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England v. Germany Matchday Thread


CyderInACan

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26 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Think I broadly agree with those - Personally I'd bump Maguire up to an 8 and probably Stones & Phillips to a 7. Think Sterling did lots of unsung work but perhaps not enough to bump to an 8. 

Thought Phillips did great, popped up in their box a few times some good passing, but more than that constantly broke up the Germans play - seemed to intercept the ball lots of times. Having said that I've said similar things about city players only to have @Davefevs pop up with the actual stats and show me I was clearly wrong! ?

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6 minutes ago, 054123 said:

This is where VAR doesn’t work.

Thats not a foul nor is it dangerous play. He gets to a loose ball ages before the the Ukrainian, who genuine runs into the Swede.

If you simply pause in the moment where they connect, then of course it looks bad.

Very much dangerous play.

There's a fraction of a second between him and the Ukrainian player getting to the ball. Not "ages" at all.

 

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37 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Southgate is in a results business and at the moment, and for the last 3 years he’s been getting good results. In 10 years time if we’ve won the Euros nobody is going to be looking back and saying, yeah we won but he should have played Grealish. 
England were largely ordinary against the Swiss and Scots in Euro 96 but nobody remembers that amongst all the nostalgia. 
We do have a lot of flair attacking players but we will never play with the freedom of a team like Brazil. 

Well, you say that but I remember people in the 70's still discussing whether Greaves should have played in the final in '66 instead of Hurst. :facepalm:

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8 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Very much dangerous play.

There's a fraction of a second between him and the Ukrainian player getting to the ball. Not "ages" at all.

 

Disagree completely.

Not a red card and the wrong decision.

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1 minute ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

Ummm not sure about that. The teams of 90, 96 and 98 were arguably better than anything we've produced since!

As someone else said earlier in the thread, in '90 we played poorly in most games.

In '96 didn't play that well in some games, but what they have that 2021 doesn't is nostalgia.

In 2018 we outperformed '98.

Simple as that.

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13 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Disagree completely.

Not a red card and the wrong decision.

The outcome was awful, but he has clearly gone for the ball and cleared it. It seems with elbows and tackles nowadays if you catch the player you run that risk.

Today Phillips ended up going over the ball and catching the player. Was given as a yellow, but seen them as reds. It’s thin lines at this level.

And it’s Ukraine.

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I said on page 1 of the thread I fancied us but I didn't expect it to feel so comfortable. Great performance and result.

A tick next to Southgate's name for me tonight. In WC2018 we got to the semi's but we only beat sides we should be beating. As soon as we played someone half decent we lost (Croatia and Belgium x2). Although this was probably the worst Germany squad in my lifetime and Low is not getting the most out of that group, we comfortably beat a good side with lots of experience and plenty of quality. A real boost that's given me more confidence. 

Being on the easier side of the draw on paper and effectively having home advantage, it really is our tournament to lose now. 

Great watch and well done to Southgate and the boys.

Was fantastic to hear Southgate get some redemption tonight. He said that Euro 96 still hurts but it was good to see him give those Euro 96 players and the rest of the nation an evening to remember, especially after a difficult 18 months or so.

Come on!

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Re red card….really tough call.  VAR makes it look worse, especially in slow motion, as does a planted leg. I can see arguments both ways.  Was it really reckless?  Did the Ukrainian cause it?

Im not a referee, so will bow to the experts.

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Re red card….really tough call.  VAR makes it look worse, especially in slow motion, as does a planted leg. I can see arguments both ways.  Was it really reckless?  Did the Ukrainian cause it?

Im not a referee, so will bow to the experts.

My view, is a red as it's endangering the opponent.

He gets there before the Ukrainian player but only just, and with studs showing at knee height. 

Will say I saw VAR first before going back to see it as others would have 'live' so that can be causing some bias on my view, but seeing it in real time didnt change my view.

It's pretty much a 50/50 ball, but to win it he had to go in in a reckless manner.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think Rice shows naivety / inexperience in the DM role, it’s such a crucial position in international football.  I’d prefer Henderson in there, but not sure how that affects Phillips, as both probably prefer right side of a two.

Kane had a few more positive touches tonight, but he’s on his heels.

Several players did “their jobs” tonight.

Here goes, based on general performances rather than weighting on goals / assist “moments”, 6 is earning his corn:

Pickford 7

Trippier 7

Walker 8

Stones 6

Maguire 7

Shaw 6/7

Phillips 6

Rice 5/6

Sako 7

Kane 5

Sterling 7

xxxxxxxx

Grealish 7

Henderson n/a

 

 

Have to disagree on a few of those Dave. 
Pickford needs to go up to 8. 2 excellent and crucial saves. Deffo deserves better than a 7. 
Stones and Maguire were very solid. If not both an 8, then deffo both a 7 (probs a 7.5 for each). 
Rice a 5 for me. Didn’t do his protection job very well and hardly saw the ball himself. 
Sako would also be a 5 too. Maybe a 6. Didn’t make any impact on the game at all. Probably was the one who shouldn’t have started. He was literally put in based off of 1 decent game against the Czechs. 
Sterling 8. Was the only constant threat and menace we had. 

