Silvio Dante Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Not seen a thread on Atkinson today so thought I’d bung some thoughts down here, both individually and how he goes with Baker. First - Rob. I thought that was a very good debut. I was expecting some not as good defending but good distribution, however he ticked both boxes. What was really impressive was the use of the body, he both got in front of people in chases (and bought the fouls) and also used physicality to win first ball. Definitely also comfortable on the ball - a couple of fantastic triangles with Jay and Matty James. I realise it won’t be the best forward line he’ll face, but as I understand it he had a torrid time against Blackpool in the playoffs and this was far from that. Very happy with that. The question then becomes who you pair him with. Nathan , for me, did nothing majorly wrong today (and one header in the second half was phenomenally brave), but my big reservation is not that he didn’t win the ball (he did) but where that ball went. If you watch the game back, the ball hits his head more often than not. There’s no great direction or great distance. So, I’d say he won a lot of ball - but that ball win isn’t an alleviate pressure ball win, it’s a minor stop. Don’t get me wrong, he may then win the second, but the first win (and the distribution) doesn’t get us out of trouble. Pure defending - fine. But I don’t see him ahead of Kalas and when up to speed, think Atkinson/Kalas seems the way to go for the reasons above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeez Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Would prefer a Kalas / Atkinson combination but thought Baker had a decent game. I expect Kalas might be sold, thought it during the Euros & surprised hasn’t happened yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Just now, Red Alert said: Would prefer a Kalas / Atkinson combination but thought Baker had a decent game. I expect Kalas might be sold, thought it during the Euros & surprised hasn’t happened yet. No chance IMO… when he is fully fit baker is our best central defender at this level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted August 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Just now, MC RISK77 said: No chance IMO… when he is fully fit baker is our best central defender at this level I think that’s my point - you’re seeing him defend (and you may argue that’s the point of a defender) but I’m not sure his first phase defending stops a second phase. (For avoidance of doubt, he is a very good defender). Think of it this way. If you had a striker who was your best finisher, but by having him in the side it meant you actually could score less goals (because collectively others contribution meant we were better off) - would you play him or not? I think Baker defends first phase balls very well (and is our best at “stopping”) but I think Kalas and Atkinson may collectively be better at preventing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: I think that’s my point - you’re seeing him defend (and you may argue that’s the point of a defender) but I’m not sure his first phase defending stops a second phase. (For avoidance of doubt, he is a very good defender). Think of it this way. If you had a striker who was your best finisher, but by having him in the side it meant you actually could score less goals (because collectively others contribution meant we were better off) - would you play him or not? I think Baker defends first phase balls very well (and is our best at “stopping”) but I think Kalas and Atkinson may collectively be better at preventing Fair shout fella…I like one of my central defenders to be able to defend as you say the first ball with the other being more comfortable on the ball. Baker/Webster we’re good. This team will need a leader someone who puts his body on the line and baker is when fully fit one of the best out and our defenders in this league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeez Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said: No chance IMO… when he is fully fit baker is our best central defender at this level Glad you think so as he will be our most experienced by the time transfer window closes. Just hope Baker can offer 100% availability throughout season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Thought both defended well today. I would worry about them with better strikers especially with pace and movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Atkinson was excellent today, one of the best debuts I can recall. Looks a brilliant bit of business and a steal at ~1.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Super said: Thought both defended well today. I would worry about them with better strikers especially with pace and movement. Is that not the case with ANY centre back pairing? The better the striker the harder it is for the defender!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Marco the red said: Issue Is thd full backs, vyner learning and dasilva has been a huge disappointment despite injuries since turning loan into permanent deal. Presumably you mean "due to" or "because of". I thought he did ok today, but shin splints rarely go away completely and I think he will have to get used to playing with discomfort at a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Baker will be exposed playing on the right side. He's not used to it and so doesn't see things. He should have got across to their player for the equaliser much quicker and would have done if it was on the left. I thought him and Atkinson were too far apart. Atkinson is clearly a very good player but is young and having Baker one side of him and JD leaving his position all the time did not help him. Teams will exploit our left sid e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Just now, Marco the red said: Well maybe it is due to injuries. He is neat and tidy and good defensively, but needs to offer more going forward. Amazing statement. Completely opposite to every other criticism I have seen of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 29 minutes ago, Red Alert said: Just hope Baker can offer 100% availability throughout season That’s the massive risk though, isn’t it - especially if Kalas departs. In the space of 10 minutes in the second half we saw why. Not a million miles from a straight red. Then a flying header for a 50/50 ball at boot level. He got away with both, and the latter was a brave interception, but on another day………. