Mr Popodopolous Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) 'Trouble' for a club is all relative of course- there are many, many in worse positions but all the same! Looks like they're under some kind of La Liga imposed Transfer Embargo. High riding clubs don't usually get punished, will be interesting to see how it plays out... Don't get me wrong, certainly players who can be offloaded but if not, will La Liga make it stick...? Edited July 6, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 Is that 200,000 euros a week, month or year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Port Said Red said: Is that 200,000 euros a week, month or year? Week I think. Month or Year would be pretty straightforward for them to manage. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexukhc Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 They’ll find a way they always do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 More than a club…….can afford to pay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 42 minutes ago, steveybadger said: More than a club…….can afford to pay! Sure they can but not really the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 It appears to be 200,000,000 per year, not 200,000 per week according to various press reports. I tend to not believe most press reports, but their wage bill is madness and that doesn’t include messi re-signing either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveybadger Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 36 minutes ago, BigTone said: Sure they can but not really the point Absolutely - my comment was a play on words: ‘Mes que un club’. The ‘look at us aren’t we great and not the same as every other team’ rubbish that Barcelona spout just gets on my goat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 They'll do that easily when Messi signs for us I'd imagine. I presume he's included in the figures at the moment? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 No sympathy for either Barca or Real - years and years of spunking money left right and centre and lording it over everyone else in world football has finally caught up with them it would seem..! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 Messi was on 2 million a week, so even if he went it would only halve the deficit. They are rumoured to have offered him a new 10 year deal on half those wages (only 50 million a year - poor love don't know how he'll manage!) so then they'd still have a 150 shortfall to find. I hear they've been in touch with Mel Morris for help in finding a solution and he's recommended a chap who can give a decent valuation on the Nou Camp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Yaga Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 I wonder if the old dynamic of Spain having 2 big clubs has changed in the near future at least. Atletico with their new stadium and Real with their refurb must mean that both of their revenues will increase at a much higher rate than Barca's. With covid killing tourism and already high debt levels as well I suspect that La Liga are actually doing them a favour (without looking at the numbers). Got to admit I haven't heard of any of those players Barcelona sold so doubt they decreased the wage bill much. Not sure how much debt/wage bill they can service but it sounds like they are pushing their limits. It's possible that if inflation keeps going up then interest rates will need to be raised to control it, in that scenario I would be very interested to see how it would effect their numbers. I wouldn't plan on council tax in Catalonia going down anytime soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 3 hours ago, alexukhc said: They’ll find a way they always do Like Derby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 Carrying a 1.2 bn euros debt. The debt is estimated at 30% of the total value of the club. It's a house of cards that will eventually come crashing down unless urgent action is taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballwinningcentrehalf Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 I don't particularly have an issue with Barcelona/Real Madrid etc, but I'd love nothing more than to see these clubs suffer for a while until they are forced to cut their cloth and manage themselves in a better fashion. They've been allowed to get away with it for too long through bullying and coercion - and it sums up their collective arrogance and disdain for everyone else that they desperately wanted to push through the European Super League purely for money, rather than actually dealing with the financial issues that have been bubbling under the surface with reckless abandon for years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: 'Trouble' for a club is all relative of course- there are many, many in worse positions but all the same! Looks like they're under some kind of La Liga imposed Transfer Embargo. High riding clubs don't usually get punished, will be interesting to see how it plays out... Don't get me wrong, certainly players who can be offloaded but if not, will La Liga make it stick...? I'm struggling to play my microscopic violin for them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Port Said Red said: Is that 200,000 euros a week, month or year? Devil in the detail a bit there isn't it? If it just meant 200,000 euros a year that's really easily fixed. 