Pearson

[WarksRobin]

The answer is simple. Between us we just have to purchase 100,000 replica shirts and then the club will have the revenue needed under FFP to be able to sign a couple of players. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

33 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Been done to death. The 'infrastructure' (not owned by the football club you'll recall,) is worth far less than people imagine, as are any bespoke assets. Value predominantly lies in the freehold land on which the infrastructure sits, but with CIL, Section 106 and overheads any residual land value is greatly reduced from that headlined.

Income from the activities you mention doesn't go to the football club.

The football club's a financial basketcase and I struggle to see who'd buy it from SL.

If that's true, then at some point there will be managed declined - as there has been at Ipswich Town for instance, their wealthy owner closing his wallet and reducing costs to the point outgoings were under control and not vastly in excess of incomes. This meant Ipswich became more attractive to potential buyers. It also meant they were relegated to League One and looked like staying there. 

This doesn't appear to be Lansdown's plan just yet, judging by the appointment of a man with Pearson's pedigree.  

As for how attractive an investment we really are, I note the naming rights for the stadium haven't been flogged to the highest bidder yet. Perhaps Lansdown considers that a step too far but instead wants to use it as a carrot to entice new owners, along with the fact the stadium can probably be used to generate still more revenue on non-matchdays, and the fact 25% of it has yet to be redeveloped. I suspect Lansdown doesn't have the stomach for another battle with the Council over planning permission but that's not to say new owners wouldn't. Again, this can be used as a carrot to dangle in front of potential new owners.

So maybe we're not quite so unattractive, although the Bristol Sport arrangement does complicate things as we always need to keep asking ourselves "but what about the Bears" ?    

[Desso]

6 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

The answer is simple. Between us we just have to purchase 100,000 replica shirts and then the club will have the revenue needed under FFP to be able to sign a couple of players. 

and put in a decent sound system, hopefully.

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, Red Alert said:

Without visibility of the current accounts & FFP situation I can’t answer that.

We’re not being told we can’t because of FFP we’re simply being told we have sell to buy which sounds more like a cash flow.

I can guarantee you cash flow is not the issue, P&L in relation to FFP is.

Based on some estimates (very crude) of last season’s accounts and this seasons.

this season we lose 18/19’s profit off the 3 year FFP cycle, we are now adding up 3 years of losses.  I suspect there is a COVID allowable exclusion but I’ve no idea how much, that probably claws back some of that total loss.

Nige is operating in incredibly difficult times.  A few other clubs are too, but not everything, not the PP clubs nor the ones with lower cost bases like Luton, Millwall, Barnsley etc.

[Carey 6]

Like most of you, I am disappointed at how we have started the season. 

Pearson was widely accepted as a great appointment. He needs time to sort us out. It's a new-ish system, the players are still learning their roles/patterns of play. We have to have patience through this period of transition.

Last season he had countless injuries along with a lot of players going out of contract who probably didn't want the risk of getting injured. 

So for that reason, I think it is harsh to mention last season when talking about how long we've not won a game for etc. For me, we haven't won in 2. 

Like @IAmNick said, for me he has until Christmas unless we find ourselves quite adrift at the bottom after 10/15 games.

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I can guarantee you cash flow is not the issue, P&L in relation to FFP is.

Based on some estimates (very crude) of last season’s accounts and this seasons.

this season we lose 18/19’s profit off the 3 year FFP cycle, we are now adding up 3 years of losses.  I suspect there is a COVID allowable exclusion but I’ve no idea how much, that probably claws back some of that total loss.

Nige is operating in incredibly difficult times.  A few other clubs are too, but not everything, not the PP clubs nor the ones with lower cost bases like Luton, Millwall, Barnsley etc.

You've had to post this so often we could do with a pinned thread to refer people to.

Is my memory failing me or did SL tell GT in an interview this year that we are in a strong position  re FFP? Can't see how we could be unless Covid allowances are generous, so most likely my memory!

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, chinapig said:

You've had to post this so often we could do with a pinned thread to refer people to.

Is my memory failing me or did SL tell GT in an interview this year that we are in a strong position  re FFP? Can't see how we could be unless Covid allowances are generous, so most likely my memory!

I think he said words to that affect (effect?).  I suspect he was being a bit smart.  1) we aren’t in any danger from accounts formally sent to the EFL, but our project accounts for this season will be having a close look. 2) commercial suicide to admit the issues.

I suspect Covid allowances are gonna be more than i first envisaged.  I think Stoke put in a £10m impairment in their last accounts.

