Rudolf Hucker Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Rocky said: “The jury is to be sworn at in the trial of Bristol Rovers manager Joey Barton ...” is more likely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Scrumpylegs said: Barton won’t get a fine. Not a chance. Best case scenario is a suspended prison sentence and he loses all ‘credit’ for taking this to trial. Offence is made more serious by previous violent offences. Also, the fact the the assault has happened in the workplace won’t play well!! I found it odd that he pleaded not guilty back in 2019. That's going to go against him in sentencing if he is found guilty. Edit to clarify when he entered that plea. Edited June 7, 2021 by Eddie Hitler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 4 hours ago, TomF said: Max 5 years but could be anything from that to a community service or just a fine. Given they postponed the trial for a year I get the felling if found guilty he'll get community service For a category three offence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: For a category three offence? He has a record of violent crime. It's not like it's a one off out of character event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 4 hours ago, TomF said: Max 5 years but could be anything from that to a community service or just a fine. Given they postponed the trial for a year I get the felling if found guilty he'll get community service Whilst i agree @TomF that the max sentence for a S47 ABH is up to 5 years; you need to realise that Barton has already had custodial sentences for like offences. With that in mind, the non-custodial options open to the sentencing judge will be somewhat limited. Any sentence under 2 years can be suspended, and that is of course what his defence counsel would push for in the event of a jury verdict. The amount of bad character against him, will play a big part; if it is his case that it was self defence. Jury selection will be interesting. No doubt, anybody who has heard of barton will be excluded via a questionaire completed at the start of the selection process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 14 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: For a category three offence? I doubt it's a category 3 offence. More like a 2, down to the level of injury. Even within thise categories you have A,B & C levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big dosser Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 judge you will be on a tag for one year and a curfew of being indoors by 6pm the only time you can have a extension to your curfew hours is a cold wet snowy November night when you play Carlisle away you little shite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 26 minutes ago, Rocky said: Is that the offence - pushing (sorry not followed the case)?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, lenred said: Is that the offence - pushing (sorry not followed the case)?! It doesn't matter how the injuries were caused; the police officer who pushed Ian Tomlinson over leading to his death was charged with manslaughter rather than with, and I know you're not trying to downplay what happened, "pushing". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: It doesn't matter how the injuries were caused; the police officer who pushed Ian Tomlinson over leading to his death was charged with manslaughter rather than with, and I know you're not trying to downplay what happened, "pushing". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson I didn’t say it mattered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 17 minutes ago, lenred said: I didn’t say it mattered? Agreed, I was just noting that offence was assault which doesn't have to specify the manner of the assault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: It doesn't matter how the injuries were caused; the police officer who pushed Ian Tomlinson over leading to his death was charged with manslaughter rather than with, and I know you're not trying to downplay what happened, "pushing". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ian_Tomlinson But was subsequently acquitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterRedthanBlue Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 38 minutes ago, lenred said: Is that the offence - pushing (sorry not followed the case)?! The offence is ABH "According to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), the offence of ABH is committed ‘when a person intentionally or recklessly assaults another… causing actual bodily harm’." From the prosecutions case today Barton was intent on getting into a scrap with Stendel (or a pushing match) which caused Stendel to fall off balance and hit the side of the tunnel causing injury including the tooth coming loose from the bone. This seems like it'll be a category 3 (although could be a stage 2). "The sentencing guidelines for ABH fall into three categories, with Category 1 is the most serious and involving greater harm and high culpability. Category 2 involves either more significant harm but lower culpability or lesser harm and higher culpability Category 3 involves lesser harm and lower culpability." Given Joey's past History it could honestly go either way if he's found guilty he could be locked up or given another suspended sentence 