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  • The title was changed to green football shirts to be banned?

Oh my god please. They are atrocious for those of us with red/green colourblindness. In the game v Celtic I could only really distinguish the teams by our white shorts. Everything else, when moving at speed and on TV is tough* to distinguish. Same as the annual Wales v Ireland rugby match.

*not impossible, but tough to the point that it makes it unpleasant to watch.

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4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Oh my god please. They are atrocious for those of us with red/green colourblindness. In the game v Celtic I could only really distinguish the teams by our white shorts. Everything else, when moving at speed and on TV is tough* to distinguish. Same as the annual Wales v Ireland rugby match.

*not impossible, but tough to the point that it makes it unpleasant to watch.

Genuine question and 100% not a piss take....but how do you cope with the City kit and the pitch?

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27 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Genuine question and 100% not a piss take....but how do you cope with the City kit and the pitch?

I’m colour blind and red/green and blue/purple are the biggest clash.  I’m 42 and I only found out last year that Dairy Milk wrappers are purple and not dark blue, true story!

re: City players wearing red on green pitch it has no impact for me, I guess I know City play in red so not a problem!  

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1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

Genuine question and 100% not a piss take....but how do you cope with the City kit and the pitch?

Haha, a fair question that I will try to explain.

Ok, so being "colourblind" doesn't mean I do not see colour. Basically I just see red and green less intensely than most. In reality this affects my daily life very little, however there are some circumstances where it does cause issues.

I find that when multiple shades of red/green/brown (or blue/purple or white/pink) are present and 'mixed' together - I have trouble distinguishing them.

So, where it is just City in red versus a green pitch, it's basically fine. That's one strong clear shade of red on a strong, clear green background. I probably don't see the green as brightly as you, but I can see the players just fine. It's when a third option is introduced that the struggle begins for me, especially if, as on Wednesday, that third option is a darker green like Celtic wore. Another example is a snooker table - apparently there are green and brown balls on that thing but all I've ever seen is a bunch of reds at one end, and then two others next to the yellow ball in baulk.

As @Tinmans Love Child says, actually I more often have issues seeing purple. I've had numerous pieces of clothing that I've thought are blue, only to be told years later they are purple. Our purple kit really isn't that offensively bright to me either. It's all because I don't perceive the red element of the purple very well, and so it comes across as a muted blue.

I absolutely refuse to believe in made up colours like 'turquoise', 'magenta' and 'cyan'.

Caveat all the above with the fact that colourblindness is very much a spectral issue (pardon the pun) and everyone that 'suffers' from it will be affected in a slightly different way, and will have a slightly different experience.

Edited by ExiledAjax
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21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Haha, a fair question that I will try to explain.

Ok, so being "colourblind" doesn't mean I do not see colour. Basically I just see red and green less intensely than most. In reality this affects my daily life very little, however there are some circumstances where it does cause issues.

I find that when multiple shades of red/green/brown (or blue/purple or white/pink) are present and 'mixed' together - I have trouble distinguishing them.

So, where it is just City in red versus a green pitch, it's basically fine. That's one strong clear shade of red on a strong, clear green background. I probably don't see the green as brightly as you, but I can see the players just fine. It's when a third option is introduced that the struggle begins for me, especially if, as on Wednesday, that third option is a darker green like Celtic wore. Another example is a snooker table - apparently there are green and brown balls on that thing but all I've ever seen is a bunch of reds at one end, and then two others next to the yellow ball in baulk.

As @Tinmans Love Child says, actually I more often have issues seeing purple. I've had numerous pieces of clothing that I've thought are blue, only to be told years later they are purple. Our purple kit really isn't that offensively bright to me either. It's all because I don't perceive the red element of the purple very well, and so it comes across as a muted blue.

I absolutely refuse to believe in made up colours like 'turquoise', 'magenta' and 'cyan'.

Caveat all the above with the fact that colourblindness is very much a spectral issue (pardon the pun) and everyone that 'suffers' from it will be affected in a slightly different way, and will have a slightly different experience.

This was really insightful, thanks for sharing. 

(pardon another pun!).  

 

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5 minutes ago, BCFCinNW6 said:

This was really insightful, thanks for sharing. 

(pardon another pun!).  

No worries. It's such a weird "disability" to have as for 90% of those that have it, 90% of the time it's just not an issue.

Buy then, every now and then, it can be really embarrassing and cause serious issues. 

One other 'everyday' example. You know the little LED lights everything has nowadays, the ones that tell you when something is charging or is charged? Well, apparently they are often orange or red if charging, and change colour when the device is charged. Do they heck! I basically just have to guess, or just leave stuff for ages. 

Same on my internet router. If the internet's not working then my wife has to sort it out as I've no idea which light is flashing red, orange, amber etc. No idea at all.

But anyway. Down with green football kits!

