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Euro 2021/21


daored

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I may be in the minority here, but I want England to go all the way and if it means grinding out the boring 1-0 wins then BRING IT ON. 

I am p!553d off with us being the 'nearly' men; getting knocked out in the semis or quarters and 80110cks to 'exciting' 4-3 defeats - they are DEFEATS FFS - I had enough of those watching City under Benny back in 1999.  

Lets get some silverware - whilst I'm still alive - I missed 1966 by one year (I was born in 1967) so I've NEVER seen us lift a major international trophy, but I've seen plenty of 'exciting' defeats. 

Bring it home Gareth.................

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1 minute ago, Simon bristol said:

It would feel great, but they would absolutely annihilate us.

Would they? They have amazing strength and depth but didn’t look fantastic against Hungary. At Wembley I think we’d give anyone a game.

I think playing as underdogs would probably suit us.

I find analysis like this ‘X would annihilate us’ without any rationale quite lazy really. It feels as if some almost prefer England do perform badly just so there’s something to moan about.

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Would they? They have amazing strength and depth but didn’t look fantastic against Hungary. At Wembley I think we’d give anyone a game.

I think playing as underdogs would probably suit us.

We could barely muster anything creative against scotland or Czech republic, who have scottish league players and bristol city players. That france team is like the harlem globetrotters, they will have us chasing shadows for 90 minutes, we will be playing long ball to kane after 5 minutes and lose at least 3-0

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19 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Exactly - we’ve had the majority of possession on average in the 3 games and it’s shown it doesn’t suit us by our lack of shots on target and conceding more against. 

I think with the pace in our side we will look far more dangerous when we’re forced to counter attack which we would against stronger sides.

In one game!

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33 minutes ago, Sturny said:

I don't know exactly why but I hope we get France. I think out of those 3, beating them would feel the best.

Despite them winning the World Cup in 2018, they have never impressed me too much under Deschamps, if anything a better version of how England set up and play. There was an arrogance to them against Hungary pre match on Saturday that I didn't like. I would hope our players would be up for it and their players would just 'expect' to win.

Their results have not been overly impressive since the World Cup win

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57 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I was playing devils advocate of course.  Greece were on another level of boring to England so far. 

However for all the calls for expansive play.. I remember when Germany humped us 4-1 in the WC 2010 playing just like everyone wanted. We just got picked off on the counter.. 

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32 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I may be in the minority here, but I want England to go all the way and if it means grinding out the boring 1-0 wins then BRING IT ON. 

I am p!553d off with us being the 'nearly' men; getting knocked out in the semis or quarters and 80110cks to 'exciting' 4-3 defeats - they are DEFEATS FFS - I had enough of those watching City under Benny back in 1999.  

Lets get some silverware - whilst I'm still alive - I missed 1966 by one year (I was born in 1967) so I've NEVER seen us lift a major international trophy, but I've seen plenty of 'exciting' defeats. 

Bring it home Gareth.................

I can just remember 1966 - but like anyone else who can...it seems like a lifetime ago!!

And, lest we forget, we won that as "Ramsey's wingless wonders" under a manager who was much criticised for his negative and cautious approach.

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25 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

We could barely muster anything creative against scotland or Czech republic, who have scottish league players and bristol city players. That france team is like the harlem globetrotters, they will have us chasing shadows for 90 minutes, we will be playing long ball to kane after 5 minutes and lose at least 3-0

So why did France draw against Hungary who have a Bristol city player?

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56 minutes ago, spudski said:

Sako and Grealish were a joy to watch yesterday. So refreshing.

Football has become so robotic.

It's like watching chess.

Certain movements are made everytime. Each nullifying the other. Team A makes a pass or move, and Team B makes the move the nullify it 

It's so ingrained into the players that they don't even think for themselves anymore. You can see that they know what moves and passes to make that won't be a risk. Back and forth, sideways and sideways. It's soooooo ingrained...now played at almost walking pace.

