Is it time to admit the kids are not good enough

[Red_Alligator]

It seems to me that if our youngsters, along with our experienced players, Manager, Chairman and owner, not to mention the tea lady, the cat and of course many of us supporters had a better grasp of the nuances of FFP, then everything would be far more wholesome at BCFC. 

[Better Red]

TM, Bakinson and HNM all brought in for what maybe 4m - 7m difficult to say.  Gone through our youth system all be it later on and how many started this season - None

Nurse - Sold 

Moreton - Trying to off load

Bell/Conway - will prob go out on loan

Scott - Will struggle to make the bench after next 3 games.

Pring - Can’t get a game and JD is not firing at the moment so never likely to play unless JD injured again.

Jenah - will prob go out on loan if we get a striker in.

Person - not sure what happened to him again not good enough.

O’Leary never make a championship keeper always be no 2 - L1 at best.

If I am so wrong or wide if the mark where are they ? 
 

I did say it won’t be popular it feed up hearing about all these great kids. 
 

Maybe at L1 but not the Championship that’s for sure.

 

 

 

 

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, Better Red said:

Lets all be grown ups.

I have ignored them why don’t you...

Great let’s all ignore each other when we don’t agree...

Just for the record I won’t be putting you on ignore  or anyone else for that matter - why because I am a grown up and also I both welcome and enjoy other people’s opinions  and debate.

Go on give it a go....

Sorry if you can’t read this as you have me on ignore or have been sent to bed... 
 

 

 

I'll happily respect anyone stating an honest opinion. But let's not pretend for a moment that you are. Nobody is daft enough to believe that young players do not improve. You've stated something you very clearly don't believe - and nobody can honestly believe - to seek a bit of attention.

Edited August 14, 2021 by LondonBristolian

[Silvio Dante]

10 minutes ago, Better Red said:

TM, Bakinson and HNM all brought in for what maybe 4m - 7m difficult to say.  Gone through our youth system all be it later on and how many started this season - None

Nurse - Sold 

Moreton - Trying to off load

Bell/Conway - will prob go out on loan

Scott - Will struggle to make the bench after next 3 games.

Pring - Can’t get a game and JD is not firing at the moment so never likely to play unless JD injured again.

Jenah - will prob go out on loan if we get a striker in.

Person - not sure what happened to him again not good enough.

O’Leary never make a championship keeper always be no 2 - L1 at best.

If I am so wrong or wide if the mark where are they ? 
 

I did say it won’t be popular it feed up hearing about all these great kids. 
 

Maybe at L1 but not the Championship that’s for sure.

 

 

 

 

Mate. Have a word with yourself. In terms of Moore, Massengo, Bakinson they are not academy players. Massengo has been in the first team squad since he signed, and was injured pre season hence no involvement - you may recall last year NP playing and praising him, and HNM being one of our one bright spots.

As for the rest 

Scott - played very well first two games and only 18. If he does go out on loan eventually that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean he’s not making it. Do me a favour - show me how many 18 year olds are playing Championship football regularly. You can’t. You’re trying to prove your point by picking on one who is!!

O’Leary - He’s played at this level for a stretch. He’s played exceptionally well at the level down. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but one of our best players is our GK and we can’t play two. 
 

Pearson (it’s Pearson not person) - Involved in pre season. Is he ahead of Weimann currently which is what he’s going for? No. Should he be ahead of an established footballer at this level who we desperately missed last season? No. Does that make him a bad player? No. 
 

Bell/Conway/Jannah - see Pearson 

You appear to think that if someone’s not tearing up the league at 18 they are never going to make it. While simultaneously thinking the one 18 year old who is playing well at this level isn’t going to make it. So, absolutely no reason to keep on 18 year olds who may need loans at lower levels in your opinion.

Here’s a few names for you:

Ben White - Loaned to Newport in L2 at age 18

Jack Grealish- Loaned to Notts County in L1 at age 18

Harvey Barnes - Loaned to MK Dons in L1 at age 18

All played for England in the last 12 months. But as they were only ready for L1 or below at Bell, Pearsons, Scott’s and Conways age I assume Brighton, Villa and Leicester should have let them go.