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35 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

 

Same on my internet router. If the internet's not working then my wife has to sort it out as I've no idea which light is flashing red, orange, amber etc. No idea at all.

But anyway. Down with green football kits!

Yes,I can relate to that, to me they are just either on or they're off , what the **** the colours are.............:dunno:

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2 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Yes,I can relate to that, to me they are just either on or they're off , what the **** the colours are.............:dunno:

I only learned that car brake lights and indicators are different colours when I did my theory test at 17. Genuinely still don't really see it, I only know they're different because I've been told so.

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1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I’m colour blind and red/green and blue/purple are the biggest clash.  I’m 42 and I only found out last year that Dairy Milk wrappers are purple and not dark blue, true story!

re: City players wearing red on green pitch it has no impact for me, I guess I know City play in red so not a problem!  

**** me. I’ve just learnt that today. Purple is my nemesis. Either blue or pink to me. Quite often I guess it’s purple when I can’t decide which colour it is, but Dairy Milk being purple never occurred to me.

My worst error was buying ink cartridges for school. We had to have blue or black ink. There was a great offer on “Peacock Blue” so I bought a job lot and was pleased as punch until the **** of an English teacher refused to mark my work as apparently it was turquoise.

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When I got married many moons ago,I wore a suit for the first and last time in my life.I wanted to get a blue suit and the future Mrs Slacker helped me choose one.It was many years later when she admitted she helped me choose a suit in her preferred colour of green and just let me believe it was blue.

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55 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I only learned that car brake lights and indicators are different colours when I did my theory test at 17. Genuinely still don't really see it, I only know they're different because I've been told so.

Do you drive a BMW?

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Really interesting, obviously I knew colour blindness existed but never had any experience at all. I never knew it was so varied, I thought people either saw certain colours or they didn’t. I guess it is similar to that white/blue/gold dress thing that swept the Internet a few years ago, everyone is different.

i certainly didn’t realise it affected so many people. More males than females if I remember correctly?

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I’m colour blind and, like others have said, I don’t really notice it most of the time. In football, though, if City are playing a team in a dark kit I often rely on our white shorts to be able to distinguish between the teams, particularly in evening games. So I’ve always hated it when City wear all red at home.

Similarly, when I play FIFA in City’s all black away kit against a team in all red I find it quite difficult to tell the difference. 

I’m glad I’m not the only one!

 

 

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24 minutes ago, RedM said:

More males than females if I remember correctly?

Vastly more. IIRC it is something in the region of 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women that have some measurable level of red-green colourblindness. There are a couple of other, more niche variants of colourblindness, and of course many millions go through life without any formal diagnoses, and their only experience of it amounts to a couple of strange anecdotal stories where they got a colour wrong for whatever reason.

When you look at that kind of prevalence, and then look at a male-dominated group of people like a football crowd, then you start to see why I think organisations need to take it a little more seriously. You're probably talking about something like 1,500-2,000 people in an average AG crowd who have some level of the condition. It's not negligible.

I am relatively mild - maybe a 6 out of 10 for severity. I also was lucky and got diagnosed very early in life as my parents are optometrists and so spotted it very early on. Most kids get diagnosed later when it inevitably becomes an issue at school.

1 minute ago, Offside said:

I’m colour blind and, like others have said, I don’t really notice it most of the time. In football, though, if City are playing a team in a dark kit I often rely on our white shorts to be able to distinguish between the teams, particularly in evening games. So I’ve always hated it when City wear all red at home.

Similarly, when I play FIFA in City’s all black away kit against a team in all red I find it quite difficult to tell the difference. 

I’m glad I’m not the only one!

Far from it! the red/black thing is really tricky. Don't know about you but when someone edits a word doc and uses red to show their changes...yeh that can be tricky. I always edit and mark up docs using a bright blue.

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3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Vastly more. IIRC it is something in the region of 1 in 12 men and 1 in 200 women that have some measurable level of red-green colourblindness. There are a couple of other, more niche variants of colourblindness, and of course many millions go through life without any formal diagnoses, and their only experience of it amounts to a couple of strange anecdotal stories where they got a colour wrong for whatever reason.

When you look at that kind of prevalence, and then look at a male-dominated group of people like a football crowd, then you start to see why I think organisations need to take it a little more seriously. You're probably talking about something like 1,500-2,000 people in an average AG crowd who have some level of the condition. It's not negligible.

I am relatively mild - maybe a 6 out of 10 for severity. I also was lucky and got diagnosed very early in life as my parents are optometrists and so spotted it very early on. Most kids get diagnosed later when it inevitably becomes an issue at school.

Far from it! the red/black thing is really tricky. Don't know about you but when someone edits a word doc and uses red to show their changes...yeh that can be tricky. I always edit and mark up docs using a bright blue.

