Dont mention the Manager - you'll get your head bitten off by sour fans

[Fuber]

4 minutes ago, Riaz said:

History repeating itself?

 

Gary Johnson, we were an established top half club - got rid because of the fans. We ended up regretting it...

Lee Johnson we were an established top half club - got rid for not making top 6... and look at us now... gonna struggle...

 

Careful what you wish for indeed.

The only similarity is that compared to turnover both massively overspent. Hence both left us in the sh*t once they left and their assistants were appointed for no apparent reason.

[Nogbad the Bad]

18 minutes ago, Riaz said:

History repeating itself?

Gary Johnson, we were an established top half club - got rid because of the fans. We ended up regretting it...

Lee Johnson we were an established top half club - got rid for not making top 6... and look at us now... gonna struggle...

 

Careful what you wish for indeed.

No regrets at all over Lee Johnson going, his departure was long overdue.

Just hope the club show similar patience and support for NP, it will be worth it imo.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Riaz said:

History repeating itself?

 

Gary Johnson, we were an established top half club - got rid because of the fans. We ended up regretting it...

Lee Johnson we were an established top half club - got rid for not making top 6... and look at us now... gonna struggle...

 

Careful what you wish for indeed.

I wonder if LJ would’ve been prepared to only sign one player for a fee last season, plus sell others….and then have to let 10+ players go and and only be able to sign one more this summer whilst reducing the wage bill, having less players overall?  The answer is “no, he wouldn’t”.  His final interview at Cardiff showed that.  He got given everything he wanted (in the main) here.  He did a decent job on the pitch, but the decline had started under him.

Although I hold him to blame for some things, I genuinely would’ve liked to see him operate under the kind of constraints Nige has now.  I actually think it might’ve improved him.  I don’t dislike LJ, as above he did a decent job on the pitch, but between him, MA and SL they put the club in a very poor position over time.

[Desso]

16 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I reckon the main problem is the coach!. We seemed to play better when transported by the Carroll's coach rather than the Turner coach.  Maybe we should sack Turners and re-employ Carrolls?

Did they have bigger seats?

[bcfcredandwhite]

Wow - this fishing line got quite a few bites........ 

[exAtyeoMax]

33 minutes ago, Riaz said:

History repeating itself?

 

Gary Johnson, we were an established top half club - got rid because of the fans. We ended up regretting it...

Lee Johnson we were an established top half club - got rid for not making top 6... and look at us now... gonna struggle...

 

Careful what you wish for indeed.

But it was SL, JL and MA’s decision to get rid of LJ. 
I didn’t regret getting rid of GJ, it was the shambles that followed that was the problem. 
I’m not going to be made to feel guilty because I want my club to do better. I really don’t understand the point of using LJ as a yardstick, he didn’t get us promoted. As fans you would expect those at the top to make the correct decisions in appointing the right manager/coach, and recruiting the right players, I can’t be held responsible for fact that they don’t. As SL told us to put up and shut up re LJ, why would he ever listen to those more vocal online or even in the stadium? The shambles behind the scenes, as discussed over and over again, was/is the problem. 

[Riaz]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I wonder if LJ would’ve been prepared to only sign one player for a fee last season, plus sell others….and then have to let 10+ players go and and only be able to sign one more this summer whilst reducing the wage bill, having less players overall?  The answer is “no, he wouldn’t”.  His final interview at Cardiff showed that.  He got given everything he wanted (in the main) here.  He did a decent job on the pitch, but the decline had started under him.

Although I hold him to blame for some things, I genuinely would’ve liked to see him operate under the kind of constraints Nige has now.  I actually think it might’ve improved him.  I don’t dislike LJ, as above he did a decent job on the pitch, but between him, MA and SL they put the club in a very poor position over time.

I'm not judging Pearson by the way. I'm fully behind him - just making the point, that both johnsons were doing better than the fan base gave them credit for.

I agree Pearson has been dealt a tricky set of cards, so to speak,

[Rudolf Hucker]

On 15/08/2021 at 08:09, Hampshire reds said:

To be fair to Hampshire red. its my posts that gets the stick. i think some on hear should notice the difference between Red and Reds. 

 

On 14/08/2021 at 21:11, Hampshire Red said:

I am not going to start a post on our current manager but someone with a similar name to me did earlier.

