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Supporters Club & Trust Statement: Taking The Knee (Merged)


Redandproud

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7 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Not sure there's much left to boo.

The time taken 'at knee' yesterday clearly demonstrates it's become a vacant gesture linked to, I'm not sure there's a clear consensus as to what the demonstration is now for? I think the problem for players is with 'the hindsight righteous' looking to cancel anything they deem fit, they lack a way forward without themselves being targeted should they cease from so doing.

In my section of the stand I heard not one conversation as to the relative merit or meaning of what the players and officials were doing or why, only mumblings akin, ' get on with the ****ing game...'

The club literally issued a statement saying what it was for…

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5 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

But is it not also true that all the organisations that call themselves Black Lives Matter have far left leanings?

I haven't checked every single BLM group to discover every single policy/idea that they have.

I'd imagine they were all left leaning, I've no idea if they are all far left though. Plus what one person considers far left will be centrist in other's eyes.

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4 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Here in Bristol statues get thrown docks BLM behave as football fans cant and City fans protected the Cenotaph from BLM armed with spray paint. The following week fans from other clubs joined City fans. That is history here. Nobody should be surprised some booed something fans will link to BLM .This Bristol Supporters Club & Trust should have looked at what Millwalls Supporters Club said when Millwall fans booed taking the knee they didnt tar fans as racists they used facts saying in some fans minds there were problems with taking the knee linked to BLM. Millwall changed what fhey did dont take the knee and fans dont boo what they do now. This booing of the knee isnt about racism.

So we look to Millwall to set the benchmark in anti-discrimination? Joke.

If we take your word that the booing is in no way racially motivated, surely once someone said they interpreted as racist, you would want to stop booing?

If someone told me that something I was doing was upsetting them and open to misinterpretation my first reaction would be to consider whether what I was doing was so important that I needed to continue. Surely those booing could just keep quiet?

 

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10 hours ago, Redandproud said:

No the club told the players to take the knee,it should be optional,, the players should have a choice, personally I think this has gone on long enough, 

If you think kneeling has gone on long enough, wait until you find out how long racism has gone on for!

9 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Where did the booing come from?

The racists.

9 hours ago, Redland said:

I go to the football for enjoyment (hopefully) entertainment and recreation. I do not go to watch a party political broadcast on behalf of BLM or indeed any other organisation. It is ridiculous for the players and media  to claim that taking the knee is nothing to do with BLM when the gesture is indelibly linked to that particular organisation. I am sure that the majority of those that boo are not racist but simply do not wish to be associated with the BLM agenda of defunding the police, ending capitalism etc.

What's wrong with defunding the police and pushing back against capitalism?

8 hours ago, Redandproud said:

There's to that word again"RACISTS", Im not, but I think it's gone on long enough, 2yrs, and it happened in America not here, how much longer does it go on, 

As long as racism does hopefully.

8 hours ago, Busterrimes said:

My reasoning is I don’t believe it to be effective. The longer it goes on the less people take notice. Personally I believe that it has now lost its impact. 

Less people take notice? We're currently ten pages deep where if they hadn't kneeled there would be no topic on the subject.

7 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Didn’t hear a thing . Something to moan about though I suppose ?

Might need a hearing aid.

7 hours ago, Yoyo2345 said:

Don't moan if people have an opinion on people taking the knee, if I was there I would of booed. This is football playing with politics a dangerous game.

How is it dangerous? Also "would have" not "would of". Maybe if you were better educated you wouldn't feel the need to boo.

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6 hours ago, BS2 Red said:

Interesting that you think the same people that voted Brexit & Tory are those that boo anti-racism gestures.....

Not all Brexit voters boo anti-racism but all people booing anti-racism are Brexit voters.

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24 minutes ago, spudski said:

Does anyone stop to think how all these things start and escalate?

Everything that we read or watch via media or social media from organisations, has a team behind it, the hierarchy, decide what is going to be reported on daily, and what slant is going to be given on it.

It continues, and comes into the public psychi. Then the public make their own options based on what they read and are being fed.

Keep watching the same feed, and how they choose to report it, and before you know it, you're convinced it's 100% true.

Before Floyd and kneeling did anyone honestly feel that we had a massive racist problem in this country? It exists...but not to the extent that's been made out. 

A minority will raise their ugly heads, and because social media is global it looks massive. 

The majority of people on the planet imo, are decent human beings.

Yet we give time to the minority and let them dictate what's important in life.

The past couple years...covid and racism have been the main media topic.

What happened to ISIS and terrorism, wars, immigration...all of a sudden they literally disappeared overnight. Funny that.

