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The Atkinson/Baker (or Kalas) axis


Silvio Dante

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Not seen a thread on Atkinson today so thought I’d bung some thoughts down here, both individually and how he goes with Baker.

First - Rob. I thought that was a very good debut. I was expecting some not as good defending but good distribution, however he ticked both boxes. What was really impressive was the use of the body, he both got in front of people in chases (and bought the fouls) and also used physicality to win first ball. Definitely also comfortable on the ball - a couple of fantastic triangles with Jay and Matty James. I realise it won’t be the best forward line he’ll face, but as I understand it he had a torrid time against Blackpool in the playoffs and this was far from that. Very happy with that.

The question then becomes who you pair him with. Nathan , for me, did nothing majorly wrong today (and one header in the second half was phenomenally brave), but my big reservation is not that he didn’t win the ball (he did) but where that ball went. If you watch the game back, the ball hits his head more often than not. There’s no great direction or great distance. So, I’d say he won a lot of ball - but that ball win isn’t an alleviate pressure ball win, it’s a minor stop. Don’t get me wrong, he may then win the second, but the first win (and the distribution) doesn’t get us out of trouble. Pure defending - fine. But I don’t see him ahead of Kalas and when up to speed, think Atkinson/Kalas seems the way to go for the reasons above.

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Just now, Red Alert said:

Would prefer a Kalas / Atkinson combination but thought Baker had a decent game.

I expect Kalas might be sold, thought it during the Euros & surprised hasn’t happened yet.

No chance IMO… when he is fully fit baker is our best central defender at this level

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Just now, MC RISK77 said:

No chance IMO… when he is fully fit baker is our best central defender at this level

I think that’s my point - you’re seeing him defend (and you may argue that’s the point of a defender) but I’m not sure his first phase defending stops a second phase. (For avoidance of doubt, he is a very good defender).

Think of it this way. If you had a striker who was your best finisher, but by having him in the side it meant you actually could score less goals (because collectively others contribution meant we were better off) - would you play him or not?

I think Baker defends first phase balls very well (and is our best at “stopping”) but I think Kalas and Atkinson may collectively be better at preventing 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think that’s my point - you’re seeing him defend (and you may argue that’s the point of a defender) but I’m not sure his first phase defending stops a second phase. (For avoidance of doubt, he is a very good defender).

Think of it this way. If you had a striker who was your best finisher, but by having him in the side it meant you actually could score less goals (because collectively others contribution meant we were better off) - would you play him or not?

I think Baker defends first phase balls very well (and is our best at “stopping”) but I think Kalas and Atkinson may collectively be better at preventing 

 

 

Fair shout fella…I like one of my central defenders to be able to defend as you say the first ball with the other being more comfortable on the ball.

Baker/Webster we’re good.

This team will need a leader someone who puts his body on the line and baker is when fully fit one of the best out and our defenders in this league 

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12 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

No chance IMO… when he is fully fit baker is our best central defender at this level

Glad you think so as he will be our most experienced by the time transfer window closes. 

Just hope Baker can offer 100% availability throughout season 

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11 minutes ago, Marco the red said:

Issue Is thd full backs, vyner learning and dasilva has been a huge disappointment despite injuries since turning loan into permanent deal.

Presumably you mean "due to" or "because of". 

I thought he did ok today, but shin splints rarely go away completely and I think he will have to get used to playing with discomfort at a minimum.

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Baker will be exposed playing on the right side.  He's not used to it and so doesn't see things.  He should have got across to their player for the equaliser much quicker and would have done if it was on the left.  I thought him and Atkinson were too far apart.  Atkinson is clearly a very good player but is young and having Baker one side of him and JD leaving his position all the time did not help him.  Teams will exploit our left sid e

 

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29 minutes ago, Red Alert said:

 

Just hope Baker can offer 100% availability throughout season 

That’s the massive risk though, isn’t it - especially if Kalas departs.

In the space of 10 minutes in the second half we saw why. Not a million miles from a straight red. Then a flying header for a 50/50 ball at boot level. He got away with both, and the latter was a brave interception, but on another day……….

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14 minutes ago, YGBjammy said:

So was Kalas left out the starting lineup today because he started training later? Or tactical reasons? Or transfer reasons?