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, BetterRedthenBlue said: The offence is ABH "According to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), the offence of ABH is committed ‘when a person intentionally or recklessly assaults another… causing actual bodily harm’." From the prosecutions case today Barton was intent on getting into a scrap with Stendel (or a pushing match) which caused Stendel to fall off balance and hit the side of the tunnel causing injury including the tooth coming loose from the bone. This seems like it'll be a category 3 (although could be a stage 2). "The sentencing guidelines for ABH fall into three categories, with Category 1 is the most serious and involving greater harm and high culpability. Category 2 involves either more significant harm but lower culpability or lesser harm and higher culpability Category 3 involves lesser harm and lower culpability." Given Joey's past History it could honestly go either way if he's found guilty he could be locked up or given another suspended sentence Good points. The Crown doesn't have to prove intent for an ABH conviction, just casuality of the injury, even through transferred malice, or recklessness. I.e if you threw a stone at a window to cause damage; and it rebounded into someone's face causing injury, you would still be done for assault; as you were doing an inherently criminal act. The fact that Stendel's back was turned away from Barton kind of negates the defence of self defence. I think his defence counsel knows that he's on a hiding to nothing with this case, particulary as it's been witnessed by independents. Then again, Stokes got off ( Due to a massive CPS blunder). So anything is possible. Edited June 7, 2021 by NcnsBcfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 25 minutes ago, BetterRedthenBlue said: The offence is ABH "According to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), the offence of ABH is committed ‘when a person intentionally or recklessly assaults another… causing actual bodily harm’." From the prosecutions case today Barton was intent on getting into a scrap with Stendel (or a pushing match) which caused Stendel to fall off balance and hit the side of the tunnel causing injury including the tooth coming loose from the bone. This seems like it'll be a category 3 (although could be a stage 2). "The sentencing guidelines for ABH fall into three categories, with Category 1 is the most serious and involving greater harm and high culpability. Category 2 involves either more significant harm but lower culpability or lesser harm and higher culpability Category 3 involves lesser harm and lower culpability." Given Joey's past History it could honestly go either way if he's found guilty he could be locked up or given another suspended sentence Thanks BRB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: He has a record of violent crime. Agreed. It's not like it's a one off out of character event. Agreed. But this current offence is surely less serious than the previous one (OK, previous two or three or four....) 2 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said: Whilst i agree @TomF that the max sentence for a S47 ABH is up to 5 years; you need to realise that Barton has already had custodial sentences for like offences. With that in mind, the non-custodial options open to the sentencing judge will be somewhat limited. Any sentence under 2 years can be suspended, and that is of course what his defence counsel would push for in the event of a jury verdict. The amount of bad character against him, will play a big part; if it is his case that it was self defence. My understanding is that JB has simply pleaded Not Guilty, i.e. not even that the alleged offence was committed in self defence. 2 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said: I doubt it's a category 3 offence. More like a 2, down to the level of injury. A chipped tooth? Even within thise categories you have A,B & C levels. Even it is finally classed as a Category 2 (for a push?), and notwithstanding aggravating factors such as, inter alia, previous convictions, surely this is a case of both Lower Harm and Lesser Culpability. My bet is 12 months suspended (maximum). Edited June 7, 2021 by PHILINFRANCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelton’s Love Gravy Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) Taking into account his previous convictions for violent offences and his “not guilty” plea I would be somewhat surprised if he wasn’t jailed if he is indeed found guilty. No suspended sentence nonsense please - JUST SEND HIM DOWN! Edited June 7, 2021 by Shelton’s Love Gravy I accidentally wrote the word “found” twice. Arrrrrgggghhhh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumpylegs Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 Also, the fact that he is well known will go against him. Courts have a tendency to be less lenient when sentencing high profile cases. You never know though - he might be acquitted - although few on this forum seem to be considering the possibility that he didn’t do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NcnsBcfc Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 49 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: But this current offence is surely less serious than the previous one (OK, previous two or three or four....) My understanding is that JB has simply pleaded Not Guilty, i.e. not even that the alleged offence was committed in self defence. My bet is 12 months suspended (maximum). Prior to the start of the trial, his defence team would have had to serve a DCS (Defence case statement) outlining what his defence/issue is with the indictment (charge). In that way, all parties know what the issues are in advance. I'm guessing; but given it was on CCTV and witnessed; he will go down the route of it being accidental; and he stumbled forward whilst trying to stop himself. Or some other creative defence like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 Mr Barton was "still very worked up" and used some foul language towards Mr Stendel, which he "did not fully understand but realised he was being insulted". You what! