The Office (UK): Ipswich Town edition

[TRL]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll be amazed if their wage bill is less this season than last.  The players they got rid of in the summer we’re a mix of young, fringe and first teamers….not all first teamers.

 I suspect Sears, Ward, Judge we’re on a decent wedge though.  They’ve just brought in 19 first teamers.  Very different.  I suspect their wage bill has increased significantly.  I wonder how much the CEO is paying himself.  I did hear an awful rumour of £750k p.a.

Colchester are going to have the oldest team in the world judging by that!

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, chinapig said:

That was in an inflated and inflationary market, which he gambled would go on forever so he could keep - his favourite word - trading. He was predictably wrong, which has damaged our finances badly.

The market has now collapsed so he isn't likely to have a (short term) profitable streak again.

Very true, and I’d argue he paid over the odds for players bought too - fees and wages!

He loved trading….that’s partly why so few senior players signed new contracts over his time here.  Far better for him to move someone on and buy someone new.  That transfer profit figure in the annual accounts may’ve looked good, but when you look at wage increase and amortisation rise you see it was only one part of the equation.  Had he made that kind of transfer profit on a flatter wage and amortisation increase profile I would have a very different view.  But wages doubled, amortisation was five times the amount it was when he took over.  Those figures hamstrung (no pun) Holden initially and now Pearson.  Without COVID, financial constraints were still around the corner.

When we sold Webster, Eisa and Pack, then Brownhill in 19/20, we still spent more on transfer fees than we netted from those transfers.

[Rob k]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll be amazed if their wage bill is less this season than last.  The players they got rid of in the summer we’re a mix of young, fringe and first teamers….not all first teamers.

 I suspect Sears, Ward, Judge we’re on a decent wedge though.  They’ve just brought in 19 first teamers.  Very different.  I suspect their wage bill has increased significantly.  I wonder how much the CEO is paying himself.  I did hear an awful rumour of £750k p.a.

Let’s be honest he wouldn’t have taken a paycut and he was running the whole club here whilst having SL under some sort of spell on 560k or something here 

[Silvio Dante]

Just on Ipswich’s outs, this is their third(?) season at league one. My town supporting mate, who is hugely Ashton sceptical, tells me that price of football reported their average wage in the first league one season as £6k p/w, with a significantly sized squad.

I’ve no doubt some “in”s are on a decent wedge (eg Morsy), but if you take the wage depression that would have been caused by Covid in line with the above info on prior finances, it’s not a definite that they’ve had a significant wage uplift. 

[Davefevs]

Definitely not definite…..but my guess is it is

[Davefevs]

Looks like the season before last (19/20)had already seen a reduction from the Championship level wages.  We will have to wait for 20/21s (pre-Gamechanger / Ashton) and another year for this seasons.

 

[soultrader]

On 02/09/2021 at 09:12, ashton_fan said:

Only 3 players cost them money, the rest were freebies and loans. I see Wes Burns was one of the new signings and they got rid of Cole Skuse and James Wilson. Some Ipswich fans are saying they have "the best squad in L1 history" and hope to get 100 points this season, they actually mention our title season and they hope to emulate that. Trouble is they've had no pre-season with most of the players so could take them until Christmas to work out their best eleven.

I would be surprised if they (or any other team) did that.  One of the big differences being Cotts had started assembling his team the season before.

Perhaps they all come together and gel as a team?  Maybe ... although given MAs past track record I will not be putting money on them to do so.

I am glad MA has gone.  Will not miss the souless, vapid vibe that he bought to the club

[soultrader]

On 02/09/2021 at 10:29, Davefevs said:

Great summary btw.

Re FFP in Lg1/2 it’s different to Champ.

