Heading to be phased out in 10 years

[Cowshed]

5 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Removing heading a ball would destroy the game as we know it. Think about Freekicks, Corners etc, it would become like Field Hockey.

I am worried about banning it for youngsters too because I feel you need to learn to head the ball properly to minimise risk. 

I would also like to know how the research separates the damage from heading a ball from that of a clash of heads in the process, to me the latter is far more dangerous and happens frequently in each 90 minutes.

 

Thre are heading guidelines in place for kids football. Poor heading technique has to be a result. Its hard to impossible to learn without repetition. Skill is also lost obviously without practice.

At lower ages kids dont really head balls frequently and the age related size three ball is very light v a size five. 

In regards to the point about heading damage v clashes of heads etc research as of yet doesnt seperate the data. Research identified spikes in dementia .. Why? Well the FA Field study created heading guidelines but inconclusive results leading to more research to be carried out - on going.

 

[James54De]

4 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Not patronising at all are you?

So Four elderly people from a Football squad from the 1960s and that is your answer. Many elderly people get dementia who don't play football, it's nature. 

Can you not understand why many of us don't want a drastic change to the game we love?

1 in 15 in a normal population get dementia. That’s 6.6%. 6 of 22 World Cup winners developed dementia, that is 27%

Yes, of course I can understand, unfortunately you’re not the one putting for future life on the line for the game though. 

[James54De]

3 minutes ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

Exactly madness, dementia is a terrible disease but I do question to validity and strange passionate views some people have…

it’s simple really tell the professionals what could happen, financially you will compensated very well for the small risk in a 10 year career…

Are you in or out …

No more to be said really 

It’s not a small risk. In fact, it’s a pretty ******* big risk. 

[Edgy Red]

5 minutes ago, James54De said:

Of course, but I don’t eat red meat or drink alcohol for a job. For a career to increase the likelihood of developed a degenerative brain disease by up to 500%, is pretty horrendous. In fact, I’d be interested to know how, now a clear correlation and causation has been established between the job and illness, this fits in with employment law. 

Thats a valid point regarding heading being part of an occupation and therefore i'm sure it will be challenged by an ex players family at some point, who will undoubtebly win the case and the millions of pounds that come with it!

But... what a sad world we are living in if we have to challenge every enjoyment we have.

The world we live in is being diluted more and more every year and surely its better to live a full and enjoyable 75 years than 85 years of containment and restrictions?

 

[2015]

2 minutes ago, James54De said:

1 in 15 in a normal population get dementia. That’s 6.6%. 6 of 22 World Cup winners developed dementia, that is 27%

Yes, of course I can understand, unfortunately you’re not the one putting for future life on the line for the game though. 

The Players know what they are getting themselves into, if they don't want to play because of those stats, they have a choice. If it were me as a 17 year old coming through right now I'd still want heading as its part of the long History of the Sport.

We really are in a World now where we cannot accept people get ill and die and every work place poses potential long term health issues. Nature is nature

[redsquirrel]

7 minutes ago, James54De said:

I’m not an expert, and it’s comments like such that suggest you’re not in a position to add to the debate. 

Four of the ‘66 winning squad have died from dementia, with 2 more confirmed suffering from it. Rumours are that there is a few more, on top. That’s a squad of 22 players. Over quarter of them have developed dementia. 

Understand now? 

just been reading some stuff on this, apparently back then, heading a wet ball was like headbutting a brick, a bit different to todays balls

[2015]

2 minutes ago, Edgy Red said:

 

The world we live in is being diluted more and more every year and surely its better to live a full and enjoyable 75 years than 85 years of containment and restrictions?

 

Of course. There are many many who aren't happy with this though and want to control other people's liberties and lives. Pathetic

[Maltshoveller]

2 minutes ago, James54De said:

It’s not a small risk. In fact, it’s a pretty ******* big risk. 

It is called having a choice 

They can carry on playing or Stop simple as that

[Nogbad the Bad]

4 minutes ago, James54De said:

I’m not an expert, and it’s comments like such that suggest you’re not in a position to add to the debate. 

Four of the ‘66 winning squad have died from dementia, with 2 more confirmed suffering from it. Rumours are that there is a few more, on top. That’s a squad of 22 players. Over quarter of them have developed dementia. 

Understand now? 

Unfortunately it's very common for people of their age group -1 in 6 people over 80 suffer from Dementia.

850k people in the UK have Dementia - the vast majority will not be former professional footballers.

[Waffleflap]

11 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Couldnt play with one of those

They dont move about in the air as much as the balls they use in the prem!!!

The only ball you can bend both ways with one strike.  Never knew where it was going mind.  Would be entertaining though 

[grifty]

1 hour ago, Redpool said:

If this is to happen in football then it should happen in every single workplace where the body is at risk.