 

On 15/08/2021 at 00:08, Top Robin said:

I know Hampshire Red and whilst he may divide opinion, he is one of the most passionate City fans I have ever known 

 

When the reds, Red, Top Robin comes bob-bob-bobbin along ... 

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I'm not judging Pearson by the way. I'm fully behind him - just making the point, that both johnsons were doing better than the fan base gave them credit for.

I agree Pearson has been dealt a tricky set of cards, so to speak,

Ta, and likewise I don’t think LJ was the devil incarnate either.  He did some good things here.

[chinapig]

48 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Although I hold him to blame for some things, I genuinely would’ve liked to see him operate under the kind of constraints Nige has now.  I actually think it might’ve improved him.  I don’t dislike LJ, as above he did a decent job on the pitch, but between him, MA and SL they put the club in a very poor position over time.

Was thinking much the same yesterday. Had Gould been CEO, had Steve set out a more, dare I say, rigorous, set of targets and if we had had a head of recruitment who was actually qualified and working to an agreed plan I think the outcome might have been different.

Still, the damage has been done and the blame ultimately rests with Steve.

[maxjak]

No Pace, No Width No Kalas...........I find myself more or less agreeing with most of today's Matt Withers article on the Bristol Post website, especailly the lack of leadership and pace comments that are made.  However I would make the point that until the transfer window closes in 2 weeks time, NP has the opportunity to resolve some of the outstanding issues that currently exist within the squad, which hopefully he can rectify. So until then, personally i will reserve judgement.   

If he does not correct the glaring inadequacies within the squad, and our formation setup's and team selections.........I might start to worry. PS His reference to the Gregor  issue, i find myselfI wholeheartedly agreeing with.  

[Top Robin]

58 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

 

 

 

When the reds, Red, Top Robin comes bob-bob-bobbin along ... 

That was so bad it made me chuckle!

[Major Isewater]

Uncle Steve is not going to pull the rug out from under Pearson’s feet any time soon so all you nervous Nellies need to get behind the team and accept that we are in a deep transitional phase and things may not be pretty in the immediate future.

 

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I wonder if LJ would’ve been prepared to only sign one player for a fee last season, plus sell others….and then have to let 10+ players go and and only be able to sign one more this summer whilst reducing the wage bill, having less players overall?  The answer is “no, he wouldn’t”.  His final interview at Cardiff showed that.  He got given everything he wanted (in the main) here.  He did a decent job on the pitch, but the decline had started under him.

Although I hold him to blame for some things, I genuinely would’ve liked to see him operate under the kind of constraints Nige has now.  I actually think it might’ve improved him.  I don’t dislike LJ, as above he did a decent job on the pitch, but between him, MA and SL they put the club in a very poor position over time.

It's completely bizarre how LJ did best under constraints. It's like fate handed him the best hand it could i.e. Reid.

Then he ignored the benefits i.e the press system, and completely missed the memo.

Multiple chances to implement a specific style. Instead he thought he gods greatest gift to football since Guardiola and decided he could counter every team he went up against.

Which in turn completely shafted his long term future with us, as well as the club itself.

[Red_Alligator]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I wonder if LJ would’ve been prepared to only sign one player for a fee last season, plus sell others….and then have to let 10+ players go and and only be able to sign one more this summer whilst reducing the wage bill, having less players overall?  The answer is “no, he wouldn’t”.  His final interview at Cardiff showed that.  He got given everything he wanted (in the main) here.  He did a decent job on the pitch, but the decline had started under him.

Although I hold him to blame for some things, I genuinely would’ve liked to see him operate under the kind of constraints Nige has now.  I actually think it might’ve improved him.  I don’t dislike LJ, as above he did a decent job on the pitch, but between him, MA and SL they put the club in a very poor position over time.

Indeed Dave, that's where we find ourselves and it leaves NP in a tight spot - particularly regarding signings, which some seem to think can be done immediately and without the need to sell first or stay within FFP rules. 

As things are, having a billionaire owner doesn't automatically mean that the club can bring in players as required. 

On top of that I wouldn't blame SL for being cautious with spending on recruitment, given what's happened over the last few years!.

Hopefully with a more considered approach to the above, the club can move forward. But it's a harsh lesson, which ultimately leaves us all having to suffer the repercussions. 

It doesn't stop us from getting behind the Manager and the players though, even if at times it feels counterintuitive.

We did it in the early to mid eighties. We need to do it again.