At it’s simplest it’s 60% of turnover on wages (55% in Lg2). But….the key part is this:

Turnover definition 

Under the SCMP rules, the definition of 'Turnover' is particularly important as Turnover is used to determine the maximum wage-spend. Within a traditional accounting perspective, there are usually only three elements of turnover: 

Match-day Income 

Commercial Income (such as sponsorship) 

TV revenue (and any 'merit payments' based on league position)

However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts

Ipswich’s new owners are taking advantage of the bit in bold…in some respects this can make a “big club” in Lg1 terms a very viable investment to get the momentum building.  Their problem will be that if they get promoted they will have to fall under Championship rules.  Irrespective of what “Mark” says, they will be paying big wages for Lg1. Some players will have taken pay cuts, I don’t doubt that, but not that much….and you can bet their contract next season if promoted will be a sizeable uplift.  That will hamper Ipswich….especially when owner donations don’t count either.  It’s why SL can’t just bung us a £10m striker!

The list I originally compiled I looked at in terms of “real” success on the pitch and financial success, e.g. did they perform relative to their fee.  It was very subjective.  I tried to keep it simple by giving them Green, amber, red for both categories, and looked at which ones were green in both.  Plenty of our signings fell into “middle ground”, so not a true success, nor a sh1t signing either.  But I also wanted to overlay the fact that our CEO says our recruitment team and processes are world class, other clubs ask us how we do it.  So against that high expectation set by our CEO, were the likes of Wright and Pato successful, were the meh, or were they bad.  With Wright (and Matty Taylor and Liam Walsh) I was massively frustrated that we exercised their options and still let them leave for free.  We let both go on loan, there’s little chance we recouped all their wages too, so why extend their contract at a cost.  Things like that make the signing of Wright err towards failure from being an ok signing. That’s where Ashton seriously mis-managed us, stuff like that.  Just wasted money.

Back to Q, all very subjective, but rationale to reach that subjectivity

I think if you look back on MAs tenure, regarding transfers, yes we sold some people for big bucks.  Can't argue with that, although you could question if we should have sold them?

I think the main thrust of his tenure was to hamstring the club, by making (mostly) mediocre signings.   So the team was dilluted every time

 

 

[Abraham Romanovich]

On 03/09/2021 at 19:53, Davefevs said:

Looks like the season before last (19/20)had already seen a reduction from the Championship level wages.  We will have to wait for 20/21s (pre-Gamechanger / Ashton) and another year for this seasons.

 

So they made a loss of £5m and have losses bought forward of £95m making losses carried forward of £100 m, astonishing for 3rd division side.

 if this was any other business they would cease to trade, perhaps you would be good enough to provide a brief answer as to how this is allowed to continue and how they meet the basic audit requirement of being a going concern.

Thanks in advance

Edited September 6, 2021 by Abraham Romanovich

[exAtyeoMax]

19 minutes ago, soultrader said:

I am glad MA has gone.  Will not miss the souless, vapid vibe that he bought to the club

This

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

So they made a loss of £5m and have losses bought forward of £95m making losses carried forward of £100 m, astonishing for 3rd division side.

 if this was any other business they would cease to trade, perhaps you would be good enough to provide a brief answer as to how this is allowed to continue and how they meet the basic audit requirement of being a going concern.

