty said: You'd probably only take Rooney, Gerrard and Terry from that team Not Ashley Cole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Super said: Not Ashley Cole? I think you'd take Rooney, Gerrard, Terry, Cole, Lescott (Our current CB aren't the best) and Joe Hart (Was good in 2012 lets not forget). Also lets not forget Rooney and Gerrard massively flattered to deceive in an England shirt most of their career. Just great club players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 Just now, 2015 said: I think you'd take Rooney, Gerrard, Terry, Cole, Lescott (Our current CB aren't the best) and Joe Hart (Was good in 2012 lets not forget). Also lets not forget Rooney and Gerrard massively flattered to deceive in an England shirt most of their career. Just great club players Cole was one of the few world class players we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 Just now, Super said: Cole was one of the few world class players we had. Best left back in the World at his peak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 21 hours ago, Shaun Taylor said: I'd swap him for Keown Jenas seems to be on everything these days. Put the One Show on the other day and he is a presenter on that ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2015 Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 Also think it was criminal not giving Michael Carrick a chance to play for England more around Euro 2012 era, someone who could dictate the pace of a game and be a deep lying playmaker which we cried out for. Far better than Parker and Barry. He'd have walked into the current squad imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstart Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, Super said: Jenas seems to be on everything these days. Put the One Show on the other day and he is a presenter on that ffs Who the hell watches the One Show ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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