Carabao Cup Matchday No. 1 - Forest Green Rovers v. Bristol City

[BTRFTG]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Can we just correct this common assertion. He made millions by selling players.

 

Offset by the many more millions he incurred by signing the likes of... public decency doesn't permit my typing their names.

Johnson delivered operational losses in excess of £30m per season. That's the cost of servicing the contracts of the dross he signed. Of the 67 he signed, how many turned a profit?

The common assertion is that of the gambler:

"I won £100 on the nags today!"

"And how much have you lost in the past week?"

"Not saying...."

[Mr Popodopolous]

49 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Believe me, they are. That's why they're at the Ashton Gate Retirement Home for the Incapable. 

Nobody else wants them.

I must have missed positive performances at the Euros from two of them, Bentley's rising rep when joining us, DaSilva's promise, Vyner's steady improvement, James and his capable displays at Coventry last season- and actually a good first game too, anyway this is to name a few. Williams was certainly a capable midfielder this time last year, ie prior to joining us.

Nobody denies we have problems but it feels a bit overblown at this stage.

[Redrascal2]

9 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Can we just correct this common assertion. He made millions by selling players. 

Like Pearson is now, he was required to sell players to bring anyone in.  And this meant he often lost very good players.

 

I don't think Pearson has been left much to sell. It needed a cash injection from Lansdown which was not forthcoming. As most of the saleable assets were sold and replaced with what we have now. I am not sure if Pearson or any Manager will  turn this lot around. Ultimately the situation is we are in is down to Lansdown.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Dunno if anyone mentioned it but I see a bit of a whipping boy on here at times- ie Watkins- scored two for Cardiff tonight.

Okay it was only at home to Sutton United newly promoted to the League.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[BTRFTG]

3 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Not a glowing review of our squad! Surely this is a wind up mate? Most of those statements are, with respect, ludicrous.

You really think that our squad, man-for-man, is one of the 3 poorest in the division? Poorer than Derby, Blackpool, Peterborough, Hull, Huddersfield, Preston, Coventry, Birmingham etc? 

I didn't mention relative comparisons but we'll find out soon. What I did highlight is our squad is largely crap by what traditionally is required to thrive in The Championship. Are we improved from the side that got us here? In my opinion, NO.

But there's nothing that leads me to believe (Derby aside who I believe have no players) we're superior to any of those mentioned. Results & performances will inform.

[Mr Popodopolous]

47 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Bentley,  Kalas, Dasilva, Nagy, James, Martin, King, Weimann, Baker, Wells, Massengo …..pub team players? We’ll just have to disagree. 

Add Vyner and Atkinson to that...Wells and Semenyo as well- Palmer has looked a bit better since the start of the season too.

[Merrick's Marvels]

32 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Bentley,  Kalas, Dasilva, Nagy, James, Martin, King, Weimann, Baker, Wells, Massengo …..pub team players? We’ll just have to disagree. 

Allegedly we're trying to get to the Premier League. So were Brentford. In the process of working out how to do that, they got rid of Bentley. For a reason. Ditto Fulham and Kalas. Dasilva? Think we got the wrong brother there. James will be of use, in the short term, but will need someone to do his running as covering ground at pace ain't his thing. Ditto Martin. King is past his sell by date and made no impression on any of his last 3 clubs. Just because Weimann's played for some "big clubs" we've all heard of doesn't make him God's gift. Baker? He left in the summer, then came back with his tail between his legs when no-one else was interested. Wells? What amazing achievements have I missed? Massengo has much to learn. Nearly all of them are being paid eye watering amounts that we can't, in reality, afford. That would be OK if they were delivering scintillating football or even, you know, that pie in the sky promotion to the Premier League we're told is the aim. But they're not delivering. Bang average and vastly over paid sounds about right to me.    

[BTRFTG]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I must have missed positive performances at the Euros from two of them, Bentley's rising rep when joining us, DaSilva's promise, Vyner's steady improvement, James and his capable displays at Coventry last season- and actually a good first game too, anyway this is to name a few. Williams was certainly a capable midfielder this time last year, ie prior to joining us.

Nobody denies we have problems but it feels a bit overblown at this stage.

What's the Euros to do with City?

Many a player turns in improved performances when playing alongside talented colleagues. Perhaps the issue is they can't perform when embedded in dross? Kalas & Nagy looked decent in the Euros and whilst I thought Nagy our best player last year Kalas didn't pull up any journeyman trees, did he?

Not bothered with reputation or promise, it's performances that count. Penny, Brown, Burns,  our history is littered with 'stars of the future' who burned as bright and long as an LED bulb from Poundland.

Ask any Blackpool fan Saturday which player of ours they'd covet?  Few, that's for sure.

[BTRFTG]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Dunno if anyone mentioned it but I see a bit of a whipping boy on here at times- ie Watkins- scored two for Cardiff tonight.

Okay it was only at home to Sutton United newly promoted to the League.

