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Carabao Cup Matchday No. 1 - Forest Green Rovers v. Bristol City


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2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

We agree mostly.
 

Tomlin was difficult bloke for LJ to handle. Did you ever here the podcast where Wilbo stated that he went to see LJ over Tomlin. 
 

Others have handled Tomlin Wilbo more than implies he took the piss out of LJ and completely lost respect for him and the club.  
 

As far as Webster was concerned there was no way the club can keep a player who is subject to a 20m Prem bid. It’s about how you fill those boots. 
 

My personal opinion is that Pearson will sort this but last night was a blow due to the fact we don’t have a competitive outlet for a biggish even still squad. 

Prior to last night I wanted a mini-cup run to get players minutes, ease into the season etc.

But with unashamed hindsight (😉) there is a big part of me that thinks it’s perfect.  Nige gets to focus on the league, focus on competition for league games only.  You could argue a couple get to coast knowing they will get minutes in the Carabao Cup.  Not any more they won’t.  18 shirts to fill each game, there are gonna be a good few not getting kitted up each game wondering where their next minutes are coming from.

They will either react positively (good thing) or Nige will see that they aren’t what he wants…and help in determine where to trim the numbers.

It wasn’t the plan but I can see it being a positive.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Prior to last night I wanted a mini-cup run to get players minutes, ease into the season etc.

But with unashamed hindsight (😉) there is a big part of me that thinks it’s perfect.  Nige gets to focus on the league, focus on competition for league games only.  You could argue a couple get to coast knowing they will get minutes in the Carabao Cup.  Not any more they won’t.  18 shirts to fill each game, there are gonna be a good few not getting kitted up each game wondering where their next minutes are coming from.

They will either react positively (good thing) or Nige will see that they aren’t what he wants…and help in determine where to trim the numbers.

It wasn’t the plan but I can see it being a positive.

I think a cup run is never a bad thing. The club and support need a lift and even if we only progressed a couple more rounds it helps build positive momentum around the place. Supporters (as is typical I suppose) are beginning to have a few doubts and we have some tough games coming up. I think ideally we need 4 points (3 minimum) from Boro' and Reading otherwise the fans will get twitchy. Swansea and Cardiff after that which will be a big test. 

I agree with your reasoning, but I think Pearson would've been very disappointed in the team for that result. 

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Prior to last night I wanted a mini-cup run to get players minutes, ease into the season etc.

But with unashamed hindsight (😉) there is a big part of me that thinks it’s perfect.  Nige gets to focus on the league, focus on competition for league games only.  You could argue a couple get to coast knowing they will get minutes in the Carabao Cup.  Not any more they won’t.  18 shirts to fill each game, there are gonna be a good few not getting kitted up each game wondering where their next minutes are coming from.

They will either react positively (good thing) or Nige will see that they aren’t what he wants…and help in determine where to trim the numbers.

It wasn’t the plan but I can see it being a positive.

Your posts are always well informed and argued Dave but if even you are falling back on the 'concentrate on the league' cliche I fear the worst!

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11 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Your posts are always well informed and argued Dave but if even you are falling back on the 'concentrate on the league' cliche I fear the worst!

 

13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think a cup run is never a bad thing. The club and support need a lift and even if we only progressed a couple more rounds it helps build positive momentum around the place. Supporters (as is typical I suppose) are beginning to have a few doubts and we have some tough games coming up. I think ideally we need 4 points (3 minimum) from Boro' and Reading otherwise the fans will get twitchy. Swansea and Cardiff after that which will be a big test. 

I agree with your reasoning, but I think Pearson would've been very disappointed in the team for that result. 

Yep to both….unashamed hindsight as I said.

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19 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Wasn’t bothered by it at all.

Food was nice tonight. 

And you didn’t answer my question.

 

If your referring to the 25 options in a restaurant comment , then my answer is yes it would bother me as I think  people should be given a choice.

I have to say that isn't the case at FGR though, let's face facts here the whole vegan thing is rammed down people throats via the menu and the advertising boards.

 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Prior to last night I wanted a mini-cup run to get players minutes, ease into the season etc.

But with unashamed hindsight (😉) there is a big part of me that thinks it’s perfect.  Nige gets to focus on the league, focus on competition for league games only.  You could argue a couple get to coast knowing they will get minutes in the Carabao Cup.  Not any more they won’t.  18 shirts to fill each game, there are gonna be a good few not getting kitted up each game wondering where their next minutes are coming from.

They will either react positively (good thing) or Nige will see that they aren’t what he wants…and help in determine where to trim the numbers.

It wasn’t the plan but I can see it being a positive.

Yes I have a lot of sympathy with that view. It still didn’t stop me from mowing the living shit out of my lawn, but in retrospect this could lead to minds being concentrated!

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20 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Er, in his first full season here he took us to the semi-finals of the tournament we just were dumped out of by a 4th tier club.  Not sure we ever lost a competitive match to a 4th Tier club under LJ?

None of the positives under Johnson are allowed to be recalled. That was his second full season though.

His first full season we merely got to the Quarter Finals.

