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Is it time to admit the kids are not good enough


Better Red
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1 hour ago, TheReds said:

Semenyo - can't score

Scott - will never score (and we won't see him start again)

O'Leary will never make the first team

I'm guessing you never mentioned Pring & Benarous, because they will never make it.......

 

Bit sad of me bringing up old posts, but just for some clarity, what with you being Mr Right.....

 

That’s why I have him / her on ignore.  There are a lot of posters on OTIB you can disagree with, and have a really good debate with, still disagree with, but appreciate their standpoint.  The post on the previous page sums it up.

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1 hour ago, TheReds said:

Semenyo - can't score

Scott - will never score (and we won't see him start again)

O'Leary will never make the first team

I'm guessing you never mentioned Pring & Benarous, because they will never make it.......

 

Bit sad of me bringing up old posts, but just for some clarity, what with you being Mr Right.....

 

Pring is the player I'd pick out. Strong, takes responsibility and good positional sense. Maybe Scott and Semenyo are more naturally talented, but Pring looks the more comfortable Championship standard at this point IMO

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s why I have him / her on ignore.  There are a lot of posters on OTIB you can disagree with, and have a really good debate with, still disagree with, but appreciate their standpoint.  The post on the previous page sums it up.

Good advice must do the same

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20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s why I have him / her on ignore.  There are a lot of posters on OTIB you can disagree with, and have a really good debate with, still disagree with, but appreciate their standpoint.  The post on the previous page sums it up.

That's the issue, it isn't simply an opinion and then a debate, which is how it should be,

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On 14/08/2021 at 22:06, Better Red said:

TM, Bakinson and HNM all brought in for what maybe 4m - 7m difficult to say.  Gone through our youth system all be it later on and how many started this season - None

Nurse - Sold 

Moreton - Trying to off load

Bell/Conway - will prob go out on loan

Scott - Will struggle to make the bench after next 3 games.

Pring - Can’t get a game and JD is not firing at the moment so never likely to play unless JD injured again.

Jenah - will prob go out on loan if we get a striker in.

Person - not sure what happened to him again not good enough.

O’Leary never make a championship keeper always be no 2 - L1 at best.

If I am so wrong or wide if the mark where are they ? 
 

I did say it won’t be popular it feed up hearing about all these great kids. 
 

Maybe at L1 but not the Championship that’s for sure.

 

 

 

 

Ok - Let’s go through it.

Bakinson - Right I think we all agree

Moreton - Right

Bell - Right

Conway - Right

Pearson - Right

Jenah - Right

Also add Towler - Right

Also add Britton - Right

Scott -  Wrong - Good player like him good touch balance ‘ but’ needs to find his best position or could slip out the team.

Pring - Wrong - Good Player can play at this level -See my Post have we found out left back.

Max - Still not sure (likely Right) I think will end up in L1

Not sure it was that I was way of the mark.

Thanks for digging out. 

If it was to show I get more right than wrong - Thanks


 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Ok - Let’s go through it.

Bakinson - Right I think we all agree

Moreton - Right

Bell - Right

Conway - Right

Pearson - Right

Jenah - Right

Also add Towler - Right

Also add Britton - Right

Scott -  Wrong - Good player like him good touch balance ‘ but’ needs to find his best position or could slip out the team.

Pring - Wrong - Good Player can play at this level -See my Post have we found out left back.

Max - Still not sure (likely Right) I think will end up in L1

Not sure it was that I was way of the mark.

Thanks for digging out. 

If it was to show I get more right than wrong - Thanks


 

 

 

 

 

 

No team which isnt going bust has 10 youth players in the line up! The fact we have 3 regularly playing with two in and around the team on match days completely shows your point to be wrong.

Attention seeking again.

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18 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Ok - Let’s go through it.

Bakinson - Right I think we all agree

Moreton - Right

Bell - Right

Conway - Right

Pearson - Right

Jenah - Right

Also add Towler - Right

Also add Britton - Right

Scott -  Wrong - Good player like him good touch balance ‘ but’ needs to find his best position or could slip out the team.

Pring - Wrong - Good Player can play at this level -See my Post have we found out left back.

Max - Still not sure (likely Right) I think will end up in L1

Not sure it was that I was way of the mark.

Thanks for digging out. 

If it was to show I get more right than wrong - Thanks


 

 

 

 

 

 

One of the worst posts I've ever read,

Why do you think all youth players should be performing at Harland levels

Why don't  you give them a chance to develop

Do you understand how development works?

Do you understand basic biology and how the body grows and gets stronger as you get older?

Do you understand how experience works and that you need to get experience in order to get better? Ie go out on loan?

Do you understand anything about youth development at all?

Because from your post it comes across as if you don't understand a ******* thing about development

Edited by Monkeh
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25 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Ok - Let’s go through it.

Bakinson - Right I think we all agree

Moreton - Right

Bell - Right

Conway - Right

Pearson - Right

Jenah - Right

Also add Towler - Right

Also add Britton - Right

Scott -  Wrong - Good player like him good touch balance ‘ but’ needs to find his best position or could slip out the team.