It seems as human beings we've been indoctrinised into literally reacting to everything in the present mainstream and literally forget and question why other things have literally disappeared being reported on.

Everything is controlled...nothing is done by accident.

We are all being controlled to start being more obedient and less questioning, even if it doesn't make sense, and everything seems divisive and non sensical. 

Do as we say...even if it doesn't make sense or we don't abide by it ourselves. That's the common mantra.

This kneeling isn't just something cobbled together...it's pre planned with an agenda behind it.

All hidden behind a good cause in theory.

So your take is that BLM and racism being brought to the forefront has actually... made people more obedient and less questioning?

I would literally say the opposite. Many people are realising the systematic issues and power structures that exist in our society as a result of it, and trying to affect them in positive ways. That involves in many cases disobedience and questioning what has been widely accepted as "just the way things are" - and that goes beyond riots and the like, extending into poverty, workplaces, and so on.

Surely the reporting to make people "more obedient and less questioning" would not be to highlight huge social injustices, protests, and so on and in fact portray everything as good in the world?

Which powerful organisations in society do you think are controlling this and benefiting from it being highlighted exactly? How does this work cross organisation, or cross country, who is controlling that? Just coincidence that all western countries are doing similar?

Is there a shadowy organisation pulling the strings and wanting to... er... massively highlight and expose systematic racism in... er... the society they've built and controlled for years for some reason? How does that make sense?!

You're acting like the "media" is a monolith. It's just confused thinking.

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12 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Here in Bristol statues get thrown docks BLM behave as football fans cant and City fans protected the Cenotaph from BLM armed with spray paint. The following week fans from other clubs joined City fans. That is history here. Nobody should be surprised some booed something fans will link to BLM .This Bristol Supporters Club & Trust should have looked at what Millwalls Supporters Club said when Millwall fans booed taking the knee they didnt tar fans as racists they used facts saying in some fans minds there were problems with taking the knee linked to BLM. Millwall changed what fhey did dont take the knee and fans dont boo what they do now. This booing of the knee isnt about racism.

 

14 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Here in Bristol statues get thrown docks BLM behave as football fans cant and City fans protected the Cenotaph from BLM armed with spray paint. The following week fans from other clubs joined City fans. That is history here. Nobody should be surprised some booed something fans will link to BLM .This Bristol Supporters Club & Trust should have looked at what Millwalls Supporters Club said when Millwall fans booed taking the knee they didnt tar fans as racists they used facts saying in some fans minds there were problems with taking the knee linked to BLM. Millwall changed what fhey did dont take the knee and fans dont boo what they do now. This booing of the knee isnt about racism.

What a load of rubbish, lies and nonsense. I started typing a long reply but honestly, have a read of what you posted and try and see if there’s any evidence for any of it.

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I don't agree with the fact that we have to punctuate home games with meaningless minutes applause for people who have died. You know the ones...”Terry from Hartcliffe lived at number 19 so wouldn't it be nice to clap on the 19th minute?”

I strongly disagree with this happening. I just choose not to clap. I wouldn’t dream of booing though.

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17 minutes ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Here in Bristol statues get thrown docks BLM behave as football fans cant and City fans protected the Cenotaph from BLM armed with spray paint. The following week fans from other clubs joined City fans. That is history here. Nobody should be surprised some booed something fans will link to BLM .This Bristol Supporters Club & Trust should have looked at what Millwalls Supporters Club said when Millwall fans booed taking the knee they didnt tar fans as racists they used facts saying in some fans minds there were problems with taking the knee linked to BLM. Millwall changed what fhey did dont take the knee and fans dont boo what they do now. This booing of the knee isnt about racism.

Maybe those City fans should have spent their time defending the Churchill statue in London that Chelsea trashed instead eh ;)

Do we boo football fans now or...?

 

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33 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

When George Floyd was murdered, a worldwide protest started. But the protest was against racism, Floyd was just the spark.

Black Lives Matter is a phrase that pre-dates any of the organisations (there are more than one) that use it as their name.  Clubs/players/people at the start were using the phrase, a lot of them dropped it when the BLM organisations gained more prominence than the phrase itself. 

The players have told you why they are kneeling. The football clubs have told you. The FA have told you.

You are free to ignore all of the evidence and decide it all means something else. But you are very very wrong.

You are also free to ignore every newspaper, website, social media report stating why they STARTED taking the knee. I am not doubting what they are doing it for now, I am not disbelieving what they are saying for why they are doing it for now, but I just cannot see how you or many others just seem unable to accept that people will always see taking the knee will be forever linked to BLM and Politics. The "that's not the message now" should be ok and accepted and everything else should just be forgotten is never going to happen I'm afraid.

