Heading to be phased out in 10 years

[James54De]

50 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Not wanting to play things down, but have a couple of issues with the data.

First, the numbers in the research (was 7ish thousand I think), but of people born over a nearly 80 year time period. A time during which there were 2 World Wars, one of which some players conceivably fought in and effects from that could have played more of a part than heading a ball.

Some rough maths puts the number of players from the Prem to League 2 at 2500-2700. Roughly a third of what's in the study. 

That's just for the sake of scale.

Now, the numbers being higher for Centre Backs could support the idea, but what about midfielders and/or target men, the players who will be challenging for things like goal kicks? 

Are the numbers higher for target men?

With a sample under 8,000 and a rate of was it 1 in 6(?) There's still potential that actually a number of those would sadly have developed dementia regardless and it was an unfortunate group of people.

This can be somewhat resolved if the research goes wider and looks at more people and the numbers don't make a noticeable change.

With regards to the footballs being lighter, and thus able to travel faster, that itself doesn't necessarily make a huge difference. 

F=MA, and one being higher and the other lower doesn't always mean they cancel out, especially as the amount lighter that the footballs have got isn't that much. But the crucial thing is that the weight of the modern ball doesnt change that much.

The older footballs would retain weight from the water when it was wet (and with our weather this is something that should not be discarded) whereas a modern footballs weight will largely remain similar to when it is dry.

So potentially an older football, despite perhaps moving slower may actually impact more force when headed than a modern one.

 

If the research continues and still finds a large disparity, then look at changing things, if all things have been taken into account.

As of right now, and without knowing what factors they've taken into consideration I'd like to know more details and see a larger sample than spans more countries than the current one.

Have you read the paper? It certainly appears not. 

[James54De]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Thousands of hours of research from scientists with expertise but we should probably ignore all that because Riaz from OTIB ‘isn’t having it’ 

It scares me that people are so ******* stupid as to think that their opinion and meaningless experiences are worth more then studies conducted by highly intelligent scientists who have spent years researching their field. Unsurprisingly, @Riaz is also a contributor in the Covid thread who refuses to believe a lot of the science surrounding the pandemic. Sometimes characters like that are best ignored. 

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, James54De said:

Have you read the paper? It certainly appears not. 

I havent read the paper itself, I read the link you posted to and a link within that.

Does the paper itself address the questions I raised?

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

I've never had so much of a headache from heading a ball.

Well, good for you. In the context of comparing your sole anecdotal experience against highly qualified scientists researching the topic it doesn’t matter (to quote @Robbored) one iota.

[Steve Watts]

33 minutes ago, James54De said:

It scares me that people are so ******* stupid as to think that their opinion and meaningless experiences are worth more then studies conducted by highly intelligent scientists who have spent years researching their field. Unsurprisingly, @Riaz is also a contributor in the Covid thread who refuses to believe a lot of the science surrounding the pandemic. Sometimes characters like that are best ignored. 

Headaches and dementia do require a brain to settle into......!

[Riaz]

43 minutes ago, James54De said:

It scares me that people are so ******* stupid as to think that their opinion and meaningless experiences are worth more then studies conducted by highly intelligent scientists who have spent years researching their field. Unsurprisingly, @Riaz is also a contributor in the Covid thread who refuses to believe a lot of the science surrounding the pandemic. Sometimes characters like that are best ignored. 

I believe science. Usually. But in the case of Covid, there are way scientists can be corrupted. 
 

But this is about heading and head injuries. Try boxing and getting punched in the head repeatedly. That has left me with a sore head and it goes without saying, that is dangerous. And i compare it to heading modern footballs and the “impact” is night and day in comparison… i wouldn’t even go as far as calling it an impact. 
 

I think dementia comes with old age. Are any of these ex footballers who are suffering from dementia, are they young? In their 50’s? 

[Steve Watts]

3 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I believe science. Usually. But in the case of Covid, there are way scientists can be corrupted. 
 

But this is about heading and head injuries. Try boxing and getting punched in the head repeatedly. That has left me with a sore head and it goes without saying, that is dangerous. And i compare it to heading modern footballs and the “impact” is night and day in comparison… i wouldn’t even go as far as calling it an impact. 
 

I think dementia comes with old age. Are any of these ex footballers who are suffering from dementia, are they young? In their 50’s? 

Not football, but as has been stated, Steve Thompson has it at 42.

[Riaz]

2 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Not football, but as has been stated, Steve Thompson has it at 42.

Let’s keep it to football, because other sports are irrelevant. They will have different dangers.

[TonyTonyTony]

3 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Let’s keep it to football, because other sports are irrelevant. They will have different dangers.

Id advise you to watch the Alan Shearer documentary.

[Nogbad the Bad]

35 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I think dementia comes with old age. Are any of these ex footballers who are suffering from dementia, are they young? In their 50’s? 

You're right, as said above 1 in 6 people over 80 and currently 850k sufferers in the UK.

Geoff Hurst was one of the youngest members of the '66 squad and he'll be 80 this year, so these are very elderly chaps, with all those dying of Dementia reaching - and 2 exceeding - the average male life expectancy in the UK of 78 years and 7 months.

Ray Wilson was 83 when he died, Nobby Styles 78, Martin Peters 78, Jack Charlton 85.

Others, notably Bobby Moore and Alan Ball, died much younger, and nothing to do with Dementia.

 

[2015]

32 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Id advise you to watch the Alan Shearer documentary.

Yes because documentaries are definitely not bias and not trying to push a certain narrative.

[TonyTonyTony]

5 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Yes because documentaries are definitely not bias and not trying to push a certain narrative.

Seems to me a good way to get informed on subjects is to take in as much information as you can on it. The documentary was very thought provoking in my opinion. Don’t know you are so dismissive of it. As usual you have made up your mind on something without looking into it.

