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Weimann or Semenyo [when fit]?


headhunter
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Our Austrian international turned 30 last week and he's just come back from the sort of injury that could take a yard off the pace of even the best. We've resigned him for another two years.

You know you're going to get a lot of hard running and the occasional flurry of goals but look at his stats, he's a 1 in 6 scorer. His effort alone seems to guarantee he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet. He missed a glorious chance to give us an earlier opening goal and I saw 3 or 4 pointless 40 yard sprints as he attempted to press on the keeper but never getting anywhere near. Does he ever put a telling cross in? You may have guessed by now that I'm not a fan! In fairness he's never had a run in his favoured [?] central position but then for that matter neither has Wells.

Am I being harsh? When he's fit should our experienced [compared with Bell, Conway, Pearson] youngster Semenyo bring his power and pace to the right side of our attack ahead of the Austrian?

 

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1 minute ago, headhunter said:

Our Austrian international turned 30 last week and he's just come back from the sort of injury that could take a yard off the pace of even the best. We've resigned him for another two years.

You know you're going to get a lot of hard running and the occasional flurry of goals but look at his stats, he's a 1 in 6 scorer. His effort alone seems to guarantee he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet. He missed a glorious chance to give us an earlier opening goal and I saw 3 or 4 pointless 40 yard sprints as he attempted to press on the keeper but never getting anywhere near. Does he ever put a telling cross in? You may have guessed by now that I'm not a fan! In fairness he's never had a run in his favoured [?] central position but then for that matter neither has Wells.

Am I being harsh? When he's fit should our experienced [compared with Bell, Conway, Pearson] youngster Semenyo bring his power and pace to the right side of our attack ahead of the Austrian?

 

With a much smaller squad this season you can be guaranteed that Semenyo will get his fair share of minutes. What we need from him once he is fit to build on last season is that final step up where he hits the onion bag 10 or so times between now and May.

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He doesn’t have to get near the keeper to affect the next action.  We wanted their keeper to kick long, not allow him to play out from the back as is their usual tactic.  Weimann made sure he kicked a low percentage ball.  As a team, Martin, Palmer, Scott and Weimann caused Maxwell to kick it long more than twice as often as he did last season.

Couple that with the the number of ball recoveries in the middle third (King particularly good at anticipating where the loose ball would drop) ending with us in possession was good from City.  It also enabled Baker and Atkinson to keep a high line.

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18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As a team, Martin, Palmer, Scott and Weimann caused Maxwell to kick it long more than twice as often as he did last season.

Which brings us back to Weimann and Semenyo. If we want to press high up the pitch I'd play both.

I'd give as an example our second goal at Stoke last year. First Weimann pressed the defence, then Semenyo pressed, won the ball, slipped it to Weimann who scored.

More of that would be nice.

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I would rather have Semenyo in that position. Quicker and much stronger. Can go past players easily, even 2 or 3 of them. Badly missed him yesterday, especially with our only other direct threat O'Dowda going off early.

Weimann I have never really liked wide right. Strange as most of his career has been out there.

That chance he had, it is so often him trying to go for power that means he goes way off target. I much prefer it when he guides his shots. He can't do that from any kind of distance as he lacks power so can't guide it from distance, but when close he is a tidy enough finisher when he side foots the ball, so the wrong decision yesterday.

Blackpool seemed to be targeting our right a lot and I'm not sure if Weimann playing such an attacking role was a reason for that. Vyner had a lot to do and thought he did pretty well until he had a knock in the final 10 or so minutes.

I think Weimann will always do a job out there. Will score the odd goal. Much prefer him centrally though. He wasn't very good up top alongside Fam, but he was good in behind Fam on about 4 occasions, or alongside Afobe very briefly, or box to box I really liked last season.

I just think his attributes aren't really suited to the wing. He worked his socks off yesterday like always in his running. I thought he was largely at fault for the equaliser. Poor clearance, should have controlled it and played it back to a defender to clear. And then he didn't get properly goal side of the player who made the pass for the goal. Was too concerned about him turning to go wide which he never did. Protect the middle of the pitch first and foremost in that situation.

Not sure if his role will change during the season. Alongside Wells might be interesting in a 442. Neither can really hold it up but the movement off the ball could be interesting to see. He could possibly be good for Wells like he was for Afobe.

Or in behind Martin might suit him too. He's a good hard working player imo. Just maybe a bit wasted out wide.

 

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38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He doesn’t have to get near the keeper to affect the next action.  We wanted their keeper to kick long, not allow him to play out from the back as is their usual tactic.  Weimann made sure he kicked a low percentage ball.  As a team, Martin, Palmer, Scott and Weimann caused Maxwell to kick it long more than twice as often as he did last season.