You’re either a troll or a moron.

[Redrascal2]

2 hours ago, Better Red said:

I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level.

Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me.

Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. 

It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram.

Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee.
Edwards I like but no where near the first team.

Then -

Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see.

Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate 

HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club

O’Leary never will make the first team

Bell - to light weight.

Pearson - where did he go?

The list goes on.

Will any of them actually become a first team player for us?

Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again)

It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard.

The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment.

I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. 

 

 

Well the lack of an academy has certainly not held back Brentford. 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Mate. Have a word with yourself. In terms of Moore, Massengo, Bakinson they are not academy players. Massengo has been in the first team squad since he signed, and was injured pre season hence no involvement - you may recall last year NP playing and praising him, and HNM being one of our one bright spots.

As for the rest 

Scott - played very well first two games and only 18. If he does go out on loan eventually that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean he’s not making it. Do me a favour - show me how many 18 year olds are playing Championship football regularly. You can’t. You’re trying to prove your point by picking on one who is!!

O’Leary - He’s played at this level for a stretch. He’s played exceptionally well at the level down. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but one of our best players is our GK and we can’t play two. 
 

Pearson (it’s Pearson not person) - Involved in pre season. Is he ahead of Weimann currently which is what he’s going for? No. Should he be ahead of an established footballer at this level who we desperately missed last season? No. Does that make him a bad player? No. 
 

Bell/Conway/Jannah - see Pearson 

You appear to think that if someone’s not tearing up the league at 18 they are never going to make it. While simultaneously thinking the one 18 year old who is playing well at this level isn’t going to make it. So, absolutely no reason to keep on 18 year olds who may need loans at lower levels in your opinion.

Here’s a few names for you:

Ben White - Loaned to Newport in L2 at age 18

Jack Grealish- Loaned to Notts County in L1 at age 18

Harvey Barnes - Loaned to MK Dons in L1 at age 18

All played for England in the last 12 months. But as they were only ready for L1 or below at Bell, Pearsons, Scott’s and Conways age I assume Brighton, Villa and Leicester should have let them go.

You’re either a troll or a moron.

Fair play that you even bothered to reason with him / her!

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I try to fairly respectful on OTIB to all posters but we have some effin belters on here tonight.

Most of us realise that the long winless run is poor, but also that so far this season we have been 30 seconds from a home win & lost by the odd goal today.

Hardly a crisis. We could badly do with a win this week but most realise Pearson has limited funds & a tough job on.

I feel I could be posting this every week in response to certain posters at present.

[GrahamC]

@Silvio Dante Alex Scott is actually still 17 for another week yet..

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Most of us realise that the long winless run is poor, but also that so far this season we have been 30 seconds from a home win & lost by the odd goal today.

Hardly a crisis. We could badly do with a win this week but most realise Pearson has limited funds & a tough job on.

I feel I could be posting this every week in response to certain posters at present.

If I miss Geoff’s post-match stuff, I quite often listen back on BBC Sounds app…..for my own sanity should I listen to it?  Was it the usual?

[GrahamC]

Just now, Davefevs said:

If I miss Geoff’s post-match stuff, I quite often listen back on BBC Sounds app…..for my own sanity should I listen to it?  Was it the usual?

In all honesty as it was my birthday today I haven’t listened to anything regarding the game, I  just watched the goals on my phone, so can’t tell you!

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

@Silvio Dante Alex Scott is actually still 17 for another week yet..

My bad. I just don’t like having to edit posts in a weeks time

[Mr Chappers]

So do I take it that a strategy of ditching the Academy and buying in journeymen is proposed? The only way we can afford to challenge consistently is by player development, which requires a degree of patience, especially after a number of very poor purchases and Covid, giving us zero income, and making it harder to shift players off the wage bill.

[Waconda]

12 hours ago, Better Red said:

But probably right.....

For the record I thought bobby looked like a talent and someone who could play at a higher level. Also liked Bryan.

