Supporters Club & Trust Statement: Taking The Knee (Merged)

[Cowshed]

11 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Britia also works on free speech. The Supports Trust have decided they have a right to state a view, which they have done. 

They also having called any supporters racist. They've described their actions as racist. As you were saying just now that you can separate the actions, then I am sure you can tell the difference. And, as you care so much about due process, you should probably report what the Supporters Trust have said accurately. 

The Supporters trust statement its so poorly worded I feel they are accusing fans of being racist. I am not the only poster in the thread who has interpreted their statement in that manner. You feel the Trust mean fans actions were racist. Which ever way you want to spin that to accuse fans of racist actions/being racist is deeply unfair. The Trust should consider more carefully the impact of their words.

 

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, TheReds said:

That is exactly how Britain works at the minute. A couple of complaints about pretty much anything and companies crumble, apologise unnecessarily and pander down to the small minority.

You seem to be wanting that the small minority shouldn't be allowed to have a voice, or even be allowed to be heard - I guess it is because you don't agree with their stance. I wonder if you'd say the same if the small minority were clapping and got drowned out by the booing, I think I can guess the answer.

I'm not sure why you are making assumptions about what I want or don't want. People have free will and live in a free country. They can boo if they want to. However they also need to accept that others are free to have opinions on their actions. People are free to choose to boo but others are free to draw conclusions about them based on that booing.

And, as I say, I also don't think society ought to pander to whoever shouts the loudest. People can boo if they want to but they shouldn't have an expectation the fact they are booing will dictate what others do. Most people learn as children that throwing a tantrum isn't the way to get what you want and I think it sends out the wrong message if people change their actions just because a small minority are booing. 

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

The Supporters trust statement its so poorly worded I feel they are accusing fans of being racist. I am not the only poster in the thread who has interpreted their statement in that manner. You feel the Trust mean fans actions were racist. Which ever way you want to spin that to accuse fans of racist actions/being racist is deeply unfair. The Trust should consider more carefully the impact of their words.

 

You seem very selective about who does and does not have to consider the impact of their words and actions. 

I'd understand if you felt the Supporters Trust had to consider how their words impacted on supporters who were booing AND you felt that those who were booing had to consider the impact of their actions on their players and other fans.

I'd also understand if you felt that supporters should be free to boo without worrying about what the players think, other supporters should be free to judge them on their booing however they saw fit and the Supporters Trust should be free to put out statements without worrying about if they upset people.

But you seem to believe some people have to be careful and avoid upsetting others and others don't have to be careful and can use others if they want to. It's a confusing position. 

[Cowshed]

3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

You seem very selective about who does and does not have to consider the impact of their words and actions. 

I'd understand if you felt the Supporters Trust had to consider how their words impacted on supporters who were booing AND you felt that those who were booing had to consider the impact of their actions on their players and other fans.

I'd also understand if you felt that supporters should be free to boo without worrying about what the players think, other supporters should be free to judge them on their booing however they saw fit and the Supporters Trust should be free to put out statements without worrying about if they upset people.

But you seem to believe some people have to be careful and avoid upsetting others and others don't have to be careful and can use others if they want to. It's a confusing position. 

I think the Trust as a representative body for BCFC fans should not be lying. Bristol City fans are not racist. 

[Spud55]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Quite right. 

Those that choose to boo are frustrated at what has become an empty gesture. The original impact has worn off. Nothing racial in their decision to boo taking the knee imo.

Ah so actually the most verhment anti racists? I've seen you spout some utter shite on this site over the years but this is the biggest load of shit you have ever posted. 

Nobody who boos is doing so because they feel its an empty gesture, while I disagree people like Spudski and others have raised absolutely valid points wondering if it is actually achieving anything at all and is it just an empty gesture, I would argue until there are no racists left spouting their shite that it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. 

But equally if you feel it's an empty gesture then you aren't going to boo, you will at most ignore the whole thing and go about your business. 

