England v. Germany Matchday Thread

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Redpool said:

take a good hard look?

Why? We were poor tonight and it was no "masterclass" by Southgate. Quite simply, Germany didn't show up. If they did, that games over by half time. Again, Southgate got his tactics wrong with an entire defensive setup. Quite interesting that when he brings on Grealish, the game opens up and his involvement leads to our two goals. 

Yes, Kane scored. But apart from that. What else did he contribute? Diddly squat

Two good goals scored. But that does not mask another poor and tactically inept performance.

Southgate needs to grow a pair and drop either Rice or Phillips (presumably Phillips) and put in a creative player such as Foden or Grealish. He cannot continue with such a negative and boring setup which will eventually catch us out. 

Laughable

 

[BanburyRed]

11 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Same overall result (4th) with only 1 win within 90 minutes in the entire tournament.

7 goals scored in total.

 

2018 beats that.

In your opinion.

(arguably England could get to this final and win without winning another game in 90mins or ET, just on pens, and all whilst not beating Scotland...potentially scoring 4 goals in 7 games)

[Offside]

I thought England played well - a very disciplined performance. 
Sterling had a very good game (apart from that pass that nearly led to an equaliser). Kane struggled again, but then got the goal and hopefully that will energise him for the next game(s). 

It was superb to see those goals go in with lots of fans there as well. 

[JamesBCFC]

Just now, BanburyRed said:

In your opinion.

(arguably England could get to this final and win without winning another game in 90mins or ET, just on pens, and all whilst not beating Scotland...potentially scoring 4 goals in 7 games)

And winning would be a better performance, seeing as we'd have won the thing.

[JamesBCFC]

1-1, good goal

 

[Gazred]

4 minutes ago, Redpool said:

take a good hard look?

Why? We were poor tonight and it was no "masterclass" by Southgate. Quite simply, Germany didn't show up. If they did, that games over by half time. Again, Southgate got his tactics wrong with an entire defensive setup. Quite interesting that when he brings on Grealish, the game opens up and his involvement leads to our two goals. 

Yes, Kane scored. But apart from that. What else did he contribute? Diddly squat

Two good goals scored. But that does not mask another poor and tactically inept performance.

Southgate needs to grow a pair and drop either Rice or Phillips (presumably Phillips) and put in a creative player such as Foden or Grealish. He cannot continue with such a negative and boring setup which will eventually catch us out. 

I don't know how many years you will have watched England for but if that performance and result doesn't satisfy then i really don't know what will.

Credit where it is due surely?

[The Coach]

1 minute ago, Gazred said:

I don't know how many years you will have watched England for but if that performance and result doesn't satisfy then i really don't know what will.

Credit where it is due surely?

Absolutely, I give credit. We won 2-0 and I'm happy. But by god, we can't continue to play for a 1-0. He has to drop at least Phillips or Rice next game and start Grealish. We need more bite and venom in the oppositions half. 

[Phileas Fogg]

Well done to Southgate. He'd have been slaughtered in the press if we'd lost but it was 100% the right gameplan.

Think we missed Mount today until Grealish came on. 

We look a very good side and apart from that Werner chance, Germany didn't really look that threatening.

Easier said then done but you'd have to fancy us to reach the final now.. 

[Gazred]

2 minutes ago, Redpool said:

Absolutely, I give credit. We won 2-0 and I'm happy. But by god, we can't continue to play for a 1-0. He has to drop at least Phillips or Rice next game and start Grealish. We need more bite and venom in the oppositions half. 

I felt the same when i saw the line up but if we start with Grealish and or Foden, who do we turn to if we need to chase the game.

That was acutally quite a German performance really. Very hard to win the tournament playing expansive, attacking stuff from the 1st min. A sound defence in a tournament will see you go further i feel.

[Taz]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Is he in the running for the Spurs job? Would’ve thought that would be a good move. 

I'd be amazed if not, pretty much come out on one of the broadcasts and admitted he'd like it - "Levy hasn't phoned me".

Nobody else seems to want the Spurs job do they? Half tempted to apply myself, I'd do it for a fraction of the cost, and I'm fairly local

[Silvio Dante]

I think we’d be blind, and naive, to say there weren’t question marks over a few after today. Remember the strength of a manager is changing things when they’re going well, not when they’re going badly.

Two players stick out for me as being largely ineffective - firstly Declan Rice. Not sure he’s been a great screen, and if you take the Muller chance, he’s caught up the pitch and doesn’t get back - if he’s in position, that ball isn’t through. He’s had four poor games on the bounce and I don’t think he justifies a place.

The second is Kane. I’m not naive enough to think he’ll be dropped, and I really hope the second half was him kicking into gear. But he’s had one good half in 8.

Pluses - undoubtedly Pickford, Maguire, Stones, Sterling, Phillips, Trippier, Grealish. But it’s not perfect. And I don’t think with Rice and Kane on current form we get anywhere near Italy or Belgium 

[BanburyRed]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Well done to Southgate. He'd have been slaughtered in the press if we'd lost but it was 100% the right gameplan.

Think we missed Mount today until Grealish came on. 

