Antione Semenyo

[BTRFTG]

8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If you had to predict Semenyo's career trajectory, where do you see him playing in his career

Lower 3rd/4th tier.

Problem being if he continues to turn out for us it'll be with us.

You seem to think I have it in for Semenyo, that I want him to fail. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'd love him to succeed, to see City succeed, for him to make money for us. Point being in the best part of 60 years watching football it's not difficult to spot those who can, those who can't, all without recourse to finding excuses. Semenyo, sadly for him and us, is a lower league footballer.

[BasSavage88]

37 minutes ago, Selred said:

So what? He has the raw attributes to make us millions. 

Name one attribute. As it isnt assists or scoring

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Lower 3rd/4th tier.

Problem being if he continues to turn out for us it'll be with us.

You seem to think I have it in for Semenyo, that I want him to fail. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'd love him to succeed, to see City succeed, for him to make money for us. Point being in the best part of 60 years watching football it's not difficult to spot those who can, those who can't, all without recourse to finding excuses. Semenyo, sadly for him and us, is a lower league footballer.

Ok great well I'm glad you don't want him to fail. I did think your posts read like you had a bit of an agenda about him and were looking for things to support that.

Let's hope he exceeds your expectations. 

[Selred]

5 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

Name one attribute. As it isnt assists or scoring

Pace. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Semenyo is nearer 22 than 21.

This will be his 5th Season, newbie he ain't.

Last season, previously having struggled in lower leagues,  was his test as Championship material .

He played 44 times. He scored twice and whilst good effort in closing from him for his goals both were fluke blocks from failed keeper clearances, nothing to do with City creating goals. If you like the 'expected goals' stats he only managed just over 4 on that count.

"But he's not a striker, he's a provider..." In 44 games he had 4 assists, 'expected' was 3. 

He loses more challenges than he wins.

And whilst I'm sure he wasn't fit last night that doesn't explain his lack of touch and inability to cross the ball beyond the first defender. He had those traits before his injury.

Just been listening to Trevor Sinclair on TS whilst out buying tonight’s steak.  Was talking about wingers, inverted wingers etc.

He was talking about being shown onto his weaker foot at match tempo and although he could stand up crosses in training, it was a different kettle of fish in the heat of a match.

Antoine (at 21 nearly 22) is the epitome of raw, flashes of skill, power, pace, mixed up with mis-hit crosses, scuffed shots, poor choices etc.

He has potential.  It’s down to him and our coaches to realise that.  But….it wouldn’t surprise me if we are still saying the same thing next season, the season after, etc.

He’s quite articulate and football intelligent the couple of times he’s been on Robinstv so I don’t think it’s the “thicko footballer” stereotype, but on the pitch he does need to improve.

I wouldn’t be betting money he’ll leave City behind in his career.  He might well do, but it’s certainly not a sure thing.

As for last night, trying to judge after 30 mins is the epitome of OTIB!

[Engvall’s Splinter]

Whilst from a different generation, I do think this talk of “raw-ness” owing to not having academy roots is often muddy. Looking the other way, I see multiple players who’ve spent 10 years with a pro club before quickly disappearing through the non-league circuit as they lack the physical attributes to compete at senior level. Often City - Bath City - Weston - Clevedon - Brislington - Packing it in before they are even mid twenties. Semenyo has had day to day coaching, it needs to start clicking for him otherwise we’ll be seeing him at Ironmould Lane. 

[The Original OTIB]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just been listening to Trevor Sinclair on TS whilst out buying tonight’s steak.  Was talking about wingers, inverted wingers etc.

He was talking about being shown onto his weaker foot at match tempo and although he could stand up crosses in training, it was a different kettle of fish in the heat of a match.

Antoine (at 21 nearly 22) is the epitome of raw, flashes of skill, power, pace, mixed up with mis-hit crosses, scuffed shots, poor choices etc.

He has potential.  It’s down to him and our coaches to realise that.  But….it wouldn’t surprise me if we are still saying the same thing next season, the season after, etc.

He’s quite articulate and football intelligent the couple of times he’s been on Robinstv so I don’t think it’s the “thicko footballer” stereotype, but on the pitch he does need to improve.