Anyone who is against the taking of the knee enough to boo is not someone who thinks that it's all a bit pointless, they are either unaware or ignore why the players have said thay are doing it, or are just genuinely soft enough in the head to think that being against discrimination is a bad thing. 

[QuedgeRed]

Booing football players who are taking the knee to show support against racism in the sport they play is racist!

Any excuse to do so based on what’s previously happened in the US is bullshit and is a very thinly veiled excuse.

[bcfc01]

9 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

Ah so actually the most verhment anti racists? I've seen you spout some utter shite on this site over the years but this is the biggest load of shit you have ever posted. 

Nobody who boos is doing so because they feel its an empty gesture, while I disagree people like Spudski and others have raised absolutely valid points wondering if it is actually achieving anything at all and is it just an empty gesture, I would argue until there are no racists left spouting their shite that it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. 

But equally if you feel it's an empty gesture then you aren't going to boo, you will at most ignore the whole thing and go about your business. 

Anyone who is against the taking of the knee enough to boo is not someone who thinks that it's all a bit pointless, they are either unaware or ignore why the players have said thay are doing it, or are just genuinely soft enough in the head to think that being against discrimination is a bad thing. 

Or, as I said earlier in the thread, the vast majority have absolutely no ******* clue why they are booing.

[Gumpster1]

21 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Quite right. 

Those that choose to boo are frustrated at what has become an empty gesture. The original impact has worn off. Nothing racial in their decision to boo taking the knee imo.

I’ve heard it all now! People boo taking the knee because it has become an empty gesture, lacking impact.

Presumably those booing favour more radical anti-discrimination measures, marches, sit in protests, statue toppling etc?

If someone we broadly agree with has lost its impact, we boo it?

[Redinthehead]

30 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The Supporters trust statement its so poorly worded I feel they are accusing fans of being racist. I am not the only poster in the thread who has interpreted their statement in that manner. You feel the Trust mean fans actions were racist. Which ever way you want to spin that to accuse fans of racist actions/being racist is deeply unfair. The Trust should consider more carefully the impact of their words.

 

Where in the statement are you getting this from? It doesn’t accuse anyone of being a racist and talks about a minority.

 

[TheReds]

8 minutes ago, QuedgeRed said:

Booing football players who are taking the knee to show support against racism in the sport they play is racist!

Any excuse to do so based on what’s previously happened in the US is bullshit and is a very thinly veiled excuse.

Maybe you should have a word with the BBC? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/53087319

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53085409

Black Lives Matter: Raheem Sterling says players kneeling was 'massive step'

Premier League players kneel in Black Lives Matter solidarity

Manchester City's Raheem Sterling said it was a "massive step" that players took a knee in support of the Black Lives Matter movement on the opening night of the Premier League's return.

Players and staff from Aston Villa, Sheffield United, Manchester City and Arsenal knelt as their matches began.

Match officials also took part, on a night players' names on shirts were replaced with 'Black Lives Matter'.

"It shows we're going in the right direction," Sterling told Sky Sports.

"Little by little we're seeing change. It was natural, it was organic. We saw the teams do it in the earlier kick-off and thought it was something we had to do as well."

• Football Daily: The Premier League takes a knee, and the 'ghost goal'

The Premier League was returning after a 100-day hiatus because of the coronavirus pandemic.

And players and officials showed their support for the movement for racial equality following the death of George Floyd in the United States last month.

Floyd, a 46-year-old unarmed black man, died as a white police officer held a knee on his neck for nearly nine minutes. His death sparked protests around the world.

'I feel really bad' - Guardiola on racial inequality

A joint statement issued by Villa and Sheffield United shortly after their match began said they "were proud to stand in solidarity" with the actions of their players and coaching staff in "expressing our collective support for the Black Lives Matter movement".

Both clubs said they hoped they had sent "a strong message of unity" and amplified "the many messages of support from Premier League players and the wider football family".

Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola added: "White people should say sorry for the way we have treated black people for 400 years. I am ashamed of what we have done to black people around the world.