Yep, me too, I find that really difficult on Word!

I remember being given those colour blindness tests as a kid (the ones with different colour dots and a number) and I thought it was a conspiracy cos all I saw was dots. 

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Just been googling and there's actually already some pretty comprehensive FA/FIFA guidance for clubs and associations regarding colourblindness.

https://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness-and-sport/guidance-documents/

This document is lengthy, but provides (apparently, I can't tell really) some examples of how the world looks to those of us with colourblindness. It also runs through some of the most common kit issues and issues around signage at stadia.

https://www.colourblindawareness.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/FA_COLOUR_BLINDNESS_IN_FOOTBALL_ENG.pdf

People may be interested in reading if they've already watched some paint dry tonight.

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48 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

Far from it! the red/black thing is really tricky. Don't know about you but when someone edits a word doc and uses red to show their changes...yeh that can be tricky. I always edit and mark up docs using a bright blue.

With you on that. I do bright blue or bright green depending on how cantankerous the receiver is.

Also got into the habit of sending back any amendments allegedly in red and ask for it to be changed. I work in an industry where they are very quick to tell me jobs I cannot do because of colourblindness so I make a point of acknowledging my inability to perceive certain colours.

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8 minutes ago, GreedyHarry said:

With you on that. I do bright blue or bright green depending on how cantankerous the receiver is.

Also got into the habit of sending back any amendments allegedly in red and ask for it to be changed. I work in an industry where they are very quick to tell me jobs I cannot do because of colourblindness so I make a point of acknowledging my inability to perceive certain colours.

So I am a lawyer. I trained in 2013 and did part of my training in the property law department. Property lawyers have a very particular way that they colour in the borders of a map to show how a bit of land is parcelled up. IIRC it goes piece 1 = red, piece 2 = green, piece 3 = pink, piece 4 = brown. It honestly could not be worse hierarchy for those of us with colourblindness. As a trainee I was asked to colour code a plan. I asked, out of interest, if the colour hierarchy was a legal thing, and was told no, it was just custom. Cool thought I, and off I trotted. I grabbed my red, blue, yellow, and black pens and proceeded to use my own, brand new colourblind friendly hierarchy to colour code the plan.

Upon turning it...honestly I've rarely received a bigger bollocking at work. The partner was incredulous. "But you said it was just customary" I said innocently...well it turns out that 300 years of property law 'custom' wasn't about to be overturned by one smart arsed trainee. I had to re-do it, torturously trying to figure out if I was using red/pink/green/brown correctly.

And I swore to never, ever, do property law again.

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3 hours ago, Offside said:

I’m colour blind and, like others have said, I don’t really notice it most of the time. In football, though, if City are playing a team in a dark kit I often rely on our white shorts to be able to distinguish between the teams, particularly in evening games. So I’ve always hated it when City wear all red at home.

Similarly, when I play FIFA in City’s all black away kit against a team in all red I find it quite difficult to tell the difference. 

I’m glad I’m not the only one!

 

 

When I’ve been looking in the settings of fifa (may have been another EA game) I thought in the accessibility settings you can now put in about colour blindness to change the colours in the game slightly. I may be wrong there.

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5 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I only learned that car brake lights and indicators are different colours when I did my theory test at 17. Genuinely still don't really see it, I only know they're different because I've been told so.

On a lot of American made cars the brake light is the indicator! So they are red.

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I, like a few on this thread have to make do with colourblindness (interesting to read your experiences, it's frustrating how difficult some things are - especially when you have no experience of them). I shared my experiences with the team at work and did a little bit of research but am absolutely no expert in this. Aparently there are rods and cones that work together in your eyes so regular eyesight can detect 1 million colours. If one of the cones is not quite aligned perfectly you can loose tens of thousands of shades for the smallest defection.

Football has never really been difficult for me in person (except the occasional confusing orange shirts with the yellow bibs used in 5-a-side) until really recently. In the space of 2 weeks, the one group I played with started using two lots of bibs that I can't even describe the colours of. Another game, one I organise, someone brought a ball I couldn't distinguish from the pitch. I felt like a dick to be honest - I've profusely apologised to the bloke with the ball and offered to get him a white ball out of the kitty. It was good of him to be on hand for if I'm late (fortunately if I'm not there, the problem's gone away!). I've never really struggled when at a game but can't remember any tricky colour clashes involving city, and even watching teams in the flesh, where seats are often the same colour as the home shirts, it's never been an issue.

Watching on tv is a different matter though - there have been some classics in the past with Brighton in green and Southampton in red being one of the high profile recent ones. Did any of the colourblind city followers watch our game at home to Birmingham or Milwall last season? The red/green clash was too much for me - I had to take a break from watching. Watching City takes a painful concentration at the best of times, this was too much!