Plus his squad that was top half and fighting for the playoffs is automatically shit because he signed them, and he's shit for only fighting to get in the playoffs with shit players- and that last sentence definitely makes sense, there's definitely no implication that either the players weren't shit or that Johnson wasn't shit for that result to happen.

 

(And yes there are absolutely valid criticisms of Johnson that have been made multiple times over, but this new rewriting of history where everything he touches is automatically shit is bizarre. As is the, thankfully small grouped, mentality of some to wish whatever club he manages will fail)

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think a cup run is never a bad thing. The club and support need a lift and even if we only progressed a couple more rounds it helps build positive momentum around the place. Supporters (as is typical I suppose) are beginning to have a few doubts and we have some tough games coming up. I think ideally we need 4 points (3 minimum) from Boro' and Reading otherwise the fans will get twitchy. Swansea and Cardiff after that which will be a big test. 

I agree with your reasoning, but I think Pearson would've been very disappointed in the team for that result. 

I imagine Nige expected a win, but eleven changes strikes me as a check on the squad and look at the rest of the ones that might force their way into the first XI. 
To me it looks like he is studying the squad and how they react in competitive games. I think maybe that's another reason for NP to be in the stand, last year he was on the touchline

That team should have been good enough, it's those weaknesses he's trying to eradicate and it will take time. Totally agree with the highlighted bit, even he said he was amazed how the fans had stuck with him after last year. For the most part I think he still has some good feeling left, but that will seep away with every result like the last two.

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11 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

None of the positives under Johnson are allowed to be recalled. That was his second full season though.

His first full season we merely got to the Quarter Finals.

Plus his squad that was top half and fighting for the playoffs is automatically shit because he signed them, and he's shit for only fighting to get in the playoffs with shit players- and that last sentence definitely makes sense, there's definitely no implication that either the players weren't shit or that Johnson wasn't shit for that result to happen.

 

(And yes there are absolutely valid criticisms of Johnson that have been made multiple times over, but this new rewriting of history where everything he touches is automatically shit is bizarre. As is the, thankfully small grouped, mentality of some to wish whatever club he manages will fail)

Few people would argue that we didn't have good times under Johnson, it's the way we fell apart as a club after the Wolves game that are the problem and in my opinion outweigh those good times. We had a great run and made some great memories, but Johnson started the slide towards mediocrity and undid a lot of his previous achievements. Ultimately it's not that relevant for the thread or discussion over who started the slide, it's happened and Pearson is now tasked with doing a similar rebuild job to Lee Johnson whilst having considerably less funds and very few players with resale value.

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1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Yes I have a lot of sympathy with that view. It still didn’t stop me from mowing the living shit out of my lawn, but in retrospect this could lead to minds being concentrated!

It’s why I have Astro-turf 🤣

(true)

29 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

None of the positives under Johnson are allowed to be recalled. That was his second full season though.

His first full season we merely got to the Quarter Finals.

Plus his squad that was top half and fighting for the playoffs is automatically shit because he signed them, and he's shit for only fighting to get in the playoffs with shit players- and that last sentence definitely makes sense, there's definitely no implication that either the players weren't shit or that Johnson wasn't shit for that result to happen.

 

(And yes there are absolutely valid criticisms of Johnson that have been made multiple times over, but this new rewriting of history where everything he touches is automatically shit is bizarre. As is the, thankfully small grouped, mentality of some to wish whatever club he manages will fail)

There is of course the argument that as the number of SOD and Cotts players left, we got poorer.  I kinda see it a bit like Marty McFly’s photo in back to the future, that with every event that differs from the real one a bit more of the photo disappears.

Johnson did some good things, between him and Ashton they generally recruited poorly, wasting millions in the process.

He wasn’t shit, nor was he managerial genius either.  If he was he wouldn’t be in Lg1 now.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

It’s why I have Astro-turf 🤣

(true)

There is of course the argument that as the number of SOD and Cotts players left, we got poorer.  I kinda see it a bit like Marty McFly’s photo in back to the future, that with every event that differs from the real one a bit more of the photo disappears.

Johnson did some good things, between him and Ashton they generally recruited poorly, wasting millions in the process.

He wasn’t shit, nor was he managerial genius either.  If he was he wouldn’t be in Lg1 now.

He certainly wasn't either, and would never suggest such.

 

He did a decent job overall but ultimately failed.

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21 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

Not the words of a player who doesn’t care/want to be here as some have previously suggested....

👏 Nahki........

Give him a run in the team in his best position and he’s a striker who will score 15-20 times this season

I've never really understood the not caring, not trying, not wanting to be here comments about Nahki.

I expect ideally how it's turned out so far he'd rather have signed for QPR where he was scoring goals and had more service. But since being here he hasn't looked uninterested or lacking effort. He works hard, presses and makes runs off the ball.

Still not sure if he's quite right for us and how we play, but will have to wait and see if Nige can find ways for the team to create chances for him, and also for Wells to compliment the team more when he does not score.

He does look a bit moody at times on the pitch. But I wouldn't want a goalscorer starved of service to be anything else!