Would you happily believe everything that Starmer, Boris, Corbyn, or any Politician says now, even if they have done a U-Turn from 6 months ago? You would then automatically ignore/forget everything they have previously said and are fine with that, never to be mentioned ever again?

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15 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

The club literally issued a statement saying what it was for…

This time around. Like others. And will again. The statements also morph. And will again. But the gesture remains. 

Society and football is overwhelmingly anti racist but this gesture causes contention. Bristol City supporters have never booed any anti racist action before. Never.

So why now and only this?

What is the stigma around this kneeling gesture?

 

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11 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

I haven't checked every single BLM group to discover every single policy/idea that they have.

I'd imagine they were all left leaning, I've no idea if they are all far left though. Plus what one person considers far left will be centrist in other's eyes.

I was looking at the BLM UK Twitter feed the other day and the stories that caught my eye were one expressing anger that Kill the Bill protesters had been jailed following the riots in Bristol, and several more seemingly suggesting that the 2011 London riots were justified. Both of those are the kind of viewpoints that rile a lot of people – and this is why, I think, there's been discontent over the kneeling. Because at the beginning, it went hand in hand with the BLM slogan.

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2 minutes ago, TheReds said:

You are also free to ignore every newspaper, website, social media report stating why they STARTED taking the knee. I am not doubting what they are doing it for now, I am not disbelieving what they are saying for why they are doing it for now, but I just cannot see how you or many others just seem unable to accept that people will always see taking the knee will be forever linked to BLM and Politics. The "that's not the message now" should be ok and accepted and everything else should just be forgotten is never going to happen I'm afraid.

Would you happily believe everything that Starmer, Boris, Corbyn, or any Politician says now, even if they have done a U-Turn from 6 months ago? You would then automatically ignore/forget everything they have previously said and are fine with that, never to be mentioned ever again?

Where have I ignored anything? I stated why they started taking the knee. George Floyd was murdered, worldwide anti-racism protests started, players copied Colin Kaepernick's knee taking anti-racism gesture and used the phrase (not the organisations) black lives matter. They later dropped the BLM phrase as groups (that took the phrase as a name) gained prominence.

Taking the knee has never had anything to do with the BLM groups. 

 

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Okay, I think we can recap.

1. Some people - for reasons unknown - booed those taking the knee.

2. As per the club statement, players were taking the knee in solidarity with a wide number of social injustices, not specifically racism, although we all acknowledge that the reintroduction of the knee was popularised by sports people and became a symbol of BLM.

3. A large number of people who don't care much for the knee, just ignored it.

4. Some people have such an issue with something they could quietly ignore, they chose to boo.

5. The Supporters Trust need to make it clear in any future statements that their represent their paying members, and no ALL supporters, as aside from a survey every couple of years, where the questions are designed to give them the answer they think they want, they don't overly engage with the wider supporters base. They should also acknowledge the reason the club and players said they were taking the knee before implying those who disagreed were racist.

6. The PA in the Dolman is still shit.

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Just now, AshtonGreat said:

I was looking at the BLM UK Twitter feed the other day and the stories that caught my eye were one expressing anger that Kill the Bill protesters had been jailed following the riots in Bristol, and several more seemingly suggesting that the 2011 London riots were justified. Both of those are the kind of viewpoints that rile a lot of people – and this is why, I think, there's been discontent over the kneeling. Because at the beginning, it went hand in hand with the BLM slogan.

So because a group calls itself BLM, footballers have to change an anti-racism gesture that pre-dates the BLM group?

Huh?

Lots of people associate the Union Flag with the BNP/Britain First. Should we change the flag? 

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2 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

So you were liberal and anti-racist. But got upset over a statue of a slave trader being torn down. And it upset you so much that you've lost all respect for anti-racism movements?

That reminds me of this sarcastic tweet I saw a while ago.

 

You see, this typifies those that have an insular grasp of history - and in particular Bristol’s history.

At the time, slavery, as is still common place now btw - was the major currency for many European countries (and not only the British). It’s part of the ‘worlds’ history as much as the Romans were part of our history.

Colston was one of the chief Merchants liaising between London and Bristol and made huge sums for the Country enabling the growth of the country and empire. However, he was also one of the first to realise (before many other merchants) that what they were doing was wrong and therefore stopped his trading in slaves - hugely against a large majority of other merchants at the time and was a indeed a pioneer in the eventual collapse of the slave trade.. The huge wealth he had accrued, he then chose to give back to Bristol and the people of Bristol as shown in the many things he was responsible for around Bristol. Ultimately, Colston saw what was happening was wrong and decided to give his wealth back.