"It is not only in the USA where it has happened. The problem is everywhere.

"Maybe for our generation it is too late but for the following generations, they can understand the only race is ourselves. We are human beings. It doesn't matter the colour of our skin."

[RedRock]

28 minutes ago, petehinton said:

What blows my mind is that people boo it because ‘it’s a BLM movement/Marxist view/bla bla no’ even AFTER the players specifically explain what they’re doing it for. So either people choose to Ignore it or can’t read. 

Or they somehow know the players better than they know themselves, so decide amongst themselves what the players are doing it for?

Ironic really, as I’m sure there’s an almost perfect crossover between people who boo/don’t back the knee & those who blame the ‘woke’ for ruining things/love using the term snowflake/say cancel culture is ruining society etc etc. The irony is beautiful. 

Free speech is the bedrock of our society.

I wouldn’t be so glib about the ‘cancel culture’. If that culture gains traction as it appears to be doing, whether it be from a religious, political or cultural standpoint, I fear for the outcome. You only need to look at the likes of China and Iran to see what’s created.

There tends to be a reaction, against an action - particularly one that ‘shuts down’ opposing views. In human society that reaction is often brutal and frequently exercised against minorities. 
 

Going back to ‘the knee’ we need to have an open debate about culturalism, the concept of nationhood, adoption of common principles and values… but unfortunately our society is not grown up enough to do that and prefers the adoption of superficial gestures imported from the US.

I don’t support taking the knee, but wouldn’t boo it. As someone else has said in this thread, I do support everyone’s right to respond to the gesture as they wish in a non-violent or threatening way. 

[Robbored]

14 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

Ah so actually the most verhment anti racists? I've seen you spout some utter shite on this site over the years but this is the biggest load of shit you have ever posted. 

Nobody who boos is doing so because they feel its an empty gesture, while I disagree people like Spudski and others have raised absolutely valid points wondering if it is actually achieving anything at all and is it just an empty gesture, I would argue until there are no racists left spouting their shite that it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. 

But equally if you feel it's an empty gesture then you aren't going to boo, you will at most ignore the whole thing and go about your business. 

Anyone who is against the taking of the knee enough to boo is not someone who thinks that it's all a bit pointless, they are either unaware or ignore why the players have said thay are doing it, or are just genuinely soft enough in the head to think that being against discrimination is a bad thing. 

Thanks quite a rant Spud………..

I think you’re missing my point……I couldn’t give one iota if players choose to take the knee - that’s their choice. It means nothing to me, it’s doesn’t effect me in any way. In other words - I don’t care either way.

In my view some fans get frustrated with it and that’s why they boo. I seriously doubt that there any racist overtones behind the booing.

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Gumpster1 said:

I’ve heard it all now! People boo taking the knee because it has become an empty gesture, lacking impact.

Presumably those booing favour more radical anti-discrimination measures, marches, sit in protests, statue toppling etc?

 

Spot on.

[Port Said Red]

9 hours ago, Redandproud said:

No the club told the players to take the knee,it should be optional,, the players should have a choice, personally I think this has gone on long enough, 

 

9 hours ago, Marco the red said:

Really which player told you that? Or are you just making it up.

 

9 hours ago, Redandproud said:

It was stated by the club on their website during the week,LOOK, 

 

9 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/city-to-take-the-knee-against-discrimination/ 

Where does it state 'the players are told to take the knee'?

 

9 hours ago, View from the Dolman said:

It says no such thing. Absolute out and out lie.

 

9 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

In Redandprowed's head

I seem to remember that the OP also claimed that this statement

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12016/12325525/gareth-southgate-says-england-squad-are-totally-united-in-continuing-to-take-a-knee-at-euro-2020

meant that Southgate had told the England players to take the knee, against their will.

[IAmNick]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Thanks quite a rant Spud………..

I think you’re missing my point……I couldn’t give one iota if players choose to take the knee - that’s their choice. It means nothing to me, it’s doesn’t effect me in any way. In other words - I don’t care either way.