[Numero Uno]

10 hours ago, pillred said:

I don't moan incessantly but now and again I feel inclined to vent my frustration at yet another season that looks like it might end in another failure, if you want to ignore that that's your right but I do wonder just how bad we would have to be for you to admit things were not going well and 13 games and counting for me that's been reached and is it only alright to say nice things? 

It’s going badly right now after three games (you surely have to recognise that last season was a one off with a huge number of injuries, half a team of kids and senior out of contract players demotivated by an incompetent CEO if you have any fairness about you at all).

It’s not about “ignoring” it, more a recognition that we have a tough season ahead that we as fans have no control over EXCEPT to get behind the team. If we do the opposite and abuse them we WILL get relegated no doubt about it. I’ll stick my head on the block and tell you now…….Steve ain’t sacking Pearson with the further dent in his personal wealth and the effect on FFP that entails, it just won’t happen.

[Northern Red]

I absolutely guarantee that the people mentioning last season's record wouldn't be doing so if we'd gone unbeaten in the final 10 games of it. Doesn't suit the agenda.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I absolutely guarantee that the people mentioning last season's record wouldn't be doing so if we'd gone unbeaten in the final 10 games of it. Doesn't suit the agenda.

New season, makes no difference ………... It’s the fact that these nutters think we are going to continue sacking managers every few months that makes me laugh.

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I absolutely guarantee that the people mentioning last season's record wouldn't be doing so if we'd gone unbeaten in the final 10 games of it. Doesn't suit the agenda.

Of course, and nobody would be complaining if we had made the play offs, but that didn't happen either.

So I'm not sure what difference a hypothetical scenario makes when we are commenting on the reality.

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

If that's true, then at some point there will be managed declined - as there has been at Ipswich Town for instance, their wealthy owner closing his wallet and reducing costs to the point outgoings were under control and not vastly in excess of incomes. This meant Ipswich became more attractive to potential buyers. It also meant they were relegated to League One and looked like staying there. 

This doesn't appear to be Lansdown's plan just yet, judging by the appointment of a man with Pearson's pedigree.  

As for how attractive an investment we really are, I note the naming rights for the stadium haven't been flogged to the highest bidder yet. Perhaps Lansdown considers that a step too far but instead wants to use it as a carrot to entice new owners, along with the fact the stadium can probably be used to generate still more revenue on non-matchdays, and the fact 25% of it has yet to be redeveloped. I suspect Lansdown doesn't have the stomach for another battle with the Council over planning permission but that's not to say new owners wouldn't. Again, this can be used as a carrot to dangle in front of potential new owners.

So maybe we're not quite so unattractive, although the Bristol Sport arrangement does complicate things as we always need to keep asking ourselves "but what about the Bears" ?    

Those who seek to make money from professional sports franchises rarely are concerned as to infrastructure (Spurs being a notable exception but in their case it's how they service their infrastructure that's of note, plus a very peculiar fanbase - contrast their matchday turnover with all other Premier teams.) Investors are only concerned as to broadcast revenues and marketing potential. Problem being there are few attractive propositions in World Sport. If Barcelona can't turn a buck, why should Bristol?

Look no further than the US where a small number of sports generate huge broadcast and marketing incomes, yet many franchises have no interest in owning or developing infrastructure, rather they leverage cities to build and maintain infrastructure they may use whilst in residence, which cities are happy to do knowing the wider economic benefits location of franchises brings. Run that past Bristol Council and there's a greater likelihood they'd reintroduce slavery before promoting local business and tourism. As Wembley et al demonstrate, the odd, additional event helps to offset costs but nowhere near enough to justify building said infrastructure in the first place.

So as to Lansdown / other investors. Well there are vast broadcasting riches to be had in the Premier League for City, peanuts in Professional Rugby for The Bears, nothing in WSL or Basketball & liabilities in the motor racing (if he's still doing that.) So whilst Lansdown finds the Bristol Sport concept attractive, investors see City & only City. And of the marketing potential? Well you will note from our long history with sponsors, World Brands haven't exactly come a knocking. We struggle to get kids in Withywood to don a City shirt so what likelihood those in Bangalore, Kuala Lumpur or Timbuktu will be rushing out to pretend to be the next Semenyo? Why do you think we ended up with Nibor and the like? City's marketing potential is limited, like the club's thinking, to South Bristol. There's no global interest in Ashton Gate tool hire, temp recruitment, or Clarks Pies and only ever would be should City gain Premier exposure.

But as others have shown one doesn't need a large & fancy stadium to access such riches, just the brand franchise save City's stock, well it's about as attractive and relevant as it was when I first started watching them in the 60s.