I wouldn’t be betting money he’ll leave City behind in his career.  He might well do, but it’s certainly not a sure thing.

As for last night, trying to judge after 30 mins is the epitome of OTIB!

As an aside, he looked leaner to me. Maybe the result of different conditioning/rehab. 

[BasSavage88]

4 minutes ago, Selred said:

Pace. 

Jesus Christ. What good is that with no other attribute

[Major Isewater]

12 hours ago, bris red said:

I said it on another thread he is the carbon copy of Junior Bent. So much pace and endeavour but the end product is so poor its unbelievable.. I think Nige will be forced to stick with him but he just doesn’t look like a natural footballer to me.. a great athlete but his footballing brain is western conference standard at best IMO.

He is more Danny Haynes for me but I think he has the potential to be a top player. 
 

Like many players at City , COD, Dasilva, Vyner … he needs to breakthrough and effect games more regularly.

 

[The Original OTIB]

8 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

As an aside, he looked leaner to me. Maybe the result of different conditioning/rehab. 

Such things can make a difference to how you move. Maybe he will adjust as he gets used to such things. A guess, but it could be true.

[marcofisher]

Predictable from OTIB. People were saying the same about Reid and Bryan at 21 years of age and older. Probably the same posters. 

[tin]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

That is a different debate when it comes to cashing in. If that was on the table I’d consider it. Just think it is way too early in his career to say he won’t make it. Where was Bobby Reid at his age? Where was Kodjia? Look at the step Sterling took from 21 to 25. There are examples the other way I will concede that. Just something to keep in mind.
 

Sell him? maybe but I wouldn’t just flog him for a small chunk of cash now. Same as when there were some saying sell Reid for 300k. I know funds are tight but unless we can secure a minimum of 3-4m for Antoine it would be worth continuing his development here. If he kept his assists in the same area but notched 6-7 goals he’d be worth 5m minimum. The championship is a great platform level. It only takes one good season for a young player to be worth 8 figures. 

Reid, Kodjia, Sterling are three exceptions to the norm, and all of them came through the ranks at professional clubs. There are even more examples of promising youth talents who don’t reach that level. You also have to consider players reach their peaks at different ages, some mature late, most are established by 23 or 24. What makes you think AS will blossom? 

With AS, I see an athlete with the physical attributes to make the top but he’s non-league in terms of football intelligence, brain or instinct (call it what you will). Alex Scott has that at 17, for example, and it’s not something you develop over time IMO. You develop experience but you either have a footballing brain or you don’t, and I don’t think AS has in the same way someone like Reid clearly had from a young age. He can’t cross, can’t shoot, offers no protection, and is predictable to read. Millwall away in the Cup last year is the only time he’s challenged my assessment of him. 

[RedRaw]

27 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Predictable from OTIB. People were saying the same about Reid and Bryan at 21 years of age and older. Probably the same posters. 

Exactly how I see it. Bobby Reid was with us since he was 8 and although he showed flashes in the first team, he was frustratingly inconsistent and was shipped out on loan 5 times. Most fans were calling for him to be shipped out. It was only a change in position that sparked his career when he was around 24.

Semenyo is 21 without the additional 10 years of professional coaching Reid had.

He may or not make it with us but he does have the raw materials that could make him a hit with the right coaching

[Selred]

1 hour ago, BasSavage88 said:

Jesus Christ. What good is that with no other attribute

He said name one. I named one. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, RedRaw said:

Exactly how I see it. Bobby Reid was with us since he was 8 and although he showed flashes in the first team, he was frustratingly inconsistent and was shipped out on loan 5 times. Most fans were calling for him to be shipped out. It was only a change in position that sparked his career when he was around 24.

Semenyo is 21 without the additional 10 years of professional coaching Reid had.

He may or not make it with us but he does have the raw materials that could make him a hit with the right coaching

A lot of fans would’ve ripped up his contract and paid him off .

The first time I really saw him was that game v Rovers (JPT).  First half he was great, second half O’Toole kicked him off the park.  In the league that season, he was better alongside Marv than he was alongside Marlon….as Marv did the physical stuff.