We look a very good side and apart from that Werner chance, Germany didn't really look that threatening.

Easier said then done but you'd have to fancy us to reach the final now.. 

Can't underestimate how significant the Muller miss was.....

[MelksRed]

3 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Can't underestimate how significant the Muller miss was.....

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said:

Sweden Ukraine drew the short straw playing at that shithole 

Only time Scotland will experience a quarter final 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Redpool said:

Absolutely, I give credit. We won 2-0 and I'm happy. But by god, we can't continue to play for a 1-0. He has to drop at least Phillips or Rice next game and start Grealish. We need more bite and venom in the oppositions half. 

I think you can play for a 1-0 versus a potentially better (debate?) opponent.  I said pre-game we don’t want to chase the game from 1-0 down, we will get picked off.  Tournament football is not always about being the best or expansive team, it’s about winning, especially in the knockout stages.

Against Sweden or Ukraine we might be able to play a bit differently, and maybe different players.  Pick the team to win the game / get through.

Re Luke Shaw, forget the assist and hockey-assist, he completely nullified one of Germany”s most dangerous players - Kimmich.  Sometimes stopping a specific opponent is key and although Shaw was safe in possession it was clear he was instructed to stay right side of Kimmich.  How many times did Kroos get on the ball in our third?  Rarely.  Two teams out there, have to respect that imho.

In rugby we’ve got used to the term “finishers” coming off the bench.  If that’s how we use the likes of Grealish in games like against Germany, then as fans we have to adjust our understanding.

I’d say Southgate got it pretty spot on tonight.  Rice was a bit blasé in his positioning early on, but from about 15 minutes in, you could see the plan taking shape.

I’ve become fed up of watching England fail in tournaments, losing to better organised team’s, less talented on paper.  Against Croatia and Germany I’ve witnessed a team playing to a plan…and win…with few scares.  I quite like it.  Yes, we were crap against Scotland.  We were decent against the Czechs for Tye first half before playing safe football second half.

[Kodjias Wrist]

5 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Can't underestimate how significant the Muller miss was.....

What about Kanes miss? 

[Phileas Fogg]

22 minutes ago, Redpool said:

take a good hard look?

Why? We were poor tonight and it was no "masterclass" by Southgate. Quite simply, Germany didn't show up. If they did, that games over by half time. Again, Southgate got his tactics wrong with an entire defensive setup. Quite interesting that when he brings on Grealish, the game opens up and his involvement leads to our two goals. 

Yes, Kane scored. But apart from that. What else did he contribute? Diddly squat

Two good goals scored. But that does not mask another poor and tactically inept performance.

Southgate needs to grow a pair and drop either Rice or Phillips (presumably Phillips) and put in a creative player such as Foden or Grealish. He cannot continue with such a negative and boring setup which will eventually catch us out. 

What a strange take. We did really well tonight. Germany only had 2 clear cut chances all game, tactically Southgate got it spot on and his selection (including subs) was vindicated. Just give him and the team a bit of credit. 

RE Rice/Phillips - in a 3-4-3, we needed both. I think we missed Mount tonight but it wouldn't have worked in that system even if he was completely fit. 

[Bristol Rob]

Guess that a few people are still following this thread...

Out of interest in what was a very average game, could you score each player out of ten. 

[Guest]

Just now, JonDolman said:

And the Werner chance in the first half would usually have been a goal. Fantastic save by Pickford

 

We could also talk about  Harry MGs free header at corner. As bad a miss as Muller imo 

[BCFC Rich]

11 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Well done to Southgate. He'd have been slaughtered in the press if we'd lost but it was 100% the right gameplan.

Think we missed Mount today until Grealish came on. 

We look a very good side and apart from that Werner chance, Germany didn't really look that threatening.

Easier said then done but you'd have to fancy us to reach the final now.. 

Agree, although I thought the Muller chance was a better one for Germany + I'm pretty sure (having just watched the highlights the Werner chance may have been ruled out for handball in the build up if he'd scored. 

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, BCFC Richard said:

Agree, although I thought the Muller chance was a better one for Germany + I'm pretty sure (having just watched the highlights the Werner chance may have been ruled out for handball in the build up if he'd scored. 

Yeah I'd forgot about that in fairness - I have had a couple 

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, GodEmperor Palpatine said:

Germany are not mugs though, at one stage they looked the only team who were going to win. Thankfully Southgate brought on Grealish.

 

56 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I thought my comments were correct. But then the game changed after Grealish came on

But the point being that with 5 subs Southgate has shown that you can utilise all aspects of the squad as the game progresses. All those crying out for a starting 11 including Foden, Mount, Grealish, Sancho and all the other excellent ball players, would have probably crying about the lack of support for the defence as Germany ripped through us again and again.

56 minutes ago, chinapig said:

As a result Germany completely restructured their football from top to bottom. Rafa Honigstein's book Das Reboot is very good on that.

In player and tactical development we have closed the gap to a great extent now. Capello reckoned English players could only play 4-4-2 as they didn't have the football brains to cope with anything more sophisticated. Not any more though.

I thought that was after the 1-5 win when even Emile Heskey scored?  

