Supporters Club & Trust Statement: Taking The Knee (Merged)

[spudski]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

I think the knee gesture has been over used that it is almost meaningless. Let me explain, the reason why they did it is of course important. Racism obviously should not be a part of anyone’s job, or lives.

But right now players warm up, come out for the match, take the knee and the game kicks off. It’s become routine, just something they do before the match. I don’t know what can be done to add to the gesture.

Bristol Bears don’t take the knee but stand it a formation that is heart shaped. I think that looked more professional and respectful. Maybe yesterday when the players were all in a line together it seemed to have more meaning of togetherness. Usually they are in their positions just waiting for kick off and it seems just a quick gesture, something they have to do.

Personally of course I didn’t boo, but I didn’t clap either. The Supporters Trust have drawn attention to this and I think that will have a negative impact. The people that booed have got the attention and will possibly do it more. They won’t like to be told by some people, with no authority as far as they are concerned, what they can or can’t do. 

Maybe ive been lucky but it’s been years and years since I’ve heard racial abuse at AG. We’ve got our house in order, please don’t take a backwards step.

I agree with your sentiments.

Wilfred Zaha and Ivan Toney also think the same. That's why they won't take the knee.

Taking the Knee started well before the Floyd killing and BLM marches.

However...Sky TV got on the bandwagon not long after that saga...using the BLM logo with its pundits and advertising. It snowballed from that.

We all get that the players are kneeling for solidarity not in support for BLM as an organisation.

However...it's divisive. 

What was wrong with kick racism out of sport? Did anyone boo that?

Why the need to keep something that is divisive? Regardless of facts.

Who's behind the scenes pushing it?

It was the players originally.

Some people high up in Sky and FA made these decisions.

I don't understand why the message cannot be given in a manner that is not divisive. Just like the Rugger lads.

I do air on the views held by Toney and Zaha though...as in it's a kop out. Symbolic. 

Getting players to kneel gives authorities the excuse that they tried.

I'd rather see players walk off the pitch and games abandoned.

Abusive fans banned. 

Take action not just symbolism.

The fact racism has gone up noticeably since this took hold speaks volumes.

It's just creating division.

Create enough if it...then you'll get new orders put in place. That's how it seems to work these days.

[QuedgeRed]

Whatever stance against disgusting racism the footballers take is fine with everyone except those disgusting racists

[Spud55]

41 minutes ago, italian dave said:

On your first comment about MLK praying, that's precisely the point though: when Colin Kaepernick first knelt he was very clear that he'd chosen that gesture because it was a respectful gesture. It's associated with prayer, with genuflection, with marriage proposal and so on. He chose that, rather than salutes or turning his back or walking out precisely because it came from that place.

And whoever and however its been used since, it's his gesture as a sportsman that is the context for it being used by sportsman still today - that's the context, not BLM. (As the players statement confirmed).

To be fair he didn't, he was initially sitting during the anthem and after a conversation with a iirc marine vet where he explained his reasoning and the result of this discussion was that he Kneel as a way to not "Disrespect" the anthem and instead make a respectful and thus meaningful stand against rascism and injustice. 

But that is somewhat of an aside and I agree with everything else. 

[Mattredrobin]

I had one guy infront of me turn his back on it when the players took to the knee and gave me a dirty look when i was clapping was'nt to sure how to react to that tbh. 

[QuedgeRed]

8 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

George Floyd's murder sparked a global protest against racism, that's true.

Footballers are not kneeling to him, to BLM, to Marxism or any of the other nonsense that is used as an excuse by people booing their own players.

Exactly, a thinly veiled excuse by racists or those supporting racism

[LondonBristolian]

5 minutes ago, Mattredrobin said:

I had one guy infront of me turn his back on it when the players took to the knee and gave me a dirty look when i was clapping was'nt to sure how to react to that tbh. 

I get why that would be difficult to deal with but the bottom line is it is none of his business whether you clap or not. If he has an issue with that, he should be keeping it to himself, not trying to intimidate others into feeling uncomfortable on his account.

[Mattredrobin]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I get why that would be difficult to deal with but the bottom line is it is none of his business whether you clap or not. If he has an issue with that, he should be keeping it to himself, not trying to intimidate others into feeling uncomfortable on his account.

 I was just shocked to see someone turn round huff fold his arms and look digusted at the whole thing. Obviously don't know the guy or his thoughts on taking the knee but did'nt come across very well to me.

[Red_Alligator]

Un-bend the knee. Immediately. 

All lives matter and are precious.

