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England v. Germany Matchday Thread


CyderInACan

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I have a preference for a CM 3, believe Grealish a more natural fit in that position than say Mount, though he is flexible so can move forward and back a bit, perhaps can pull wider in phases.

Reconfigured, perhaps:

             Pickford

Walker Stones Maguire Shaw

         Phillips/Rice

Sancho Foden Grealish Sterling

             Kane

4-1-4-1 in some phases, that can drop into a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 with relative ease out of possession.

Looks fun but also looks like a football manager formation to me. I think in reality it probably wouldn’t work against better sides. We’d get overrun in midfield. 

I also think Mount will be one of the first names on the team sheet under Southgate for the foreseeable. I think it’s more plausible with Mount replacing one of Grealish/Foden and dropping a bit deeper.

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10 hours ago, Harry said:

I think some people are jumping too much on others stating their opinion that England play negatively. 
It’s a fact that we do. But that’s ok. As long as it works. 
It’s no problem to have the opinion that we are set up with our attacking wings having been clipped. It’s true. But that’s ok. I’m happy with that, as long as it gets the results. 

It’s a bit LJ-esque really. People say “he’s got the players, but we play so defensively”, whilst we were knocking out clean sheets and 3 points all over the place. Only when the results went against us does ‘everyone’ wake up to it. Some people (myself included) were calling out performances over results a long time before it started going wrong. Because ultimately, performances will end up determining your results. 
 

I agree with Cowshed in a lot of what he says. We are set up to not lose. Yes it’s negative. Yes it stifles any attacking flair. It’s banking on 3 forward players to create something themselves. He’s correct that this changed after Grealish arrived. Even though it was only 2 times, but his freedom of movement drew the opposition out of shape (hence Shaw getting an overlap for the 1st, possibly the only time in the game that we created the overload out wide). 
So that is all correct. 
 

But just because it’s true, it’s doesn’t mean that it’s a negative, slagging off, unfair and uncalled for opinion to say so. 
 

I was chuffed to bits that it worked as it did last night. But let’s not kid ourselves that for the most part we were in a ‘let’s not lose this’ set up. Which is fine. 
 

My main issue with the set up last night in particular was that we were not able to pick up the their AM’s. 
Neither Kroos or Goretka played as a DM, which meant they mostly occupied Rice & Phillips. This allowed Muller and Havertz to drop in behind our DM’s and they often had plenty of space when they did so. It was a worry for me, but we kinda got away with it, mainly because the back 3 defended excellently. 
It’s not negative to say this. I enjoyed the game - it was a real tactical chess match rather than end to end entertainment. And that’s fine. 

Given that Southgate has managed in 3 proper tournaments and been a player in 4 tournaments under 4 different managers I think he knows what he's doing. Personally I feel our attacking threat is overstated. We have a lot of 'could be good' players but really only 5 or 6 at their peak and one of them is hopelessly out of form (though maybe he'll wake up now he's scored).

To be successful we need to be difficult to score against. Negative is the wrong word as we clearly try to win. We're cautious though and don't want to over commit as it will cost us.

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18 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

.... it’s just what we do.  

If that Muller shot had gone in, all the self doubts would have come flooding back, the crowd would have been on edge and we’d have ended up beating ourselves.  We’ve seen it many a time in big games over the last 55 years and not just against Germany either.  

Historically, we’re far more likey to concede late to shoot ourselves in the foot, rather than get a late winner, so that Muller miss really was a crucial turning point in the game imho.  

I really think any composure and self-belief we had would have evaporated if he’d netted that one.

What previous teams and managers have done has no bearing on this team's results.

We've scored as many late goals as we've conceded I'd say? Tunisia, Scotland, Slovenia, 2 late goals to win against Croatia, Poland

We conceded late against Colombia and went on to win.

THere's little to suggest it's "what we do", that's just your perception

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15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Still work to do performance wise but result wise couldn't be better. That miss by Mueller from the backpass was a real heart in mouth moment- after Sterling's long spell without an England goal, this is his 2nd in 4 games which is good- and Kane finally up and running.

I'd still like to see more expansiveness, but so far so good...

He's got 15 in 21 since the WC. Far, far too much abuse get's thrown his way.

It's also 3 in 4 at the Euros after 8 in 7 in qualifying

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1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

He's got 15 in 21 since the WC. Far, far too much abuse get's thrown his way.

