Jump to content
IGNORED

Right, it’s now the next day..


Silvio Dante
 Share

Recommended Posts

Nice pragmatic review. 

I'd agree with most of that - and defer to you as actually having witnessed the game.

I'd also just add that I think we need to look at the first ten mins as well. They were sloppy and shaky against Blackpool, and apparently similar tonight. Start brighter, get into the game quicker, and we might start to see results.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Nice pragmatic review. 

I'd agree with most of that - and defer to you as actually having witnessed the game.

I'd also just add that I think we need to look at the first ten mins as well. They were sloppy and shaky against Blackpool, and apparently similar tonight. Start brighter, get into the game quicker, and we might start to see results.

Yeah agree - sluggish both against Blackpool and tonight. Easy to fix but if we’re asleep for the first 10-15 each game many will escape us

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Silvio….I only listened on radio….and from about 18 mins in it seemed like we started to pass it better, Janneh and Bell swapped over on about 27 mins and we started creating better situations too.  Got the equaliser, winning possession 60:40 at h-t….not saying that is a guide….but comms reflected we were passing it better.

Second half sounded frantic, possession started to drift and we actually lost 48:52 over 90 so must’ve lost second half 36:64.  Was there anything that led to this?  It seemed they matched us up second half.

Were there any passengers, you mentioned Nagy???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can’t comment on tonight’s performance as I didn’t see it but I agree with your comments with regards to the Blackpool game. On the positive side on Saturday I thought that Atkinson looked composed and distributed the ball from the back very well especially in the second half. On the negative side we seemed to show no interest in getting a second goal during the second half when we were in control  of the game which then led to us just sitting deeper and deeper in the last 10 minutes until Blackpool eventually scored having not been in the game for the first 75 / 80 minutes.  I was disappointed to note the stats on tonight’s game show that FGR had more shots and had more possession than us but I don’t know if that was reflective of the performance.  Based on what I saw of Saturday I might guess we just let them have the ball and applied no pressure in the last 15 minutes and tried to hold on for a 2-1 win.  
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Silvio….I only listened on radio….and from about 18 mins in it seemed like we started to pass it better, Janneh and Bell swapped over on about 27 mins and we started creating better situations too.  Got the equaliser, winning possession 60:40 at h-t….not saying that is a guide….but comms reflected we were passing it better.

Second half sounded frantic, possession started to drift and we actually lost 48:52 over 90 so must’ve lost second half 36:64.  Was there anything that led to this?  It seemed they matched us up second half.

Were there any passengers, you mentioned Nagy???

I think second half we let them have a lot of ball without really letting them be in a position to use it - there was one save from Max early in the second period (post which they tried for a laughable handball from Cam) but we weren’t under the cosh in a way 36:64 would suggest. We did try and move the ball quickly at times and that did lead to ceded possession, but we seemed pretty comfortable even with that. Most of FGR ball was hopeful crosses (side note - Max punched very well).

So I’d say conscious decision - but passive game management again. Other thing to bear in mind in possession is that our Martin:Scott were Wells:Massengo. Latter two won’t give you easy minutes of possession to bump up those stats.

As for passengers, or poor performers, Simpson was a yard or two too slow. Made up for that in part with some good positioning for flick headers, but didn’t do himself any favours. Thought Bell was largely anonymous also, albeit wanted the ball and didn’t always get. Nagy overran the ball when he did have it and was nowhere near on it for me. However, again, it’s bizarre as I think more people played “well” or “ok” than poorly…

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think second half we let them have a lot of ball without really letting them be in a position to use it - there was one save from Max early in the second period (post which they tried for a laughable handball from Cam) but we weren’t under the cosh in a way 36:64 would suggest. We did try and move the ball quickly at times and that did lead to ceded possession, but we seemed pretty comfortable even with that. Most of FGR ball was hopeful crosses (side note - Max punched very well).

So I’d say conscious decision - but passive game management again. Other thing to bear in mind in possession is that our Martin:Scott were Wells:Massengo. Latter two won’t give you easy minutes of possession to bump up those stats.

As for passengers, or poor performers, Simpson was a yard or two too slow. Made up for that in part with some good positioning for flick headers, but didn’t do himself any favours. Thought Bell was largely anonymous also, albeit wanted the ball and didn’t always get. Nagy overran the ball when he did have it and was nowhere near on it for me. However, again, it’s bizarre as I think more people played “well” or “ok” than poorly…

I agree with you regarding the second half. Surprised to see the possession percentage as we were much more comfortable second half than first half. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, And Its Smith said:

I agree with you regarding the second half. Surprised to see the possession percentage as we were much more comfortable second half than first half. 