[Major Isewater]

46 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Ah the rehashed 'you're not a true supporter unless you blind faith' discussion

That is not at all what I wrote but you win a gold medal  in the ‘jumping to conclusions’ évent.

I am merely pointing out that Pearson isn’t going anywhere soon so there is little point in discussing a change or getting all het up because we aren’t winning matches at the moment.

 I am afraid we just have to accept that things are not perfect at the moment and somehow try to find some positives.

Nobody associated with the club is blind to our results and yes things could get worrying but I suggest after three matches , 2 losses and a draw, that there is time to improve. 

I would also like to apologise for my deeply offensive remark  and hope that anyone who was hurt by it recovers very soon.

 

[Red_Alligator]

17 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

That is not at all what I wrote but you win a gold medal  in the ‘jumping to conclusions’ évent.

I am merely pointing out that Pearson isn’t going anywhere soon so there is little point in discussing a change or getting all het up because we aren’t winning matches at the moment.

 I am afraid we just have to accept that things are not perfect at the moment and somehow try to find some positives.

Nobody associated with the club is blind to our results and yes things could get worrying but I suggest after three matches , 2 losses and a draw, that there is time to improve. 

I would also like to apologise for my deeply offensive remark  and hope that anyone who was hurt by it recovers very soon.

 

No need for apologies Major.

There are too many sickly soft centres in this box of chocolates, and not nearly enough with nuts.

[Fordy62]

47 minutes ago, Fuber said:

It's completely bizarre how LJ did best under constraints. It's like fate handed him the best hand it could i.e. Reid.

Then he ignored the benefits i.e the press system, and completely missed the memo.

Multiple chances to implement a specific style. Instead he thought he gods greatest gift to football since Guardiola and decided he could counter every team he went up against.

Which in turn completely shafted his long term future with us, as well as the club itself.

Genuinely like someone wrote down a winning formula on a piece of paper for him and everything was going swimmingly, but then he lost said piece of paper and had absolutely no idea what it said. Shame really. 

[bcfcredandwhite]

We are 2 managers, 2 seasons and 3 transfer windows forward from LJ and yet he is still used to excuse Pearson for poor performances!!

LJ knew what he was getting into when he signed - he knew that he worked under the constraints of Ashton and that his most influential players would be sold from under him. He went into it with his eyes wide open and ultimately paid the price for not delivering what he promised. Plenty of people on here (and other forums) had little or no sympathy for him because it's a results business and his results and performances had dried up. However, with that 'crap' squad he DID manage to get enough wins and points for us to be in the top half of the table. 

Likewise with Pearson; he had half of last season to meet the squad, to understand their strengths and weaknesses and to try different formations and combinations with them in a relatively safe environment (we were unlikely to get relegated due to the points we had gained after a bright start to the season). Not many managers are afforded that luxury - and if he didn't like what was on offer he could have walked away at the end of the season with no disgrace.
After being fully aware of what he was taking on, knowing Steve L, the players, the club, the recruitment policies, the budget, the training facilities, the medical staff, the tea lady etc etc, he still signed up for it. He, like LJ - and EVERY football manager, knows that football is a results business and every week we fail to win will be another black mark against him, but he still signed up.

Now, it's FAR too early to be seriously talking about a sacking, but I for one will not use LJ and Ashton as an excuse for Nigel Pearson's Bristol City continuing to get poor results. It's Nigel's team now and he carries as much of the can as any football manager. It's not LJ who picks the sides, it's not LJ who drops senior internationally recognised and respected players like Kalas and Nagy and then is afforded the excuse that he inherited a crap squad. Nigel has to stand up and justify his selections, tactics and results.

I still believe in Nigel Pearson and really think he will turn things around. However, if he doesn't then it will be Nigel Pearson's fault and ultimately Steve L's, not the fault of the current Sunderland manager.  

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

We are 2 managers, 2 seasons and 3 transfer windows forward from LJ and yet he is still used to excuse Pearson for poor performances!!

LJ knew what he was getting into when he signed - he knew that he worked under the constraints of Ashton and that his most influential players would be sold from under him. He went into it with his eyes wide open and ultimately paid the price for not delivering what he promised. Plenty of people on here (and other forums) had little or no sympathy for him because it's a results business and his results and performances had dried up. However, with that 'crap' squad he DID manage to get enough wins and points for us to be in the top half of the table. 