Couple that with the the number of ball recoveries in the middle third (King particularly good at anticipating where the loose ball would drop) ending with us in possession was good from City.  It also enabled Baker and Atkinson to keep a high line.

So you'd play him every week then Dave? He's one of our Galacticos in your eyes.

Our offensive game has numbers but not quality - Weimann, Martin, Wells, Semenyo, O'Dowda, Britton, Janneh, Pearson, Conway, Bell

 

 

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"You may have guessed by now that I'm not a fan!"

Correct. I did as you suggested a wide player with a 1 in 6 return, should be replaced with a 1 in 22 return.

Yes, his shots were dreadful on Saturday, but so often Semenyo's are. Remember he didn't score with a single shot last season, both were "Charge Downs" of the keeper. However, A.W  will keep running and keep getting more chances than most. Please also remember that's his first competitive match in a very long time.

I see @Davefevs has already pointed out, it's not just about winning the ball, it's about pressurising the keeper/defence into mistakes, and not letting them play the game they want.

He's always moving, finding space or space to run into, providing the outlet to play a safe forward pass. If he doesn't receive it, (as was so often the case) he has created space for the others.

I vividly remember him chasing 3 "Lost Causes" from the halfway line, resulting in 3 goals. That was a good months worth last season as I remember.

A bit like Brian Tinnion, although no one recorded Assists in those days, even without the penultimate touch, he often had an unnoticed involvement in most of our goals

So for me, the same as all his managers, it's AW for his overall contribution to the teams performance.

I'm sure to get hammered for this, but I think he's the only player we have that could influence a game without actually touching the ball.

You may have guessed by now that I'm a fan.

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23 minutes ago, headhunter said:

So you'd play him every week then Dave? He's one of our Galacticos in your eyes.

Our offensive game has numbers but not quality - Weimann, Martin, Wells, Semenyo, O'Dowda, Britton, Janneh, Pearson, Conway, Bell

 

 

No, there’s only one player I’d probably pick every game and that’s our keeper, assuming he performs well.

All others will be subject to rest and rotation.  But he’s one of a small core that will play regularly imho.  You’ll know I don’t do a best eleven….the game is too open to fluctuations to get the chance to pick one anyway, injuries, suspensions, form, fatigue etc dictate true availability.  Opposition play a part too.

10 minutes ago, MJP3 said:

"You may have guessed by now that I'm not a fan!"

Correct. I did as you suggested a wide player with a 1 in 6 return, should be replaced with a 1 in 22 return.

Yes, his shots were dreadful on Saturday, but so often Semenyo's are. Remember he didn't score with a single shot last season, both were "Charge Downs" of the keeper. However, A.W  will keep running and keep getting more chances than most. Please also remember that's his first competitive match in a very long time.

I see @Davefevs has already pointed out, it's not just about winning the ball, it's about pressurising the keeper/defence into mistakes, and not letting them play the game they want.

He's always moving, finding space or space to run into, providing the outlet to play a safe forward pass. If he doesn't receive it, (as was so often the case) he has created space for the others.

I vividly remember him chasing 3 "Lost Causes" from the halfway line, resulting in 3 goals. That was a good months worth last season as I remember.

A bit like Brian Tinnion, although no one recorded Assists in those days, even without the penultimate touch, he often had an unnoticed involvement in most of our goals

So for me, the same as all his managers, it's AW for his overall contribution to the teams performance.

I'm sure to get hammered for this, but I think he's the only player we have that could influence a game without actually touching the ball.

You may have guessed by now that I'm a fan.

Totally agree.

Weimann does just play RW either does he?  Too much made of 20 goal strikers, or their strike rate -  “1 in 2”, “1 in 3” etc, especially when Weimann has barely played as our main striker since Diedhiou returned to the side in Sept 2018 and the 352 of early 2019.  I tell you what I’d love a winger who scored 1 in 6!!!

Yesterday, it was him picking up the ball off of a loose aerial battle between Martin and then their CB, driving forward 15 yards before passing out wide to Alex Scott, before darting into the box.  He’s the one waiting to pounce if keeper parties Martin’s header.  He’s the one free at the back post with a tap-in if Palmer’s cross in second half isn’t blocked.

He will always make purposeful runs, he might not always get the ball, he might not always finish his chances, but end product of 21g / 12a from 87 (equiv 90 min matches) is bloody good for a “wide forward”.

For context the most creative wide man we’ve had of late, Eliasson, 7g / 21a from 58 (90m matches)….2/3rd amount of game time, so Weimann not bad at all.