[James54De]

It’s amazing that these topics always manage to bring out the posters who seem completely incapable of using punctuation correctly, or at all. 

[BigTone]

1 minute ago, James54De said:

It’s amazing that these topics always manage to bring out the posters whom seem completely incapable of using punctuation correctly. 

Why", so !,?

[Gumpster1]

Enbarassing that some boo taking the knee. If for some perverse reason you dont like it then keep quiet and respect the fact that the majority of people in the ground disagree with discrimination. 

Embarassing as coming from the same idiots who passionately believe in their ‘rights’ Like standing even if it blocks the view of others, swearing even if there are little kids nearby, ignoring  their allocated seats at away games etc. They want to do as they please, but never give a thought about how it impacts on others.

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

If someone boos a player because he misses an easy chance or makes a mistake, they are booing that action. But they are also booing the player. The separation you're trying to invent does not exist. The small minority might have been booing an action of taking the knee but they were also booing the players. The idea that booing something a player is doing is somehow not actually booing a player is a thoroughly ridiculous argument. 

We have been here before.

You have powers that allow you to see into peoples minds so you can ascertain exactly what they were thinking. I do not. I can seperate the actions. I won't claim that all are this or that, and will accept there can be nuance versus the sweeping their all racists. That is what the Bristol City Supporters trust are doing without engaging with any of the fans responsible. That is plainly wrong. 

I believe the overwhelming majority, our all as City fans is that we are not racist. We as fans would support an entire team of Eskimos in red, anything in red. I believe that we all have common ground but common ground amongst fans in football is soured by the introduction of this alien and divisive gesture.

  

 

 

 

[Gumpster1]

How can wanting everyone to be treated fairly and for discrimination to end, be a “divisive” gesture.

It's unifying.

[Maltshoveller]

41 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I get why that would be difficult to deal with but the bottom line is it is none of his business whether you clap or not. If he has an issue with that, he should be keeping it to himself, not trying to intimidate others into feeling uncomfortable on his account.

Just a question

If it is none of his business whether you clap or not

Why is it any bodies business if somebody boos or not?

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

We have been here before.

You have powers that allow you to see into peoples minds so you can ascertain exactly what they were thinking. I do not. I can seperate the actions. I won't claim that all are this or that, and will accept there can be nuance versus the sweeping their all racists. That is what the Bristol City Supporters trust are doing without engaging with any of the fans responsible. That is plainly wrong. 

I believe the overwhelming majority, our all as City fans is that we are not racist. We as fans would support an entire team of Eskimos in red, anything in red. I believe that we all have common ground but common ground amongst fans in football is soured by the introduction of this alien and divisive gesture.

  

 

 

 

In actual fact, the power I have is the ability to see people's actions and ascertain what they are actually doing. I'm not the least bit interested in whether the people booing taking the knee are racist or not. It isn't that important. Ultimately what matters is not what you believe but what you actually do. Anyone who has had access to the internet or media over the last few months knows that footballers are kneeling as anti-racist gesture, rather than out of solidarity with Marxism, and also knows that people who boo taking the knee are perceived by the players, fans and the general public as opposing that anti-racist gesture.

Ultimately, if you publicly oppose an anti-racist gesture, some people are going to conclude that you are racist. That may be true or may be false. But what actually matters is the players on the pitch know they are carrying out an action to show their opposition to racism and they are being booed for doing so. I suspect it matters very little to black players being booed whilst kneeling whether the person doing it is actually racist or simply prepared to be perceived as a racist in order to carry out a nuanced critique of their actions that actually has little relationship to why they are actually doing it.

I absolutely agree that the overwhelming majority of Bristol City fans are not racist. But I think it also important to point out the overwhelming majority of Bristol City fans did not boo taking the knee. Many applauded. Others simply stayed silent. There was only a small minority that stamped their feet and demanded attention because they disagreed with it. Which brings us back to the Supporters Trust. The Supporters Trust have a responsibility to represent the majority of fans. Why should the Supporters Trust, or anyone else, be expected to pander to a small minority of fans just because they try to shout the loudest? That's not how democratic societies work and it certainly isn't how Britain works. And I don't think it reflects the values of our club. 

Those who boo need to accept they are a tiny minority and the vast majority of fans have better things to do than pander to the wishes of a small vocal minority who felt the need to drag their political views into a football match. They are far outnumbered by those who just want to support the team. 

[Bristol Rob]

Thanks SCAT for suggesting people are racist. 

And even bigger congratulations on getting your poorly worded statement in the local rag.