The problem is, too many people see things as ‘cut and dry’ with the slave trade but the reality is that what happened and is part of history, no more than Nazi Germany is part of Germans history.

So to answer your question, yes I was liberal and anti-racist. However, when people demand that I should apologise for the actions of our ancestors (when they don’t know the full facts anyway), to take a knee and bow down with my tail between my legs, by woke, hippy apologists, then yes, I have lost respect for the anti-racism movement as it is the definition of racism in itself.

 

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19 minutes ago, James54De said:

Is it now a leftist movement to fight against racism across the world? 

Of course not. That's something that everyone (well, the vast majority of us) wants. But not everyone wants to side with organisations with an anti-police, anti-establishment agenda 

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2 minutes ago, The Hustler said:

So to answer your question, yes I was liberal and anti-racist. However, when people demand that I should apologise for the actions of our ancestors (when they don’t know the full facts anyway), to take a knee and bow down with my tail between my legs, by woke, hippy apologists, then yes, I have lost respect for the anti-racism movement as it is the definition of racism in itself.

I'll ignore your "history" lesson.

Nobody has demanded you apologise for the actions of your ancestors.

Nobody has demanded you take a knee.

Very few anti-racists are "woke, hippy apologists".

It's very weird that you are more offended by anti-racism than racism itself.

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5 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

So because a group calls itself BLM, footballers have to change an anti-racism gesture that pre-dates the BLM group?

Huh?

Lots of people associate the Union Flag with the BNP/Britain First. Should we change the flag? 

As others have said, the kneeling at football started at exactly the same that BLM appeared on the shirts, the seats and the Sky branding

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11 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

So your take is that BLM and racism being brought to the forefront has actually... made people more obedient and less questioning?

I would literally say the opposite. Many people are realising the systematic issues and power structures that exist in our society as a result of it, and trying to affect them in positive ways. That involves in many cases disobedience and questioning what has been widely accepted as "just the way things are" - and that goes beyond riots and the like, extending into poverty, workplaces, and so on.

Surely the reporting to make people "more obedient and less questioning" would not be to highlight huge social injustices, protests, and so on and in fact portray everything as good in the world?

Which powerful organisations in society do you think are controlling this and benefiting from it being highlighted exactly? How does this work cross organisation, or cross country, who is controlling that? Just coincidence that all western countries are doing similar?

Is there a shadowy organisation pulling the strings and wanting to... er... massively highlight and expose systematic racism in... er... the society they've built and controlled for years for some reason? How does that make sense?!

You're acting like the "media" is a monolith. It's just confused thinking.

No...you've misunderstood me.

It seems so much is divisive. Dividing people.

Then you have establishments, Governments etc, saying one thing, but ignoring it themselves.

Pretty much everything is grey and often confusing, makes no sense, yet we are still told not to question and obey, regardless of actions.

Pretty much everything being reported on right now, is done in a way that causes division amongst people.

It's making the man on the street fall out with many.

I've never known a time where the average bloke on the street has fallen out with his mates.

Recently...Racism, Covid, Vaccination, illegal immigration, Vac passports, transport, Green and Vegan....it's literally gone mental in the last couple years. Never in my lifetime have I known anything like it.

Hence my questioning everything.

The General public are literally turning on one another...purely based on what they read and watch via media/ TV.

Everyone now is an ' expert' on any subject based in what they read and watch.

It's truly frightening how easy it is to manipulate the public.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Hustler said:

You see, this typifies those that have an insular grasp of history - and in particular Bristol’s history.

At the time, slavery, as is still common place now btw - was the major currency for many European countries (and not only the British). It’s part of the ‘worlds’ history as much as the Romans were part of our history.

Colston was one of the chief Merchants liaising between London and Bristol and made huge sums for the Country enabling the growth of the country and empire. However, he was also one of the first to realise (before many other merchants) that what they were doing was wrong and therefore stopped his trading in slaves - hugely against a large majority of other merchants at the time and was a indeed a pioneer in the eventual collapse of the slave trade.. The huge wealth he had accrued, he then chose to give back to Bristol and the people of Bristol as shown in the many things he was responsible for around Bristol. Ultimately, Colston saw what was happening was wrong and decided to give his wealth back.

The problem is, too many people see things as ‘cut and dry’ with the slave trade but the reality is that what happened and is part of history, no more than Nazi Germany is part of Germans history.