Likewise with Pearson; he had half of last season to meet the squad, to understand their strengths and weaknesses and to try different formations and combinations with them in a relatively safe environment (we were unlikely to get relegated due to the points we had gained after a bright start to the season). Not many managers are afforded that luxury - and if he didn't like what was on offer he could have walked away at the end of the season with no disgrace.
After being fully aware of what he was taking on, knowing Steve L, the players, the club, the recruitment policies, the budget, the training facilities, the medical staff, the tea lady etc etc, he still signed up for it. He, like LJ - and EVERY football manager, knows that football is a results business and every week we fail to win will be another black mark against him, but he still signed up.

Now, it's FAR too early to be seriously talking about a sacking, but I for one will not use LJ and Ashton as an excuse for Nigel Pearson's Bristol City continuing to get poor results. It's Nigel's team now and he carries as much of the can as any football manager. It's not LJ who picks the sides, it's not LJ who drops senior internationally recognised and respected players like Kalas and Nagy and then is afforded the excuse that he inherited a crap squad. Nigel has to stand up and justify his selections, tactics and results.

I still believe in Nigel Pearson and really think he will turn things around. However, if he doesn't then it will be Nigel Pearson's fault and ultimately Steve L's, not the fault of the current Sunderland manager.  

Funny isn’t it… it’s NP’s squad now… but what was the very first thing LJ said when he was appointed as head coach, don’t you recall?

[bcfcredandwhite]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Funny isn’t it… it’s NP’s squad now… but what was the very first thing LJ said when he was appointed as head coach, don’t you recall?

I wasn't aware of that, but yes - he was right. When you inherit a squad outside the transfer window you have to play what you have been given, or get loans in. Luckily LJ got Tammy in.  
If NP said that too as soon as he arrived he'd be right too. He brought Simpson in, but the rest of the squad he was stuck with was DHs. However, he can't use that claim now because he's had the summer window to impose himself - and he has done - we have got rid of quite a few players and brought a couple in.

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I wasn't aware of that, but yes - he was right. When you inherit a squad outside the transfer window you have to play what you have been given, or get loans in. Luckily LJ got Tammy in.  
If NP said that too as soon as he arrived he'd be right too. He brought Simpson in, but the rest of the squad he was stuck with was DHs. However, he can't use that claim now because he's had the summer window to impose himself - and he has done - we have got rid of quite a few players and brought a couple in.

Well it’s not really comparable is it? LJ said he wanted 3 transfer windows. And LJ has untold amounts of money to play with (see trebling of wage bill). 

NP not only has no transfer budget, but has to reduce it - because of Lee’s spending. 

Not exactly the most comparable thing in the world is it?

[Unan]

On 15/08/2021 at 04:33, Oh Louie louie said:

Did you hear about the spotty guy who ordered a taxi?

Sent him a acne cab......

Got a mate who we still call Taxi, was always the spottiest kid in school despite being 6’4, built like a brick shit house & being incredibly photogenic minus the spots..

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

We are 2 managers, 2 seasons and 3 transfer windows forward from LJ and yet he is still used to excuse Pearson for poor performances!!

LJ knew what he was getting into when he signed - he knew that he worked under the constraints of Ashton and that his most influential players would be sold from under him. He went into it with his eyes wide open and ultimately paid the price for not delivering what he promised. Plenty of people on here (and other forums) had little or no sympathy for him because it's a results business and his results and performances had dried up. However, with that 'crap' squad he DID manage to get enough wins and points for us to be in the top half of the table. 

Likewise with Pearson; he had half of last season to meet the squad, to understand their strengths and weaknesses and to try different formations and combinations with them in a relatively safe environment (we were unlikely to get relegated due to the points we had gained after a bright start to the season).

but then had to release several, without being able to replace.  It’s not black and white I admit.  But where the hell was common sense when a £5.3m striker is allowed to wind down his contract, in Covid times, going on a free leaving no money to bring in a replacement.  I thought Fam was a waster here, but the financial implication of SL and MA’s decision was ludicrous.  We have 18-24 months to get a fee for him….the longer it dragged on the lower the fee.  We got a big fat zero.

In reality, the squad he got to “test and learn” with wasn’t the squad he would have over pre-season.  It had Lansbury, Mariappa, Sessegnon, Hunt, Diedhiou, Paterson, Rowe….even Watkins and Walsh for a few minutes.  So test and learn was pre-season, when O’Dowda, Martin, Williams, Weimann, Baker (re-signed), came back.