How many times do you see the likes of Walker get wide, have the opportunity to pass forward, but won't risk it, turn back, and pass sideways again!!! It's turgid. Recycle, recycle. 

And nearly every team plays the same way.

How refreshing to see two players break the lines, run at players, dribble, move, caress the ball, look to progress.

The rest look like robots to me. Fully drilled with no imagination.

Sad it's come to this 

If we had the fitness of today, with the imagination of natural footballers of the past, it would be so much more entertaining.d

Quoting myself here...but it crossed my mind...would it be possible and achievable to introduce a manager who could radically shake up the way we play as 'safe ol' England'?

Imagine someone like Bielsa in charge...playing 3331...

Would a manager have time on the International scene to implement a philosophy different to how we play so predictably now?

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

We might look a lot better against stronger sides. I don’t think having lots of possession and being forced to break sides down who sit fairly deep suits us. I think England vs Portugal or Germany at home is very winnable.

France obviously look a class above most other teams but even they struggled against Hungary.

We haven’t been that exciting yet but haven’t lost or even conceded - people should be a bit more positive and try and enjoy the tournament. 

Dion Dublin made an excellent point on TV earlier by pointing out that Southgate’s first job was to get England out of the group and achieved that by not conceding which meant playing a largely defensive style throughout the group matches - very drab, bland and uninspiring to England fans but job done.

Now having reached the last 16 DD reckons we’ll see England playing with far more freedom and flair - let’s hope he’s right!

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55 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Jesus Christ ????? stop playing football manager  

your either a very angry man or a very immature child to have a go just because people have a different opinion if you. for what it’s worth i believe the warm up games were wasted by southgate

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24 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Dion Dublin made an excellent point on TV earlier by pointing out that Southgate’s first job was to get England out of the group and achieved that by not conceding which meant playing a largely defensive style throughout the group matches - very drab, bland and uninspiring to England fans but job done.

Now having reached the last 16 DD reckons we’ll see England playing with far more freedom and flair - let’s hope he’s right!

 

I'm yet to see that under GS. So I'm not expecting much to change in the last 16.

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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Question for anyone

We would all prefer Hungary over Germany, Portugal or France right?

But if Hungary get a win against Germany and knock them out, surely we should be more concerned about Hungary than the Germans anyway? There's no easy game next whatever happens, but I think I'd prefer to play a team that sets up to attack us and we play on the counter - if we could somehow perform like we did against Spain in that Nations League game for example we could be dangerous (albeit that was how long ago!?)

It’s a fair point but I’d argue that It would unlikely Hungary raise their game to pull off 2 big away wins in a row, where as Germany are simply a better team regardless of tonight’s result, and would pose more problems for us.

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16 minutes ago, spudski said:

Quoting myself here...but it crossed my mind...would it be possible and achievable to introduce a manager who could radically shake up the way we play as 'safe ol' England'?

Imagine someone like Bielsa in charge...playing 3331...

Would a manager have time on the International scene to implement a philosophy different to how we play so predictably now?

Of course they can.

Mr Southgate is taking principles of play but applying a conservative mindset.Your point about Kyle Walker. For England he resets possession, starts again, recycles from a position of width. For Man City Walker goes beyond midfield, plays in half spaces, plays with one two's and wall passes. Same principle of possession but a different player due to the Mangers approach to possession. Turn it around that's a Manger taking decision making and problem solving away from a player - Keep shape, keep the ball etc. 

Creativity is also trained in. Mr Southgate is taking the creativity out of the second third. The base of possession has been increased from first third to second third. In the second third England also reset and start again .. It really doesn't have to be that way .. Too late now to change.

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1 hour ago, Simon bristol said:

We could barely muster anything creative against scotland or Czech republic, who have scottish league players and bristol city players. That france team is like the harlem globetrotters, they will have us chasing shadows for 90 minutes, we will be playing long ball to kane after 5 minutes and lose at least 3-0

I think we’d raise our game in exactly the same way as Scotland raised their game against us. 
Still not sure it will be enough mind.