Just shows how stats can mislead without context.  Owers said 3 of their shots in quick succession were pretty pointless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting about Janneh as in his interview NP does not come across as glowing at all.

How did you think TM did?

I dont understand why they would sit back second half as surely should be busting a gut for the 1st team?

 

It does sound more positive than laat season, onwards and upwards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Janneh

Unlike some, I wasn’t convinced by Janneh tonight. There was a point early second half where he totally went to sleep and the fullback got in (Moore bollocked him for it). Max was asking him to move more, and on the second goal, he got a second bite after not making the most of the first chance. I don’t think, despite the two goals, he should be near the first 18 currently.

In fairness, and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but was he not playing out of position tonight? I’ve never heard of him playing on the wing and was sure he was more of a poacher-type striker. With that in mind, and given that our threat the entire game came down from whatever wing he was playing on, I thought he did very well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, rednotblue said:

How did you think TM did?

 

A bit of a mixed bag. One really good tackle in the first half and broadly stood up OK, but fluffed some clearances and was overall no more than adequate. Can see why NP diverted Gregors question as there wasn’t enough to slate him but not enough to praise him

 

10 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

In fairness, and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but was he not playing out of position tonight? I’ve never heard of him playing on the wing and was sure he was more of a poacher-type striker. With that in mind, and given that our threat the entire game came down from whatever wing he was playing on, I thought he did very well.

I think he prefers the middle but has been playing in last nights position all pre season. We’re playing one up top with an AM behind, and he’s not in the mix for either of those, so is competing with Weimann, Semenyo, Bell, Conway, O’Dowda for the wide attacking berths. I didn’t see enough from him to make me want to pick him regularly - there wasn’t great quality in delivery (one crossfield ball to Bell excluded) and a bit of blind alley running. Totally appreciate he may be learning the position but isn’t there yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To lose a first round League Cup tie against lower opposition is not a new experience for City.

The worrying thing is that apart from the two, or three, away league wins that ultimately saved us from the drop last season, we are not winning matches due to poor basic mistakes, individually and collectively.

We are not yet a total lost cause but will soon be unless we can win some. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Silvio….I only listened on radio….and from about 18 mins in it seemed like we started to pass it better, Janneh and Bell swapped over on about 27 mins and we started creating better situations too.  Got the equaliser, winning possession 60:40 at h-t….not saying that is a guide….but comms reflected we were passing it better.

Second half sounded frantic, possession started to drift and we actually lost 48:52 over 90 so must’ve lost second half 36:64.  Was there anything that led to this?  It seemed they matched us up second half.

Were there any passengers, you mentioned Nagy???

Frantic seems to be the word Dave. It's as if a switch is flicked and we go in to that mode. I honestly believe that this is a mental thing that can be solved, and not by grinding out training sessions for muscle memory. It's in the head.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

In fairness, and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but was he not playing out of position tonight? I’ve never heard of him playing on the wing and was sure he was more of a poacher-type striker. With that in mind, and given that our threat the entire game came down from whatever wing he was playing on, I thought he did very well.

I like players to picked on form not reputation so I would use him as an out and out striker for the next game at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

…albeit I only got back from Nailsworth 45 minutes ago (note to self: do not park in school as advised), so having reflected, this is the “slept on it” thoughts being away from the immediacy of the disappointing result.

Late Goals

People will look at the Blackpool and FGR games and see late goals and think “can we see games out”, but the reality happened earlier than that on both games. Post Martin’s goal Saturday, we didn’t create much but we’re in total control until c85 minutes. Today, post Jannehs second goal (and truth be told from 25 minutes in) we were in control but again, didn’t create much after we got ahead.

So the issue for me isn’t totally in the falling back last five and inviting pressure, it’s also the 25 minutes prior. We controlled, in the main, both games but didn’t look to go and win them. We’re not actually playing badly but we need to play differently (and how we do before we score - it’s marginal but it is a different style)

Niges Comments

In both the EP and official media channel, the one player NP highlighted as playing well was Kalas. This leads me to believe he’ll be back in with Atkinson sooner rather than later

Janneh

Unlike some, I wasn’t convinced by Janneh tonight. There was a point early second half where he totally went to sleep and the fullback got in (Moore bollocked him for it). Max was asking him to move more, and on the second goal, he got a second bite after not making the most of the first chance. I don’t think, despite the two goals, he should be near the first 18 currently.

