Hampshire Red Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 With most supporters worried about us finding a striker for this season, do you think any of our midfielders could be turned into scoreres, and if so who? CoD has played advanced roles behind the strikers for Ireland, Massengo looks like he can push forward, Weimann may be able to turn assists into goals? I'm sure the coaching team are doing what we have done in pre-seasons before but it will be interesting to see who wants to 'step-up' come Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 I think that a front line of - Wells Palmer/Scott COD Weimann Is capable of scoring plenty of goals at this level, however getting them the ball earlier enough and in space is crucial, our tempo needs to be so much sharper and more risks taken with forward passes. IMO this is where NP is trying to improve things and the days of pointless ball possession and sets of 20 side ways passes between the back 4 and keeper are long gone. Matt James is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 We saw signs against Villa that we can play at a better tempo with crisper passes. There was good movement, even in first half. A couple of notes that Vyner (RB) has been guilty of pinging diags early in possession last season, and often resulted in turnover possession. Some of that I commented last season was down to CM (Lansbury and even Nagy) not giving passing options. Versus Villa, James often gave him that little angled passing option inside, but what that also helped was creating a passing Lane into Martin’s feet. Weimann giving that mobile option down the right, coming short, spinning long. For me, that was a huge improvement on our ability to progress the ball up the pitch in a pattern that allowed us to build a build a bit of territory and we knocked on the door first half without creating much clear cut….but won corners from good defending. Second half it got better, this time down our left, as Scott and Bell worked openings. As you say no more SOD-like 20 passes between the back 4 and then a punt forward. Of course we will have to go long at times, but much more controlled play, more interchanges between players. The signs are there, but not expecting miracles. I’m not sure taking one game with 0 goals against PL opposition, is the barometer many OTIBers and tweeters should be using as their benchmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 Most of our midfielders look even less likely to score than our (so called) strikers. Do we even have a player or two actually capable of hitting a shot with any power? I really can't see this team scoring many this season and our shots on target ratio per game has been awful in competitive games of late. We have to create chances to score goals and then need to have the players to put them away. Neither seem very close to happening as things stand. On the other hand, I have gone into a season full of optimism and been disappointed as often as I have gone into a season full of pessimism and been surprised. Maybe we are going to be surprised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 The midfields goal scoring stats over the last few years. I dunno, id expect 10 to 15 between them this year. I think Tys going to get a few more this year. We have been blessed with double figure scoring midfielders in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Robin Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 No! - we need to bring in a striker now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 There are so many question marks about this season and our ability to score goals is one of them. I haven’t seen any of the pre-season games so can’t comment on those. Wells is a capable striker if he’s given the service. Weimann can weigh in with goals too. As can Palmer. Martin has strengths, but 133 goals in 449 games over his career (according to Wiki) is hardly prolific. Diedhiou and Pato, for all their numerous faults, got us goals and haven’t been replaced. From what I’ve read on this forum, we have young players who are exciting prospects. But they are learning and the Championship is a tough league. COD is an interesting one. He has been a frustrating player so far, but maybe with a smaller squad and consequently more game time this is the season when he will ignite. But that’s still a big ‘if’. So yep, our goal scoring options look thin on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 Think it might be more the case that we have a few who chip in with a few as opposed to one scoring 10-15 goals. James got 3 at Coventry last season, Nagy likewise IIRC. Unsure how many Bakinson got, was it 3 or 4? King could in his day but seems more of a squad player, Massengo might but not yet. Williams only has 2 career goals to his name. That's goals from CM, spread across a season. We've not really had one who looked capable of say 10-15 since Brownhill left. Or maybe 5-10 plus assists a good equivalent. Someone like Mowatt, Johansen, Johnson or Browne to name some, players in that mold. All either moved or contracted elsewhere however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: We saw signs against Villa that we can play at a better tempo with crisper passes. There was good movement, even in first half. A couple of notes that Vyner (RB) has been guilty of pinging diags early in possession last season, and often resulted in turnover possession. Some of that I commented last season was down to CM (Lansbury and even Nagy) not giving passing options. Versus Villa, James often gave him that little angled passing option inside, but what that also helped was creating a passing Lane into Martin’s feet. Weimann giving that mobile option down the right, coming short, spinning long. For me, that was a huge improvement on our ability to progress the ball up the pitch in a pattern that allowed us to build a build a bit of territory and we knocked on the door first half without creating much clear cut….but won corners from good defending. Second half it got better, this time down our left, as Scott and Bell worked openings. As you say no more SOD-like 20 passes between the back 4 and then a punt forward. Of course we will have to go long at times, but much more controlled play, more interchanges between players. The signs are there, but not expecting miracles. I’m not sure taking one game with 0 goals against PL opposition, is the barometer many OTIBers