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 Barfon would have an arse like a dustbin if he goes down. He would be someone's bitch in seconds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 23 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said: Barfon would have an arse like a dustbin if he goes down. He would be someone's bitch in seconds! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 32 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said: Barfon would have an arse like a dustbin if he goes down. He would be someone's bitch in seconds! He wouldn’t, though, would he? He is ‘quIte’ hard himself and has money. He also has influential ‘friends’, including a convicted Police killer. Should he be imprisoned, which I doubt, he will no doubt be feted by his fellow prisoners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 1 hour ago, NcnsBcfc said: Prior to the start of the trial, his defence team would have had to serve a DCS (Defence case statement) outlining what his defence/issue is with the indictment (charge). In that way, all parties know what the issues are in advance. I'm guessing; but given it was on CCTV and witnessed; he will go down the route of it being accidental; and he stumbled forward whilst trying to stop himself. Or some other creative defence like that. À propos creative defences, I am sure you recall Sir Alex Ferguson’s totally credible excuse for speeding/driving on the hard shoulder of a motorway, i.e. he had an extreme case of diahorrea (spelling) and was desperate to get to a toilet. He was acquitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: He wouldn’t, though, would he? He is ‘quIte’ hard himself and has money. He also has influential ‘friends’, including a convicted Police killer. Should he be imprisoned, which I doubt, he will no doubt be feted by his fellow prisoners. Yep someone will be holding his pocket walking around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fgrsimon Posted June 7, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 Astonishing Lansdown meltdown / Playing the victims from user 'gulfofaden' on GasChat Akin to terrorism mind! Lansdown hasn’t just been a benefactor to city, which he is entitled to do, but he’s also been antagonistic to Rovers on any occasion he can to win favour with his fan base including the Matt Taylor saga which given the fact we got the exact release fee (which was supposed to be confidential) is akin to terrorism in football terms. He’s also putting posters on the Glocs road, getting his sponsors to ridicule us through postal campaigns and trying very hard to get a club who for much of his life was a giant firm of bedminster hooligans who regularly smashed up our ground and attacked and threatened our players pegged as some “family club”. They have some normal fans of course but also a giant contingent on cocaine and cider addled specimens which dwarf, and have always dwarfed, ours, even pro rata. You think he couldn’t see all that victimisation and violence in the 80s and 90s? Was he blind? Of course he wasn’t my. That’s fine, he can still bankroll the club but to do so, and still pander to those guys and continually harrass and target us knowing full well the asymmetric history between us, is beneath contempt. It wasn’t 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. It was grown men targeting families and players in their own homes. If he had adopted the attitude of “City is my club, Good luck to Rovers but I hope we are always above them” then I would have all the time in the world for him. He didn’t, he, like a playground bully, has been sadistic and provocative in swinging his weight around, to a club he knows can’t really fight back. And the reason for this? The heinous crime which caused this ire? We used to beat them a lot, before. When we were in dire straights and on paper we shouldn’t have. That’s it. That’s what all this is about. https://gaschat.co.uk/thread/18097/bristol-owner-steve-lansdown-writes?page=2 1 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sglosbcfc Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 I don't want him to be sent down, he's doing far too good a job at the Rovers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: He wouldn’t, though, would he? He is ‘quIte’ hard himself and has money. He also has influential ‘friends’, including a convicted Police killer. Should he be imprisoned, which I doubt, he will no doubt be feted by his fellow prisoners. With his arrogance? Can't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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