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England vs Italy. Is it coming home?


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4 minutes ago, Coppello said:

Reread this several time and this post seems to be lacking any facts? Just a lot of odd opinions. 

That’s your opinion, what is a fact is his record in the three years as a premiership manager, go and check his awful stats better still ask Middlesbrough fans what they think of him of course it will only be their opinion 

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Said to my mate when we were watching that i would of subbed Saka straight off when it got to extra time for Rashford. He looked absolutely lost & petrified on the pitch when he was brought on, same as he did against Denmark, which even Southgate mentioned. Can’t blame the kid at all for that penalty miss, he should of been saved from himself by a more experienced player. Just knew it was missing as soon as he stepped up.

Thought we started off outstanding, especially Kane dropping off then passing, but the Italians figured it out quickly after that & there was only ever 1 deserving winner, just a shame the subs were so reactive instead of proactive.

Can’t criticise the team/managment too harshly as we got to a final, but can’t help but feel that game was for the taking & if the tactics were a bit more savvy we could of won it. Hey ho, on to the next i guess.

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13 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Yes they are but I think some modern players have forgotten the basics of the game. It a bit like a tennis player who can serve at 125mph sending on down at 80mph but with lots of spin. It will be hammered back a lot faster.

Also I cannot understand why South gate took Henderson off. He who takes penalties at Liverpool. Admittedly not all the time but at top level when he does.

Shame England lost. But my country, with only 3 million population, did OK again even if Bale did fluff a pen!

He also took off Rice who is the WHU penalty taker to bring on a player who doesn’t take the penalties for Man U and has actually got a very poor record at penalties, another Southgate masterstroke 

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1 minute ago, harrys said:

That’s your opinion, what is a fact is his record in the three years as a premiership manager, go and check his awful stats better still ask Middlesbrough fans what they think of him of course it will only be their opinion 

But that's completely irrelevant now isn't it because he was manager of Middlesbrough over a decade ago? You're completely ignoring the fact that people can improve.

Here are some facts for you: 

- Since 1966, England had only won six knockout games when he took over. He's now increased that to 11 meaning that 45% of England's knockout wins have been under him.

- Before this tournament, we had only ever won one knockout tournament at a European Championships. We won three in this tournament. 

- England had never won an opening Euros match. We beat Croatia (the finalists of the last World Cup) in the opening fixture. 

- We beat Germany in a knockout match for the first time since 1966. 

- Pickford broke Gordon Banks' record for the longest a keeper has gone without conceding in an England shirt. 

- We didn't concede until the semi finals.

- We got to our first major final since 1966 and were a few penalty kicks away from winning it. 

These are all of the facts that have come off the top of my head and there's more. Southgate has achieved more than all of the previous England managers since Alf Ramsey stepped down in 1974 yet you're criticising him because of his poor record at Middlesbrough? 

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43 minutes ago, Jcolebristol said:

Yeh they said Gareth named the order. So responsibility has to be with him.

i know you’re supposed to hit an unstoppable strike but first and foremost, you gotta hit the target. Something sancho & saka both did. Had the GK gone the other way, there wouldn’t have been any mention.

Rashfords was the most disappointing for me. He’d done the hard part!

Deffo Sterling should’ve been given one.

thats probably Gareth taking responsibility from the players

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3 minutes ago, harrys said:

Spot on, he’s wasted two glorious chances which we may never get again.

I agree our performance was disappointing after a great start last night,but to be fair,Southgate was also the creator of those chances.I agree that it feels like we wasted a golden opportunity last night though.

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41 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Don't want to start another thread, so

Jorginho's on Grealish.

Yellow, Red, or orange?

The tell tale thing was him dropping to the floor claiming to be injured too.

Probably not quite a red, but pretty close for me.

seen reds given for that, it was naughty

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36 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

It’s a English thing. Totally negative after going 1-0 up early on, we didn’t know how to manage it so we sat back and gave the initiative to Italy. 
 

We’ll never win anything with our mentality.

The irony is that Italy regularly used to play this way and if they'd scored first last night might have done so again. The difference being that Italy have a long experince of parking the bus.

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33 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

Brazil 2002. England score early and are pushed back after adopting a defensive shape. England lose 2-1.

Portugal 2004. England score early and are pushed back after adopting a defensive shape. England lose on penalties.

Portugal 2006. England play a low risk game against a side reduced my a number of suspensions. England lose on penalties.

Croatia 2018. England score early and are pushed back after surrendering control of the midfield. England lose in extra time.

Italy 2020. England score early and are pushed back after surrendering control of the midfield. England lose on penalties. 

In nearly every one of these games England score early (2nd minute last night, roughly the 6th minute against Croatia, 3rd minute against Portugal in 2004) and then sit back until the inevitable happens. Basically the reverse of what happened to Denmark in the semi final. 