55 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

You quoted me, and slagged me off even though I defended the performance despite the criticism, odd.

 

Yes I missed you out as one of the exceptions, sorry mate.  

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Guess that a few people are still following this thread...

Out of interest in what was a very average game, could you score each player out of ten. 

You got an 8 for your assist.

[Iron Acton Red]

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think we’d be blind, and naive, to say there weren’t question marks over a few after today. Remember the strength of a manager is changing things when they’re going well, not when they’re going badly.

Two players stick out for me as being largely ineffective - firstly Declan Rice. Not sure he’s been a great screen, and if you take the Muller chance, he’s caught up the pitch and doesn’t get back - if he’s in position, that ball isn’t through. He’s had four poor games on the bounce and I don’t think he justifies a place.

The second is Kane. I’m not naive enough to think he’ll be dropped, and I really hope the second half was him kicking into gear. But he’s had one good half in 8.

Pluses - undoubtedly Pickford, Maguire, Stones, Sterling, Phillips, Trippier, Grealish. But it’s not perfect. And I don’t think with Rice and Kane on current form we get anywhere near Italy or Belgium 

I would like to see Mount and Foden back in starting 11 next game, this tournament is made for Someone like Foden if he can share his club form for country.

[bcfc01]

54 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

We just out-Germanned the Germans.

 

Aint that the truth.

[Port Said Red]

28 minutes ago, Redpool said:

take a good hard look?

Why? We were poor tonight and it was no "masterclass" by Southgate. Quite simply, Germany didn't show up. If they did, that games over by half time. Again, Southgate got his tactics wrong with an entire defensive setup. Quite interesting that when he brings on Grealish, the game opens up and his involvement leads to our two goals. 

Yes, Kane scored. But apart from that. What else did he contribute? Diddly squat

Two good goals scored. But that does not mask another poor and tactically inept performance.

Southgate needs to grow a pair and drop either Rice or Phillips (presumably Phillips) and put in a creative player such as Foden or Grealish. He cannot continue with such a negative and boring setup which will eventually catch us out. 

And some just double down.............. 

[DT The Optimist]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

And the Werner chance in the first half would usually have been a goal. Fantastic save by Pickford

 

Yep. It could easily have been different. So it’s wise not to have rose tinted glasses, but we do have really good depth. 
You could say we played more like Germany  than the Germans did .  
As for the future few rounds lot depends if we can get bit more bite in the final third.. Grealish simply makes things happen.. when he’s on the ball you just fancy something happening 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think we’d be blind, and naive, to say there weren’t question marks over a few after today. Remember the strength of a manager is changing things when they’re going well, not when they’re going badly.

Two players stick out for me as being largely ineffective - firstly Declan Rice. Not sure he’s been a great screen, and if you take the Muller chance, he’s caught up the pitch and doesn’t get back - if he’s in position, that ball isn’t through. He’s had four poor games on the bounce and I don’t think he justifies a place.

The second is Kane. I’m not naive enough to think he’ll be dropped, and I really hope the second half was him kicking into gear. But he’s had one good half in 8.

Pluses - undoubtedly Pickford, Maguire, Stones, Sterling, Phillips, Trippier, Grealish. But it’s not perfect. And I don’t think with Rice and Kane on current form we get anywhere near Italy or Belgium 

I think Rice shows naivety / inexperience in the DM role, it’s such a crucial position in international football.  I’d prefer Henderson in there, but not sure how that affects Phillips, as both probably prefer right side of a two.

Kane had a few more positive touches tonight, but he’s on his heels.

Several players did “their jobs” tonight.

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

Guess that a few people are still following this thread...

Out of interest in what was a very average game, could you score each player out of ten. 

Here goes, based on general performances rather than weighting on goals / assist “moments”, 6 is earning his corn:

Pickford 7

Trippier 7

Walker 8

Stones 6

Maguire 7

Shaw 6/7

Phillips 6

Rice 5/6

Sako 7

Kane 5

Sterling 7

xxxxxxxx

Grealish 7

Henderson n/a

 

 

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, FramptonRed said:

I would like to see Mount and Foden back in starting 11 next game, this tournament is made for Someone like Foden if he can share his club form for country.

I don’t know necessarily about that. I’d take Rice out, undoubtedly - but I think the 3-5-2 suits. I’d actually put Henderson in there and Grealish for Saka (think he’s been ok but overrated), but keep the same otherwise. Sancho first sub.

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I think Rice shows naivety / inexperience in the DM role, it’s such a crucial position in international football.  I’d prefer Henderson in there, but not sure how that affects Phillips, as both probably prefer right side of a two.

Kane had a few more positive touches tonight, but he’s on his heels.

Several players did “their jobs” tonight.

Here goes, based on general performances rather than weighting on goals / assist “moments”, 6 is earning his corn:

Pickford 7

Trippier 7

Walker 8

Stones 6

Maguire 7

Shaw 6/7

Phillips 6

Rice 5/6

Sako 7

Kane 5

Sterling 7

xxxxxxxx

Grealish 7

Henderson n/a

 

 

Great minds Dave - literally just posted I’d have Henderson in for Rice. I genuinely don’t see it with him - yet