[City oz]

11 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Of course, and nobody would be complaining if we had made the play offs, but that didn't happen either.

So I'm not sure what difference a hypothetical scenario makes when we are commenting on the reality.

And the reality is from your perspective. Probably negative as usual.

Reality is that we do have now a manager that is not just popular but the best we could have imagined under recent circumstances.

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, City oz said:

And the reality is from your perspective. Probably negative as usual.

Reality is that we do have now a manager that is not just popular but the best we could have imagined under recent circumstances.

I am pro Pearson and certainly not advocating his sacking. It doesn't follow that if somebody is concerned about aspects of our performance that they are negative and want the manager sacked.

I have expressed concern at our continuing inability to defend crosses and judging by his post match comments he shares that concern.

Which is hardly surprising as a man of his experience is hardly likely to miss it and less likely to pretend everything is hunky dory.

[Merrick's Marvels]

28 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Those who seek to make money from professional sports franchises rarely are concerned as to infrastructure (Spurs being a notable exception but in their case it's how they service their infrastructure that's of note, plus a very peculiar fanbase - contrast their matchday turnover with all other Premier teams.) Investors are only concerned as to broadcast revenues and marketing potential. Problem being there are few attractive propositions in World Sport. If Barcelona can't turn a buck, why should Bristol?

Look no further than the US where a small number of sports generate huge broadcast and marketing incomes, yet many franchises have no interest in owning or developing infrastructure, rather they leverage cities to build and maintain infrastructure they may use whilst in residence, which cities are happy to do knowing the wider economic benefits location of franchises brings. Run that past Bristol Council and there's a greater likelihood they'd reintroduce slavery before promoting local business and tourism. As Wembley et al demonstrate, the odd, additional event helps to offset costs but nowhere near enough to justify building said infrastructure in the first place.

So as to Lansdown / other investors. Well there are vast broadcasting riches to be had in the Premier League for City, peanuts in Professional Rugby for The Bears, nothing in WSL or Basketball & liabilities in the motor racing (if he's still doing that.) So whilst Lansdown finds the Bristol Sport concept attractive, investors see City & only City. And of the marketing potential? Well you will note from our long history with sponsors, World Brands haven't exactly come a knocking. We struggle to get kids in Withywood to don a City shirt so what likelihood those in Bangalore, Kuala Lumpur or Timbuktu will be rushing out to pretend to be the next Semenyo? Why do you think we ended up with Nibor and the like? City's marketing potential is limited, like the club's thinking, to South Bristol. There's no global interest in Ashton Gate tool hire, temp recruitment, or Clarks Pies and only ever would be should City gain Premier exposure.

But as others have shown one doesn't need a large & fancy stadium to access such riches, just the brand franchise save City's stock, well it's about as attractive and relevant as it was when I first started watching them in the 60s.

Best get to the Premier League quick.

But we knew that already.

[INCRED]

3 hours ago, Carey 6 said:

Like most of you, I am disappointed at how we have started the season. 

Pearson was widely accepted as a great appointment. He needs time to sort us out. It's a new-ish system, the players are still learning their roles/patterns of play. We have to have patience through this period of transition.

Last season he had countless injuries along with a lot of players going out of contract who probably didn't want the risk of getting injured. 

So for that reason, I think it is harsh to mention last season when talking about how long we've not won a game for etc. For me, we haven't won in 2. 

Like @IAmNick said, for me he has until Christmas unless we find ourselves quite adrift at the bottom after 10/15 games.

If by bringing in NP as an experienced manager at this level and reasonably successful with it, why are we not seeing any tangible improvements yet?

Is it NP, the players or perhaps has he been sold a lemon by the board and perhaps is regretting taking the job as his body language and lack of perceived enthusiasm puzzles me 

If we don’t pick up any points in the next couple of games I do wonder if things will come to a head and some questions will be posed of when and how we get out of this awful run and how long the fans are going to tolerate the situation 

The majority I think believed NP would be a good appointment but to date we haven’t seen anything that justifies the fanfare

Something needs to change soon regards are form but I can’t see us getting much from the next few games 

[MATT BCFC]

In his first interview Pearson mentioned that he thinks tactics are overrated or something like that. 

This worried a bit to be honest and I am starting to see this is something he may neglect. 

All for team spirit etc but I do personally think tactics play a very important role in football. Especially nowadays and I wonder if football has moved on and NP hasn't. Obviously hope I am wrong!