Pring - Wrong - Good Player can play at this level -See my Post have we found out left back.

Max - Still not sure (likely Right) I think will end up in L1

Not sure it was that I was way of the mark.

Thanks for digging out. 

If it was to show I get more right than wrong - Thanks


 

 

 

 

 

 

Benarous ?

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6 minutes ago, RedHienz said:

No team which isnt going bust has 10 youth players in the line up! The fact we have 3 regularly playing with two in and around the team on match days completely shows your point to be wrong.

Attention seeking again.

Yet if you through it line by line it says something a little different.

Held my hands up -

Pring I really like and can deft play at this level.

Scott could be a great player but worried he’s first team position/minutes could come under threat in the 2nd half of the season still has a 

Max - Not convinced let’s give it 10 games and see if he is still there. He has played less than 10 games at this level. So I am not sure anyone can say he is champ level at this point.

Agree 2 not bad ‘ but’ it was not the story that some on here were pushing and hence my post to readdress the balance and more the reality of the situation. 

Its not ‘attention seeking’

For the record -

1 - This old post was reposted by someone else so have responded.

2 -  I did not mention Bakinson loan until someone quoted me in their post.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Benarous ?

Did even know his name at the start of the season.

But not sure ready at the moment so he is more difficult to judge as not seen enough to make a call.  


First game he was awful and I thought what is he doing even on the pitch ‘but’ in the few games he did play I actually thought he is a maybe liked his effort, attitude and good first touch but is it’s to early this season.

Gut feeling says probably won’t have enough but could be wrong

 

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4 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Did even know his name at the start of the season.

But not sure ready at the moment so he is more difficult to judge as not seen enough to make a call.  


First game he was awful and I thought what is he doing even on the pitch ‘but’ in the few games he did play I actually thought he is a maybe liked his effort, attitude and good first touch but is it’s to early this season.

Gut feeling says probably won’t have enough but could be wrong

 

How could you not have heard of AB name prior to this season? His name has been talked about for the past 2/3 years, he’s had call ups for England…. he’s not just your average player who goes through the academy system. 
 

It’s probably easier just to admit that you’re talking shite. 

Edited by Betty Swallocks
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Also for the record before everyone brings up the Seymenyo post.

What I said was - 

I don’t think he will make a ‘Striker’ at this level as I do think he score enough goals at this level on a regular basis.

To play as a main Striker needs to be at least 12/15 a season

Wide in a three 6/8 would be decent.

‘I like him as a player’ buy for me I said he should play wide in a front three.

Am I right/wrong ?

At the moment looks pretty accurate a side two goals Saturday and they were both very good ( I had not seen that finishing in his game) he ain’t been scoring enough goals playing well - Yes but not enough goals.

I did not see too many re posting my post in 40/50 odd games he has not scored.

Lets see if Saturday can give him the confidence and its the start of proving me wrong and he can score regularly at this level (I would love to be wrong) 

Again like the other post not sure it’s that wide of the mark.

Again all I am saying is what I am seeing on the pitch.

it’s not what I want to happen it’s what ‘I think will happen’

If it is just about what ‘I want’ then will post we will just scrape the playoffs and beat WBA at Wembley to get promotion… but what is that point of that.

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7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

 

You have seen the table…

And the results in both cups.

But yeah you are right the kids are knocking out of the park.

Before you post I am not saying the kids should be getting us in the top six ‘but’ I am saying they ain’t quiet we’re some people are suggesting at the moment.

 

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26 minutes ago, Betty Swallocks said:

How could you not have heard of AB name prior to this season? His name has been talked about for the past 2/3 years, he’s had call ups for England…. he’s not just your average player who goes through the academy system. 
 

It’s probably easier just to admit that you’re talking shite. 

Never saw him play before this season

It’s only fair I watch him play before making a judgement.

Had you watched him before ? So how can you make a judgement on him.

But this does exactly highlight the point I am making he is a great player before anyone actually saw him play… mental

Can people stop saying what ‘they want to see’ and say what they are actually seeing.

We all see the game differently I get that. 
But to many posts are just optimistic view rather than reality.

I am just bringing a little reality based on what we are watching on the pitch.

Im talking shite though…

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The first vhs tape my bruv rented from the video shop on Gilda parade when we got our first video recorder.

What was it called?  Bernco was back of Asda, so it wasn’t that!

I remember it but can’t remember what it was called - what was the first vhs tape your bruv rented? I do remember Norman Hunter’s sports shop on the Gilda Parade in the dim and distant - loved Norm - what a player 

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10 minutes ago, Better Red said:

You have seen the table…

And the results in both cups.

But yeah you are right the kids are knocking out of the park.

Before you post I am not saying the kids should be getting us in the top six ‘but’ I am saying they ain’t quiet we’re some people are suggesting at the moment.

If you are not saying the kids should be getting us in the top 6, why would he need to look at the table?