and tweeters should be using as their benchmark. Obviously you are right that the Villa game tells us nothing about our goal threat in the coming season. It was, though, a very familiar experience seeing City struggle to break a defence down (although we were getting the ball in much better areas than we were for much of last season). It's definitely a valid question - do we have enough firepower? - just looking at the profile of the squad tells us that. Weimann, Wells, Semenyo, Martin... all serve us well at times in different ways, but none score regularly. The question then is, is it a problem with these individuals or is it a problem with the broader team (delivery etc). A lot of people seem convinced that certain individuals could be more prolific if they are played in the right position, and no doubt each of the players would claim they need regular game time to unleash their best output. Do we have good enough goalscorer to achieve our xG? I'm not convinced. We might need to create a lot of chances to score the requisite goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 Taking the Villa game I saw a few promising signs. Tempo, much better , and more intent on supporting the forward players. Getting into threatening areas, we actually created situations. They didn't lead to real chances , probably down to the wrong choice at the time. But those legendary 'box entries' were more promising. Going long. We'll we did, but it looked much more purposeful . Getting the FB's to turn or getting a 1v1 in wide area. Movement was far, far better. Not perfect but it did look like the man on the ball did have options. A few tweaks and that attacking line up of Wells, Weimann , COD & Palmer (or Scott) has movement and will create space. Palmer has the skill and vision to bring players into the game. Its' a little unfair to judge KP playing behind Martin. Give him targets in front of him and I think he'll shine. Weimann too, looked much better and more of a threat when Afobe was playing. One thing I think will be true this year, there will be no more muddle or complicated thinking. NP has trimmed the squad with purpose and he will get them drilled. What I hope for is more entertainment in the opposition box, been a long time since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 hour ago, mozo said: Obviously you are right that the Villa game tells us nothing about our goal threat in the coming season. It was, though, a very familiar experience seeing City struggle to break a defence down (although we were getting the ball in much better areas than we were for much of last season). It's definitely a valid question - do we have enough firepower? - just looking at the profile of the squad tells us that. Weimann, Wells, Semenyo, Martin... all serve us well at times in different ways, but none score regularly. The question then is, is it a problem with these individuals or is it a problem with the broader team (delivery etc). A lot of people seem convinced that certain individuals could be more prolific if they are played in the right position, and no doubt each of the players would claim they need regular game time to unleash their best output. Do we have good enough goalscorer to achieve our xG? I'm not convinced. We might need to create a lot of chances to score the requisite goals. Just on this point, it can depend on a) Which model people use and b) How much credibility they give it but over a season- well over the last 2, the Experimental 3-6-1 model actually has us outperforming our xG by 5.9 and 5.3 goals respectively. Put another way, the forecast in 2020/21 was for 40.1 goals in the League, we scored 46. For 2019/20 it was 54.7 in the League- we scored 60. Appears to be no table for 2018/19 or 2017/18... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original OTIB Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Davefevs said: We saw signs against Villa that we can play at a better tempo with crisper passes. There was good movement, even in first half. A couple of notes that Vyner (RB) has been guilty of pinging diags early in possession last season, and often resulted in turnover possession. Some of that I commented last season was down to CM (Lansbury and even Nagy) not giving passing options. Versus Villa, James often gave him that little angled passing option inside, but what that also helped was creating a passing Lane into Martin’s feet. Weimann giving that mobile option down the right, coming short, spinning long. For me, that was a huge improvement on our ability to progress the ball up the pitch in a pattern that allowed us to build a build a bit of territory and we knocked on the door first half without creating much clear cut….but won corners from good defending. Second half it got better, this time down our left, as Scott and Bell worked openings. As you say no more SOD-like 20 passes between the back 4 and then a punt forward. Of course we will have to go long at times, but much more controlled play, more interchanges between players. The signs are there, but not expecting miracles. I’m not sure taking one game with 0 goals against PL opposition, is the barometer many OTIBers and tweeters should be using as their benchmark. The main issue is that rarely does a forward go near post (maybe get the ball, at least create space behind/in the middle) and, the bigger issue, absolutely no runner(s) from midfield arriving in the box. To get goals, someon has to "gamble", as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 37 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Just on this point, it can depend on a) Which model people use and b) How much credibility they give it but over a season- well over the last 2, the Experimental 3-6-1 model actually has us outperforming our xG by 5.9 and 5.3 goals respectively. Put another way, the forecast in 2020/21 was for 40.1 goals in the League, we scored 46. For 2019/20 it was 54.7 in the League- we scored 60. Appears to be no table for 2018/19 or 2017/18... I suppose the most instructive xG figure in this conversation would be the xG achievement of specifically our forwards. Diedhiou I would imagine would be above his xG because he had some super sub games. Wells and Semenyo and would in my mind be trailing xG but I stand to be corrected! Weimann we would have to go back a season. Martin probably 1:1 because he doesn't find himself in scoring positions often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 