Nagy

Surprised to see him on the team sheet. Won’t have impressed any buyers on that and the change of KP on really provided missing impetus.

Overall

It’s tough because there wasn’t masses wrong and it was a second string side (albeit with Kalas etc in). The big deal for me was game management. We seem to think it starts at 80 minutes. It needs to start sooner, and sometimes be positive game management! But we weren’t terrible. Some (Simpson sticks out) were below par but we weren’t horrific. It’s a mindset thing. Again.

As I said on another thread, out if the 3 we loaned to Torquay a few seasons ago, Janneh was the one I thought had no chance of making it with us, didn’t look anywhere near championship class. Conner L Evans looked class and I thought would step up.

However, there have been many brilliant goal scorers over the years that have looked average at best in a game but scored plenty of winning goals.

As for the rest, I think it’s easy to forget most of those players haven’t played 90 minutes for ages. Training is one thing, match day is another. Massengo for instance has only played a half since early May. I think they’d all play better next week if called upon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was a bit of an odd game there weren't too many chances but it finished 2-2. I have to admit I was half on my way out with the boy when the last goal went in (I know what the traffic is like :laugh:!) but the first goal was bang average defending and from what I saw the second looked a bit messy as well. Taylor Moore looks to be the fall guy but on the whole had a pretty solid game without any howlers imo. I thought first half especially we looked very casual almost a friendly type of feel to the game rather than going for the juggular to impress the manager for a place in the team on Saturday. We were pretty average in the second as well and to be fair to FGR they ran all night long and never gave up and probably deserved the draw even though they also didn't create many chances. Did Nige understimate/respect them by making 11 changes?

Williams - don't want to be too critical but the feeling from the fans around me as well was that he seemed well off the pace from the off and struggled to find a man with most passes. He's also a bigger unit than I thought up close so probably needed the game after all his time out but he definitely didn't look anywhere near a £1m midfielder his body just seemed to give up on him. His fitness will be an ongoing problem I can imagine.

Wells - Captain? very odd decision, didn't get a lot of service in the central role but was very isolated and the few sniffs he did get he justs seems devoid of confidence for me. One good chance in the second half where he tried to round the keeper and made a mess of it summed up his current levels.

Nagy - Nige needs to decide whether he plays him or not, was busy without really creating much in an advanced role. To put him in infront of Tyreek is a big slap in the face for a player who did very well for us in some games last season and played reasonably well when he came on.

Massengo - runs around a lot but not a lot of end product his first touch was also horrible to watch at times.

KP - picked up a knock that seemed to hamper him a bit so be interesting to see if he makes Saturday again wasn't able to get in the game a lot to get the decisive third.

Bell - isn't a wide player on this showing, should glimpses but just got bullied off the ball more often than not

Janneh - has pace to burn and knows where the goal is. My MOM he did make a few rookie mistakes but again he's a striker being played slightly out of position on the flank as Nige wanted to play 4-3-3. I think he's a better option off the bench than Conway or Bell for Saturday as he looks a goalscorer who can make an impact.

Nige - Perhaps again the formation could have been tweaked near the end to make us more solid and protect the two youngsters out wide and the lead? Keeping it at 4-3-3 didn't pay off as we slowly went deeper as the game ticked down.

I don't think Nige will be changing too many of his starting 11 on this evidence to be honest.

Edited by TMWANG50
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

I like players to picked on form not reputation so I would use him as an out and out striker for the next game at least.

So do I. For that reason I’d play Chris Martin who played in that striker role Saturday, scored, was in several media outlets team of the week and contributed to our largest xG in some time with his all round play.

The easy comment of play Janneh because he scored two isn’t necessarily the right answer, because he might not necessarily be the right option.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me I wasn’t that impressed by Janneh, despite his two goals. 
Offensively he did OK, brought the ball forward quickly when there was space, but looked void of all confidence when he met a man and needed to get around. Defensively I thought he really struggled. Out of position a few times which each led to a (poor) cross being put it. Taylor Moore, Cam Pring and a few others had strong words with him about his positioning. It’s a shame really because the second goal showed a touch of class. 
 

As for the other youngsters, I thought Sam Bell was quiet, but like another poster said, he wanted the ball but didn’t receive it very often. 
Cam Pring I liked the look of. Defensively was pretty solid and didn’t do much wrong, got an engine on him going forward too, just lacked a bit of end product. As for the missed penalty- is what it is I guess!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

…albeit I only got back from Nailsworth 45 minutes ago (note to self: do not park in school as advised), so having reflected, this is the “slept on it” thoughts being away from the immediacy of the disappointing result.