[Davefevs]

46 minutes ago, INCRED said:

If by bringing in NP as an experienced manager at this level and reasonably successful with it, why are we not seeing any tangible improvements yet?

Is it NP, the players or perhaps has he been sold a lemon by the board and perhaps is regretting taking the job as his body language and lack of perceived enthusiasm puzzles me 

If we don’t pick up any points in the next couple of games I do wonder if things will come to a head and some questions will be posed of when and how we get out of this awful run and how long the fans are going to tolerate the situation 

The majority I think believed NP would be a good appointment but to date we haven’t seen anything that justifies the fanfare

Something needs to change soon regards are form but I can’t see us getting much from the next few games 

Because sometimes you need to look at the trend of intangible improvements that might lead to tangible improvements next.  Yep, that’s a bolloxy soundbite but I’ve seen improvements in the two games (more v Blackpool than Boro, granted) but I see signs of system, shape, patterns.  Mistakes are costing us, not just goals, sometimes poor decisions in good phases of possession.

A clean sheet would go down very nicely.

I’ve seen lots of things that make him a good appointment, unfortunately not all of it is coming out on the pitch.  He has method and process, but it takes time.  I can’t guarantee it will but I see signs.

 

[firstdivision]

2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

I absolutely guarantee that the people mentioning last season's record wouldn't be doing so if we'd gone unbeaten in the final 10 games of it. Doesn't suit the agenda.

I don't understand what you mean by that comment.

Is the agenda that some supporters are pointing out the fact that NP has overseen two wins since February and we have been an even softer touch under him than the manager before him?

[pjg11]

6 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

@Red Alert

Please advise us how we will be able to buy more players in this transfer window.

The problem is not Lansdown being unable or unwilling to provide the cash.

It is because of FFP in that we are probably either already over or very near the loss limit for the current period of three years or whatever the period is due to Covid.

What is the actual punishment for breaching ffp. Is it that scary or a bogeyman will get you scenario 

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, pjg11 said:

What is the actual punishment for breaching ffp. Is it that scary or a bogeyman will get you scenario 

Depends. If we rename ourselves Wayne Rooney's Bristol City probably a slap on the wrist.

[semblar]

1 hour ago, pjg11 said:

What is the actual punishment for breaching ffp. Is it that scary or a bogeyman will get you scenario 

we have some resident experts, but stuff like transfer embargoes and points deductions...neither of which would be very easy to ignore...

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Unbeaten last ten would have put us anywhere between 7th and 16th.

There's no agenda. The same manager was in place and we dropped like a stone. Said manager also stated that was surprised didn't get more blow back at the time. 

You could say that discounting a manager's performance from the last season is fraudulent by your own metrics as every season managers would start with a clean slate and never get any kind of criticism or analysis as by your metric, none of that matters, which is odd. 

'nutters'  'sacking every few months' 

Why is it that only pro Trump, sorry  avowedly pro NP supporters use incendiary language like this. 

Literally no one has suggested 'sacking managers every few months' aside from those blindly defending NP. 

Odd choice of both words and tactics to try and beatify the currently awful. 

What are people advocating then? Plenty of us know it has to get a lot better but we also know that Pearson is going nowhere. Steve ain’t sacking him. It’s not about blindly defending NP, more a case that some us know he’s here for a while like it or not and realise that getting behind the team is what is needed right now. If you aren’t advocating sacking him then all you are doing is moaning.

We sacked Johnson then Holden and now people want Pearson, all in around 15 months. It is lunacy in my view but feel free to disagree. Remember it’s all coming out of Steve’s sky rocket. Blatantly ignoring the situation with injuries, inexperience, unmotivated players and contract situations is as bad as ignoring the run of results isn’t it?

Not sure where political views entered the discussion tbh? That is odd!!

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, pjg11 said:

What is the actual punishment for breaching ffp. Is it that scary or a bogeyman will get you scenario 

Depends on how serious the breach is

Minimum is a 2 window transfer embargo and a massive fine

But if its a serious breach then its anywhere from a 3 point to 12 point deduction massive fine and long transfer embargo 

[Herta]

On 14/08/2021 at 18:39, TomThumb84 said:

Thank you for simplifying for me. Your initial statement is so much clearer now.

In answer(s) to all your questions just incase they were not rhetoric…

I am thoroughly pissed off at the results and current form

I am not making any excuses for him merely taking the job he has to do in context based on what he was left with.

It is because of his reputation that I am prepared to stand by him over a period of time because I believe his ability as a football manager and his past success and experience makes him the best choice to offer us a football team worthy of the name in the long-run ie over the 3 year contract he signed. I do not believe there is anyone out there better to support us through this transitional period. I would also argue that one league defeat into a new season, and then sacking Pearson (which is what you appear to be suggesting) would possibly represent the most knee-jerk reaction of all time.