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 58 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said: Is that not the case with ANY centre back pairing? The better the striker the harder it is for the defender!!! True but neither have much pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGBjammy Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 So was Kalas left out the starting lineup today because he started training later? Or tactical reasons? Or transfer reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 14 minutes ago, YGBjammy said: So was Kalas left out the starting lineup today because he started training later? Or tactical reasons? Or transfer reasons? A bit of all three I would guess. Late back to training after the Euros, plus Pearson seems to like both Baker and Atkinson. Finally of those 3, Kalas definitely has the most resale value, given that he is the international, had a good Euros and is probably on the highest wages. There are 2 problems with all of this though. Baker is not naturally a right-sided centre back. Plus his injury record is awful and no reason to think it would suddenly get better this season. If we sell Kalas, and Baker gets injured, we are down to either Vyner or Cundy at centre back with Atkinson, and that is not a prospect that fills me with confidence at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Robin Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 I was really happy with Atkinson's performance. Thought he looked solid defensively, strong in the air, and very comfortable on the ball. Pretty much what I'd hoped for from him, but I was pleasantly surprised that he was able to display it in his very first championship game. Baker was his usual self - strong, brave, and combative. I don't have any major complaints about Baker's performance, but still feel Kalas is the better option. Kalas just offers a bit more athleticism and composure on the ball for me. A Kalas/Atkinson partnership also gives you a bit more balance with a right-footer and left-footer. IMHO, Kalas and Atkinson has the potential to be a brilliant pairing at this level. Nothing against Baker though, he's still a good option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy Red Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 I think Baker and Atkinson compliment each other pretty well and the only problem is that they are both left footed. Atkinson will prove to be a good signing and i'm sure his value will rise over the next few years. If we receive a decent offer for Kalas, i would cash in and improve the forward areas of the squad. I think we would need to bring another centre back in, but that could be a free agent/loan with any money going towards an attacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 37 minutes ago, YGBjammy said: So was Kalas left out the starting lineup today because he started training later? Or tactical reasons? Or transfer reasons? He’s not first choice any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted August 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Just now, Robbored said: He’s not first choice any longer. I believe that’s just wild speculation until it appears on the OS. I’d have thought better of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgy Red Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Marco the red said: If Kalas went we would need another centre back who is championship ready - can't rely on Baker due to fitness plus back up options aren't good enough. I completely agree. We would need to bring in another Champ ready centre back but i'm sure there will be plenty of loans/free agents available. It appears that Nige is happy to pick a team without Kalas in it, so i think its likely he will move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGBjammy Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, Edgy Red said: I completely agree. We would need to bring in another Champ ready centre back but i'm sure there will be plenty of loans/free agents available. It appears that Nige is happy to pick a team without Kalas in it, so i think its likely he will move on. That's a good point. In my head he is essential but apparently not in Pearson's. If we sell him we might then have cash to spend on a striker, then get a CB in on loan maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 Webster wasn’t an aggressive header of the ball either….similar tendencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted August 7, 2021 Report Share Posted August 7, 2021 To be honest I think both Baker and Kalas ate better defenders, If we were to go back to 1990 and have a sweeper Atkinson would be awesome. I think we are going to see some major mistakes from Atkinson when up against better players than he was up against today, his body shape looked all wrong to me when defending. That said he did what he had to do today, and if he continues to do that even if his body shape looks wrong great. It's one game it's hard to judge. Plenty of positives but some concerns, it's all a learning curve for him at the moment. I think he is one we may have to be patient with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 Right foot-left foot...Kalas-Atkinson IMO. Baker a more than useful first reserve. Kalas can perhaps play a bit higher than we've deployed him in recent times, interceptions stat v Norwich in December 2018- had the most on the pitch, think of him v Baker, he'd be better suited to a higher line personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 8 hours ago, Marco the red said: Issue Is thd full backs, vyner learning and dasilva has been a huge disappointment despite injuries since turning loan into permanent deal. What are you on about Dasilva when playing is an incredible talent playing in an average championship side is not dasilva's responsibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 9 hours ago, Dr Balls said: A bit of all three I would guess. Late back to training after the Euros, plus Pearson seems to like both Baker and Atkinson. Finally of those 3, Kalas definitely has the most resale value, given that he is the international, had a good Euros and is probably on the highest wages. There are 2 problems with all of this though. Baker is not naturally a right-sided centre back. Plus his injury record is awful and no reason to think it would suddenly get better this season. If we sell Kalas, and Baker gets injured, we are down to either Vyner or Cundy at centre back with Atkinson, and that is not a prospect that fills me with confidence at this level. Has Taylor Moore left the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 25 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Has Taylor Moore left the club? Someone overheard a conversation at the Yate game that alluded to him being transferred, so as far as OTIB is concerned, yes he is no longer a City player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Right foot-left foot...Kalas-Atkinson IMO. Baker a more than useful first reserve. Kalas can perhaps play a bit higher than we've deployed him in recent times, interceptions stat v Norwich in December 2018- had the most on the pitch, think of him v Baker, he'd be better suited to a higher line personally. Interesting that we played a much higher line with Baker and Atkinson than we did with Kalas (last season). Was one if the positives for me. Atkinson had a very assured debut, I’m sure he will have his moments too, but I would have no issue with any 2 from 3. Not sure I’d be saying Baker is first reserve until I’ve seen more of Atkinson. Baker was solid again today, as he was v Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Interesting that we played a much higher line with Baker and Atkinson than we did with Kalas (last season). Totally agree. For me, Kalas always plays too deep, which he also does for his country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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