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Nagy to Pisa - Departure CONFIRMED (Merged)

al3xrh0des

By al3xrh0des
in Football Chat

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I honestly don't. I'm not in any way ITK and there might be someone who tells me I'm completely wrong but I got the impression the Pack sale was very out of the blue. And we didn't have that many central midfield options at the time. Smith was expected to be out for most of the season, Walsh was out of favour and we'd lost to Leeds five days earlier with no central midfielder on the bench and, especially as Brownhill was sometimes used as a right midfielder, we needed signings in that area, even before Pack went. 

I don't think Massengo was intended to be used anywhere near as much as he was that first season (I can't remember any circumstance where LJ signed a young player and stuck him in the team immediately) and I think the aim was for Brownhill, Pack and Nagy to compete for three places with Massengo getting the odd bit of experience from the bench.

Aside from anything else, I just don't think Nagy made any sense whatsoever as a replacement for Pack whereas I think there would have been a logic to him replacing Smith. That said, I've noted and agree with your comments on another thread about Wells being signed without a plan (and I'd argue Palmer and Szmodics were too) so I could very be wrong but I don't think Nagy being a direct replacement for Pack was ever the actual intention, and I think that's where the root of the problem lay. 

Korey wasn’t expected out for much of the season, came back in November.

Walsh kept getting niggly injuries.

Agree re Massengo, had to throw him in straightaway.

Also agree that IF the plan was for Nagy to replace Pack it was flawed….so you’re probably right, there was no plan! ?

We spent more on Nagy and Massengo than we got for Pack (had to give Cheltenham their cut too).

I suspect part of the problem is that LJ thought he could sign any midfielder and coach them into being a version of him! ???

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Taz

Taz

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Korey wasn’t expected out for much of the season, came back in November.

Walsh kept getting niggly injuries.

Agree re Massengo, had to throw him in straightaway.

Also agree that IF the plan was for Nagy to replace Pack it was flawed….so you’re probably right, there was no plan! ?

We spent more on Nagy and Massengo than we got for Pack (had to give Cheltenham their cut too).

I suspect part of the problem is that LJ thought he could sign any midfielder and coach them into being a version of him! ???

Dull, incapable of running forward and creating space, and having a fondness for passing the ball back? 

I'd say he did a bloody good job of coaching them into mini Lee's!!

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petehinton

petehinton

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I honestly don't. I'm not in any way ITK and there might be someone who tells me I'm completely wrong but I got the impression the Pack sale was very out of the blue. And we didn't have that many central midfield options at the time. Smith was expected to be out for most of the season, Walsh was out of favour and we'd lost to Leeds five days earlier with no central midfielder on the bench and, especially as Brownhill was sometimes used as a right midfielder, we needed signings in that area, even before Pack went. 

I don't think Massengo was intended to be used anywhere near as much as he was that first season (I can't remember any circumstance where LJ signed a young player and stuck him in the team immediately) and I think the aim was for Brownhill, Pack and Nagy to compete for three places with Massengo getting the odd bit of experience from the bench.

Aside from anything else, I just don't think Nagy made any sense whatsoever as a replacement for Pack whereas I think there would have been a logic to him replacing Smith. That said, I've noted and agree with your comments on another thread about Wells being signed without a plan (and I'd argue Palmer and Szmodics were too) so I could very be wrong but I don't think Nagy being a direct replacement for Pack was ever the actual intention, and I think that's where the root of the problem lay. 

Story goes We tried to re-sign Reid from Cardiff, Warnock said yes you can talk to him but only if you let me speak to Pack. MA agreed and Warnock almost collapsed in disbelief they were happy for him to try sign him. 
 

So yeah, Nagy was signed with no plan basically!

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Porto Red

Porto Red

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I still think the major issue was the sudden sale of Pack just after Nagy signed. People think of Nagy as a replacement for Pack but he was signed at a point when Smith was injured and had a year left on his contract and I think the plan was for Nagy and Pack to play in the centre with Brownhill on the right.

I think that would have worked well, with Pack doing the holding and Nagy doing the running. However we ended up - especially after the sale of Brownhill - with midfielders that just did not work in combination and with Nagy having multiple midfield partners, no settled system and continually playing outside his natural game. Toss in an injury in the first season and the impact of COVID as he settled in a new country and it is no shock it did not work. 

He didn't fulfil his potential and his time here feels like a missed opportunity but I bear him no grudge for that, understand why he wanted to move, and wish him well for the future. 

 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Do you not think Nagy was signed because Pack was off?

I think you are overestimating to what degree our recruitment was finely thought out...! Surely any signing was made on the basis of a fat backhander for MA...