It probably was a free hit results / relegation wise, but it wasn’t a free period to drill this season.

Hence my view that although we can’t ignore last season’s end, it’s largely irrelevant.

Not many managers are afforded that luxury - and if he didn't like what was on offer he could have walked away at the end of the season with no disgrace.
After being fully aware of what he was taking on, knowing Steve L, the players, the club, the recruitment policies, the budget, the training facilities, the medical staff, the tea lady etc etc, he still signed up for it. He, like LJ - and EVERY football manager, knows that football is a results business and every week we fail to win will be another black mark against him, but he still signed up.

He did, I wonder who else might have though?

Now, it's FAR too early to be seriously talking about a sacking, but I for one will not use LJ and Ashton as an excuse for Nigel Pearson's Bristol City continuing to get poor results.

I will, but include SL too, as the three presided on a piss-poor executing of the financial sustainability strategy, although most of it finally executed by Ashton….the seeds sewn by the 3 of them though.

It's Nigel's team now and he carries as much of the can as any football manager.

It is his team, but not all his players.  Luckily he fully accepts responsibility for that, doesn’t bleat, gets on with it as best as possible.

It's not LJ who picks the sides, it's not LJ who drops senior internationally recognised and respected players like Kalas and Nagy and then is afforded the excuse that he inherited a crap squad. Nigel has to stand up and justify his selections, tactics and results.

As above he does, and he explains the reasons / selection policy.

I still believe in Nigel Pearson and really think he will turn things around. However, if he doesn't then it will be Nigel Pearson's fault and ultimately Steve L's, not the fault of the current Sunderland manager.

Nige will take the blame, he’s that type of bloke, but you can still trace back to previous regimes.  Just like we praised Cotts 14/15 side we paid respects to SOD’s foundations.

 

[Simon79]

28 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Funny isn’t it… it’s NP’s squad now… but what was the very first thing LJ said when he was appointed as head coach, don’t you recall?

I believe he said it would take 3 transfer windows to deliver his squad, or words to that affect wasn’t it? The difference though, that in the meantime, he won some games. I would just like to state, I’m fully behind Pearson. I’m someone who likes consistency on the manager front, unless I see some real warning signs. I was behind LJ, even at the end ( know your not his biggest fan ), but I can understand the decision that was made, where as I didn’t like the Holden appointment, saw some worrying things in his caretaker role, which ultimately carried on into his permanent role. Back to Pearson, ultimately he has to win some games to give him self some time to implement whatever it is he wants to implement, just win some games, not get us into the playoffs. He has his hands tied in some ways, because of the financial impact Covid has had, more so than anything LJ did ( not forgetting there was a manager in between!). Nobody knew a global pandemic was on its way, so I presume we spent what could be afforded at the time. The club (owner) chose to go down the route of seemingly stockpiling potential gems to then make a future profit on. That hasn’t materialised on a number of transfers, but that was the club’s decision to go down that route. I’m sure most managers would like seasoned championship pros rather than young potential, which now seems to be the way we may be going. So ultimately we have to be patient with what we are seeing, but he has in my opinion a reasonable squad to deliver Championship safety at the very least. COYR 

[Major Isewater]

35 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Oh my, well that certainly awoken a lovely response. 

"Must not have own views, discussion.... abort, abort" 

No one, literally anywhere on here is suggesting that things are sweetness and light. What I have seen though is lots of personal jibes, sarcasm and insult when people dont follow an ' in Pearson we trust' and arent trying to reframe a discourse as its 'only' 3 games. 

It isn't, and people are taking time to question what they've seen, analyse it and found wanting answers. 

Many fans especially on here have seen people /posters/managers etc try and stop the ship sinking using a sieve before. 

Hopefully NP will turn it around, however those not blindly behind him are rightly asking questions and not putting in 'blind faith'. 

 

Just for the hard of understanding, everyone associated with the club is asking questions.

There is no ‘ blind faith ‘ but equally no advantage to enter into a spiral of negativity and depression which would make it even harder to turn things round. 
 

Everyone is entitled to their own views so why are you trolling me when I express mine ?

[bcfcredandwhite]

We are 2 managers, 2 seasons and 3 transfer windows forward from LJ and yet he is still used to excuse Pearson for poor performances!!