4 hours ago, mozo said: Obviously you are right that the Villa game tells us nothing about our goal threat in the coming season. It was, though, a very familiar experience seeing City struggle to break a defence down (although we were getting the ball in much better areas than we were for much of last season). It's definitely a valid question - do we have enough firepower? - just looking at the profile of the squad tells us that. Weimann, Wells, Semenyo, Martin... all serve us well at times in different ways, but none score regularly. The question then is, is it a problem with these individuals or is it a problem with the broader team (delivery etc). A lot of people seem convinced that certain individuals could be more prolific if they are played in the right position, and no doubt each of the players would claim they need regular game time to unleash their best output. Do we have good enough goalscorer to achieve our xG? I'm not convinced. We might need to create a lot of chances to score the requisite goals. Interesting that under Holden, first 10 or so games (inc caretaker) we pretty much improved a lot of attacking numbers by 10-20% (inc xG) and decreased the defensive numbers similarly. Then the injuries came and wheels fell off. I don’t think it will take much from playing a better-drilled system to improve our numbers. I’m certainly not expecting expansive Brentford style football, but we can be more entertaining. Was Villa not entertaining? Fitness will help us keep pushing, surely that gives us a chance of producing over 90 mins, rather than 15 mins in each half and then blowing out our arses? Last season was a lower scoring Championship than before….there were 7 teams who scored less than us. There were a lot of lacklustre games, certainly first half of the season. I guess we will know a lot more by the end of August? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 7 hours ago, VT05763 said: Matt James is the key. Alex Scott is the secret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 minute ago, CyderInACan said: Alex Scott is the secret Together they are, Urban Cookie Collective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Interesting that under Holden, first 10 or so games (inc caretaker) we pretty much improved a lot of attacking numbers by 10-20% (inc xG) and decreased the defensive numbers similarly. Then the injuries came and wheels fell off. I don’t think it will take much from playing a better-drilled system to improve our numbers. I’m certainly not expecting expansive Brentford style football, but we can be more entertaining. Was Villa not entertaining? Fitness will help us keep pushing, surely that gives us a chance of producing over 90 mins, rather than 15 mins in each half and then blowing out our arses? Last season was a lower scoring Championship than before….there were 7 teams who scored less than us. There were a lot of lacklustre games, certainly first half of the season. I guess we will know a lot more by the end of August? I personally thought we put in a very reasonable performance v Villa, save for some defensive clangers. I was very happy with how we broke the lines and found space in wide areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 3 hours ago, mozo said: I personally thought we put in a very reasonable performance v Villa, save for some defensive clangers. I was very happy with how we broke the lines and found space in wide areas. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampshire Red Posted August 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 Some of us on otib write too many words to get our views/opinions onto a forum. However, Top Robin uses minimal words, rather 'Just like that' as Tommy Cooper would say. Can he explain who, how , where freom and what the funding will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 13 hours ago, Hampshire Red said: With most supporters worried about us finding a striker for this season, do you think any of our midfielders could be turned into scoreres, and if so who? CoD has played advanced roles behind the strikers for Ireland, Massengo looks like he can push forward, Weimann may be able to turn assists into goals? I'm sure the coaching team are doing what we have done in pre-seasons before but it will be interesting to see who wants to 'step-up' come Saturday I think we can write off goals for cod and massengo, weimann ought to be good for 10, james might get 5, as might palmer. King and bakinson im not sure will get much time but 5 between them might happen? With 5 each from martin and semenyo, i reckon if wells gets 40 we might do ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 2, 2021 Report Share Posted August 2, 2021 From left wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampshire Red Posted August 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 Simon, Love it. If Wells gets 10 from open play, I'll fly to the moon; 40, and I'm laughing already at the prospect Great humour, love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 21 hours ago, Top Robin said: No! - we need to bring in a striker now! Ok, I assume you are going to invest enough money in the club for this to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted August 3, 2021 Report Share Posted August 3, 2021 Pre-season seemed to show more of a willingness to shoot from the edge of the box so I'm hopeful we can up the goals from midfield. Bakinson we know can strike a good ball, as can Palmer. I see no reason why Nagy, king and James couldn't add to the scoresheet. I think much has been made of a need for another striker but I'm not gloomy as its not as if anyone else has done much. The 3 Premiership relegated clubs, along with the 3 losing play-off sides from last season will all enter the new season with a new manager who will be under pressure to hit the ground running. None of them has significantly improved their squad and most are worse off. If you look across the division most clubs have signed players released by other Championship clubs. Does the like of Lansbury to Luton, Ameobi to Boro, Lees to Huddersfield, Mowatt to West Brom etc improve them? Only time will tell. In fact if we can keep our senior players fit we might be better off than most with signings we have made and the experience gained by our youngsters.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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