Let me know if you need any of the above simplifying for you.

I see I’m dealing with someone who reads ‘Pearson has been disappointing so far and can’t go on like this’ to actually mean ‘Sack him now’

Thats all the problem is here - you need to realise it’s perfectly possible to think and point out it’s been a crock of shit under Pearson so far without wanting him sacked. 

 

 

[Rob k]

6 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

To me, anyway they're questioning whether Pearson is the man to do the things he's promised since taking over.

They're genuine questions from fans who've not seen much to get enthused about, an alarming win loss record and as a few have started to point out whether the game has passed NP by or his priorities have changed post Covid etc. 

No one, or not many are calling for his head yet, however the assumption appears to be from 'devout NP' followers  that this is the only voice that is being spoken, so they chop and change the narrative, to spin a different tale. That's whether ignoring last season, not counting cup games as a loss or deliberately minimising a bad run to include wins but take that from the total anount of matches. 

There's probably loads more I've missed on that too. What those voicing their concerns are not doing is hurling insults around like confetti, nor are they 'moaning' or anything else and is where the 'pro trump' comparison comes in because unless we all follow the leader, dont question, change the narrative to suit and draw an us vs them line then it appears its free reign to insult, cajole and insinuate of others.

There's been some awful posts over the last few days, towards those expressing their worries and concerns. Alot of those concerns are valid, however those who support NP 'blindly' will only ever see this one way, and there's examples of this all over the place. 

We're shit currently in pretty much.every sphere, some will point to stats as being something of a saviour others can quite happily use others metrics to prove differently. 

We all want us to do better, some are questioning whether we have the right man to do so or the methods and that's fair given the awful run we're on. Outside of here as we discussed on Sat, most social media is firmly 'Pearson Out' and that's where the worry should be apposed to considered posts here. 

There is no way that Pearson is getting sacked and if he does that will be me done with BCFC whilst SL is at the helm.

We don’t have that many good players for the amount of money we are forking out, we have to still move players on before bringing players in which won’t be easy. 
 

NP has said it will take 3 windows at least but so far hasn’t even been given to the end of the first by some!!! I find it absolutely laughable 

[Street red]

19 minutes ago, Rob k said:

There is no way that Pearson is getting sacked and if he does that will be me done with BCFC whilst SL is at the helm.

We don’t have that many good players for the amount of money we are forking out, we have to still move players on before bringing players in which won’t be easy. 
 

NP has said it will take 3 windows at least but so far hasn’t even been given to the end of the first by some!!! I find it absolutely laughable 

 Agreed....And those that want Pearsons head ( which won't happen)gave Johnson time after his magnificent losing runs but those that are calling need to remember, How much money was given to the two previous managers over a 4 year period. Guarantee if Pearson had the wedge the previous clowns had we would be in a far better place with a lot more quality. Jamie Vardy isn't doing bad for himself is he what a gem.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Depends on how serious the breach is

Minimum is a 2 window transfer embargo and a massive fine

But if its a serious breach then its anywhere from a 3 point to 12 point deduction massive fine and long transfer embargo 

Plus an additional 9 points if felt to be an aggravated breach….so 21 points possible!

[nellie]

4 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Point 1. is fair enough, but no one is immeasurably safe, we're back to S'OD territory there and I think we can all agree that that's 'no happy place' *shudder*

Point 2. I disagree I still think our squad is awesome and not 'dross'. There's a lot to be excited about, if that potential can be unlocked. It's odd that so many on one hand blame the squad, but then on the other absolve the manager. However that's just me as surely it is up to the management to get best out of them. We clearly aren't doing this currently. 

Point 3. People are looking at metrics as far and wide as results, player development, tactics,  and a myriad of other evidence. They re not hanging hope on 'transfer windows' and a future that currently seems impossible to achieve unless we start performing, or to some actually winning more than 2 games in six months. 

You may find that 'laughable' others have been through this before and don't want to do it again as is their prerogative. 

I have heard a lot of words to describe our squad over the last 2 seasons and i have to congratulate you on being the first to use the word Awesome   

[nellie]

1 minute ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Cheers, loads of youth coming through, lots of proven internationals and players who are more than capable at this level and indeed above.

Plenty of developing talent with some having massive potential. 

That's awesome to me, may not be to others though. 

i agree 100% with the youth that does excite me but until they are proven can you class the squad as awesome ?