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46 minutes ago, North London Red said:

I didn’t, but plenty did. Just saw this picture of the celebrations after the second goal. 
I’m just out of shot.
Easily the best atmosphere at Wembley since the rebuild. 

001727F4-FADE-413F-965F-52CB7ECFB275.jpeg

I love the scenes in the crowd in that photo. That’s what football’s all about. 

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54 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Re red card….really tough call.  VAR makes it look worse, especially in slow motion, as does a planted leg. I can see arguments both ways.  Was it really reckless?  Did the Ukrainian cause it?

Im not a referee, so will bow to the experts.

Difficult one, he cleanly won the ball and caught the player on the follow through, it looked bad in slo-mo, but there was no intent to do anything other than win the ball, not convinced that should be red.

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They reckon it's the hope that kills you.

My hopes tonight have been lifted by us playing 15% better than the Czech match, which in itself was a 15% improvement on the absolute nadir of us v Scotland.

There are lots of caveats to it, but I don't think England looked worse than the remaining "big three" - Belgium, Spain, Italy  - looked in their worst matches.

Ukraine look very beatable.

Dare we hope?

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Made a lot of people look silly tonight.

Maybe Southgate does know what he’s doing? Many people slated Sterling yet here he is 3 in 4 and our best player tonight?

Admittedly Grealish changed the game a bit, would he have had the same impact as a starter?

Wasn’t great but it was efficient and got the job done

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1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

As someone else said earlier in the thread, in '90 we played poorly in most games.

In '96 didn't play that well in some games, but what they have that 2021 doesn't is nostalgia.

In 2018 we outperformed '98.

Simple as that.

I got slaughtered on here for saying that the other week about 90/96, agree fully

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4 hours ago, IAmNick said:

So much for the group of death eh! All gone already.

Maybe they all thought they'd already done the hard work - quite happy with England unspectacularly getting through theirs.

Hm. Tbf Germany didnt look great in the group stage. Portugal, difficult to predict. France is the big shock. I think maybe they thought they already had the win against the Swiss. Thats what we have to be careful of in the next game. 

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Going to bed tonight very proud of our English players. 

The boys who were there in 2018, and the lads who have joined the squad since - England through and through. 

No mention of previous England sides but there just seems something different about this group, they genuinely love playing for the shirt.

Atmosphere at Wembley was simply incredible.

Onto the Quarters!

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Re red card….really tough call.  VAR makes it look worse, especially in slow motion, as does a planted leg. I can see arguments both ways.  Was it really reckless?  Did the Ukrainian cause it?

Im not a referee, so will bow to the experts.

Pat Nevin said it wasn’t a red.

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Been some absolutely glorious matches in this tournament not least the last four. Once that 2nd goal went in for England though this because easily the most enjoyable for me probably since we thrashed the Dutch in 96. 

McGuire and Pickford were immense. But all the players, in the end, contributed to the win; Shaw i thought was ok until he fed that ball through for Sterling. Many incidences where players were a little out of the game but in the end did their part; the collective team were magnificent. The defence solid as a rock yet again. 

And I think England will enjoy more playing Ukraine than Sweden. Both will be open and expansive.

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3 hours ago, Redpool said:

take a good hard look?

Why? We were poor tonight and it was no "masterclass" by Southgate. Quite simply, Germany didn't show up. If they did, that games over by half time. Again, Southgate got his tactics wrong with an entire defensive setup. Quite interesting that when he brings on Grealish, the game opens up and his involvement leads to our two goals. 

Yes, Kane scored. But apart from that. What else did he contribute? Diddly squat

Two good goals scored. But that does not mask another poor and tactically inept performance.

Southgate needs to grow a pair and drop either Rice or Phillips (presumably Phillips) and put in a creative player such as Foden or Grealish. He cannot continue with such a negative and boring setup which will eventually catch us out. 

Ignore 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Have to disagree on a few of those Dave. 
Pickford needs to go up to 8. 2 excellent and crucial saves. Deffo deserves better than a 7. 
Stones and Maguire were very solid. If not both an 8, then deffo both a 7 (probs a 7.5 for each). 
Rice a 5 for me. Didn’t do his protection job very well and hardly saw the ball himself. 
Sako would also be a 5 too. Maybe a 6. Didn’t make any impact on the game at all. Probably was the one who shouldn’t have started. He was literally put in based off of 1 decent game against the Czechs. 
Sterling 8. Was the only constant threat and menace we had. 

Pickford deserves a 9 just for screaming at Sterling when his poor pass led to the Muller chance.

Not quite sure what Rice offers  which sounds harsh considering but that is my opinion. Would prefer Hendo alongside Phillips. Of coursr Bellingham should be a shoe in long term.

Grealish to start next game. You need that trickery to balance Kane and Sterling.

 

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46 minutes ago, rednotblue said:

Grealish to start next game. You need that trickery to balance Kane and Sterling.

Don't start him...

Bring him on (again) with about 25 to go...

 It's going to be a warm evening in Rome on Saturday - his trickery,,energy & fresh legs will be vital as the game stretches & should put it to bed inside '90 - and will cause havoc should extra time be needed..

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