What a reputation enhancer.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-supporters-club-issue-5758367

 

[petehinton]

What blows my mind is that people boo it because ‘it’s a BLM movement/Marxist view/bla bla no’ even AFTER the players specifically explain what they’re doing it for. So either people choose to Ignore it or can’t read. 

Or they somehow know the players better than they know themselves, so decide amongst themselves what the players are doing it for?

Ironic really, as I’m sure there’s an almost perfect crossover between people who boo/don’t back the knee & those who blame the ‘woke’ for ruining things/love using the term snowflake/say cancel culture is ruining society etc etc. The irony is beautiful. 

[LondonBristolian]

5 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Just a question

If it is none of his business whether you clap or not

Why is it any bodies business if somebody boos or not?

For a first thing, supporters are there to support the team. It's perfectly reasonable to take a view on people who are doing that that are not supporting the team. 

For a second, booing is a small minority of people trying to draw attention themselves. It's not a part of free speech but a deliberate attempt to drown out and shut down others.

For a third, there is a clear and obvious difference between stating a view on people doing things in general - such as criticising someone booing people taking the knee - or actively trying to make an individual uncomfortable. I do not think people should boo but, whilst I would clap and try to drown the booing out, I'd not actually make eye contact with someone booing and try to make them feel uncomfortable. That's the key difference here. 

[LondonBristolian]

5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Thanks SCAT for suggesting people are racist. 

And even bigger congratulations on getting your poorly worded statement in the local rag.

What a reputation enhancer.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-supporters-club-issue-5758367

 

I think it probably is a reputation enchancer. It shows that - like all clubs - we've got a minority of people who feel the need to shout and draw attention to themselves but that - maybe not like all clubs - the body representing our supporters' opinions is swift to speak out in defence of the values of the majority of the fans.

I don't think anyone inside or outside football will be surprised by a small minority booing taking the knees. I think there will be black fans - and fans in other excluded groups - who'll feel way more comfortable going to the gate knowing the majority of supporters have their back. 

[Gumpster1]

A poster on here has said “It’s divisive and no surprise that racism has increased since taking the knee started”

What kind of society are we living in that an increase in racism can be explained / justified due to the fact that sportsmen and women are engaging in a peaceful gesture against discrimination?

It’s tantamount to saying “keep quiet, accept things as they are...or there will be trouble “

[Cowshed]

10 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Thanks SCAT for suggesting people are racist. 

And even bigger congratulations on getting your poorly worded statement in the local rag.

What a reputation enhancer.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-supporters-club-issue-5758367

 

There are a myriad of charming left wing anti racist sites that may/will pick this up. We as fans will be tarnished unfairly. Good work representing fans there.

10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

In actual fact, the power I have is the ability to see people's actions and ascertain what they are actually doing. I'm not the least bit interested in whether the people booing taking the knee are racist or not. It isn't that important. Ultimately what matters is not what you believe but what you actually do. Anyone who has had access to the internet or media over the last few months knows that footballers are kneeling as anti-racist gesture, rather than out of solidarity with Marxism, and also knows that people who boo taking the knee are perceived by the players, fans and the general public as opposing that anti-racist gesture.

Ultimately, if you publicly oppose an anti-racist gesture, some people are going to conclude that you are racist. That may be true or may be false. But what actually matters is the players on the pitch know they are carrying out an action to show their opposition to racism and they are being booed for doing so. I suspect it matters very little to black players being booed whilst kneeling whether the person doing it is actually racist or simply prepared to be perceived as a racist in order to carry out a nuanced critique of their actions that actually has little relationship to why they are actually doing it.

I absolutely agree that the overwhelming majority of Bristol City fans are not racist. But I think it also important to point out the overwhelming majority of Bristol City fans did not boo taking the knee. Many applauded. Others simply stayed silent. There was only a small minority that stamped their feet and demanded attention because they disagreed with it. Which brings us back to the Supporters Trust. The Supporters Trust have a responsibility to represent the majority of fans. Why should the Supporters Trust, or anyone else, be expected to pander to a small minority of fans just because they try to shout the loudest? That's not how democratic societies work and it certainly isn't how Britain works. And I don't think it reflects the values of our club. 

Those who boo need to accept they are a tiny minority and the vast majority of fans have better things to do than pander to the wishes of a small vocal minority who felt the need to drag their political views into a football match. They are far outnumbered by those who just want to support the team. 

Britain works on due process. Facts. The Supporters Trust have decided they are the arbiters of what is and what is not racist without facts. Booing people taking the knee does not necessarily make a supporter racist. 