It comes across as if you are desperate to write off young players as not good enough before they get a chance to actually develop and gain experience playing first team football, whether that is here or on loan elsewhere.

For example, you say about Semenyo "To play as a main Striker needs to be at least 12/15 a season" but "he ain’t been scoring enough goals".

How many games has he played as an out and out striker? You include the games where he's come off the bench and gone in as a front 3 as this. He's played 4 goals as a striker in a row now? He's scored 3 goals. Since he's come back from injury, his hold-up play has been twice as good as Martins, he also has the power and pace to worry teams and his finishing v Fulham shows he does have the ability to strike the ball well off both feet.

We currently have O'Leary, Vyner, Pring, Benarous, Scott, Semenyo, Conway as regulars through our academy (or close enough). O'Leary has been solid while unspectacular, Vyner is a good squad player, but not a 1st teamer, Pring for his first season has been very good, Benarous looks like he's good on the ball but needs to add some physicality, Scott is easily the most composed player on the ball we have + great delivery and has popped up with a few goals already, Semenyo I've mentioned above, Conway had an injury which has probably affected the amount of playing time he could get.

What we want from players out of our academy is 4/5 decent squad players and then 2/3 1st teamers that could get us some big value. I'd say we're getting that exactly. I'd much prefer us to have a team made up like this rather than a load of journeymen.

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12 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Never saw him play before this season

It’s only fair I watch him play before making a judgement.

Had you watched him before ? So how can you make a judgement on him.

But this does exactly highlight the point I am making he is a great player before anyone actually saw him play… mental

Can people stop saying what ‘they want to see’ and say what they are actually seeing.

We all see the game differently I get that. 
But to many posts are just optimistic view rather than reality.

I am just bringing a little reality based on what we are watching on the pitch.

Im talking shite though…

 

 

You said you’d never heard of his name before this season. But, yes I’ve watched games he’s played in before and him and Scott looked a cut above players of a similar age to them. 

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25 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Had you watched him before ? So how can you make a judgement on him.

But this does exactly highlight the point I am making he is a great player before anyone actually saw him play… mental

Can people stop saying what ‘they want to see’ and say what they are actually seeing.

 

1 hour ago, Better Red said:

Ok - Let’s go through it.

Bakinson - Right I think we all agree

Moreton - Right - Injured so harsh to say, had been linked with Martin's MK Dons side

Bell - Right - Wrong

Conway - Right - Wrong

Pearson - Right

Jenah - Right

Also add Towler - Right

Also add Britton - Right

Scott -  Wrong - Good player like him good touch balance ‘ but’ needs to find his best position or could slip out the team.

Pring - Wrong - Good Player can play at this level -See my Post have we found out left back.

Max - Still not sure (likely Right) I think will end up in L1 - Wrong

Not sure it was that I was way of the mark.

Thanks for digging out. 

If it was to show I get more right than wrong - Thanks

Okay I'll jump in, you're mostly wrong, cheers

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The thing is @Better Red, your own list seems to suggest maybe 20% of the academy players coming through are good enough for our first team. That's a pretty darn good conversion ratio to my mind.

When you then add in a good 60-70% of the players that don't become regulars for us will have solid careers elsewhere, probably with sell-on clauses etc. then it seems like a very good investment for the club indeed.

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7 hours ago, Better Red said:

Never saw him play before this season

It’s only fair I watch him play before making a judgement.

Had you watched him before ? So how can you make a judgement on him.

But this does exactly highlight the point I am making he is a great player before anyone actually saw him play… mental

Can people stop saying what ‘they want to see’ and say what they are actually seeing.

We all see the game differently I get that. 
But to many posts are just optimistic view rather than reality.

I am just bringing a little reality based on what we are watching on the pitch.

Im talking shite though…

 

 

Haha! You got Cummingsed. Just when the scandal of your youth post dies down @TheReds is going to drip feed a few more clangers from your back catalogue to stoke the fire and expose you further.

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This strikes me as attention seeking.

He has written off Towler & Bell, for instance (20 & 19) & how anyone can know either way based on the amount of game time they have had, I’ve no idea.

I genuinely would be interested in what he thinks the alternative is to going down this route, more Lansburys & Brunts, as Holden brought in? We lost £38m last year, still have at least 3 players on high money we don’t want but can’t shift & are competing with sides that have parachute payments.

Obviously some won’t make it, Morton (not Moreton) clearly is going to be released, but our success rate is actually high, we moved Nurse on this summer & he’s an automatic choice 1 division down, the calibre of our youngsters is transparently better than in times past.

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9 hours ago, Better Red said:

Never saw him play before this season

It’s only fair I watch him play before making a judgement.

Had you watched him before ? So how can you make a judgement on him.

But this does exactly highlight the point I am making he is a great player before anyone actually saw him play… mental

Can people stop saying what ‘they want to see’ and say what they are actually seeing.

We all see the game differently I get that. 
But to many posts are just optimistic view rather than reality.

I am just bringing a little reality based on what we are watching on the pitch.

Im talking shite though…

 

 

Yes yes you are talking absolute horse shit

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