So to answer your question, yes I was liberal and anti-racist. However, when people demand that I should apologise for the actions of our ancestors (when they don’t know the full facts anyway), to take a knee and bow down with my tail between my legs, by woke, hippy apologists, then yes, I have lost respect for the anti-racism movement as it is the definition of racism in itself.

 

You may well be soot on re Bristol history and I agree that today's society should not apologise for things we had no control over. We should however be aware of what happened to ensure that it never happens again.

No one is making you to bow down to anyone. No one is making you take the knee.

As a minimum all that is needed is to respect the fact that the players want to very briefly show that they believe discrimination is wrong.

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1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

As others have said, the kneeling at football started at exactly the same that BLM appeared on the shirts, the seats and the Sky branding

Oh no! Footballers suggested that black lives might actually matter. How awful!

I don't believe you are stupid and so it must be wilful ignorance to still pretend to not understand the difference between BLM (the groups), BLM (the phrase) and taking the knee (the sports gesture that pre-dates the BLM groups). 

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I have no issue with the players wanting to take the knee - their choice.

Fans are also allowed to voice their opinion, ok one or 2 who boo might have racist views, I would say majority don't though and are sick of it happening. You can't tell people what to do just because you don't want to hear it.

Anyway, nearly page 11. 

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30 minutes ago, TBW said:

If you think kneeling has gone on long enough, wait until you find out how long racism has gone on for!

The racists.

What's wrong with defunding the police and pushing back against capitalism?

As long as racism does hopefully.

Less people take notice? We're currently ten pages deep where if they hadn't kneeled there would be no topic on the subject.

Might need a hearing aid.

How is it dangerous? Also "would have" not "would of". Maybe if you were better educated you wouldn't feel the need to boo.

 

28 minutes ago, TBW said:

Not all Brexit voters boo anti-racism but all people booing anti-racism are Brexit voters.

Jesus you're rediculous, you have made the case perfectly for why as a gesture its so devisive. You have generalised, cvnflated and assumed all sorts here. 

I support the idea of a stand against racism in football.  I wouldn't boo taking the knee, but I do think it's probably the worst way of making this particular statement.  I don't think those who are against it are racist by default the world just isn't that binary.  Becuase like many have said here you can't just seperate the gesture from BLM with a carefully worded statement. 

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11 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Okay, I think we can recap.

1. Some people - for reasons unknown - booed those taking the knee.

2. As per the club statement, players were taking the knee in solidarity with a wide number of social injustices, not specifically racism, although we all acknowledge that the reintroduction of the knee was popularised by sports people and became a symbol of BLM.

3. A large number of people who don't care much for the knee, just ignored it.

4. Some people have such an issue with something they could quietly ignore, they chose to boo.

5. The Supporters Trust need to make it clear in any future statements that their represent their paying members, and no ALL supporters, as aside from a survey every couple of years, where the questions are designed to give them the answer they think they want, they don't overly engage with the wider supporters base. They should also acknowledge the reason the club and players said they were taking the knee before implying those who disagreed were racist.

6. The PA in the Dolman is still shit.

7. We always concede in injury time.

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5 minutes ago, spudski said:

No...you've misunderstood me.

It seems so much is divisive. Dividing people.

Then you have establishments, Governments etc, saying one thing, but ignoring it themselves.

Pretty much everything is grey and often confusing, makes no sense, yet we are still told not to question and obey, regardless of actions.

Pretty much everything being reported on right now, is done in a way that causes division amongst people.

It's making the man on the street fall out with many.

I've never known a time where the average bloke on the street has fallen out with his mates.

Recently...Racism, Covid, Vaccination, illegal immigration, Vac passports, transport, Green and Vegan....it's literally gone mental in the last couple years. Never in my lifetime have I known anything like it.

Hence my questioning everything.

The General public are literally turning on one another...purely based on what they read and watch via media/ TV.

Everyone now is an ' expert' on any subject based in what they read and watch.

It's truly frightening how easy it is to manipulate the public.

 

Spot on.

Divide and conquer.

One thing is for sure - The mega rich won't be falling out over any of those issues mentioned, too busy making the most of the division among the masses 

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1 minute ago, 2015 said:

Spot on.

Divide and conquer.

One thing is for sure - The mega rich won't be falling out over any of those issues mentioned, too busy making the most of the division among the masses 

Well you've only got to look at who's got more rich and made more Billions in the last few years. It certainly makes you question what's going on. 

Everything is planned...nothing happens by accident, and everything reported has an owner, editor, production team or even Government telling them what to report to the masses.

It's a bit like when people look at the bloke mounting the top of Everest and never thinking it's actually the cameraman above him who's made it first. 

The unseen.

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