[2015]

4 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Seems to me a good way to get informed on subjects is to take in as much information as you can on it. The documentary was very thought provoking in my opinion. Don’t know you are so dismissive of it. As usual you have made up your mind on something without looking into it.

I watched it a couple of years ago  Thought provoking ? Yes. Pushing a narrative ? Yes. That's fine, it's what documentaries do, but not conclusive enough for me to believe heading should be banned.

[Red-Robbo]

How much study has been done about the impact of heading modern footballs?

We know old leather, lace-up footballs collected moisture and ended up far heavier (and more irregularly-shaped) than modern thermally bonded polyurethane balls.

It is no surprise many footballing greats ended up with dementia. Studies show the dementia rate in these elderly footballers exceed that in the general population.

I just wonder if much study has gone into the realities for most footballers today?

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Thousands of hours of research from scientists with expertise but we should probably ignore all that because Riaz from OTIB ‘isn’t having it’ 

The research cannot and does include the timescales the poster was referring to. The use of the word modern. Footballs the modern the poster refers to for instance like the widely used Impel training ball would not have existed within the same timeframes. 

The research and there are several studies including the FIELD study - FA is anything but conclusive. The FA study sample was players born before 1980.  

[downendcity]

Walking through the door of the training ground/medical centre last season must have been one of the highest risk activities in the sporting world! 

As regards the op. If banning something has public support and does not reduce the revenue/tax take to the Government, they will be right behind the campaign. 

The older I get the more cynical I become. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

53 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

You're right, as said above 1 in 6 people over 80 and currently 850k sufferers in the UK.

Geoff Hurst was one of the youngest members of the '66 squad and he'll be 80 this year, so these are very elderly chaps, with all those dying of Dementia reaching - and 2 exceeding - the average male life expectancy in the UK of 78 years and 7 months.

Ray Wilson was 83 when he died, Nobby Styles 78, Martin Peters 78, Jack Charlton 85.

Others, notably Bobby Moore and Alan Ball, died much younger, and nothing to do with Dementia.

 

The fact that dementia mainly affects people in old age doesn’t make it any the more horrible.  Older people are entitled to a quality of life which dementia destroys.  Anything that can be done to prevent people getting dementia should be done, whatever age the sufferers usually are.

Just now, downendcity said:

Walking through the door of the training ground/medical centre last season must have been one of the highest risk activities in the sporting world! 

As regards the op. If banning something has public support and does not reduce the revenue/tax take to the Government, they will be right behind the campaign. 

The older I get the more cynical I become. 

The older I get the more relieved I am that I don’t have dementia…

[Steve Watts]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Yes because documentaries are definitely not bias and not trying to push a certain narrative.

I wonder if you would have the same view had the documentary gone the other way.....

[2015]

1 minute ago, Steve Watts said:

I wonder if you would have the same view had the documentary gone the other way.....

I would still say it was pushing a certain narrative.. All documentaries have a certain idea to push

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

4 hours ago, Riaz said:

I've never had so much of a headache from heading a ball.

I would’ve thought the difference between professional players heading the ball every day in training and matches and Riaz part time pimp, and part time center back who heads the ball as well as he back hands his bottom bitch Wendy is massive! 
 

say hi to Wendy for me!

[Riaz]

1 hour ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

I would’ve thought the difference between professional players heading the ball every day in training and matches and Riaz part time pimp, and part time center back who heads the ball as well as he back hands his bottom bitch Wendy is massive! 
 

say hi to Wendy for me!

They may head it every day, but it’s hardly a big impact. If heading does not hurt at all… how can it create damage??

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

56 minutes ago, Riaz said:

They may head it every day, but it’s hardly a big impact. If heading does not hurt at all… how can it create damage??

It’s not that it hurts!  it’s that it’s repetitive and it shakes the brain which gradually causes damage to the brain receptors!

[AppyDAZE]

I can imagine footbal in 10 years time

"Headball"  Come on, ref.

That's a penalty every day of the week. He ******* headed it, Stevie Wonder could have seen that.

[JamesBCFC]

2 hours ago, Riaz said:

They may head it every day, but it’s hardly a big impact. If heading does not hurt at all… how can it create damage??

Does a drop of rain have much impact on a rock?

No.

 

Do rocks get eroded over time by water? 

Yes.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

The fact that dementia mainly affects people in old age doesn’t make it any the more horrible.  Older people are entitled to a quality of life which dementia destroys.  Anything that can be done to prevent people getting dementia should be done, whatever age the sufferers usually are.

The older I get the more relieved I am that I don’t have dementia…

I assume you mean 'any the less  horrible' and of course I would agree.

That 5 ex England '66 World Cup squad members have/had Dementia is awful, but it's not far off the 1 in 6 average for their age group.

Dementia can't be prevented as things stand, it affects people from all walks of life, mostly in old age, and ex- professional footballers will be a miniscule minority of the 850k UK sufferers, the vast majority of whom suffer with it without ever having persistently headed a football.

I've had reason to make enquiries recently for a family member and 78 out of over 140 care homes in the Bristol area offer specialist Dementia care; unfortunately it's a very common age-related condition, and increasingly more so as people are generally living longer.

 

 

[Riaz]

3 hours ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

It’s not that it hurts!  it’s that it’s repetitive and it shakes the brain which gradually causes damage to the brain receptors!

Shake the brain

this is ridiculous 

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

17 hours ago, Riaz said:

Shake the brain

this is ridiculous 

It’s been scientifically proven what’s ridiculous about it? The Brain sits in your skull surrounded by fluid as a impact to the head is felt a sends the brain into the skull depending on the force, for damaging nerve endings and what not! 
 

I don’t know how that’s so hard to understand! 
 

Ask your street bitches I’m sure they’ll know!