A bit of all three I would guess. Late back to training after the Euros, plus Pearson seems to like both Baker and Atkinson. Finally of those 3, Kalas definitely has the most resale value, given that he is the international, had a good Euros and is probably on the highest wages.

There are 2 problems with all of this though. Baker is not naturally a right-sided centre back. Plus his injury record is awful and no reason to think it would suddenly get better this season. If we sell Kalas, and Baker gets injured, we are down to either Vyner or Cundy at centre back with Atkinson, and that is not a prospect that fills me with confidence at this level.

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I was really happy with Atkinson's performance. Thought he looked solid defensively, strong in the air, and very comfortable on the ball. Pretty much what I'd hoped for from him, but I was pleasantly surprised that he was able to display it in his very first championship game.

Baker was his usual self - strong, brave, and combative. I don't have any major complaints about Baker's performance, but still feel Kalas is the better option. Kalas just offers a bit more athleticism and composure on the ball for me. A Kalas/Atkinson partnership also gives you a bit more balance with a right-footer and left-footer.

IMHO, Kalas and Atkinson has the potential to be a brilliant pairing at this level. Nothing against Baker though, he's still a good option. 

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I think Baker and Atkinson compliment each other pretty well and the only problem is that they are both left footed. Atkinson will prove to be a good signing and i'm sure his value will rise over the next few years.

If we receive a decent offer for Kalas, i would cash in and improve the forward areas of the squad. I think we would need to bring another centre back in, but that could be a free agent/loan with any money going towards an attacker.

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2 minutes ago, Marco the red said:

If Kalas went we would need another centre back who is championship ready - can't rely on Baker due to fitness plus back up options aren't good enough.

I completely agree. We would need to bring in another Champ ready centre back but i'm sure there will be plenty of loans/free agents available.  It appears that Nige is happy to pick a team without Kalas in it, so i think its likely he will move on.

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7 minutes ago, Edgy Red said:

I completely agree. We would need to bring in another Champ ready centre back but i'm sure there will be plenty of loans/free agents available.  It appears that Nige is happy to pick a team without Kalas in it, so i think its likely he will move on.

That's a good point. In my head he is essential but apparently not in Pearson's. If we sell him we might then have cash to spend on a striker, then get a CB in on loan maybe?

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To be honest I think both Baker and Kalas ate better defenders, If we were to go back to 1990 and have a sweeper Atkinson would be awesome.

 

I think we are going to see some major mistakes from Atkinson when up against better players than he was up against today, his body shape looked all wrong to me when defending.  That said he did what he had to do today, and if he continues to do that even if his body shape looks wrong great.

It's one game  it's hard to judge. Plenty of positives but some concerns, it's all a learning curve for him at the moment. I think he is one we may have to be patient with.

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8 hours ago, Marco the red said:

Issue Is thd full backs, vyner learning and dasilva has been a huge disappointment despite injuries since turning loan into permanent deal.

What are you on about

 Dasilva when playing is an incredible talent

playing in an average championship side is not dasilva's responsibility

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9 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

A bit of all three I would guess. Late back to training after the Euros, plus Pearson seems to like both Baker and Atkinson. Finally of those 3, Kalas definitely has the most resale value, given that he is the international, had a good Euros and is probably on the highest wages.

There are 2 problems with all of this though. Baker is not naturally a right-sided centre back. Plus his injury record is awful and no reason to think it would suddenly get better this season. If we sell Kalas, and Baker gets injured, we are down to either Vyner or Cundy at centre back with Atkinson, and that is not a prospect that fills me with confidence at this level.

Has Taylor Moore left the club? 

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Right foot-left foot...Kalas-Atkinson IMO.

Baker a more than useful first reserve. Kalas can perhaps play a bit higher than we've deployed him in recent times, interceptions stat v Norwich in December 2018- had the most on the pitch, think of him v Baker, he'd be better suited to a higher line personally.

Interesting that we played a much higher line with Baker and Atkinson than we did with Kalas (last season).  Was one if the positives for me.

Atkinson had a very assured debut, I’m sure he will have his moments too, but I would have no issue with any 2 from 3.  Not sure I’d be saying Baker is first reserve until I’ve seen more of Atkinson.  Baker was solid again today, as he was v Villa.

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