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Nagy to Pisa - Departure CONFIRMED (Merged)

al3xrh0des

By al3xrh0des
in Football Chat

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

This must be the case for loads of clubs. We have seen it with Derby yes but surely Forest, Cardiff, Reading must be dithering on the edge worse than we are. 

Yep, those clubs with high cost bases who relied on selling “large” in inflationary times….are feeling the pinch.

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Kodjias Wrist

Kodjias Wrist

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

The future looks pretty bleak then.

We'll have to hope that players like Scott, Massengo, Semenyo (please for the love of God give him a break) and the rest either make the step up or get us some nice income.

3 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

 

87a7f5ff-352b-4596-aba9-50758c01047d_text.gif

Watched this very episode a few days ago. Forgot how much it makes me cringe but a great watch.

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Red Exile

Red Exile

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Sturny said:

It just seems like a double ended sword, not buying good players because of FFP so we may well eventually go down if we keep selling anyone with any value or buy players and get screwed by FFP and most likely go down. Kinda just feels like we're just delaying the inveitable of the squad getting possibly weaker every season. Just how much from sells do we need to make before we don't need to worry about FFP?! I keep hearing we're near the danger zone. 

The way I see it FFP has almost nothing to do with our current situation. Seems to me that a previous regime - Cotts/Burt, with credit to whoever was running the academy - identified, or developed, players of real talent, built a strong team ethic, got us promoted, identified players who would enhance that group, got pushed back, it all fell apart and they left. When Ashton and LJ stepped in they did well for a bit with many of the the same raw materials, but eventually sold the family silver, and with the exception of Webster replaced it with players that turned out to have little value.

COVID has had a massive impact I acknowledge but if we're teetering on the brink of relegation its because the regime that followed Cotts & Keith Burt wasn't up to the job.

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RobintheRed Red

RobintheRed Red

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

At the risk of going off on a tangent, he’s not a winger, and there is no intent in the formation 4-2-3-1 to play pure “wingers”. It’s about mobile footballers who will cut inside and are comfortable playing infield as well (or if not moreso) than on the wing. O’Dowda fits that bill - plays CM for Ireland.

The players who’ve played “wide” in the 3 this season have been COD, Palmer, Weimann, Scott and Pring. Not a winger amongst them.

No true thats why in my opinion are forwards seem starved of supply you could have Harry kane upfront no crosses imcoming  because fullbacks are not attacking enough .

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

The way I see it FFP has almost nothing to do with our current situation. Seems to me that a previous regime - Cotts/Burt, with credit to whoever was running the academy - identified, or developed, players of real talent, built a strong team ethic, got us promoted, identified players who would enhance that group, got pushed back, it all fell apart and they left. When Ashton and LJ stepped in they did well for a bit with many of the the same raw materials, but eventually sold the family silver, and with the exception of Webster replaced it with players that turned out to have little value.

COVID has had a massive impact I acknowledge but if we're teetering on the brink of relegation its because the regime that followed Cotts & Keith Burt wasn't up to the job.

Perhaps some of them lost value and potential value due to a) How they were used and b) Persistent injuries- another factor to consider.

Certainly not all but some...

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

Tbh we move after this season from a Profit at the start of the cycle- ie the 2018/19 season plus allowable costs, to a loss just a q of how much, for the combined 2019/20 and 2020/21 Average.

The cycles being:

2018-19- Year 1

2019-20 and 2020-21 combined average- Year 2

2021-22- Year 3, ie the Present

Then

2019-20 and 2020-21 combined average- Year 1

2021-22- Year 2, ie what is now the present but will be T-1.

2022-23- Year 3, next season- currently T+1.

If we are doing some heavy lifting now then that could certainly help help a lot.

Maybe the spending season could be 2023-24.

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Wolf Island

Wolf Island

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s what I’ve been saying for 2 or 3 years….overpaying for players (fees and wages), increasing the cost base far quicker than the revenue streams that were probably nearing max prior to Covid.  All whilst not really improving the squad.  It’s come home to roost.  It’s hard to get out if, especially in this climate.

The frustrating bit is that we’ve been overpaying but in a risk averse way. Signing ‘proven’ like Wells when a bit more investment could’ve seen someone like Toney at the club. At least with Ashton gone and Pearson here the Lansdowns can be under no illusions as to the hole we’re in.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

As for Brentford, a couple of bits from the Sunday Times the other week. Was going to post them but might make a separate thread.