Current crop at best a load of L1 players which might be helpful next year if we don’t sort out this mess.

Alex Scott will be a Premier League player within 3 years - IMO.

Not sure you can be fully aware of the standard of player currently in the BFC youth system. Look how many are representing their countries at youth level.

Brentford is a totally different situation to us, they were losing all of their best academy players to other London clubs due to proximity. Therefore not worth running an academy to develop players for other teams.

We on the other hand have less competition in a far larger geographical area. South Wales - Swindon and Cheltenham - Devon.

 

 

[RedRock]

Always said, invest in scouting and player analysis. Put the remainder of the £xxxxx that it costs to run the Academy into transfer fees for HUNGRY, young, talented players from the lower leagues who are out and out WINNERS.

If 1 in 10 are successes, that ‘hit rate’ far exceeds that of our Academy.

I fully ‘get’ the idea of the Academy, but we just aren’t delivering as AshtonYate and I said decade or so ago. Could things be changing? Possibly - and more optimistic than in the past - but, as always, braced for the ‘always tomorrow’ scenario.
 

Maybe the DNA that runs through the Club is just all wrong, too soft, too accepting of the mediocre which is why it is best to import from elsewhere. 

 

[Better Red]

12 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Mate. Have a word with yourself. In terms of Moore, Massengo, Bakinson they are not academy players. Massengo has been in the first team squad since he signed, and was injured pre season hence no involvement - you may recall last year NP playing and praising him, and HNM being one of our one bright spots.

As for the rest 

Scott - played very well first two games and only 18. If he does go out on loan eventually that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean he’s not making it. Do me a favour - show me how many 18 year olds are playing Championship football regularly. You can’t. You’re trying to prove your point by picking on one who is!!

O’Leary - He’s played at this level for a stretch. He’s played exceptionally well at the level down. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but one of our best players is our GK and we can’t play two. 
 

Pearson (it’s Pearson not person) - Involved in pre season. Is he ahead of Weimann currently which is what he’s going for? No. Should he be ahead of an established footballer at this level who we desperately missed last season? No. Does that make him a bad player? No. 
 

Bell/Conway/Jannah - see Pearson 

You appear to think that if someone’s not tearing up the league at 18 they are never going to make it. While simultaneously thinking the one 18 year old who is playing well at this level isn’t going to make it. So, absolutely no reason to keep on 18 year olds who may need loans at lower levels in your opinion.

Here’s a few names for you:

Ben White - Loaned to Newport in L2 at age 18

Jack Grealish- Loaned to Notts County in L1 at age 18

Harvey Barnes - Loaned to MK Dons in L1 at age 18

All played for England in the last 12 months. But as they were only ready for L1 or below at Bell, Pearsons, Scott’s and Conways age I assume Brighton, Villa and Leicester should have let them go.

You’re either a troll or a moron.

Vyner is 24 so there is a gap of say 5 years where we have produced 1 player - Kelly. 
 

So that’s a good return for say 20m ?
 

Let’s just look at the facts not your optimistic view of the future.

 

Scott will play in the Prem - Based on what? I have watched him twice and again the hype vs the reality- Let’s see if he is in the starting line up Friday - I will say now he want. He is only playing because we are so poor at the moment.

We are bigging up these kids up before they even look like getting into a bottom three Championship club.

Why can’t they get in ? - simple they ain’t good enough. 

it’s not just an opinion it’s largely based on facts.

Maybe I am just able to separate optimism from reality. 

Maybe I am just better at understanding the game then you

Possibly it’s about our level of Intelligence.

Either way not a troll or a moron.

[Tinmans Love Child]

15 hours ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

We need quality signings to come in 

You do realise that’s not happening don’t you?

[Fordy62]

15 hours ago, Better Red said:

But probably right.....

For the record I thought bobby looked like a talent and someone who could play at a higher level. Also liked Bryan.

Current crop at best a load of L1 players which might be helpful next year if we don’t sort out this mess.