LJ knew what he was getting into when he signed - he knew that he worked under the constraints of Ashton and that his most influential players would be sold from under him. He went into it with his eyes wide open and ultimately paid the price for not delivering what he promised. Plenty of people on here (and other forums) had little or no sympathy for him because it's a results business and his results and performances had dried up. However, with that 'crap' squad he DID manage to get enough wins and points for us to be in the top half of the table. 

Likewise with Pearson; he had half of last season to meet the squad, to understand their strengths and weaknesses and to try different formations and combinations with them in a relatively safe environment (we were unlikely to get relegated due to the points we had gained after a bright start to the season).

but then had to release several, without being able to replace.  It’s not black and white I admit.  But where the hell was common sense when a £5.3m striker is allowed to wind down his contract, in Covid times, going on a free leaving no money to bring in a replacement.  I thought Fam was a waster here, but the financial implication of SL and MA’s decision was ludicrous.  We have 18-24 months to get a fee for him….the longer it dragged on the lower the fee.  We got a big fat zero.

Agreed - but that happened after LJ left - and Fam, whatever people think of him was our top scorer (or it might be second-top). It's also difficult to compare the financial situation between the regimes; Covid has drastically reduced the available transfer funds in the whole of FOOTBALL, not just Bristol City. All players stock are falling - a £10m player in 2019 will now cost £3-4m. It's a different universe (apart from the newly relegated teams with their parachute payments)

In reality, the squad he got to “test and learn” with wasn’t the squad he would have over pre-season.  It had Lansbury, Mariappa, Sessegnon, Hunt, Diedhiou, Paterson, Rowe….even Watkins and Walsh for a few minutes.  So test and learn was pre-season, when O’Dowda, Martin, Williams, Weimann, Baker (re-signed), came back.

He (NP) would have had a big say in whether or not to retain those players - Ashton was off the scene by then so NP was in control - they weren't taken out from under him. He 'tested' them and then chose to get rid of them, and/or not renew their contracts. 

It probably was a free hit results / relegation wise, but it wasn’t a free period to drill this season.

Hence my view that although we can’t ignore last season’s end, it’s largely irrelevant.

Sorry but I disagree. Difference of opinion here. I can't see why last season's end is irrelevant, but it's start isn't - and neither is the whole season before - just last season's end....?

Not many managers are afforded that luxury - and if he didn't like what was on offer he could have walked away at the end of the season with no disgrace.
After being fully aware of what he was taking on, knowing Steve L, the players, the club, the recruitment policies, the budget, the training facilities, the medical staff, the tea lady etc etc, he still signed up for it. He, like LJ - and EVERY football manager, knows that football is a results business and every week we fail to win will be another black mark against him, but he still signed up.

He did, I wonder who else might have though?

I was happy with Pearson's appointment - and still am. I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head who was available at the time who I would have preferred. I'm not bashing Pearson here - just pointing out that LJ is long gone and less relevant than SOME people are making him.  

Now, it's FAR too early to be seriously talking about a sacking, but I for one will not use LJ and Ashton as an excuse for Nigel Pearson's Bristol City continuing to get poor results.

I will, but include SL too, as the three presided on a piss-poor executing of the financial sustainability strategy, although most of it finally executed by Ashton….the seeds sewn by the 3 of them though.

You and several others. That's your choice. I expect LJ will be blamed for everything going wrong at the club for many more seasons to come - long after Sunderland leapfrog us into the Prem. Again, I'm not 'bigging up' LJ either - just bemused that some people on this and other sites continue to blame him for performances on the pitch. Every season, transfer window, match and training day that passes it's been less and less to do with LJ.

It's Nigel's team now and he carries as much of the can as any football manager.

It is his team, but not all his players.  Luckily he fully accepts responsibility for that, doesn’t bleat, gets on with it as best as possible.

I agree - some fans do the bleating for him - but you're correct, he doesn't really moan too much.

It's not LJ who picks the sides, it's not LJ who drops senior internationally recognised and respected players like Kalas and Nagy and then is afforded the excuse that he inherited a crap squad. Nigel has to stand up and justify his selections, tactics and results.

As above he does, and he explains the reasons / selection policy.

Hmm - not sure he's given a good reason why he won't play Kalas, but if you're satisfied then fair enough. It's all about individual opinions.

I still believe in Nigel Pearson and really think he will turn things around. However, if he doesn't then it will be Nigel Pearson's fault and ultimately Steve L's, not the fault of the current Sunderland manager.