Thanks in advance

I guess the owners have significant backing to cover it…..no different to SL and the £150m losses he's converted to shares.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/gEbxPgrW-MEiNtD9zaidCDWzEPtQR5SGZCbU8t2OKTA/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3LPBXCG5V%2F20210906%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20210906T075424Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjECYaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJGMEQCICyQClouGdNKH0fZj5AdCFtdmok44KSvZVs2RUSN6mcTAiAG2JRh89nItcLzY6pvZ5fNFE9as%2BblUMqtSyasJPucyyr6AwhvEAMaDDQ0OTIyOTAzMjgyMiIMjuHwDIBX%2BRY2qYmAKtcDRbJJ9P6igFlrePyishYGMxBS8K44i1sFDOZ6VPhiWUQLf%2F%2FLzGQnE3YfuaPlyKqeRSxuVLo49dpDk5KyW6rsWX9JGHrKycgZHUKPZVjeoPZQlhUd9S6tOeOgTpMvK9YNRjbDFnjk%2BCdGLvZe41CVCnTSnw2TxfwHVcl9XnfdX23MFMxYKoqc68nhHSbZiUaJJocjSBGQNXEQpQIuKSETItyDqBgdNwewkU508jsP1ER1V6kPi4gyHXVt%2BfZBARe5Al2Mt67uk600xM76CneDJF%2F5b6TAN7rp4QJ99%2FaGtR4N56JwocQVxYIWK7W3zoXST2pt9Uo3D%2FYVSM5uuxBe4kBSlXbCkjQn%2FOPNeyL4nrvWa9eeJ56iYhSO2Ekl0TLSnN57ge6VkzX6v9zf6v%2FCnJF57MQ0hP7TwFXx7RGYu4Wvl0MzyC1BjhATITd0rWcZhnNsvIARifcyxNdGDT8YMS6F69o1rTzxBdu9VkHz9EGw9v8zvY7l2b%2BsMgBkvH%2FXoy7%2BdlYd1P%2FT9kNXcsMy4D9FSAXHvIWQgsdjeIQt37b7hrkIxdnf8IN39fWP0BXQyUi8JRWz3txavFuALzIAWT6JtaW1QMKGXwH9wD4aFzzAmxPDqzsAMJXg1okGOqYBi4EtdPtLvpXeFd%2BNd35%2F9TDzB1TKPTpZD8T9Y2iRy%2FjEWL7yiDbOd9ntRKhTscvYEe61DQSORzuY9X1ooatNqEbwjCniyU2K%2BbD1QOKozM7FFoKwRZheNPZR26Rs%2FWBrOhP2D%2B2XkLnPO%2F3p5vr11AEEZWzzzkUTMj6xRfhJjmsNdU8rg6XzSVqlaAEDo5ybQh8waAGevehMO6MGfZvn0Opr1SWwXw%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"00315421_aa_2021-06-30.pdf"&X-Amz-Signature=c56cd96c2474ddc0918365d7112d26570530be1feb782f99301c1ea3716e51ff

[Abraham Romanovich]

34 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I guess the owners have significant backing to cover it…..no different to SL and the £150m losses he's converted to shares.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/gEbxPgrW-MEiNtD9zaidCDWzEPtQR5SGZCbU8t2OKTA/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3LPBXCG5V%2F20210906%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20210906T075424Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjECYaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJGMEQCICyQClouGdNKH0fZj5AdCFtdmok44KSvZVs2RUSN6mcTAiAG2JRh89nItcLzY6pvZ5fNFE9as%2BblUMqtSyasJPucyyr6AwhvEAMaDDQ0OTIyOTAzMjgyMiIMjuHwDIBX%2BRY2qYmAKtcDRbJJ9P6igFlrePyishYGMxBS8K44i1sFDOZ6VPhiWUQLf%2F%2FLzGQnE3YfuaPlyKqeRSxuVLo49dpDk5KyW6rsWX9JGHrKycgZHUKPZVjeoPZQlhUd9S6tOeOgTpMvK9YNRjbDFnjk%2BCdGLvZe41CVCnTSnw2TxfwHVcl9XnfdX23MFMxYKoqc68nhHSbZiUaJJocjSBGQNXEQpQIuKSETItyDqBgdNwewkU508jsP1ER1V6kPi4gyHXVt%2BfZBARe5Al2Mt67uk600xM76CneDJF%2F5b6TAN7rp4QJ99%2FaGtR4N56JwocQVxYIWK7W3zoXST2pt9Uo3D%2FYVSM5uuxBe4kBSlXbCkjQn%2FOPNeyL4nrvWa9eeJ56iYhSO2Ekl0TLSnN57ge6VkzX6v9zf6v%2FCnJF57MQ0hP7TwFXx7RGYu4Wvl0MzyC1BjhATITd0rWcZhnNsvIARifcyxNdGDT8YMS6F69o1rTzxBdu9VkHz9EGw9v8zvY7l2b%2BsMgBkvH%2FXoy7%2BdlYd1P%2FT9kNXcsMy4D9FSAXHvIWQgsdjeIQt37b7hrkIxdnf8IN39fWP0BXQyUi8JRWz3txavFuALzIAWT6JtaW1QMKGXwH9wD4aFzzAmxPDqzsAMJXg1okGOqYBi4EtdPtLvpXeFd%2BNd35%2F9TDzB1TKPTpZD8T9Y2iRy%2FjEWL7yiDbOd9ntRKhTscvYEe61DQSORzuY9X1ooatNqEbwjCniyU2K%2BbD1QOKozM7FFoKwRZheNPZR26Rs%2FWBrOhP2D%2B2XkLnPO%2F3p5vr11AEEZWzzzkUTMj6xRfhJjmsNdU8rg6XzSVqlaAEDo5ybQh8waAGevehMO6MGfZvn0Opr1SWwXw%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"00315421_aa_2021-06-30.pdf"&X-Amz-Signature=c56cd96c2474ddc0918365d7112d26570530be1feb782f99301c1ea3716e51ff