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TRL

TRL

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Maybe he`s having it here - covid and all that?

maybe, although I would have thought it hard to have a medical with everything they need to put them through, it would mean using our facilities I would imagine and involve taking Pisa medical staff away from the club.  That said I have no idea how this stuff works in reality :)

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Rob k

Rob k

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Korey wasn’t expected out for much of the season, came back in November.

Walsh kept getting niggly injuries.

Agree re Massengo, had to throw him in straightaway.

Also agree that IF the plan was for Nagy to replace Pack it was flawed….so you’re probably right, there was no plan! ?

We spent more on Nagy and Massengo than we got for Pack (had to give Cheltenham their cut too).

I suspect part of the problem is that LJ thought he could sign any midfielder and coach them into being a version of him! ???

Selling Pack when we did was absolutely ridiculous 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
On 23/08/2021 at 21:02, Red Exile said:

All fair points...but in fairness to me it slightly depends when you think City played their best football!!

Peak City under LJ for me was 2017/18 up to the night we lost to Wolves, when Frankie was still in the building, Flint was in his prime, Smith and Pack were the midfield with Joe on the left and Bobby up front, and we were 2nd in the table at kick-off having just been beaten in the League Cup Simi-Final. It's not been a lot better than that in the past 40 years.

That said a more ruthless owner would have sacked Johnson after the abysmal run following that loss to Wolves...4 wins in 21 matches, finished 11th with LJ seemingly clueless how to return to the previous winning form.

As for the following season, sure, we had that great run but we also lost 7 in 11 in the league earlier in the season and then threw away chances of the play-offs by winning just 4 of the final 12 matches. Once the rot set in LJ appeared to have no idea how to stop it. Maybe, to take up your final point, that was something to do with resting on laurels. I always thought it was over-confidence followed by panic. I don't believe LJ did have the skills for the job of leading a side to promotion over a season. Maybe he will acquire them.

Whatever, we have been left in a mess, the nature of which sits more with the responsibilities of a CEO than a manager.

 

We showed the odd game of it in the 2nd half of the season but it had mainly gone...definitely agree it was from day 1 or 2017/18 through to the Wolves game as you say.

2nd half of Leeds away onwards in Feb 2018, the style was going right out the window- as I say we saw aspects of it but it was fading fast, save for the odd half/game here and there afterwards.

Segmenting it further, I thought best of the 2 parts to that first half of the season when Paterson-Reid in that 4-4-1-1/4-4-2-0/4-6-0 however you want to set it up. That was most controlled and fluid, but we did hammer some sides early season or dominate them at least- bit of both in fact.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

As for Nagy.

Wish him well, shame it ended as it did- had hopes he could come back and reintegrate himself after his excellent Euros and indeed from Middlesbrough away to the end of the season despite being in and out and moved around positionally, 2 goals and 2 assists IIRC.

Unsure we saw the best of him for long enough, tactics and injuries didn't help at times, I still maintain that in a CM 3 or in a side that were more dominant in possession and controlling of games he would have been better. Different player to Pack? Certainly- few have mentioned that he was brought in to replace him and that wasn't a neat fit as such.

It's just one of many to add to the list but post Afobe injury might this have been worth a go- Afobe was injured, Smith was injured but of course Nagy was injured and Kalas too for a time...DaSilva as well- wow the injuries even that season!

Anyway post Afobe injury, I wonder about- and this sadly would have been impossible post Brownhill sale:

          Nagy Smith

O'Dowda Brownhill Eliasson

          Weimann

Massengo 1st reserve, clearly when Henriksen comes in for Brownhill it becomes more complex...different type of player again and crucially less goals on offer. Double pivot Nagy and Smith, Brownhill able to tuck into that central 3 in phases out of possession- perhaps O'Dowda and Eliasson wide right and left out of possession with Weimann pressing from the front- at least it would've had some consistency of shape IMO!

Problem comes when selling Brownhill but here goes nothing much.

            Nagy Smith

Weimann Paterson Eliasson

                Wells

Massengo maybe to press and shuttle back and forth instead of Henriksen? Henriksen and Nagy deeper at times given Smith's fitness being up and down...none of our CMs post Brownhill really have offered that mix of goals and ability to shuffle back into the 3 out of possession- he could be underrated at time but he was a big miss indeed. Suppose Paterson can drop into a 3 in theory but not as well as a Brownhill type.

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Northern Red

Northern Red

Posted
Posted
On 25/08/2021 at 07:26, Jerseybean said:

Decent article this which IMO provides a wider perspective and makes some good points. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/adam-nagy-bristol-city-market-5828668
 

 

That's a very good summary of the current situation and there are a few people on here who would do well to read it.

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GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Free transfer then, according to BP from interview with Nige earlier.

Yep, where are all those talking about £5m now or even half that?