Nige will take the blame, he’s that type of bloke, but you can still trace back to previous regimes.  Just like we praised Cotts 14/15 side we paid respects to SOD’s foundations.

That's good then, so we can thank SL, MA, LJ and DH for affording  NP a solid championship starting point to move on from  

[Red-Robbo]

On 14/08/2021 at 21:18, Silvio Dante said:

I think you’ll find you did just start a thread about our current manager. The clue was when you said “Manager” in the thread title.

I look forward to you not mentioning Tomas Kalas by starting a “Don’t mention Kalas” thread.

 

Don't mention the Warnock.  I did once, but I think I got away with it...

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

We are 2 managers, 2 seasons and 3 transfer windows forward from LJ and yet he is still used to excuse Pearson for poor performances!!

LJ knew what he was getting into when he signed - he knew that he worked under the constraints of Ashton and that his most influential players would be sold from under him. He went into it with his eyes wide open and ultimately paid the price for not delivering what he promised. Plenty of people on here (and other forums) had little or no sympathy for him because it's a results business and his results and performances had dried up. However, with that 'crap' squad he DID manage to get enough wins and points for us to be in the top half of the table. 

Likewise with Pearson; he had half of last season to meet the squad, to understand their strengths and weaknesses and to try different formations and combinations with them in a relatively safe environment (we were unlikely to get relegated due to the points we had gained after a bright start to the season).

but then had to release several, without being able to replace.  It’s not black and white I admit.  But where the hell was common sense when a £5.3m striker is allowed to wind down his contract, in Covid times, going on a free leaving no money to bring in a replacement.  I thought Fam was a waster here, but the financial implication of SL and MA’s decision was ludicrous.  We have 18-24 months to get a fee for him….the longer it dragged on the lower the fee.  We got a big fat zero.

Agreed - but that happened after LJ left - and Fam, whatever people think of him was our top scorer (or it might be second-top). It's also difficult to compare the financial situation between the regimes; Covid has drastically reduced the available transfer funds in the whole of FOOTBALL, not just Bristol City. All players stock are falling - a £10m player in 2019 will now cost £3-4m. It's a different universe (apart from the newly relegated teams with their parachute payments)

yes, not all my beef is with Lee Johnson, I liked some of the things he did.  Even the CEO who’s a complete tosspot did some decent things too, but….

The CEO and owner completely misread the Covid situation and dealt the current manager with a shit hand.  Fair play to Nige for taking on the challenge.  My points above weren’t aimed at LJ.

In reality, the squad he got to “test and learn” with wasn’t the squad he would have over pre-season.  It had Lansbury, Mariappa, Sessegnon, Hunt, Diedhiou, Paterson, Rowe….even Watkins and Walsh for a few minutes.  So test and learn was pre-season, when O’Dowda, Martin, Williams, Weimann, Baker (re-signed), came back.

He (NP) would have had a big say in whether or not to retain those players - Ashton was off the scene by then so NP was in control - they weren't taken out from under him. He 'tested' them and then chose to get rid of them, and/or not renew their contracts.

Yep, and if he felt they weren’t what he wanted, then he was right not to try and renew players he didn’t need.  The point I’m making is the first time he got to learn about THIS group of players as a Group was the summer.  

It probably was a free hit results / relegation wise, but it wasn’t a free period to drill this season.

Hence my view that although we can’t ignore last season’s end, it’s largely irrelevant.

Sorry but I disagree. Difference of opinion here. I can't see why last season's end is irrelevant, but it's start isn't - and neither is the whole season before - just last season's end....?

Because the players available to him last season are hugely different to the current group.  If he’d retained all the players, and went into this season with the same group and the returning injured players then there is some continuity from last season to this.  I’m not ignoring last season, I’m just saying it has a very visible start and end, with little continuity from one season to the next….and as such we are only two games into it, and I’ve seen positives, that he’s having some influence, albeit slowly.  I’m cool we may differ in our opinion on this.

Not many managers are afforded that luxury - and if he didn't like what was on offer he could have walked away at the end of the season with no disgrace.
After being fully aware of what he was taking on, knowing Steve L, the players, the club, the recruitment policies, the budget, the training facilities, the medical staff, the tea lady etc etc, he still signed up for it. He, like LJ - and EVERY football manager, knows that football is a results business and every week we fail to win will be another black mark against him, but he still signed up.

He did, I wonder who else might have though?