When did you first think Bobby looked like he could play at a higher level?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Seems an overreaction by the OP but anyway.

Not good enough or not ready? Big difference between the two.

Bakinson- Still developing, added some goals last season. Certainly fine in the squad.

Massengo- He's not really a goal scoring midfielder but again fine in squad.

O'Leary- Reliable number 2.

Pring- Backup LB but not all that much gametime last season due to injury IIRC.

Semenyo- Don't just judge on goals- assists, energy and versatility are other positives.

Quite like what I've seen from Scott to date.

A lot of the other younger players do need good development loans though IMO. Question how ready some are for the level and the intensity of a Championship season.

Bell, Pearson, Towler etc- Janneh or does his double vs Forest Green keep him in situ for the foreseeable.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red_Alligator]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Seems an overreaction by the OP but anyway.

Not good enough or not ready? Big difference between the two.

Bakinson- Still developing, added some goals last season. Certainly fine in the squad.

Massengo- He's not really a goal scoring midfielder but again fine in squad.

O'Leary- Reliable number 2.

Semenyo- Don't just judge on goals- assists, energy and versatility are other positives.

Quite like what I've seen from Scott to date.

A lot of the other younger players do need good development loans though IMO. Question how ready some are for the level and the intensity of a Championship season.

Bell, Pearson, Towler etc- Janneh or does his double vs Forest Green keep him in situ for the foreseeable.

I'd like to see more of Janneh and Bell this season.

[sh1t_ref_again]

15 hours ago, Better Red said:

I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level.

Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me.

 

 

 

Always hate posts that start off as self indulgent as "I said last (year, week, month)", where the poster seems to be trying to say look at me, I'm so clever, my sage like qualities have been proven correct. Forgets to mention all the sh1t posts that have been way off the mark!

FWIW, think you are way off the mark now and at the moment, one of the things we have is some excellent youngsters, who may push on, assuming people like you are not quick to get on there backs after each miss placed pass or poor game.

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Always hate posts that start off as self indulgent as "I said last (year, week, month)", where the poster seems to be trying to say look at me, I'm so clever, my sage like qualities have been proven correct. Forgets to mention all the sh1t posts that have been way off the mark!

FWIW, think you are way off the mark now and at the moment, one of the things we have is some excellent youngsters, who may push on, assuming people like you are not quick to get on there backs after each miss placed pass or poor game.

 

Like the gambler with the big win, but never mentions all the losing bets and that he’s still out of pocket overall.

[RedRock]

22 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Always hate posts that start off as self indulgent as "I said last (year, week, month)", where the poster seems to be trying to say look at me, I'm so clever, my sage like qualities have been proven correct. Forgets to mention all the sh1t posts that have been way off the mark!

FWIW, think you are way off the mark now and at the moment, one of the things we have is some excellent youngsters, who may push on, assuming people like you are not quick to get on there backs after each miss placed pass or poor game.

 

No it was more  I said this 10+ years ago and was shot down in flames as AshtonYate was and now it is accepted by most the Academy then on reflection wasn’t very good. 
 

Those who now say ‘but, but it is now’ well, there remain still some sceptics. I hope I’m wrong though.

[big dosser]

well how sad to be slating are young players after 3 games of the new season. I wonder how many man u fans were saying the same thing at the start of sir alex career. Anyone who has played or managed football will know young players will only get better with age and the main thing they need is %100 backing and support from us fans. Give them a chance and a good run of games.

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Better Red said:

Vyner is 24 so there is a gap of say 5 years where we have produced 1 player - Kelly. 
 

So that’s a good return for say 20m ?
 

Let’s just look at the facts not your optimistic view of the future.

 

Scott will play in the Prem - Based on what? I have watched him twice and again the hype vs the reality- Let’s see if he is in the starting line up Friday - I will say now he want. He is only playing because we are so poor at the moment.

We are bigging up these kids up before they even look like getting into a bottom three Championship club.

Why can’t they get in ? - simple they ain’t good enough. 

it’s not just an opinion it’s largely based on facts.