Wake up & smell the coffee folks, we are totally hamstrung by FFP & the market at our level is as dead as can be.

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Shuffle

Shuffle

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

Free is ridiculous. I understand about the wages and the market etc but I dont see us signing players like Nagy who at least on paper is a decent player for free when there is a year left on their contract. 

 

Agree on paper he looks great but the biggest surprise for me is that professional clubs don’t agree otherwise he wouldn’t of ended up in Serie B. Baffled after the Euros why nobody came in for him.

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Bris Red

Bris Red

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

Free is ridiculous. I understand about the wages and the market etc but I dont see us signing players like Nagy who at least on paper is a decent player for free when there is a year left on their contract. 

 

I do find it a tad baffling to be honest that he has gone for free - it just goes to show how little money there is out there at the moment outside of the top 4 or 5 European leagues.

I’d imagine (and hope) we as a club have done everything we possibly can do to get a fee for him but if nobody wants to pay it what can we do as a football club? He clearly wanted to leave so you either wish him well and let him go now for free or keep an unhappy individual at the club a year longer and he goes for free anyway next year when his contract runs out? Its a shit situation all around to be honest but there isn’t a great deal we can do about it..

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

Agree on paper he looks great but the biggest surprise for me is that professional clubs don’t agree otherwise he wouldn’t of ended up in Serie B. Baffled after the Euros why nobody came in for him.

⬇️⬇️⬇️

1 hour ago, bris red said:

I do find it a tad baffling to be honest that he has gone for free - it just goes to show how little money there is out there at the moment outside of the top 4 or 5 European leagues.

I’d imagine (and hope) we as a club have done everything we possibly can do to get a fee for him but if nobody wants to pay it what can we do as a football club? He clearly wanted to leave so you either wish him well and let him go now for free or keep an unhappy individual at the club a year longer and he goes for free anyway next year when his contract runs out? Its a shit situation all around to be honest but there isn’t a great deal we can do about it..

Even though the market is crap, even I expected a fee….albeit a small one. I expected more interest too.

But if his wages were the alleged £16k, any club coming in and offering a 3 year deal (like Pisa) aren’t gonna offer anything like that….nor also pay a fee on top.

And I guess if Nagy wants to move and someone wants him, City are probably pretty clear that they aren’t gonna subsidise any wages for the remainder of his term.

So it sounds like a three way compromise.

  • City won’t demand a fee if someone wants him and get £16k p.w off the wage bill 
  • Nagy will cancel his contract here upon transfer (no ongoing liability from City)
  • Pisa can use the fact that there is no fee to compromise on Nagy’s wage

Its not ideal, far from it, but if we demanded a fee, we probably end up with Nagy still here and waste best part of £850k on wages.

Ultimately we’ve saved wasting £850k….that’s a better result than some of the summer stuff that went on.  It’s the reality of the market….and as fans we need to realise we are no longer in boom-time.

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Leveller

Leveller

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

That the interest levels in him were minimal, suggests that he was not as talented as some like to think . His wages might have put some off, but as explained above, lack of fee enabled the transfer to happen, otherwise we risked ongoing liabilities due to the total absence of interest in other clubs wanting him (at least in an area he wanted to live). The player wanted out last summer. 

Another episode in the dire transfer policy of MA and LJ that has put the club in the difficult financial situation it currently resides in. On this one I have to doubt the scouting quality and the due diligence. What we saw, you could have seen  in Italy at Bologna. The positives and negatives . He was never going to be anything but a limited player , who might work in a very confined role , but it was crazy money for such a limited player. As it turns out, that crazy money became a total waste of money. This is where the fees from Kelly and Webster went. 

Chapter closed, move on. 

Tend to agree. He got publicity as a "key" player for Hungary, but what did he actually do? They were very negative and as far as I could see he was just part of a blanket defence. I'm sure I must have missed some positive ball play from him, but even for Hungary I didn't see him as someone who had a positive impact, simply someone who generally plugged a gap.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, billywedlock said:

That the interest levels in him were minimal, suggests that he was not as talented as some like to think . His wages might have put some off, but as explained above, lack of fee enabled the transfer to happen, otherwise we risked ongoing liabilities due to the total absence of interest in other clubs wanting him (at least in an area he wanted to live). The player wanted out last summer. 

Another episode in the dire transfer policy of MA and LJ that has put the club in the difficult financial situation it currently resides in. On this one I have to doubt the scouting quality and the due diligence. What we saw, you could have seen  in Italy at Bologna. The positives and negatives . He was never going to be anything but a limited player , who might work in a very confined role , but it was crazy money for such a limited player. As it turns out, that crazy money became a total waste of money. This is where the fees from Kelly and Webster went. 

Chapter closed, move on. 

Out of interest, Do you think we put a “sell-on” clause in?

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