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15 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Of course they can.

Mr Southgate is taking principles of play but applying a conservative mindset.Your point about Kyle Walker. For England he resets possession, starts again, recycles from a position of width. For Man City Walker goes beyond midfield, plays in half spaces, plays with one two's and wall passes. Same principle of possession but a different player due to the Mangers approach to possession. Turn it around that's a Manger taking decision making and problem solving away from a player - Keep shape, keep the ball etc. 

Creativity is also trained in. Mr Southgate is taking the creativity out of the second third. The base of possession has been increased from first third to second third. In the second third England also reset and start again .. It really doesn't have to be that way .. Too late now to change.

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.

The conservative way we play is easy for the England players to do.

It's very basic football, coached by nearly every team in its pattern of play.

Like I said...it's ingrained, robotic and easy to do with these players, as it's methods used week in week out.

I see very little creativity. It's the same old moves. Nullified by the opposition with the same moves.

You can literally pre empt what's going to happen next.

Southgate knows it's a safe option.

My point...was more towards, whether a new manager like Bielsa, would have the time to coach his approach, which is radically different, to England players, to a standard that would be ingrained and successful. 

How much time do you need with limitations on England training sessions for it to become ingrained and successful?

Months...years?

Let's face it...the type of football we play is bulk standard basic. You don't need a coach...these players can do this with their eyes shut, it's that basic and ingrained.

Something needs to change. It's way too predictable. 

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46 minutes ago, frenchred said:

your either a very angry man or a very immature child to have a go just because people have a different opinion if you. for what it’s worth i believe the warm up games were wasted by southgate

Not angry or immature , quite the opposite  . Some people way over analyse football . The amount of depth he went into was ridiculous.

It’s quite simple. If Man Utd, Man City & Chelsea had not made those European finals & all players had been rested & available to southgate. Do you think he would of played the players he did in the warm up games ?  

its all irrelevant now anyway
We’re through 3 clean sheets & no injuries or suspensions . 

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13 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.

The conservative way we play is easy for the England players to do.

It's very basic football, coached by nearly every team in its pattern of play.

Like I said...it's ingrained, robotic and easy to do with these players, as it's methods used week in week out.

I see very little creativity. It's the same old moves. Nullified by the opposition with the same moves.

You can literally pre empt what's going to happen next.

Southgate knows it's a safe option.

My point...was more towards, whether a new manager like Bielsa, would have the time to coach his approach, which is radically different, to England players, to a standard that would be ingrained and successful. 

How much time do you need with limitations on England training sessions for it to become ingrained and successful?

Months...years?

Let's face it...the type of football we play is bulk standard basic. You don't need a coach...these players can do this with their eyes shut, it's that basic and ingrained.

Something needs to change. It's way too predictable. 

I don’t often take things up with you Spudski but in this case using the England’s ‘robotic’ style in the three games to highlight your view of whats football per se has become is not a true reflection 

I refer to comments made DD on tv earlier that Southgate's first job was to get England out of the group and it wasn’t pretty but ultimately the job was done but at the expense of not playing any fluid or ‘front foot’ football that we fans love to see.

DD reckoned that now the Euros have become knock out we’ll see England go onto the front foot and Southgate unleashing the likes of Saka, Grealish and Sterling and if England progress the option of Fodin rejoining.

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8 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments.

The conservative way we play is easy for the England players to do.

It's very basic football, coached by nearly every team in its pattern of play.

Like I said...it's ingrained, robotic and easy to do with these players, as it's methods used week in week out.

I see very little creativity. It's the same old moves. Nullified by the opposition with the same moves.

You can literally pre empt what's going to happen next.

Southgate knows it's a safe option.

My point...was more towards, whether a new manager like Bielsa, would have the time to coach his approach, which is radically different, to England players, to a standard that would be ingrained and successful. 