Generally speaking, it's not that much of a problem these days, because the colours or shades are accessible on a computer (with an RGB value) and lights tend to have a place or do something like flash - but the whole red light/orange light thing can be hard (I tend to go by whether the speaker in question is chucking out sound or not, it's not sophisticated or sustainable). At least playing fifa I'll scroll through kits if I have to (or can).

My partner is fascinated by all the crazy stuff I can't see properly, there's an app that shows people with normal colour vision, what it's like. Apparently it's amazing. Just for good measure I didn't know the dairy milk thing either, although it was going through 30 years of my life thinking peanut butter was green that tips people over the edge.

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There are quite a few Italian sides wearing green since they were formed. They are being told to throw away their history.

No doubt if its forced without a revolt, tough call in Italy, other countries will likely follow suit 

Unnecessary tinkering.

Then they will do more studies and say Purple is not allowed.

Being colour blind is not nice, clearly, but is this the right way ?

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1 hour ago, solihull cider red said:

I, like a few on this thread have to make do with colourblindness (interesting to read your experiences, it's frustrating how difficult some things are - especially when you have no experience of them). I shared my experiences with the team at work and did a little bit of research but am absolutely no expert in this. Aparently there are rods and cones that work together in your eyes so regular eyesight can detect 1 million colours. If one of the cones is not quite aligned perfectly you can loose tens of thousands of shades for the smallest defection.

Football has never really been difficult for me in person (except the occasional confusing orange shirts with the yellow bibs used in 5-a-side) until really recently. In the space of 2 weeks, the one group I played with started using two lots of bibs that I can't even describe the colours of. Another game, one I organise, someone brought a ball I couldn't distinguish from the pitch. I felt like a dick to be honest - I've profusely apologised to the bloke with the ball and offered to get him a white ball out of the kitty. It was good of him to be on hand for if I'm late (fortunately if I'm not there, the problem's gone away!). I've never really struggled when at a game but can't remember any tricky colour clashes involving city, and even watching teams in the flesh, where seats are often the same colour as the home shirts, it's never been an issue.

Watching on tv is a different matter though - there have been some classics in the past with Brighton in green and Southampton in red being one of the high profile recent ones. Did any of the colourblind city followers watch our game at home to Birmingham or Milwall last season? The red/green clash was too much for me - I had to take a break from watching. Watching City takes a painful concentration at the best of times, this was too much!

Generally speaking, it's not that much of a problem these days, because the colours or shades are accessible on a computer (with an RGB value) and lights tend to have a place or do something like flash - but the whole red light/orange light thing can be hard (I tend to go by whether the speaker in question is chucking out sound or not, it's not sophisticated or sustainable). At least playing fifa I'll scroll through kits if I have to (or can).

My partner is fascinated by all the crazy stuff I can't see properly, there's an app that shows people with normal colour vision, what it's like. Apparently it's amazing. Just for good measure I didn't know the dairy milk thing either, although it was going through 30 years of my life thinking peanut butter was green that tips people over the edge.

It is a fasinating subject. When I was an apprentice Electrician 0ne week in four was spend at South Bristol Technical College. One of the other guys in our class was colour blind. His was with red and green. At that time red was the live active conductor and green was the earth conductor. We all chipped in and helped him where we could. During the end of our four year apprenticeship the green earth conductor was gradually phased out and it changed to green and yellow. This helped him and many other electricians. He still works as a sparky in Bristol today.

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1 hour ago, havanatopia said:

There are quite a few Italian sides wearing green since they were formed. They are being told to throw away their history.

No doubt if its forced without a revolt, tough call in Italy, other countries will likely follow suit 

Unnecessary tinkering.

Then they will do more studies and say Purple is not allowed.

Being colour blind is not nice, clearly, but is this the right way ?

Green shirts aren't the problem in my experience, but there may be people that can't see the green on green & wouldn't be surprised if people were having issues (I do wonder if what it's actually causing problems with is the technology that enables them to sell different adverts in different countries on the pitchside advertising). Back in the black and white TV days, weren't there generally accepted colours etc that couldn't be used?

I would advocate guidance for clubs (& referees) that preferred stripes or distinctly different colours rather than outright banning colours.

5 minutes ago, City oz said:

It is a fasinating subject. When I was an apprentice Electrician 0ne week in four was spend at South Bristol Technical College. One of the other guys in our class was colour blind. His was with red and green. At that time red was the live active conductor and green was the earth conductor. We all chipped in and helped him where we could. During the end of our four year apprenticeship the green earth conductor was gradually phased out and it changed to green and yellow. This helped him and many other electricians. He still works as a sparky in Bristol today.

Tried that one with a few electrical diy jobs round the house - partner's father pointed out the new wires and suggested I might be able to give it a go in future now that we've seen the newer wires. I've realised that was just an excuse for me & I'm not particularly confident with electrical odd jobs.

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