 

 

[TheReds]

58 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

George Floyd's murder sparked a global protest against racism, that's true.

Footballers are not kneeling to him, to BLM, to Marxism or any of the other nonsense that is used as an excuse by people booing their own players.

Footballers started kneeling BECAUSE of his killing, as the likes of SKY, BBC, EPL/EFL, Sports teams, Supermarkets, Companies all jumped on the BLM bandwagon because they are all so virtuous (never really said anything before though). As I said earlier the majority of stadiums had banners and flags covering whole blocks with BLM all over them, banners on the screen throughout the live games etc etc. Yet you think that the slogan was meant to be taken by all and sundry as nothing to do with the BLM Organisation whatsoever because they say so now? 

The stance has completely changed after many of the companies started trying to distance themselves away from BLM after actually seeing what they wanted to achieve, and BLM were getting some bad press. There have been many reports from last year stating that the players were taking the knee because of the BLM Organisation/movement (on BBC/Sky etc), and not simply just for "racial injustice/equality" what they are all seem to be claiming. Plenty of players have also said they are doing it due to the BLM movement. Is there any reason why they would say that, if that's not the reason?

I would also guess people are booing the divisive gesture and not the player himself. 

[Maltshoveller]

7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

For a first thing, supporters are there to support the team. It's perfectly reasonable to take a view on people who are doing that that are not supporting the team. 

For a second, booing is a small minority of people trying to draw attention themselves. It's not a part of free speech but a deliberate attempt to drown out and shut down others.

For a third, there is a clear and obvious difference between stating a view on people doing things in general - such as criticising someone booing people taking the knee - or actively trying to make an individual uncomfortable. I do not think people should boo but, whilst I would clap and try to drown the booing out, I'd not actually make eye contact with someone booing and try to make them feel uncomfortable. That's the key difference here. 

I was not talk about making eye contact

I was just saying if its no bodies business if somebody wants to clap

it is no bodies business if some body wants to boo

As you say making someone  feel uncomfortable is wrong what ever way around

[LondonBristolian]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 

Britain works on due process. Facts. The Supporters Trust have decided they are the arbiters of what is and what is not racist without facts. Booing people taking the knee does not necessarily make a supporter racist. 

 

 

Britia also works on free speech. The Supports Trust have decided they have a right to state a view, which they have done. 

They also having called any supporters racist. They've described their actions as racist. As you were saying just now that you can separate the actions, then I am sure you can tell the difference. And, as you care so much about due process, you should probably report what the Supporters Trust have said accurately. 

[TheReds]

14 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Why should the Supporters Trust, or anyone else, be expected to pander to a small minority of fans just because they try to shout the loudest? That's not how democratic societies work and it certainly isn't how Britain works.

That is exactly how Britain works at the minute. A couple of complaints about pretty much anything and companies crumble, apologise unnecessarily and pander down to the small minority.

You seem to be wanting that the small minority shouldn't be allowed to have a voice, or even be allowed to be heard - I guess it is because you don't agree with their stance. I wonder if you'd say the same if the small minority were clapping and got drowned out by the booing, I think I can guess the answer.

[TheReds]

3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Britia also works on free speech. The Supports Trust have decided they have a right to state a view, which they have done. 

They also having called any supporters racist. They've described their actions as racist. As you were saying just now that you can separate the actions, then I am sure you can tell the difference. And, as you care so much about due process, you should probably report what the Supporters Trust have said accurately. 

So they are calling someone's actions racist, but they aren't calling the person doing those actions a racist?

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

There are a myriad of charming left wing anti racist sites that may/will pick this up. We as fans will be tarnished unfairly. Good work representing fans there.

Britain works on due process. Facts. The Supporters Trust have decided they are the arbiters of what is and what is not racist without facts. Booing people taking the knee does not necessarily make a supporter racist. 

Quite right. 

Those that choose to boo are frustrated at what has become an empty gesture. The original impact has worn off. Nothing racial in their decision to boo taking the knee imo.

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, TheReds said:

So they are calling someone's actions racist, but they aren't calling the person doing those actions a racist?

Precisely. The difference is important. 

[A Darkwood Red]

1 hour ago, Red_Alligator said:

Un-bend the knee. Immediately. 

All lives matter and are precious.

Of course but until all lives matter equally all lives don't.

[AshtonGreat]

5 hours ago, IAmNick said:

The "organisation", if you can even call it that, is a different thing to what you're describing though.

It's like how you can be a conservative (the outlook), without being a Conservative (the political party).

I've heard that argument a few times, but it seems a bit daft to me