Late Goals

People will look at the Blackpool and FGR games and see late goals and think “can we see games out”, but the reality happened earlier than that on both games. Post Martin’s goal Saturday, we didn’t create much but we’re in total control until c85 minutes. Today, post Jannehs second goal (and truth be told from 25 minutes in) we were in control but again, didn’t create much after we got ahead.

So the issue for me isn’t totally in the falling back last five and inviting pressure, it’s also the 25 minutes prior. We controlled, in the main, both games but didn’t look to go and win them. We’re not actually playing badly but we need to play differently (and how we do before we score - it’s marginal but it is a different style)

Niges Comments

In both the EP and official media channel, the one player NP highlighted as playing well was Kalas. This leads me to believe he’ll be back in with Atkinson sooner rather than later

Janneh

Unlike some, I wasn’t convinced by Janneh tonight. There was a point early second half where he totally went to sleep and the fullback got in (Moore bollocked him for it). Max was asking him to move more, and on the second goal, he got a second bite after not making the most of the first chance. I don’t think, despite the two goals, he should be near the first 18 currently.

Nagy

Surprised to see him on the team sheet. Won’t have impressed any buyers on that and the change of KP on really provided missing impetus.

Overall

It’s tough because there wasn’t masses wrong and it was a second string side (albeit with Kalas etc in). The big deal for me was game management. We seem to think it starts at 80 minutes. It needs to start sooner, and sometimes be positive game management! But we weren’t terrible. Some (Simpson sticks out) were below par but we weren’t horrific. It’s a mindset thing. Again.

Question is what did Simpson do last season to warrant a contract this year?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

So do I. For that reason I’d play Chris Martin who played in that striker role Saturday, scored, was in several media outlets team of the week and contributed to our largest xG in some time with his all round play.

The easy comment of play Janneh because he scored two isn’t necessarily the right answer, because he might not necessarily be the right option.

Thank about it, how far have we dropped that Martin is our best forward and goal threat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have sat deep against teams looking for goals for ages, we have done the same to teams. Those games where we dominated the last 10 minutes,  getting in crosses, or shots, pressing teams back. It's normal, happens all the time.  It's annoying and we need to become more compact but find a way to play 10-15 yards further up. Saturday I think it was a decent bit of movement, yesterday  looked a mess. Camera Angle is crap, but for the most part we have everyone covered. Until the players coming from wide all switch off and the goal scorer is left to pick up what should have been an easy clearance.
We have been seeing this for the last couple of seasons, you will never eliminate it completely, but with luck Pearson will sort that mindset, things have improved, but there is a long way to go.

As the ball comes in looks like all players are covered

 

1284044011_Screenshot2021-08-11at09_46_29.thumb.png.4f983dfd90aaca68ef59021cbbdb8588.png

The header , should be safe enough. Though already you can see 3 City players watching the ball (Left)

1245742823_Screenshot2021-08-11at09_46_50.thumb.png.e1209ac37ad0fe5fba3753725e6bb900.png

 

The bottom shot shows that while the FGR scorer has kept moving and picked up the loose ball for a straightforward finish, the 3 in Red have barely moved.

Moore & Kalas were goal side of the forward, don't look out of place, but again we leave a runner. This for me is much worse than Saturday as it's just someone jogging into an area. Saturday was a decent move

1640672586_Screenshot2021-08-11at09_47_16.thumb.png.e1800fd33ba934da814df76a9211a080.png

All we can hope is this flags up problems that NP can address, we are very much a work in progress. The one thing is, he's see all the squad now and I think some will be closer the first XI and others may have just stepped down a level.
Saturday is looking a tough game right now.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did'nt go last night only had twitter updates really and the last bit of radio bristol so can't comment on the performance, but i did go to blackpool and i think the over riding frustration for me is we are making the same basic errors, this keeps happening and it needs eradicating quickly, i remember in seasons before where ashton gate gets nervy with 75 mins gone and low and behold we conceed, its going to get to that point again soon and once confidence has gone it's difficult to get back for the fans and players. 