Those who sit down all down should be given standing desks. Sitting down all day can cause major back and hip issues…etc etc 

Where do you draw the line? 

Standing up for periods of time hurst my back. I'll have to crouch somewhere in between!

[James54De]

14 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Not patronising at all are you?

So Four elderly people from a Football squad from the 1960s and that is your answer. Many elderly people get dementia who don't play football, it's nature. 

Can you not understand why many of us don't want a drastic change to the game we love?

Can be yes. When people make ******* silly comments. 

[2015]

1 minute ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

Exactly the moment we start apologising and compensating is the beginning of the downward spiral, 

this conversation being in the public eye will no doubt bring the£££ signs in eyes of families 

It will also no doubt be jumped upon by certain politicians and anyone against the change will be seen as not caring about the health and safety of others.

It's predictable.

[James54De]

Just a few small reads to help people understand how widespread dementia is in ex-professional footballers

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/nov/02/football-and-dementia-players-who-died-with-or-are-living-with-the-disease-england-1966

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8909249/amp/World-Cup-winners-Brazil-Germany-Italy-Argentina-succumbed-dementia.html

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-08/dementia-the-deadly-legacy-of-englands-world-cup-triumph/7826618

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/football/108701/strong-inarguable-link-geoff-hurst-speaks-out-on-dementia-in-football%3famp

[BS4 on Tour...]

14 minutes ago, James54De said:

I’m not an expert, and it’s comments like such that suggest you’re not in a position to add to the debate. 

Four of the ‘66 winning squad have died from dementia, with 2 more confirmed suffering from it. Rumours are that there is a few more, on top. That’s a squad of 22 players. Over quarter of them have developed dementia. 

Understand now? 

Which four members of the 66 squad have died from dementia? And which two others are suffering from it? I’m sure you are aware that Jack Charlton was battling lymphoma before he died and I’m sure you are aware that Nobby Stiles suffered a series of health issues in his later life, including a stroke. And there is a lot of discussion around the difference between dementia and Alzheimer’s - which is relevant to your claims about the ‘66 England squad ...

[James54De]

9 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Unfortunately it's very common for people of their age group -1 in 6 people over 80 suffer from Dementia.

850k people in the UK have Dementia - the vast majority will not be former professional footballers.

There is absolutely no argument, in scientific fields, and in football circles, that professional footballers develop dementia at 400% the rate of the normal population. None

[Bris Red]

So lets tell floor layers they cannot lay flooring anymore as being on your knees all day as they could develop knee morbidity in later life? Or shall we tell scaffolders or groundworkers that heavy manual labour for years on end could cause chronic back and other spinal issues in later life? Where do you draw the line? That’s right you cannot. Its absolutely bollox IMO.

[James54De]

3 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Which four members of the 66 squad have died from dementia? And which two others are suffering from it? I’m sure you are aware that Jack Charlton was battling lymphoma before he died and I’m sure you are aware that Nobby Stiles suffered a series of health issues in his later life, including a stroke. And there is a lot of discussion around the difference between dementia and Alzheimer’s - which is relevant to your claims about the ‘66 England squad ...

https://www.skysports.com/football/story-telling/11095/12174891/the-boys-of-66-how-englands-world-cup-heroes-are-losing-their-battle-with-dementia
 

“The World Health Organisation says between five to eight per cent of the general population over the age of 60 has dementia. But in the case of England’s World Cup-winning team, it’s up at about 46 per cent.“

[Edgy Red]

Just now, James54De said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/story-telling/11095/12174891/the-boys-of-66-how-englands-world-cup-heroes-are-losing-their-battle-with-dementia
 

“The World Health Organisation says between five to eight per cent of the general population over the age of 60 has dementia. But in the case of England’s World Cup-winning team, it’s up at about 46 per cent.“

Could you please provide similar stats for the French, German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch, Hungarian and Swedish sides of the same era, so that we have a full picture of football in the 1960's

[TonyTonyTony]

You may not like the evidence but it is undoubtably conclusive.

[pillred]

31 minutes ago, James54De said:

It’s not a small risk. In fact, it’s a pretty ******* big risk. 

Which they now know about, surely it's up to them whether they want to take it nobody forces them do they? carry on down this road and we will end up with no Rugby or Boxing or any other contact sport.

[Cowshed]

13 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

You may not like the evidence but it is undoubtably conclusive.

It isn't. Is there a advanced risk? Yes. What is the actual risk? Unclear. How is the advanced risk created? Heading but its whys? Will modern footballs increase risks? Unclear. Is the risk created by frequency of heading or by the heading of balls travelling at high velocity? Unclear. Are dementia rates in footballers declining or increasing? Unclear. Why do rates of players with dementia display spikes of numbers across decades? Unclear. 