A player so good and in which they have so much confidence they threw him a contract until......the end of August.

[REDOXO]

12 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Yeah: I wasn't really trying to compare who had most/least, whose players were whose etc - just making the point that we've been in a similar position throughout the past four management teams at least, namely that we can't buy unless we sell.

I just don't think its as black and white as is sometimes portrayed. Losing players of the calibre he did undoubtedly affected LJs record with us. I know you can argue about how well we replaced players, and there's some truth in that - but you cant go out and do a Webster every year!

I still believe that it was the manner of the way he lost Webster and Brownhill that took the wind out of LJs sails the last year/18 months. 

Yeah: But that wasn’t what happened initially. Tomlin, Engval among several others were bought in. Yes I agree that in this regard it’s not necessarily important to point out that the players eventually/initially sold for big profits were not LJs players with a couple of obvious exceptions eventually 

Brownhill and Webster left for a lot of money. However we were ok initially it was Brownhill going in January that became a huge problem. 

My personal opinion is that LJ was as at least as responsible as SL and MA for approving the sale and not replacing these guys but it seems that he was given a pass as Ashton took the fall for purchases and sales with many and SL will always be ultimately responsible. After the restart we were terrible. There was only one place to look then. (We had been pretty poor leading up to the suspension of play)
 

Anyway. Pearson has chucked out a dozen of the hangers on and is tasked with cutting back elsewhere substantially. Not really the start LJ had IMO. 
 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

What's the Euros to do with City?

Many a player turns in improved performances when playing alongside talented colleagues. Perhaps the issue is they can't perform when embedded in dross? Kalas & Nagy looked decent in the Euros and whilst I thought Nagy our best player last year Kalas didn't pull up any journeyman trees, did he?

Not bothered with reputation or promise, it's performances that count. Penny, Brown, Burns,  our history is littered with 'stars of the future' who burned as bright and long as an LED bulb from Poundland.

Ask any Blackpool fan Saturday which player of ours they'd covet?  Few, that's for sure.

I've wondered about this before but I wonder if they are played in a suitable position or tactical framework in some cases too. Okay, Kalas also has a strong track record at the top of this division with Fulham and Middlesbrough- on loan x 2 and x 2- 2 promotions and 2 playoffs I believe.

Think DaSilva is decent tbh, he like many had a terrible injury record last season so I'm not keen to throw the towel in yet. Williams was a good player- here he's been injured much of the time but time and age is on his side, Semenyo certainly as promise, forgot to add him. Think Vyner is steady at RB but an attacking outlet, nope- not yet anyway, James I'm happy with, Bentley- well he's kept us in many games.

The injuries generally certainly have been far from helpful but I have confidence that these issues won't repeat themselves.

2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

A player so good and in which they have so much confidence they threw him a contract until......the end of August.

Ha yeah, sounds about right- not saying we should've kept him, slight mischief making on my part tbh.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[BTRFTG]

12 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

It needed a cash injection from Lansdown which was not forthcoming.

You're not related to Scott Parker are you ( What did Khan ever do for Fulham?)

Come the next set of accounts I think you'll discover City's net liabilities are in the region of £130-150m. That's Real Madrid territory.

I think you owe SL an apology for splurging such a sum to sustain our (waste of) hobby.

 

[Supersonic Robin]

13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I didn't mention relative comparisons but we'll find out soon. What I did highlight is our squad is largely crap by what traditionally is required to thrive in The Championship. Are we improved from the side that got us here? In my opinion, NO.

But there's nothing that leads me to believe (Derby aside who I believe have no players) we're superior to any of those mentioned. Results & performances will inform.

 

7 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Ask any Blackpool fan Saturday which player of ours they'd covet?  Few, that's for sure.

Agree we're not in a position to thrive. But are we in a position to survive and finish lower midtable? Absolutely. 

I imagine the vast majority of those clubs mentioned (including Blackpool) would happily snap up a large chunk of our first XI were it possible for them to do so.

Looking at the Blackpool comment the other way around - how many of Blackpool's team would we take in our "first XI"? I can't say I'd be keen on very many at all.

I understand your general frustrations, but I just think you're being a little melodramatic in some of your comments mate. IMO, we're a slightly below average squad, performing notably below our ability level. That, for me, is possibly the biggest frustration about our current predicament.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Offset by the many more millions he incurred by signing the likes of... public decency doesn't permit my typing their names.

Johnson delivered operational losses in excess of £30m per season. That's the cost of servicing the contracts of the dross he signed. Of the 67 he signed, how many turned a profit?

The common assertion is that of the gambler:

"I won £100 on the nags today!"

"And how much have you lost in the past week?"

"Not saying...."

 

Pretty much ever manager at every club operating at this level is working with hefty operational losses. 

However, at this club, signing fees were paid with selling fees. 

[ExiledAjax]

 

[Fuber]

33 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Pretty much ever manager at every club operating at this level is working with hefty operational losses. 

However, at this club, signing fees were paid with selling fees. 