That's the problem. I actually got my hopes up because of the way we dealt with Denmark in the second half of extra time. OK, the Danes were cooked by that time and Italy had barely got going last night, but the way we did it gave me confidence that we, finally, could play with a lead in a big game and at least not make the same mistakes as we have so often as you listed above. Not only that but we handled Germany with confidence as well.

So much more disappointed because of that. If we'd hung on grimly as Denmark had thrown the absolute kitchen sink at us, I probably would be a lot more pragmatic about the whole thing!

Edited by awbb
Typo and clarity.
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4 minutes ago, Coppello said:

But that's completely irrelevant now isn't it because he was manager of Middlesbrough over a decade ago? You're completely ignoring the fact that people can improve.

Here are some facts for you: 

- Since 1966, England had only won six knockout games when he took over. He's now increased that to 11 meaning that 45% of England's knockout wins have been under him.

- Before this tournament, we had only ever won one knockout tournament at a European Championships. We won three in this tournament. 

- England had never won an opening Euros match. We beat Croatia (the finalists of the last World Cup) in the opening fixture. 

- We beat Germany in a knockout match for the first time since 1966. 

- Pickford broke Gordon Banks' record for the longest a keeper has gone without conceding in an England shirt. 

- We didn't concede until the semi finals.

- We got to our first major final since 1966 and were a few penalty kicks away from winning it. 

These are all of the facts that have come off the top of my head and there's more. Southgate has achieved more than all of the previous England managers since Alf Ramsey stepped down in 1974 yet you're criticising him because of his poor record at Middlesbrough? 

Yes, we are travelling in the right direction and the key is to go one further at some point in the next few tournaments. As well as Pickford played, and he was great last night, has never let England down etc. an upgrade in goal would be ideal, I would like to see another centre half come through and we really need to sort central midfield out. Rice and Phillips worked to the point of reaching the final bit it's too conservative to go that one step further. Rashford is one who needs to start making a contribution on the football pitch, he totally wasted his opportunity this tournament. What he needs to realise is before you know it you are two tournaments up the line and lads are behind you after your place.

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3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Realistically, should you be learning your trade as the England manager? Definitely not. 

Whereas I don’t think he’s necessarily done a bad job, tactically I think he’s naive and we could and should have done better. 

Whereas I think sacking him would be a little unfair, we need to be in the best possible position for Qatar and I think to be in said best possible position, we need someone with experience… someone who has teams playing better than the sum of its parts. And for me, that’s not Gareth Southgate. 

I don't have an issue with it to be honest, this is genuinely an exciting project which has always targeted next years tournament for success and for these players to start to reach their potential, massive opportunities missed no doubt however at times in this tournament we have played some of the best football ive ever seen from an England team. I just love going into tournaments now with the belief that we can actually compete and do something special. 

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21 minutes ago, harrys said:

He also took off Rice who is the WHU penalty taker to bring on a player who doesn’t take the penalties for Man U and has actually got a very poor record at penalties, another Southgate masterstroke 

He took off Rice and replaced him with Henderson after 70mins.

120 mins he subbed off Henderson who has missed his last 2 penalties for England and brought on Rashford.

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12 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

thats probably Gareth taking responsibility from the players

It makes no sense though. Southgate of all people knows how devastating it can be to miss a penalty, so why put a 19 year old in that position. He said that his five penalty takers took the best penalties in training, but doing it in front of millions watching on TV is a totally different fish

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2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Yes, we are travelling in the right direction and the key is to go one further at some point in the next few tournaments. As well as Pickford played, and he was great last night, has never let England down etc. an upgrade in goal would be ideal, I would like to see another centre half come through and we really need to sort central midfield out. Rice and Phillips worked to the point of reaching the final bit it's too conservative to go that one step further. Rashford is one who needs to start making a contribution on the football pitch, he totally wasted his opportunity this tournament. What he needs to realise is before you know it you are two tournaments up the line and lads are behind you after your place.

Personally I feel that there are 2 or 3 ahead of him already but to be fair to Rashford he was given very little game time

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24 minutes ago, harrys said:

He also took off Rice who is the WHU penalty taker to bring on a player who doesn’t take the penalties for Man U and has actually got a very poor record at penalties, another Southgate masterstroke 

If you think he should not make a sub he wants to make 50 minutes before penalties in case he needs to take one then you are extremely wrong. 

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2 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

He took off Rice and replaced him with Henderson after 70mins.

120 mins he subbed off Henderson who has missed his last 2 penalties for England and brought on Rashford.

Apologies, I was well drunk by then, don’t think Rashford’s penalty record is great is it?

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59 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Don't want to start another thread, so

Jorginho's on Grealish.

Yellow, Red, or orange?