 

 I do think nigel pearson is the right man and whilst i don't like the way he talks in interviews it might just be what this clubs need's we have been a soft touch for to long and it needs someone to get it by the scruff of the neck and change the mentality of the players, we just need to be patient and i'm confident with what i've seen over pre-season and the blackpool game he will get us going in the right direction. Just to add forest green whilst in league 2(and we should be beating them )  are a very good side i've been a few time's to the lawn and under mark cooper they were decent and i'm hearing there looking better under Rob Edwards so whilst i'm dissapointed we lost it was'nt a huge surprise they gave us a tough mathc a few champ sides struggled against worse league 2 side's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent thread with lots of sensible comments. In essence NP:

Will have a clear appreciation of his best options and a view on whose on the fringes.

Knows that rebuilding will take time and this season is about safety and making some improvements, he’s referenced culture and accountability +++

Has to blend youth and experience and operate within financial constraints.

I conclude that with the squad he has it will be a difficult season primarily because we aren’t likely to score many goals. I really hope he can bring someone in during this window, to increase our scoring options, which may well be a loanee.

We are very much a work in progress, NP has made very clear that turning things around will take time. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

In fairness, and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but was he not playing out of position tonight? I’ve never heard of him playing on the wing and was sure he was more of a poacher-type striker. With that in mind, and given that our threat the entire game came down from whatever wing he was playing on, I thought he did very well.

He is a striker, but in his early subs with City last season and throughout pre-season he has played left wing (sometimes swapping to RW)….and last night he was on the wing too.

In his loan spell at Torquay he showed a real goal scorers touch, scoring all types.  He took his goals really well last night.  In some respects a goalscoring winger can be a real plus, but I will need to see him against Champ opposition to see if he can make the step up.  A few comments on here about his lack of ability in the defensive side of his game, which for a winger (wide midfielder) is unfortunately a huge part of today’s game.

20 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

Excellent thread with lots of sensible comments. In essence NP:

Will have a clear appreciation of his best options and a view on whose on the fringes.

Knows that rebuilding will take time and this season is about safety and making some improvements, he’s referenced culture and accountability +++

Has to blend youth and experience and operate within financial constraints.

I conclude that with the squad he has it will be a difficult season primarily because we aren’t likely to score many goals. I really hope he can bring someone in during this window, to increase our scoring options, which may well be a loanee.

We are very much a work in progress, NP has made very clear that turning things around will take time. 

 

I get the impression that Nige’s ability to put out a strong(ish) eleven last night, and fans view that we have two comparable elevens might have seen two or three fall out of that core group following last night.  Appears some didn’t do themselves justice.

imho, on Saturday (a game I watched, whereas last night I’m relying on others opinions who did go)I don’t think there were any players who fell short, everyone at least earned their corn.  Last night appears less so, against lower league opposition.  Nige will have learned a fair bit as a result.  Some might be waiting a fair bit of time to get another chance.

In some ways that is good.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having been at both games my observations would be that in both the team were disrupted by injury to a key player, COD on Saturday, Williams last night.

On both occasions the replacements should have meant a formation change but it didn’t happen, so Nige wants to play a certain formation and his plan B is to put square pegs in round holes if needs be.

For example Bell and latterly Conway are on the shoulder strikers, not wide midfield players, I doubt that either have ever started a game in that position they have both progressed through the academy as out and out strikers.

Nig had two chances last night to play two up top against inferior opponents, and chose to keep his preferred formation at the expense of the potential and ability of his subs.

Taylor Moore was again exposed by playing on the left of the two centre backs, If Kalas had played there as he did in the Euros perhaps the balance would have been better and Moore may have  been able to bring the ball out more.

Why play Nagy at all when he wants away? I just don’t understand that, unless it was again to maintain the preferred formation.

I’m quite disappointed in our start and two injuries already does not bode well for the season, I think it’s going to be a struggle.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Taylor Moore was again exposed by playing on the left of the two centre backs, If Kalas had played there as he did in the Euros perhaps the balance would have been better and Moore may have  been able to bring the ball out more.

I feel sorry for TM, last year (and previouslyTBF) he played well at RCB so much so early on I had him ahead of Vyner. Moving to the left has messed him up massively, he's never looked the same player.  It may be something as simple as not being feeling comfortable to play a simple ball down the line, whatever it is it does affect him. 

9 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Why play Nagy at all when he wants away? I just don’t understand that, unless it was again to maintain the preferred formation.

I think that was it. I said yesterday the Bakinson can or has been a liability in defensive areas. Nagy & Williams meant we could play in a similar way to Saturday. It's a big enough rebuild without doing a Johnson and chopping and changing formations from game to game. 

Only guessing, but a big part of Nagy wanting away could be to the amount of games he plays (couldn't blame him), maybe last night was a chance to see if he was going to step up, or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...