But only we have outspent all other clubs outside of parachute payment recipients under LJs tenure, and increased our wage spending in the last 3-4 years by near 50%.

In hindsight the MA/LJ era has set us back to 2011, outside of infrastructure. Culture is toxic, wages are a mess, scouting nonexistent. Relying on our academy now.

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Fuber said:

But only we have outspent all other clubs outside of parachute payment recipients under LJs tenure, and increased our wage spending in the last 3-4 years by near 50%.

In hindsight the MA/LJ era has set us back to 2011, outside of infrastructure. Culture is toxic, wages are a mess, scouting nonexistent. Relying on our academy now.

 

Are you sure of that?

Bristol City have outspent every other club once parachute payments have been taken into consideration??

[RumRed]

5 hours ago, YGBjammy said:

Turning this club around is like turning a cruise liner around. Going to take some time.

Unfortunately it being us we’re attempting that in the Suez Canal.

[TV Tom]

6 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Oh dear god you're giving each other reach around.  

 When debating It helps if you can string two words together

[Major Isewater]

We should have won that match however we didn’t put out a ‘ team’ , IMHO NP made too many changes when we should have been looking to boost the  squad with a win. 
 

We nearly did it but away from home against a club who are well run then it was asking a lot.

On the plus side that’s two matches where we’ve scored twice and and it would seem that we’re not too far away from digging out a win soon. 

[nick jones of hereford]

21 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

On the plus side that’s two matches where we’ve scored twice and and it would seem that we’re not too far away from digging out a win soon. 

We scored twice against FGR but only once against Blackpool.

maybe I misunderstood & your point was that we scored in two consecutive matches - I’m which case I apologise 

[Top Robin]

9 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Look, just admit you want him sacked instead of all these little digs that are dressed up as constructive. It'll make things easier for all of us.

Couldn't be farther from the truth.

I want him desperately to succeed but he needs to up his game somewhat.

I would not be happy with a 3 year plan which starts with 2 relegations.

[Top Robin]

8 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Did you see the second flippin goal?

It doesn't matter about the detail of the second goal Red.

The fact is that a Championship side could not beat a Div 2 team.

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, Top Robin said:

It doesn't matter about the detail of the second goal Red.

The fact is that a Championship side could not beat a Div 2 team.

Cup upsets happen. Fair play to them. 

More concerning is that against a basement level team, we had less possession, less passes, less shots on target and less attacks..! 

That is pretty woeful reading..! 

[RedorDead BCFC]

9 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

Lost out on the play-offs IIRC. Needed to beat Swindon at home in last game of the season to make the play-offs and Owen missed a penalty when it was all square towards the end of the game. But yes Owen missed that one and and the deciding one at Wembley, mind most people around where I was sitting weren't paying much attention to the penalty because a girl had got her tits out!

Wasn’t the Swindon and Mansfield final within a week of each other. Getting the tits out could f been in the open end? If so yes we was distracted 

[RedM]

29 minutes ago, nick jones of hereford said:

We scored twice against FGR but only once against Blackpool.

maybe I misunderstood & your point was that we scored in two consecutive matches - I’m which case I apologise 

If that’s the aim, just to score in matches then I’d say we are setting the bar a bit low. We should of course be aiming to score goals, that’s the whole point of the game, but you have to score more than you concede. We have to see out games better, play for the 96 minutes or so that matches are not switch off after the 85th and think the job is done.

Both times the opposition have kept going even though they were behind, surely the momentum *should* have been with us having the lead. The opposition should have been draining in confidence as the time ticked away, not looking stronger and stronger.

[BS4 on Tour...]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm very much pro NP but one promotion (League One title) 2008/09 and title at this level in 2013/14.

I'm very much pro him and think he deserves time and backing, but I have to say, comms a red herring, is his blueprint so applicable in the Championship?

Time will tell but the League feels very different now to 2013/14. Lot more foreign coaches, wider range of tactical schemes- Clubs coming down with Parachute Payments seem in a lot of cases to be getting smarter with it too.

A lot of what I say, isn't something he has any real control of but signing Simpson feels a mistake. Other signings look useful, his aversion to the loan market too? More important now than maybe 6-7 years back.

I’m not sure the Championship feels so much different today than 2013/2014 - taking your point about there being ‘lots more foreign coaches’ in the championship right now, that’s not strictly true - in the 2013/2014 season there were 5 foreign coaches (not including Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Rep of Ireland) - and this season, by the same criteria, there are 6 foreign coaches - so not much change there

[Bodiesaffer]

FGR played well cup game. Giant killed it happens.

[pl00peh91]

1 minute ago, Bodiesaffer said:

FGR played well cup game. Giant killed it happens.

We are no giants.

[Fuber]

6 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Are you sure of that?

Bristol City have outspent every other club once parachute payments have been taken into consideration??

From what I recall from the Maguire posts on Twitter - we at least did it two season runnings (18-19, 19-20).

The latter we spent upwards of £25m.