The tell tale thing was him dropping to the floor claiming to be injured too.

Probably not quite a red, but pretty close for me.

I was quite clearly a red based on the 2021 interpretation of the rules

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2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

It makes no sense though. Southgate of all people knows how devastating it can be to miss a penalty, so why put a 19 year old in that position. He said that his five penalty takers took the best penalties in training, but doing it in front of millions watching on TV is a totally different fish

It was so poor, that decision, and when Southgate reflects on it he will realise that. Unfortunately it's not Gareth getting the racist abuse on social media and Saka may take a few months to get over this (if he can get over it a lot quicker then fair play to the kid for having such strength of character). It's not even that Saka took a pen, if he showed up well in training at least give him the first or second one not the bloody fifth one.

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4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It was so poor, that decision, and when Southgate reflects on it he will realise that. Unfortunately it's not Gareth getting the racist abuse on social media and Saka may take a few months to get over this (if he can get over it a lot quicker then fair play to the kid for having such strength of character). It's not even that Saka took a pen, if he showed up well in training at least give him the first or second one not the bloody fifth one.

But who knows whether the fifth penalty will be important (or if it will even be necessary).  You have to put your best penalty taker first, and so on.

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we have had a good tournament and the young lads will learn from this.one thing i will say is you can not right off a 34 and 36 year old centre half as chiellini and bonucci bloody outstanding, both no how to manage a game and are very clever in the dark arts of the game.

when chiellini new he was beat by saka he had no hesitation to grab him by the shirt and rip him to the ground some might call it cheating some may call it first class defending.this is something i hope np will bring in at city as we have been to soft over the years

on penalty's no ones to blame i scored goals for fun over the years but by god was i a shite penalty take always change my mind in the run up and missed 13 in my career 

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2 hours ago, BigTone said:

Italy certainly bossed the 2nd half. All over us like a rash.

Still can't understand our complete change of tactics second half, did they really think we would keep a world class team like Italy from scoring when England just sat back and let them have the ball, baffling and frustrating and the less said about 3 of the penalties the better, don't know about you but to me there was an inevitability once it went to penalties  surely they could have found 3 more players that picked a side and hit it hard and low.

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2 minutes ago, big dosser said:

we have had a good tournament and the young lads will learn from this.one thing i will say is you can not right off a 34 and 36 year old centre half as chiellini and bonucci bloody outstanding, both no how to manage a game and are very clever in the dark arts of the game.

when chiellini new he was beat by saka he had no hesitation to grab him by the shirt and rip him to the ground some might call it cheating some may call it first class defending.this is something i hope np will bring in at city as we have been to soft over the years

on penalty's no ones to blame i scored goals for fun over the years but by god was i a shite penalty take always change my mind in the run up and missed 13 in my career 

I reckon you were just unlucky.... 

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6 minutes ago, big dosser said:

we have had a good tournament and the young lads will learn from this.one thing i will say is you can not right off a 34 and 36 year old centre half as chiellini and bonucci bloody outstanding, both no how to manage a game and are very clever in the dark arts of the game.

when chiellini new he was beat by saka he had no hesitation to grab him by the shirt and rip him to the ground some might call it cheating some may call it first class defending.this is something i hope np will bring in at city as we have been to soft over the years

on penalty's no ones to blame i scored goals for fun over the years but by god was i a shite penalty take always change my mind in the run up and missed 13 in my career 

And the team still chose you to take them?

Unless of course you were captain!

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3 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

But who knows whether the fifth penalty will be important (or if it will even be necessary).  You have to put your best penalty taker first, and so on.

Common sense says you don't give the fifth penalty to such an inexperienced kid. It's not even a hindsight thing either, it was literally called out on here AT THE TIME. Personally, if he looked the dogs bollocks in training on pens, I would have stuck him up second. Fifth was just too much for him, the predictions were proven to be correct, he's 19 years of age, if we spent a few hours in his company I'm sure we would find him to be a lovely lad, a credit to his parents etc. but we would most likely also realise that he's not even grown up properly yet.

Even at international level there is a responsibility on the Manager to look after players of that age. Saka was clearly devastated, he's received racist abuse (not Southgate's fault obviously), he thinks he's lost England the Euro's, he probably won't get a good night's sleep for a fortnight now and then he's got to try and chill out for a couple of weeks before preparing for another season of Premiership football. Very unnecessarily lobbed under the bus by Southgate imo who does deserve criticism for that.

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When the squad was first announced, I was amazed Ward-Prowse was left out, especially with the bigger squads allowed for this tournament. He takes the best set piece in England IMO, and who better to bring off the bench specifically to take a pen? 

Last night feels like a massive opportunity slipped through our hands. Gutted for Rashford, Sancho and Saka. They don’t deserve the dog’s abuse they’re getting. 

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