[Baba Yaga]

 

29 minutes ago, James54De said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/story-telling/11095/12174891/the-boys-of-66-how-englands-world-cup-heroes-are-losing-their-battle-with-dementia
 

“The World Health Organisation says between five to eight per cent of the general population over the age of 60 has dementia. But in the case of England’s World Cup-winning team, it’s up at about 46 per cent.“

Apparently 1 in 6 people over 80 have dementia which is much more appropriate to use than over 60, misleading stats from sky sports trying to make it into a bigger story.

As for this graph they have created, I like making stats out of anything but wow... but if you took 8 players from 4 World Cup squads (not just first xi to manipulate the numbers) and took the percentage with dementia it would be a lot less than the 46% from your graph, probably less than 10% in total.

Basically that article is misleading and I highly doubt sky really care about player health.

[James54De]

26 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

 

Apparently 1 in 6 people over 80 have dementia which is much more appropriate to use than over 60, misleading stats from sky sports trying to make it into a bigger story.

As for this graph they have created, I like making stats out of anything but wow... but if you took 8 players from 4 World Cup squads (not just first xi to manipulate the numbers) and took the percentage with dementia it would be a lot less than the 46% from your graph, probably less than 10% in total.

Basically that article is misleading and I highly doubt sky really care about player health.

And Covid doesn’t exist either, does it @Baba Yaga

[Baba Yaga]

20 minutes ago, James54De said:

And Covid doesn’t exist either, does it @Baba Yaga

Well since sky sports is your source for scientific research I think you should have a look at some of professor le tissiers work on covid. 

[James54De]

23 minutes ago, Baba Yaga said:

Well since sky sports is your source for scientific research I think you should have a look at some of professor le tissiers work on covid. 

Reference my earlier post. British Medical Journal good enough for you? Or maybe not because it’s not www.davidicke.co.uk? Suggest you read this journal article. 

 

2 hours ago, James54De said:

BBC article:

“Experts at Glasgow University have been investigating fears that heading the ball could be linked to brain injuries.

The study began after claims that former West Brom striker Jeff Astle died because of repeated head trauma.

It compared deaths of 7,676 ex-players to 23,000 from the general population. 

The sample was taken from men who played professional football in Scotland, and were born between 1900 and 1976.”

 

Actual Research Article from Willie Stewart:

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/53/6/321.abstract

(If you can’t get access to it but would like to read it, drop me a message and I may be able to send it across to you)

 

On top of that, if you go onto Google Scholar and search “Football dementia”, or similar, you will find a rapidly growing wealth of information and research on the subject. 

 

[Son of Fred]

6 hours ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

it’s not right and becomes predictable, boring

That's the time to stop watching.

I won't be.

[Snufflelufagus]

8 hours ago, Redpool said:

If this is to happen in football then it should happen in every single workplace where the body is at risk.

Those who sit down all down should be given standing desks. Sitting down all day can cause major back and hip issues…etc etc 

Where do you draw the line? 

Very good points. Inactivity causes over 600000 deaths a year. So we might end up banning sofas at this rate.

[MC RISK77]

7 hours ago, lukebcfc1989 said:

A lot of pro footballing centre halves have reached 65 where are they and there complaints??? 

Are they all going to come out at once and share their illnesses in full public spotlight. The 1966 World Cup final winning team have been ravaged by this disease with 5 of them having dementia- they are they most high profile players but I would be very surprised if their wasn’t hundreds more who played lower league football around the same decade who have suffered the same fate.

[the1stknowle]

7 hours ago, 2015 said:

The Players know what they are getting themselves into, if they don't want to play because of those stats, they have a choice. If it were me as a 17 year old coming through right now I'd still want heading as its part of the long History of the Sport.

We really are in a World now where we cannot accept people get ill and die and every work place poses potential long term health issues. Nature is nature

So 16 year old Lionel Messi decides ‘nah, risks too big here. Football is not for me’. And walks away. Is the game in a better place for forcing him into that decision?

Surely better to see if such a serious risk to player welfare can be reduced, no?  Nearly ALL sports have been made safer as we understand more the potential long term health risks. If actual scientific discovery finds that over heading a football can be ruinous in later life and there are ways to mitigate that risk, we look at those rather than starting from the reactionary view of ‘it must stay the same and if it brains a few people in their 50s well they have been well paid for my entertainment’. 
 

I understand the reaction against removing all heading. But that is not a near possibility. But mitigating the potential damage IS and efforts are already underway. The whole ‘snowflakes’ framing of your argument where people cannot accept risk or illness is a total red herring. We have always lived in a world where we try to  balance acceptable risk. That is all that is going on here. 
 

But the conversation can’t be ‘I love football as it is so I’m inclined not to believe the science’.