In my view some fans get frustrated with it and that’s why they boo. I seriously doubt that there any racist overtones behind the booing.

Are they frustrated with it because it's an empty gesture (presumably that means not having an impact)? Or because they want politics out of sport?

Do they want bigger or more impactful gestures, or none at all in your opinion?

[Pezo]

So just to get this right for my own sanity and applying some rather large assumptions, less than 0.1% (so about 14 people out of 14000 - not that I heard any) of fans booed, of which most are probably associating it with BLM, violent protest, defunding the police ect but aren't actually racist. So maybe a total of 6 actual racists, does that seem like reasonable estimates based on what other people heard? 

Let's face it at there height the BNP and national front never even got a look in at Ashton Gate and now is no different for any racist group.

[RedLionLad]

1 minute ago, Pezo said:

So just to get this right for my own sanity and applying some rather large assumptions, less than 0.1% (so about 14 people out of 14000 - not that I heard any) of fans booed, of which most are probably associating it with BLM, violent protest, defunding the police ect but aren't actually racist. So maybe a total of 6 actual racists, does that seem like reasonable estimates based on what other people heard? 

Let's face it at there height the BNP and national front never even got a look in at Ashton Gate and now is no different for any racist group.

Isn’t City fans singing ‘sheep sh&ggers’ to Cardiff and Swansea fans also deemed to be racist?

That’s usually a few more than 14 taking part.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Are they frustrated with it because it's an empty gesture 

That’s my take on it. 

[QuedgeRed]

17 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Maybe you should have a word with the BBC? 

It really doesn’t matter to me, I know why the players are taking the action, and so should every football supporter.

I’m calling the booing out for what it is. Racist.

[swanker]

The funny thing about this thread is that I went to the game yesterday and totally missed the players taking the knee and any booing or clapping. I must have been so excited about the game starting and the Terry Cooper thing that I didn’t notice it. 

Silly me, I do have my head in the clouds sometimes

[BS2 Red]

1 hour ago, TheReds said:

Footballers started kneeling BECAUSE of his killing, as the likes of SKY, BBC, EPL/EFL, Sports teams, Supermarkets, Companies all jumped on the BLM bandwagon because they are all so virtuous (never really said anything before though). As I said earlier the majority of stadiums had banners and flags covering whole blocks with BLM all over them, banners on the screen throughout the live games etc etc. Yet you think that the slogan was meant to be taken by all and sundry as nothing to do with the BLM Organisation whatsoever because they say so now? 

The stance has completely changed after many of the companies started trying to distance themselves away from BLM after actually seeing what they wanted to achieve, and BLM were getting some bad press. There have been many reports from last year stating that the players were taking the knee because of the BLM Organisation/movement (on BBC/Sky etc), and not simply just for "racial injustice/equality" what they are all seem to be claiming. Plenty of players have also said they are doing it due to the BLM movement. Is there any reason why they would say that, if that's not the reason?

I would also guess people are booing the divisive gesture and not the player himself. 

When George Floyd was murdered, a worldwide protest started. But the protest was against racism, Floyd was just the spark.

Black Lives Matter is a phrase that pre-dates any of the organisations (there are more than one) that use it as their name.  Clubs/players/people at the start were using the phrase, a lot of them dropped it when the BLM organisations gained more prominence than the phrase itself. 

The players have told you why they are kneeling. The football clubs have told you. The FA have told you.

You are free to ignore all of the evidence and decide it all means something else. But you are very very wrong.

[Cowshed]

14 minutes ago, Pezo said:

So just to get this right for my own sanity and applying some rather large assumptions, less than 0.1% (so about 14 people out of 14000 - not that I heard any) of fans booed, of which most are probably associating it with BLM, violent protest, defunding the police ect but aren't actually racist. So maybe a total of 6 actual racists, does that seem like reasonable estimates based on what other people heard? 

Let's face it at there height the BNP and national front never even got a look in at Ashton Gate and now is no different for any racist group.