It's also 3 in 4 at the Euros after 8 in 7 in qualifying

 

Yup, Raheem has turned into one of those rare beasts whose international form is better than their club form.

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17 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Yup, Raheem has turned into one of those rare beasts whose international form is better than their club form.

Even still, I think it's 14 goals and 12 assists which isn't terrible but perhaps in a side like Man City's you'd expect more. They had a decent spread of goal scorers this year with Gundogan their top (Sterling 3rd) and he was joint second assists with Foden behind De Bruyne

 

 

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14 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Even still, I think it's 14 goals and 12 assists which isn't terrible but perhaps in a side like Man City's you'd expect more. They had a decent spread of goal scorers this year with Gundogan their top (Sterling 3rd) and he was joint second assists with Foden behind De Bruyne

 

 

 

I'm certainly not knocking the bloke. He is a very good footballer whether for club or country.

I'm saying he's kind of the reverse of his fellow Jamaican-born striker John Barnes, whose goals-per-game ratio was much higher for Watford and Liverpool than it was for England.

 

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21 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

Current team yes, but we’ve proved history can weigh heavily on teams, as Germany have been our bogey team for over half a century, so mindset must be a factor.

Superb result yesterday though and maybe we can look at the Germans in a different light now, after we got that monkey off our back.

It plays absolutely no bearing whatsoever. 

Its like suggesting that because the 2014/15 team pissed the league and had better fitness than other sides, we will piss the league this year.

 

Nothing links them whatsoever other than the badge on the shirt.

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1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

It plays absolutely no bearing whatsoever. 

Its like suggesting that because the 2014/15 team pissed the league and had better fitness than other sides, we will piss the league this year.

 

Nothing links them whatsoever other than the badge on the shirt.

.... in your view and you’re totally entitled to it, but I just don’t agree

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6 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Looks fun but also looks like a football manager formation to me. I think in reality it probably wouldn’t work against better sides. We’d get overrun in midfield. 

I also think Mount will be one of the first names on the team sheet under Southgate for the foreseeable. I think it’s more plausible with Mount replacing one of Grealish/Foden and dropping a bit deeper.

Mount deeper? Unsure about Mount in a central 3...I too have concerns about being overrun in the midfield but can we not impose ourselves somewhat?

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1 hour ago, 77 punk said:

just had a look at the weather forecast in rome for saturday, very hot day !

Very hot although by 9pm over there (8pm) the sun will have gone and will just be a humid evening. Pretty sure this won't be an issue as surely its colder in Ukraine than here.

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13 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Very hot although by 9pm over there (8pm) the sun will have gone and will just be a humid evening. Pretty sure this won't be an issue as surely its colder in Ukraine than here.

I read somewhere recently that the average day time temperature in Ukraine during July is around 25°C.

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On 30/06/2021 at 13:29, chinapig said:

Rivals certainky, though more from the Netherlands point of view I think, for obvious historical reasons. So there is mutual hostility between the fans.

The Netherlands still resent losing the 1974 World Cup final also! 

But in terms of competition for trophies it's Italy. Apparently Italians say that Germans love them but don't respect them while Germans say Italians respect them but don't love them. ?

In the earky 2000's, I used to live in the hotel that the Dutch team stayed in in Germany before the final and asked the owner about the stories about the parties and "good time girls", he stayed very quiet and removed the bronze statue of the Dutch team that they had presented to him shortly afterwards :laugh:

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On 30/06/2021 at 13:29, chinapig said:

Rivals certainky, though more from the Netherlands point of view I think, for obvious historical reasons. So there is mutual hostility between the fans.

The Netherlands still resent losing the 1974 World Cup final also! 

But in terms of competition for trophies it's Italy. Apparently Italians say that Germans love them but don't respect them while Germans say Italians respect them but don't love them. ?

In the earky 2000's, I used to live in the hotel that the Dutch team stayed in in Germany before the final and asked the owner about the stories about the parties and "good time girls", he stayed very quiet and removed the bronze statue of the Dutch team that they had presented to him shortly afterwards :laugh:

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18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Mount deeper? Unsure about Mount in a central 3...I too have concerns about being overrun in the midfield but can we not impose ourselves somewhat?

He’s naturally more of an all rounder so would find it easier to play more of a standard CM role than Grealish or Foden.

I agree and I think we could against weaker sides. Against the better sides I’m not sure it would work.

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