I was happy with Pearson's appointment - and still am. I can't think of anyone else off the top of my head who was available at the time who I would have preferred. I'm not bashing Pearson here - just pointing out that LJ is long gone and less relevant than SOME people are making him.

Yep, Nige gone in with his eyes wide open….in many respects advising SL how he wants it to work, and we can assume SL agreed / bought into it.  I cannot absolve LJ from the financial situation we now find ourselves in though.  I look forward to reading his 3 books when they come out!

Now, it's FAR too early to be seriously talking about a sacking, but I for one will not use LJ and Ashton as an excuse for Nigel Pearson's Bristol City continuing to get poor results.

I will, but include SL too, as the three presided on a piss-poor executing of the financial sustainability strategy, although most of it finally executed by Ashton….the seeds sewn by the 3 of them though.

You and several others. That's your choice. I expect LJ will be blamed for everything going wrong at the club for many more seasons to come - long after Sunderland leapfrog us into the Prem. Again, I'm not 'bigging up' LJ either - just bemused that some people on this and other sites continue to blame him for performances on the pitch. Every season, transfer window, match and training day that passes it's been less and less to do with LJ.

as I continually write, I don’t blame LJ for everything, I blame him for some things, and in that blame I make him part-blame.  Holden had his hand tied, partly by Covid, partly by the over-spending (costs grew too quickly)….Pearson even more.  I rarely blame LJ in isolation.  I blame his for changing tactics every game, but then I also include blaming MA in that for then letting him buy another player and another.  Our CEO is at the centre of it.

It's Nigel's team now and he carries as much of the can as any football manager.

It is his team, but not all his players.  Luckily he fully accepts responsibility for that, doesn’t bleat, gets on with it as best as possible.

I agree - some fans do the bleating for him - but you're correct, he doesn't really moan too much.

yep, it’s weird, it’s like Nige is a whinger, when he’s anything but.  Think some are piggybacking off of the Gregor / Nige spat

It's not LJ who picks the sides, it's not LJ who drops senior internationally recognised and respected players like Kalas and Nagy and then is afforded the excuse that he inherited a crap squad. Nigel has to stand up and justify his selections, tactics and results.

As above he does, and he explains the reasons / selection policy.

Hmm - not sure he's given a good reason why he won't play Kalas, but if you're satisfied then fair enough. It's all about individual opinions.

Because Atkinson and Baker got possession of the CB positions over pre-season, and he will wait for Kalas to either impress (he did at FGR) and / or Baker and Atkinson to drop off in form , or Nige decides Kalas is the better option.  That’s what Nige has told us, we either accept that or not.  Most of us would agree that if Kalas had been around all summer he’d have undoubtedly staked his claim, and have started this season.  Dressing rooms can be funny places if someone is seen to have been treated unfairly, or not picked on merit.  If Nige has set his stall out re how players keep their places, how they lose it and how others get their chances then so be it.

I still believe in Nigel Pearson and really think he will turn things around. However, if he doesn't then it will be Nigel Pearson's fault and ultimately Steve L's, not the fault of the current Sunderland manager.

Nige will take the blame, he’s that type of bloke, but you can still trace back to previous regimes.  Just like we praised Cotts 14/15 side we paid respects to SOD’s foundations.

That's good then, so we can thank SL, MA, LJ and DH for affording  NP a solid championship starting point to move on from

He certainly has a squad that should not be relegated.  There are some good players he’s inherited….Bentley, Dasilva, Bakinson and Massengo, etc.  We are left with a couple on big contracts who probably wouldn’t be here if we could shift them.  LJ didn’t leave cupboard bare in terms of players, but he helped make it more difficult to build a squad for financial reasons.

Hopefully my comments to your red ones show up properly in italics, thanks for taking time to respond.

[Gumpster1]

Probably got a point that many of those baying for LJ and Holden to get the sack are now setting their sights on NP.

Personally don't agree but no problem with any fans that do this. Being a fan, buying your season ticket/match day ticket/ shirt etc gives you the right to have an opinion and to change it as many times as you like. 

All of us are guilty of it. I remember 20,000 fans singing “sign him on” for Casey Palmer and Lee Tomlin. Demanding that if SL had any ambition he had to sign them. That turned out well...

I think that football is about passion, opinions and knee jerk reactions. Let the owners, board and manager be professional. As fans we have the right to say stupid things occasionally and be inconsistent.