5 hours ago, bris red said: No sympathy for either Barca or Real - years and years of spunking money left right and centre and lording it over everyone else in world football has finally caught up with them it would seem..! No particular sympathy here either, but Man City and PSG other good examples- big inflaters of the market, no real sanctions despite the suspect growth financing which fuelled their rise. 5 hours ago, downendcity said: Messi was on 2 million a week, so even if he went it would only halve the deficit. They are rumoured to have offered him a new 10 year deal on half those wages (only 50 million a year - poor love don't know how he'll manage!) so then they'd still have a 150 shortfall to find. I hear they've been in touch with Mel Morris for help in finding a solution and he's recommended a chap who can give a decent valuation on the Nou Camp! Read in some places that they weren't even able to renew his contract as it stands but time will tell. 5 hours ago, Baba Yaga said: I wonder if the old dynamic of Spain having 2 big clubs has changed in the near future at least. Atletico with their new stadium and Real with their refurb must mean that both of their revenues will increase at a much higher rate than Barca's. With covid killing tourism and already high debt levels as well I suspect that La Liga are actually doing them a favour (without looking at the numbers). Got to admit I haven't heard of any of those players Barcelona sold so doubt they decreased the wage bill much. Not sure how much debt/wage bill they can service but it sounds like they are pushing their limits. It's possible that if inflation keeps going up then interest rates will need to be raised to control it, in that scenario I would be very interested to see how it would effect their numbers. I wouldn't plan on council tax in Catalonia going down anytime soon. Does actually do them a favour somewhat, yeah- that's the point of the Regulation, it's not so much FFP as wage limits, when wage bills hit a certain level or % of turnover, La Liga financial controls can kick in- it's very much to help a club. 3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Carrying a 1.2 bn euros debt. The debt is estimated at 30% of the total value of the club. It's a house of cards that will eventually come crashing down unless urgent action is taken. The huge debt pile would of course be a concern, but the length of time until maturity etc could also be decisive- for example, Tottenham have a similar debt pile but a much longer period- SwissRamble did a list of debt profiles in Europe, might try and dig it out. If turnover bounces back up, they should perhaps look to accelerate repayment wherever possible- Barcelona that is and accept a lean period on the pitch. 1 hour ago, ballwinningcentrehalf said: I don't particularly have an issue with Barcelona/Real Madrid etc, but I'd love nothing more than to see these clubs suffer for a while until they are forced to cut their cloth and manage themselves in a better fashion. They've been allowed to get away with it for too long through bullying and coercion - and it sums up their collective arrogance and disdain for everyone else that they desperately wanted to push through the European Super League purely for money, rather than actually dealing with the financial issues that have been bubbling under the surface with reckless abandon for years. More than just those two. See also our own Big 6, see PSG I expect, see Juventus, though they weren't Super League Bayern are not popular in Germany. Plus think Real Madrid less badly placed than Barcelona. See certain clubs though on a far lower scale, at our level of recently of our level who believed they could do what they like. In short, big clubs=dominant players or those who act as dominant players and are the problem in many divisions. Edited July 6, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted July 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) Interestingly as I thought, their issue is more the salary than UEFA FFP, which is strange given Salary is the biggest cost but that could be a bit of what they need financially, some of these restrictions. Plus a little more. Firesale?? Or loan equivalent of at least. Edited July 6, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 Firpo has joined Leeds for £16m and rumour is that Man City will go for Griezmann if they can't get Kane. Pjanic has been linked with Man Utd and Spurs I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) Good thread- a week ago but their issues still clearly outstanding...possible they might not even be able to register Messi. This isn't due to UEFA's FFP regs but as mentioned in OP, La Liga's own salary Regulations. It does beg the question as I've not read it in depth if they literally reduced the allowable wage budget as a % based on Covid. Seems it's being slashed big time... Putting aside the fact quite a lot of people feel happy about this, the debate is an interesting one- should a League have the right to actively decide a Club's wage budget as La Liga appear to do? Probably not the same as a wage cap as a % but actively decide for each Club albeit based on financial data- it does differ to FFP ie Profit and Loss. Clearly in terms of a club being on the verge of full disaster, or refusal to comply yes but in general, should a