How much time do you need with limitations on England training sessions for it to become ingrained and successful?

Months...years?

Let's face it...the type of football we play is bulk standard basic. You don't need a coach...these players can do this with their eyes shut, it's that basic and ingrained.

Something needs to change. It's way too predictable. 

Biesla had less than two (?) years with Chile.

England's players do play in teams that do not all play the same.  Liverpool - Man City there are clear differences. There is talent in the squad to do differently. Radical? Certainly significantly different. I personally feel its Mr Southgate interpretation of modern football is too chess like and too conservative ... Its not a question of time, Mr Southgate creates the basic, players follow the basic .. I'm not singling Walker out as a world beater but he within the England team becomes less mobile .. This can be reversed by a coach desiring different.

12 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Not angry or immature , quite the opposite  . Some people way over analyse football . The amount of depth he went into was ridiculous.

 

I barely went into any depth at all, there was little analysis, and my posts were a polite response to your posts (angry?).  

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Was a bit boring last night but its not often that England win the group so that part of it was good. Next game will be very exciting and a proper test no matter who the opponents are, have us as underdogs against France, Germany and Portugal but with home advantage it is set up very nicely.

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16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I don’t often take things up with you Spudski but in this case using the England’s ‘robotic’ style in the three games to highlight your view of whats football per se has become is not a true reflection 

I refer to comments made DD on tv earlier that Southgate's first job was to get England out of the group and it wasn’t pretty but ultimately the job was done but at the expense of not playing any fluid or ‘front foot’ football that we fans love to see.

DD reckoned that now the Euros have become knock out we’ll see England go onto the front foot and Southgate unleashing the likes of Saka, Grealish and Sterling and if England progress the option of Fodin rejoining.

Its an opinion but a valid one. 

Both I and Spudski have mentioned Walker. He is as an example plays in a robotic style. Why? Who has instructed him to play differently? The answer is Gareth Southgate.

What Spudski and myself  mention is teams, quite a few use the same in out and transition principles. Its being applied rigidly. You know where the ball will go frequently because the systems principles mean it has to.

Teams following similar, with similar abilities lead to robotic predictability.

England can't play fluid football because the Manager is not attempting to. Its a six and four. Four get to be a bit more fluid but six maintain the pre programmed coaches shape. 

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5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Biesla had less than two (?) years with Chile.

England's players do play in teams that do not all play the same.  Liverpool - Man City there are clear differences. There is talent in the squad to do differently. Radical? Certainly significantly different. I personally feel its Mr Southgate interpretation of modern football is too chess like and too conservative ... Its not a question of time, Mr Southgate creates the basic, players follow the basic .. I'm not singling Walker out as a world beater but he within the England team becomes less mobile .. This can be reversed by a coach desiring different.

I barely went into any depth at all, there was little analysis, and my posts were a polite response to your posts (angry?).  

Your perception were that my posts were angry , they weren’t . My point was that way too much was made of the warm up games considering we had a depleted squad.  As I posted above . 
If all the players were rested & available for those games , ie no European finals . Do you think southgate would of played the same team ?  

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3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Warm up games were wasted. Players played who are not in the squad. Patterns of play cannot be the same. Set plays were taken by players who are not in the squad, unless they are making things up as they go along ball rolling time is wasted in training. England a team noted for ability from set plays are well below the expected standard. 

I believe at the time with 5/6 injury concerns being played out, those players may have been required. We don't know how close the call was to dropping Hendo, Maguire maybe even Phillips and 3 fringe players coming in

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Dion Dublin made an excellent point on TV earlier by pointing out that Southgate’s first job was to get England out of the group and achieved that by not conceding which meant playing a largely defensive style throughout the group matches - very drab, bland and uninspiring to England fans but job done.

Now having reached the last 16 DD reckons we’ll see England playing with far more freedom and flair - let’s hope he’s right!

Unfortunately there is absolutely no evidence to suggest this is true. More hope than insight from Dublin I expect

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