Maybe I am just able to separate optimism from reality. 

Maybe I am just better at understanding the game then you

Possibly it’s about our level of Intelligence.

Either way not a troll or a moron.

Just a small tip. If you’re claiming to be more intelligent than the person you’re responding to, it may be appropriate to respond to what they actually said. I didn’t say Scott would play in the prem,  I said he was an 18 year old (ok 17) playing in the championship.

If you’re claiming to be intelligent, you might also realise the phrase is “no he won’t” not “now he want”. 
 

If you’re claiming to be more intelligent, you might want to remember that in the last five years we’ve produced more than one league footballer from the academy.

If you’re claiming to be intelligent, you might want to look up the definition of opinion vs facts. You’re expressing an opinion, not a fact despite what you say.

Actually, If you’re claiming to be intelligent, the best thing for you to do might be to stop digging. Because everything you’ve written suggests the opposite.

[Tookster]

Don't underestimate the value of picking up a win. The team needs confidence and importantly our continued support. We have come close this season. Fingers crossed we can get a win on Friday

[Lrrr]

State of this thread  if there’s one area of the club to not criticise atm it’s the academy and developing young players. The academy is finally seeing the benefit of changes made several years ago now players are coming through to have fully benefitted from these changes.

[SBB]

We wouldn’t have gotten 11 players on the pitch, without our academy last season. 
Shows how spoilt we’ve become when we’ve had multiple academy players at L1 & L2 clubs on loan and we still criticise them, when 10-15 years ago we struggled to provide even 1 or 2 for our own team. 

[Numero Uno]

18 hours ago, Better Red said:

I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level.

Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me.

Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. 

It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram.

Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee.
Edwards I like but no where near the first team.

Then -

Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see.

Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate 

HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club

O’Leary never will make the first team

Bell - to light weight.

Pearson - where did he go?

The list goes on.

Will any of them actually become a first team player for us?

Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again)

It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard.

The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment.

I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. 

 

 

Go and have a lie down. The person who used the term term "effin belters" in their post to describe the stream of over reactionary posts on here was being far too kind imo..............

I'll be honest, I think you are nothing more and nothing less than a troll given the content of this and previous posts.

[jj77]

On 14/08/2021 at 20:28, Better Red said:

But probably right.....

For the record I thought bobby looked like a talent and someone who could play at a higher level. Also liked Bryan.

Current crop at best a load of L1 players which might be helpful next year if we don’t sort out this mess.

I only seen Scott once or twice but I think he looks like he's going to be one hell of a player.

[TheReds]

On 14/08/2021 at 20:16, Better Red said:

I posted last year and said the kids we have just are not good enough for this level.

Got shot down but has anything changed - No not for me.

Not one of them is doing anything in the first team. 

It’s time we had a good look at the academy and maybe even follow the Brentford model and scrap it and just have a B Tram.

Of the current crop the best we have is Seymenyo who can’t score for toffee.
Edwards I like but no where near the first team.

Then -

Scott will never score a goal if he plays 20 games. Needs 2 year on loan in L1 then we will see.

Bakinson no manger likes him due to work rate 

HNM again another who will never score a goal for the club

O’Leary never will make the first team

Bell - to light weight.

Pearson - where did he go?

The list goes on.

Will any of them actually become a first team player for us?

Before every jumps in. Think about we can not win a game in the last 12 months. We had to clear out so much crap and deadwood. They have all had some game time and none them are really what I would call a first team player (Scott won’t start Friday and won’t see him start again)

It’s time to take a look at these kids and think why we only produce players for L1/2 standard.

The days of Bryan,Booby and Kelly look like they are a long way off at the moment.

I know this won’t be popular as everyone loves the kids but I just don’t see it. They are as much of the problem as the recruitment team we have. 

 

 

Semenyo - can't score

Scott - will never score (and we won't see him start again)

O'Leary will never make the first team

I'm guessing you never mentioned Pring & Benarous, because they will never make it.......

 

Bit sad of me bringing up old posts, but just for some clarity, what with you being Mr Right.....