League have this right more routinely? Clubs did vote for it of course... Bit more reading on it. https://newsletter.laliga.es/global-futbol/how-laliga-economic-controls-go-beyond-financial-fair-play/ https://newsletter.laliga.es/global-futbol/laliga-economic-control-creates-virtuous-cycle-for-clubs/ Edited August 2, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Good thread- a week ago but their issues still clearly outstanding...possible they might not even be able to register Messi. This isn't due to UEFA's FFP regs but as mentioned in OP, La Liga's own salary Regulations. It does beg the question as I've not read it in depth if they literally reduced the allowable wage budget as a % based on Covid. Seems it's being slashed big time... Putting aside the fact quite a lot of people feel happy about this, the debate is an interesting one- should a League have the right to actively decide a Club's wage budget as La Liga appear to do? Probably not the same as a wage cap as a % but actively decide for each Club albeit based on financial data- it does differ to FFP ie Profit and Loss. Clearly in terms of a club being on the verge of full disaster, or refusal to comply yes but in general, should a League have this right more routinely? Clubs did vote for it of course... Bit more reading on it. https://newsletter.laliga.es/global-futbol/how-laliga-economic-controls-go-beyond-financial-fair-play/ https://newsletter.laliga.es/global-futbol/laliga-economic-control-creates-virtuous-cycle-for-clubs/ The fact that clubs voted for it tells me they wanted a relatively easy way of being able to control costs without being blamed by their own fans. If the vast majority of clubs agree to the formula used then there is no argument with this system. If 40% disagree then you have an issue. Just look at the idiots on this board who demand that Lansdown splashes the cash without knowing a single thing about FFP. Anything that ultimately helps football clubs move forward on a more sustainable rather than irresponsible basis is good for the game imo and the sooner it happens in this country, in conjunction with parachute payments being abolished, the better (I think the impacts of Covid, at least, is helping clubs lower down the scale think on those lines). 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackers Corner Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 Must admit when I saw the title thread I was half expecting a new statement had been given out on the gas website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 On 06/07/2021 at 18:49, chinapig said: Firpo has joined Leeds for £16m and rumour is that Man City will go for Griezmann if they can't get Kane. Pjanic has been linked with Man Utd and Spurs I think. Not sold on him.....seems like a bit of a pjanic buy to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Numero Uno said: The fact that clubs voted for it tells me they wanted a relatively easy way of being able to control costs without being blamed by their own fans. If the vast majority of clubs agree to the formula used then there is no argument with this system. If 40% disagree then you have an issue. Just look at the idiots on this board who demand that Lansdown splashes the cash without knowing a single thing about FFP. Anything that ultimately helps football clubs move forward on a more sustainable rather than irresponsible basis is good for the game imo and the sooner it happens in this country, in conjunction with parachute payments being abolished, the better (I think the impacts of Covid, at least, is helping clubs lower down the scale think on those lines). Yeah, thought about it and ultimately agree. Clubs voting for it is a definite sign of responsibility and it should help to safeguard clubs. Kieran Maguire did a bit of a breakdown of how it might affect PL if applied here based on last few years financials, and it's not good news for Villa. £68m wage bill in PL, wouldn't have been able to register player to the tune of 40-50% of their wage bill! Agree on Parachute Payments too though under the current system there is an argument that they should be there but not through Profit and Loss, ie all but the amount equal to Solidarity Payments excluded from FFP. Which would mean no Wilson to Fulham as a prime example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Steve Watts said: Not sold on him.....seems like a bit of a pjanic buy to me.... He`ll go to Spurs. Pjanic on the streets of London. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) Their wage bill restrictions have been laid bare- only allowed to spend £85m on players wages this season it seems. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10041151/Barcelonas-salary-cap-limit-slashed-246MILLION-85m.html It'll do them good in the long run etc but it's an upper midtable/Europa League contending wage bill allowance for La Liga based on that.# The disparity to Real Madrid...oof. Sevilla's prudent management being rewarded and Villarreal too- Atletico probably somewhere in the middle in terms of debt reduction etc. Real Madrid's may well have actually risen owing to tough decisions and restraint in the market during the window. Wonder what to make of the League setting salary restrictions for clubs. Edited September 29, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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