Thanks but none of the links work for me, all I get is this "XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it" which is ironic as similar comments have often been made about my attire..

.

[Son of Fred]

On 03/09/2021 at 13:37, Ska Junkie said:

like the vast majority, I'm so glad to see the back of the buzz word ridden, vein, self obsessed car salesman! 

Thank goodness he wasn't an estate agent!

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Thanks but none of the links work for me, all I get is this "XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it" which is ironic as similar comments have often been made about my attire..

.

Just Google “companies house beta”, type Ipswich Town football and go from there.

[downendcity]

37 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Thank goodness he wasn't an estate agent!

It’s all about location, location, location.

He’s found the right location - anywhere but here!

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, soultrader said:

I think if you look back on MAs tenure, regarding transfers, yes we sold some people for big bucks.  Can't argue with that, although you could question if we should have sold them?

I think the main thrust of his tenure was to hamstring the club, by making (mostly) mediocre signings.   So the team was dilluted every time

The ffp experts will confirm, but I think the simple answer is yes, we had to to cover losses to keep within ffp. Also with players like Reid, Bryan, Webster would they have been happy had we denied the their chance to play at the highest level, added to which can you imagine the flack the club would have got had they turned down the bids we got for those players?

[Bainsey]

On 01/09/2021 at 21:26, Henry said:

I’m confused; is it one or two ingredients? Time or patience?

Cook isn’t going to last long, it pains Ashton to say his name.

Ding Ding Ding!

The scores are just in, I've just counted.

One of his most-loathed phrases - Mark Ashton says "this football club" a grand total of TEN times during this 9 minute interview. That's more than once a minute. Absolutely sickening. 

[Southport Red]

16 minutes ago, Bainsey said:

Ding Ding Ding!

The scores are just in, I've just counted.

One of his most-loathed phrases - Mark Ashton says "this football club" a grand total of TEN times during this 9 minute interview. That's more than once a minute. Absolutely sickening. 

Saves him having to learn the name 

[Soul_Trader]

[slartibartfast]

On 06/09/2021 at 11:40, Bainsey said:

Ding Ding Ding!

The scores are just in, I've just counted.

One of his most-loathed phrases - Mark Ashton says "this football club" a grand total of TEN times during this 9 minute interview. That's more than once a minute. Absolutely sickening. 

TBF most "suits" say this, it does my brain in as well. Why not just say this club ?

[Davefevs]

He’s done another media interview today with the local East Anglian press.

Starts off with saying he went after Bersant Celina earlier this summer….before he’d spoken to Paul Cook.  It fell through due to Celina having a heart issue which subsequently was resolved prior to deadline day deal.

More talk about going after certain players because he knew the agents well.  ICM Stellar Sports are a big agency, but  - Celina, Burns, Coulson, Chaplin, 

plus non-Ipswich players Woodrow, Burke and Whatmough (who we were allegedly interested in), Wickham, Dozzell (who they just sold), Morrell (who they tried to sign), Maenpaa.  I suspect some of our press might have their contacts in this agency?

Then talk of Wes Burns and how he knew him from when he was consultant here, and how he did Wes’s first pro deal, took him to Oxford on loan and how he gets on so well with Wes’s family and “representatives”.

Then talks about Kyle Edwards and how the Chairman (O’Leary- ex WBA) said they should sign Edwards….so they did.

Both the press guys blowing smoke up his arse….about the hours he works, how many calls he took in a day, etc.

Having said that, if you didn’t know his previous form you might think it was all fantastic.

[chinapig]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He’s done another media interview today with the local East Anglian press.