In terms of breaking through, I think we saw it the season before.  He played much further forward, sometimes off of Abraham.  Started the season with 3 goals in opening 9 games.  Petered out a bit, but generally had started to prove he could play at this level.

Back to Semenyo, even at almost 22 he still has time.  Needs to kick on though.

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Whilst from a different generation, I do think this talk of “raw-ness” owing to not having academy roots is often muddy. Looking the other way, I see multiple players who’ve spent 10 years with a pro club before quickly disappearing through the non-league circuit as they lack the physical attributes to compete at senior level. Often City - Bath City - Weston - Clevedon - Brislington - Packing it in before they are even mid twenties. Semenyo has had day to day coaching, it needs to start clicking for him otherwise we’ll be seeing him at Ironmould Lane. 

Bonny would be very upset to see ex City at Ironmould Lane.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Bonny would be very upset to see ex City at Ironmould Lane.

Bonny used to stand on the half way line and shout at me “effing hell David” every time I misplaced a pass.

[Meh]

6 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Luckily i'm sure Pearson has the common sense to understand why a 21 year old looked a bit rusty in his first 30 minutes of competitive football since coming back from injury from last season, and having missed preseason training.

You could turn that around in terms of common sense decisions and question whether 1 down in a fast paced game is the right time to introduce a 21 year old who may be a bit rusty and in his first 30 minutes of competitive football since coming back from injury from last season.

Wiemann out to the right and Palmer or Wells in the 10 would have been a far better change both at the time and with hindsight.

[swanker]

3 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Whilst from a different generation, I do think this talk of “raw-ness” owing to not having academy roots is often muddy. Looking the other way, I see multiple players who’ve spent 10 years with a pro club before quickly disappearing through the non-league circuit as they lack the physical attributes to compete at senior level. Often City - Bath City - Weston - Clevedon - Brislington - Packing it in before they are even mid twenties. Semenyo has had day to day coaching, it needs to start clicking for him otherwise we’ll be seeing him at Ironmould Lane. 

If he ends up playing at ironmould lane he won’t be turning up in the type of motor he’s driving at the moment, that’s for sure. 

[JoeAman08]

3 hours ago, tin said:

Reid, Kodjia, Sterling are three exceptions to the norm, and all of them came through the ranks at professional clubs. There are even more examples of promising youth talents who don’t reach that level. You also have to consider players reach their peaks at different ages, some mature late, most are established by 23 or 24. What makes you think AS will blossom? 

With AS, I see an athlete with the physical attributes to make the top but he’s non-league in terms of football intelligence, brain or instinct (call it what you will). Alex Scott has that at 17, for example, and it’s not something you develop over time IMO. You develop experience but you either have a footballing brain or you don’t, and I don’t think AS has in the same way someone like Reid clearly had from a young age. He can’t cross, can’t shoot, offers no protection, and is predictable to read. Millwall away in the Cup last year is the only time he’s challenged my assessment of him. 

I think that fact he wasn’t academy trained is the exact reason to persevere. Millwall was probably his best performance for us but certainly not the only one to challenge an assessment of him. We have only seen him in a bad side. Often our only outlet and often double teamed(was last night). You are right, it is probably more likely he doesn’t add to his game. That is something we won’t know until time passes. What do we do with him until then? Sell him cheaply like we did Bolasie? Or persevere and see if he progresses? Not sure there is another option short of selling him for mid 7 figures. Until that offer comes I’d rather NP and our other coaches work on him

[tin]

1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think that fact he wasn’t academy trained is the exact reason to persevere. Millwall was probably his best performance for us but certainly not the only one to challenge an assessment of him. We have only seen him in a bad side. Often our only outlet and often double teamed(was last night). You are right, it is probably more likely he doesn’t add to his game. That is something we won’t know until time passes. What do we do with him until then? Sell him cheaply like we did Bolasie? Or persevere and see if he progresses? Not sure there is another option short of selling him for mid 7 figures. Until that offer comes I’d rather NP and our other coaches work on him

The fact we’ve only seen him in a bad side means to me he’s a luxury player, a luxury player who offers very little in the way of luxury IMO.