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2 hours ago, headhunter said:

Our Austrian international turned 30 last week and he's just come back from the sort of injury that could take a yard off the pace of even the best. We've resigned him for another two years.

Prepare to be disappointed, we signed him for another 3 years.

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2 hours ago, headhunter said:

Our Austrian international turned 30 last week and he's just come back from the sort of injury that could take a yard off the pace of even the best. We've resigned him for another two years.

You know you're going to get a lot of hard running and the occasional flurry of goals but look at his stats, he's a 1 in 6 scorer. His effort alone seems to guarantee he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet. He missed a glorious chance to give us an earlier opening goal and I saw 3 or 4 pointless 40 yard sprints as he attempted to press on the keeper but never getting anywhere near. Does he ever put a telling cross in? You may have guessed by now that I'm not a fan! In fairness he's never had a run in his favoured [?] central position but then for that matter neither has Wells.

Am I being harsh? When he's fit should our experienced [compared with Bell, Conway, Pearson] youngster Semenyo bring his power and pace to the right side of our attack ahead of the Austrian?

 

No

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Weimann could come out and take a nap on the pitch and people will still think he's our best striker for decades. I'm exaggerating but he's not as quick as people think he is, he is a good first time finisher in the box usually I'll give him that but if he has more then three touches the attack slows down massively.

Semenyo is the only player in the squad who can get the ball and run past someone and try to create. 

Whack Weimann on the bench for late push and buy another winger/forward player who can get at players or just let the young lads have a go out on the wide areas with no fear, I'm sick of headless chickens running around and then being made out like its the Liverpool Gegenpress. 

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6 minutes ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

 

Semenyo is the only player in the squad who can get the ball and run past someone  

And Semenyo who is the only player who can send the ball over the suspension bridge from 2 yards out.

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If everyone were available, I'd probably start Weimann and Semenyo in the wide positions of a 3 (be that 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3). Hence there's no need to choose between them for me.

Chances are we'll rotate between Weimann, Semenyo, and O'Dowda in those positions.

Ideally, I think we need another left footed winger at the club. Money is of course tight though, so perhaps something to look at in another transfer window. 

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1 hour ago, frenchred said:

Aahh the runner, another player who improved beyond recognition while not playing out injured!

I would say it was many of the doubting fans ability to see the difference, and realise his overall contribution once he wasn't there, that improved beyond recognition.

i.e. That the running round a bit thing can be quite useful in some sports.

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4 hours ago, nickolas said:

Both. One either side. Simple. 

Have to agree, they are our best wide forward options.

i think weimann being out was a big loss last season, his experience and hard running are very important to us, but in my view, while he can occasionally score a lovely goal, he isn’t exactly blessed with the touch of dziekanowski.

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15 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Have to agree, they are our best wide forward options.

i think weimann being out was a big loss last season, his experience and hard running are very important to us, but in my view, while he can occasionally score a lovely goal, he isn’t exactly blessed with the touch of dziekanowski.

….and by the same token, Jacki wasn’t blessed with the work rate, unselfish movement, discipline of Andreas. 🤣

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12 hours ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

Weimann could come out and take a nap on the pitch and people will still think he's our best striker for decades. I'm exaggerating but he's not as quick as people think he is, he is a good first time finisher in the box usually I'll give him that but if he has more then three touches the attack slows down massively.

Semenyo is the only player in the squad who can get the ball and run past someone and try to create. 

Whack Weimann on the bench for late push and buy another winger/forward player who can get at players or just let the young lads have a go out on the wide areas with no fear, I'm sick of headless chickens running around and then being made out like its the Liverpool Gegenpress. 

I rate him higher than you but agree would love to have Semenyo back in when fit. We didn't seem too bothered about trying to get the ball to the byline on the weekend. Balls from a bit deeper will be quite easy for many championship defenders to deal with up against Martin or whoever else we have in there.

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19 hours ago, headhunter said:

Our Austrian international turned 30 last week and he's just come back from the sort of injury that could take a yard off the pace of even the best. We've resigned him for another two years.

You know you're going to get a lot of hard running and the occasional flurry of goals but look at his stats, he's a 1 in 6 scorer. His effort alone seems to guarantee he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet. He missed a glorious chance to give us an earlier opening goal and I saw 3 or 4 pointless 40 yard sprints as he attempted to press on the keeper but never getting anywhere near. Does he ever put a telling cross in? You may have guessed by now that I'm not a fan! In fairness he's never had a run in his favoured [?] central position but then for that matter neither has Wells.

Am I being harsh? When he's fit should our experienced [compared with Bell, Conway, Pearson] youngster Semenyo bring his power and pace to the right side of our attack ahead of the Austrian?

 

I think neither produce a decent final ball and both need to many chances to score

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