Starts off with saying he went after Bersant Celina earlier this summer….before he’d spoken to Paul Cook.  It fell through due to Celina having a heart issue which subsequently was resolved prior to deadline day deal.

More talk about going after certain players because he knew the agents well.  ICM Stellar Sports are a big agency, but  - Celina, Burns, Coulson, Chaplin, 

plus non-Ipswich players Woodrow, Burke and Whatmough (who we were allegedly interested in), Wickham, Dozzell (who they just sold), Morrell (who they tried to sign), Maenpaa.  I suspect some of our press might have their contacts in this agency?

Then talk of Wes Burns and how he knew him from when he was consultant here, and how he did Wes’s first pro deal, took him to Oxford on loan and how he gets on so well with Wes’s family and “representatives”.

Then talks about Kyle Edwards and how the Chairman (O’Leary- ex WBA) said they should sign Edwards….so they did.

Both the press guys blowing smoke up his arse….about the hours he works, how many calls he took in a day, etc.

Having said that, if you didn’t know his previous form you might think it was all fantastic.

I begin to wonder how Paul Cook passes the time since Ashton seems to do at least half his job! When does Ashton get his coaching badges I wonder?

[SE23Red]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He’s done another media interview today with the local East Anglian press.

Both the press guys blowing smoke up his arse….about the hours he works, how many calls he took in a day, etc.

Having said that, if you didn’t know his previous form you might think it was all fantastic.

It seems like the majority of their fans are going with a very simplistic view that he"s done an amazing job in the transfer window and all the pressure is on Cook to deliver the promotion they believe this squad deserves.

So the quality of the recruitment won't get the scrutiny it deserves. I can't see this changing for at least a couple of years.

Edited September 8, 2021 by SE23Red

[1960maaan]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Starts off with saying he went after Bersant Celina earlier this summer….before he’d spoken to Paul Cook.

That bodes well for the Manger - Ego relationship. Always tell the man in charge of the main part of the Club that you didn't "really" want him 

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

More talk about going after certain players because he knew the agents well.

I did wonder about this. IMO it's not a great way to build a squad. Bit like only shopping at Lidl when they first opened. Had similar things you wanted, but not the exact one. But , hey, you're there so might as well shop there.

The fans will be a little like young kids at Xmas. Just opened one present, throws it to one side and wants the next.
We were the same, at least to start. They made such a show of the "New Man" , focus was taken off of the fact we weren't building a team. IMO he stayed so long because Steve was a mate, and loyal . The new owners won't be so forgiving, probably why .........

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Then talks about Kyle Edwards and how the Chairman (O’Leary- ex WBA) said they should sign Edwards….so they did.

He's a bluffer. 

 

29 minutes ago, SE23Red said:

So the quality of the recruitment won't get the scrutiny it deserves. I can't see this changing for at least a couple of years.

They will be so desperate for success, you're probably right. The squad is about 30 first team players deep as far as I can see. 19 new signings? That doesn't usually lead to a happy and functioning squad . Oh how we'll laugh.

[CyderInACan]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

He's a bluffer

Well, that's one word for it . . . 

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Well, that's one word for it . . . 

I was being polite / avoiding a ban 

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, SE23Red said:

It seems like the majority of their fans are going with a very simplistic view

Ever been to Ipswich?  It's not going to be highly finessed and well-thought out.

[alexukhc]

@djb6162 friends with Mark are ya?

[Richard Head]

57 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Ever been to Ipswich?  It's not going to be highly finessed and well-thought out.

Oi Bard, I’m from round there. We take it in turns to be the village idiot.

[Kodjias Wrist]

5 hours ago, SE23Red said:

It seems like the majority of their fans are going with a very simplistic view that he"s done an amazing job in the transfer window and all the pressure is on Cook to deliver the promotion they believe this squad deserves.

So the quality of the recruitment won't get the scrutiny it deserves. I can't see this changing for at least a couple of years.

He gets credit for signing 19 players yet there is no inside information on whether they over or underpaid them. Whats funny is ours, Oxford and Watford fans have all expressed disdain for Ashton. But we should be thankful because he left us in a better position!?! hahaha....What scrapping to stay up ? Some of their fans are doughnuts.