It’s all hypothetical of course, but right now I’d accept an offer of £1m or more with a sell-on, let him develop elsewhere, and use the funds to get someone better. 

I really hope he does turn into a proper player with us, though. I just don’t think he’s shown enough to suggest he will (and I’m not talking about last night).

[JoeAman08]

23 minutes ago, tin said:

The fact we’ve only seen him in a bad side means to me he’s a luxury player, a luxury player who offers very little in the way of luxury IMO.

It’s all hypothetical of course, but right now I’d accept an offer of £1m or more with a sell-on, let him develop elsewhere, and use the funds to get someone better. 

I really hope he does turn into a proper player with us, though. I just don’t think he’s shown enough to suggest he will (and I’m not talking about last night).

That is the problem though isn’t it? Is 1m going to make us better? Not sure it does. Of course it could but we don’t exactly have the best track record. New management here I get it but we wouldn’t be able to buy a Semenyo from a L1 side with 1m. 

[The Original OTIB]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

A lot of fans would’ve ripped up his contract and paid him off .

The first time I really saw him was that game v Rovers (JPT).  First half he was great, second half O’Toole kicked him off the park.  In the league that season, he was better alongside Marv than he was alongside Marlon….as Marv did the physical stuff.

In terms of breaking through, I think we saw it the season before.  He played much further forward, sometimes off of Abraham.  Started the season with 3 goals in opening 9 games.  Petered out a bit, but generally had started to prove he could play at this level.

Back to Semenyo, even at almost 22 he still has time.  Needs to kick on though.

Could go either way, but reminds me of Aaron Brown. Folks used to gush about him but I predicted non league was his destination, and so it came to pass via steady decline.

[maxjak]

5 hours ago, BasSavage88 said:

Being scouted by Man U/Chelsea isnt what it was. They hoover up any type of shit and then dump 99% of it back into the system never to be seen again.

How long do we wait for him to become ready? 

He has played nearly 3000 championship minutes with 2 goals and 5 assists to his name which is a ******* pathetic return ( 1 goal every 1500 minutes, 1 assist every 600 minutes)

Yawn

[Bs4Red]

Semenyo will be a decent L1 player. I don’t think he will make it at this level. Speedboat no driver. 

He lacks a football brain which is clearly apparent and that is very hard to learn at his age. 

 

[BasSavage88]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

Yawn

What's incorrect ? 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

8 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Could go either way, but reminds me of Aaron Brown. Folks used to gush about him but I predicted non league was his destination, and so it came to pass via steady decline.

Aaron Brown was a very good player who never quite recovered from that freak injury in front of the old covered end.

[maxjak]

17 hours ago, bris red said:

I said it on another thread he is the carbon copy of Junior Bent. So much pace and endeavour but the end product is so poor its unbelievable.. I think Nige will be forced to stick with him but he just doesn’t look like a natural footballer to me.. a great athlete but his footballing brain is western conference standard at best IMO.

    Comparing Antoine Semenyo to Junior Bent is just hilarious..........and ridiculous.  Gary Lineker watch out there's a football expert after your job

[tin]

21 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

That is the problem though isn’t it? Is 1m going to make us better? Not sure it does. Of course it could but we don’t exactly have the best track record. New management here I get it but we wouldn’t be able to buy a Semenyo from a L1 side with 1m. 

Not necessarily, no. Fosu-Henry cost Brentford around £700k, he’s far better than Semenyo. There are players like that, for example, out there. Owen Dale at Crewe might be another. 

Atkinson’s signing looks astute, as does James. Therefore, I’ve got more faith in NP to use whatever funds wisely. All hypothetical of course, and I’ll happily be the first to eat humble pie if AS makes the grade with us. 

[Bs4Red]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

He's already a championship player. He'd have to get worse to become a league one player wouldn't he? I guess it can happen but can't see why it would with him. He seems like he has the right attitude to work hard to improve parts of his game.

I mean he’s not a cemented championship footballer yet. 

I don’t see him as a player starting 35+ games a season in the championship at the moment. 

Just feel he lacks that bit to be a really good player in this level but lower leagues may be his place in time