You may be interested in threads in the politics section. Bristol City lads have a fine tradition of anti racism. The British movement as the National fronts street fighters in the eighties targettede Bristol at football and gigs. They were fought and that is fought and opposed fiercely by Bristol City lads black and white.

There is no difference now .. Only there is. BLM is viewed very dimly by quite a few people of the the same anti racist anti extremist mindset. 

[spudski]

Does anyone stop to think how all these things start and escalate?

Everything that we read or watch via media or social media from organisations, has a team behind it, the hierarchy, decide what is going to be reported on daily, and what slant is going to be given on it.

It continues, and comes into the public psychi. Then the public make their own options based on what they read and are being fed.

Keep watching the same feed, and how they choose to report it, and before you know it, you're convinced it's 100% true.

Before Floyd and kneeling did anyone honestly feel that we had a massive racist problem in this country? It exists...but not to the extent that's been made out. 

A minority will raise their ugly heads, and because social media is global it looks massive. 

The majority of people on the planet imo, are decent human beings.

Yet we give time to the minority and let them dictate what's important in life.

The past couple years...covid and racism have been the main media topic.

What happened to ISIS and terrorism, wars, immigration...all of a sudden they literally disappeared overnight. Funny that.

It seems as human beings we've been indoctrinised into literally reacting to everything in the present mainstream and literally forget and question why other things have literally disappeared being reported on.

Everything is controlled...nothing is done by accident.

We are all being controlled to start being more obedient and less questioning, even if it doesn't make sense, and everything seems divisive and non sensical. 

Do as we say...even if it doesn't make sense or we don't abide by it ourselves. That's the common mantra.

This kneeling isn't just something cobbled together...it's pre planned with an agenda behind it.

All hidden behind a good cause in theory.

[The Hustler]

55 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Footballers started kneeling BECAUSE of his killing, as the likes of SKY, BBC, EPL/EFL, Sports teams, Supermarkets, Companies all jumped on the BLM bandwagon because they are all so virtuous (never really said anything before though). As I said earlier the majority of stadiums had banners and flags covering whole blocks with BLM all over them, banners on the screen throughout the live games etc etc. Yet you think that the slogan was meant to be taken by all and sundry as nothing to do with the BLM Organisation whatsoever because they say so now? 

The stance has completely changed after many of the companies started trying to distance themselves away from BLM after actually seeing what they wanted to achieve, and BLM were getting some bad press. There have been many reports from last year stating that the players were taking the knee because of the BLM Organisation/movement (on BBC/Sky etc), and not simply just for "racial injustice/equality" what they are all seem to be claiming. Plenty of players have also said they are doing it due to the BLM movement. Is there any reason why they would say that, if that's not the reason?

I would also guess people are booing the divisive gesture and not the player himself. 

This 100%. 
 

In the beginning it was a strong message that many supported but has now become such a divisive farce and will do more harm than good in the long run. It’s the same as when Colstons Statue was torn down, which as a Bristolian, I and many others were deeply hurt by. So much so, people who were once extremely liberal and completely anti racism have now lost respect for the movement and agenda all together. It’s has therefore only created a bigger divide - which many will not bow down to.

The Black Lives Matter movement is now the continued result of serial apologists wanting to make themselves feel better on behalf of others, when in fact, they have nothing to be apologetic about. The rest, I would guess, continue to tow the party-line in fear of being non PC and labelled as a racist.

Drop the  “taking the knee” and concentrate on the kick racism out of football campaign. All the good work done to eradicate racism in sport (and life generally) over the past years is desperately close to being undone if the undermining of races other than that of the Black race continues to be rammed down peoples throats.

[Pezo]

Just now, RedLionLad said:

Isn’t City fans singing ‘sheep sh&ggers’ to Cardiff and Swansea fans also deemed to be racist?

That’s usually a few more than 14 taking part.

The watering down/ broadening of the term racist is interesting to me. It used to mean the persecution of a group of people based on there race or ethnicity. I'm not sure shouting sheep shagger at someone would be classed as racist under that definition - it's hardly persecution. 