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6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It just feels different- maybe I'm overestimating the  number of foreign coaches but I'm surprised it hasn't moved that much, certainly feels different in that regard- anyway in NP I most definitely trust but I have to wonder about a few things- e.g. is Simpson too old and past his best, should Kalas and at times Nagy be getting more game time, is Wells a better choice more often than not?

Nahki Wells seems to be an enigma - he had a phenomenal scoring record at Bradford City and a reasonable scoring record at Huddersfield Town - that persuaded Burnley to pay £5m for him yet they then seemed to deem him not good enough for their club - so they loaned him to QPR where he did well and we then signed him - I think if played in the right position Nahki would be a fine striker for our club ...

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2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Nahki Wells seems to be an enigma - he had a phenomenal scoring record at Bradford City and a reasonable scoring record at Huddersfield Town - that persuaded Burnley to pay £5m for him yet they then seemed to deem him not good enough for their club - so they loaned him to QPR where he did well and we then signed him - I think if played in the right position Nahki would be a fine striker for our club ...

Agreed- he's just one of a clutch (IMO) that we aren't getting the best out of or haven't in the last few years.

He's a 1 in 3 with decent movement, we definitely aren't getting the best out of him, but just add him to the list. 

Now on a general note, I've have preferred Vydra as part of the deal (subject to fee and wages obvs) when Brownhill was sold but clearly Burnley preferred him too hence why we got Wells!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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12 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

None of the positives under Johnson are allowed to be recalled. That was his second full season though.

His first full season we merely got to the Quarter Finals.

Plus his squad that was top half and fighting for the playoffs is automatically shit because he signed them, and he's shit for only fighting to get in the playoffs with shit players- and that last sentence definitely makes sense, there's definitely no implication that either the players weren't shit or that Johnson wasn't shit for that result to happen.

 

(And yes there are absolutely valid criticisms of Johnson that have been made multiple times over, but this new rewriting of history where everything he touches is automatically shit is bizarre. As is the, thankfully small grouped, mentality of some to wish whatever club he manages will fail)

I don’t think that’s quite true. The start of the 17/18 season saw a city team that was arguably as good as any in the last 40 years. Hardly any fans would disagree. The problem was we began to nose dive and encounter problems from the February then throughout the rest of Johnson’s tenure. Yes we had the odd run of games and cracking away result but we just stalled and began to decline. Johnson was definitely part of that but just as culpable were Lansdown and Ashton.

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6 hours ago, 054123 said:

I don’t think that’s quite true. The start of the 17/18 season saw a city team that was arguably as good as any in the last 40 years. Hardly any fans would disagree. The problem was we began to nose dive and encounter problems from the February then throughout the rest of Johnson’s tenure. Yes we had the odd run of games and cracking away result but we just stalled and began to decline. Johnson was definitely part of that but just as culpable were Lansdown and Ashton.

I thought 2018/19 was quite good for about 1/3-50% of it, though a poor start but performances weren't so bad and stumbled towards the finish.

2019/20 however was significantly worse, and the odd thing was certain players signed and then got worse- not played in best position for one, Afobe getting injured when he did was also a big factor- although I think that system had flaws, it was definitely a big factor. Kalas-Nagy-Afobe all got medium to long term layoffs within a month of the start of the season.

Then in Jan, though Brownhill went- cash etc, who we did sign we didn't utilise or should I say LJ didn't utilise as they should have been.

  1. Benkovic- can carry it from LCB.
  2. Henriksen- best in a midfield 3, so we play him in a 2.
  3. Wells- well he had a slow start but dunno if positionally or service wise it was best.

Then add Moore being loaned out, when Moore-Kalas-Benkovic could have been quite useful- what could have been, a couple of scenarios:

                          Bentley

            Moore Kalas Benkovic

Pereira Smith Nagy Henriksen DaSilva

                    Weimann Wells

Of course, interchange Pereira and Hunt if required, maybe Massengo in for Henriksen, Henriksen first reserve, Baker first reserve at CB. Diedhiou first reserve up front.

Oh and persisting in CBs mid 30s and upwards is a real disadvantage- it hems in your defensive line in a back 4 and can give the opposition a notable weakness to exploit in a back 3...Williams, his legs had gone somewhat. Whereas the back 3 above are all of a certain age and profile where this risk is greatly reduced IMO.

Or:

                  Bentley

Hunt Kalas Benkovic DaSilva

           Nagy Smith

    O'Dowda ?  Paterson

               Wells

Pereira, Baker, Moore, Rowe, Henriksen, Massengo, Weimann, Diedhiou all in reserve. Could even with his energy play Massengo in that more advanced yet CM role and Weimann wide right...

Palmer maybe the obvious choice in that role in formation 2 but worry about it a bit out of possession.

I don't think the squad that bad that we should have fallen away as we did post Derby at home in Feb. Not saying necessarily we make the top 6 but it was very poor from then onwards- only real encouraging display after that under LJ was Fulham at home. Millwall too result but 2nd half definitely not performance.

There will be other good combinations too, it was quite the capitulation really.

That 2nd shape really has a Brownhill size hole in it- he can get some goals from CM, he can get some assists- plus pull right as well as tuck in and drop back. Still though the performances in the main were unacceptable post Derby at home and in general were below par for a lot of 2019/20 under LJ.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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