You can see the expansion of the term in universities and big companies at the moment - if the board of the company/university doesn't have a black person on it then that is branded as a white supremacy and then has the reputational damage that goes along with that until they can appoint a black person - the online trolls completely ignore this is more likely down to population demographics than racism. I was in discussion with someone the other day that said this country is a white male supremacy because the prime minister was white and male - I pointed out that the Queen was head of the state and prime minister essentially worked for her which meant by that definition it was a white matriarchal society and had been there entire life. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

I agree with your sentiments.

Wilfred Zaha and Ivan Toney also think the same. That's why they won't take the knee.

Taking the Knee started well before the Floyd killing and BLM marches.

However...Sky TV got on the bandwagon not long after that saga...using the BLM logo with its pundits and advertising. It snowballed from that.

We all get that the players are kneeling for solidarity not in support for BLM as an organisation.

However...it's divisive. 

What was wrong with kick racism out of sport? Did anyone boo that?

Why the need to keep something that is divisive? Regardless of facts.

Who's behind the scenes pushing it?

It was the players originally.

Some people high up in Sky and FA made these decisions.

I don't understand why the message cannot be given in a manner that is not divisive. Just like the Rugger lads.

I do air on the views held by Toney and Zaha though...as in it's a kop out. Symbolic. 

Getting players to kneel gives authorities the excuse that they tried.

I'd rather see players walk off the pitch and games abandoned.

Abusive fans banned. 

Take action not just symbolism.

The fact racism has gone up noticeably since this took hold speaks volumes.

It's just creating division.

Create enough if it...then you'll get new orders put in place. That's how it seems to work these days.

This is spot on, if it were anything other than taking a knee, I don't think it would bother half as many people.  No matter what your intent it's conflated with so many other things including the BLM marches, Coppernicks purpose in taking the knee was not about racism in the NFL it was about a more systemic problem and what standing for the national anthem meant to him.  It was a broad political statement. 

[Trueredsupporter]

Here in Bristol statues get thrown docks BLM behave as football fans cant and City fans protected the Cenotaph from BLM armed with spray paint. The following week fans from other clubs joined City fans. That is history here. Nobody should be surprised some booed something fans will link to BLM .This Bristol Supporters Club & Trust should have looked at what Millwalls Supporters Club said when Millwall fans booed taking the knee they didnt tar fans as racists they used facts saying in some fans minds there were problems with taking the knee linked to BLM. Millwall changed what fhey did dont take the knee and fans dont boo what they do now. This booing of the knee isnt about racism.

[BS2 Red]

9 minutes ago, The Hustler said:

It’s the same as when Colstons Statue was torn down, which as a Bristolian, I and many others were deeply hurt by. So much so, people who were once extremely liberal and completely anti racism have now lost respect for the movement and agenda all together.

So you were liberal and anti-racist. But got upset over a statue of a slave trader being torn down. And it upset you so much that you've lost all respect for anti-racism movements?

That reminds me of this sarcastic tweet I saw a while ago.

 

[BS2 Red]

1 minute ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Here in Bristol statues get thrown docks BLM behave as football fans cant and City fans protected the Cenotaph from BLM armed with spray paint. 

One statue got thrown in the docks. Not "statues".

And nobody threatened the Cenotaph, let alone spray paint armed BLM.

[AshtonGreat]

28 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

When George Floyd was murdered, a worldwide protest started. But the protest was against racism, Floyd was just the spark.

Black Lives Matter is a phrase that pre-dates any of the organisations (there are more than one) that use it as their name.  Clubs/players/people at the start were using the phrase, a lot of them dropped it when the BLM organisations gained more prominence than the phrase itself. 

The players have told you why they are kneeling. The football clubs have told you. The FA have told you.

You are free to ignore all of the evidence and decide it all means something else. But you are very very wrong.

But is it not also true that all the organisations that call themselves Black Lives Matter have far left leanings?