OTOH our squad is still quite young in places, best years ahead of them etc. There could yet be some solutions from within

9 minutes ago, Wolf Island said:

The frustrating bit is that we’ve been overpaying but in a risk averse way. Signing ‘proven’ like Wells when a bit more investment could’ve seen someone like Toney at the club. At least with Ashton gone and Pearson here the Lansdowns can be under no illusions as to the hole we’re in.

Toney would have cost £10m in Jan 2020, although I might be wrong on this. £10m for Toney in Jan 2020 when pushing for the playoffs and perhaps more? Vydra would have been my choice of the 2 from Burnley FWIW.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Tbh we move after this season from a Profit at the start of the cycle- ie the 2018/19 season plus allowable costs, to a loss just a q of how much, for the combined 2019/20 and 2020/21 Average.

The cycles being:

2018-19- Year 1

2019-20 and 2020-21 combined average- Year 2

2021-22- Year 3, ie the Present

Then

2019-20 and 2020-21 combined average- Year 1

2021-22- Year 2, ie what is now the present but will be T-1.

2022-23- Year 3, next season- currently T+1.

If we are doing some heavy lifting now then that could certainly help help a lot.

Maybe the spending season could be 2023-24.

Thanks for this.  I hadn’t understood how the transition over the 2 averaged years would work from one period to the next.  Will add some formulae into my xls.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
Just now, JonDolman said:

Not sure what makes him a bottler. If Bielsa wanted him at Leeds then he can't be that bad.

The view that he doesn’t tackle with any commitment is why people say that….I agree with them.  Watch Pring’s aggression, intensity and physicality over his two games….it’s chalk and cheese.

Some players don’t want to risk getting hurt.

I don’t expect him to go around clattering people, but Pring has shown what can be done re that aspect of the LM/W role.

I’ve no idea how true the Leeds and Fulham transfer rumours were.

I hope he shows the flashes more regularly under Pearson.  If he dangles legs in, commits petty fouls he won’t play that often.  I hope the penny drops for him.  He has ability, but he’s got to improve some areas of his game.

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lenred

lenred

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The view that he doesn’t tackle with any commitment is why people say that….I agree with them.  Watch Pring’s aggression, intensity and physicality over his two games….it’s chalk and cheese.

Some players don’t want to risk getting hurt.

I don’t expect him to go around clattering people, but Pring has shown what can be done re that aspect of the LM/W role.

I’ve no idea how true the Leeds and Fulham transfer rumours were.

I hope he shows the flashes more regularly under Pearson.  If he dangles legs in, commits petty fouls he won’t play that often.  I hope the penny drops for him.  He has ability, but he’s got to improve some areas of his game.

And as we all know who’ve played the game, not being 100% committed in the tackle can often cause injuries.  Wonder if that’s the case with COD as like you say he does often seem stand offish when it comes to contact. 

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lenred

lenred

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

Weimann doesn't get stuck in but seems to get away with it for some reason, as do many others who are not labelled bottlers by fans. O'Dowda isn't a Joe Williams type, but for a winger he is strong and wins more balls than many weaker, smaller wingers. I think it was 8 tackles O'Dowda made in one game last season which is ridiculously high for one game.

I’d say Weimann is far more aggressive in the tackle than COD personally. More of a hustler type maybe but certainly doesn’t bottle it. 

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1960maaan

1960maaan

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Just amazed we are left with O'Dowda when I wish we could've kept Eliasson... 

Would never have got a game under Pearson. Didn't track back very well, did try to work on it but couldn't/wouldn't tackle. In a team that is working hard to press and win the ball high, he would have been a luxury . COD works back reasonably well and try to help out his FB. If he can stay fit, ODowda is a good player and I could see him and Pring working well together. Same with JD, but he needs to work on his attacking side.

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Sturny

Sturny

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Would never have got a game under Pearson. Didn't track back very well, did try to work on it but couldn't/wouldn't tackle. In a team that is working hard to press and win the ball high, he would have been a luxury . COD works back reasonably well and try to help out his FB. If he can stay fit, ODowda is a good player and I could see him and Pring working well together. Same with JD, but he needs to work on his attacking side.

Fair argument, maybe NP could’ve coached that into him better than LJ

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1960maaan

1960maaan

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Fair argument, maybe NP could’ve coached that into him better than LJ

Not sure it was in him to do that sort of job, but I would have more faith in Pearson getting it out of him if it was there.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted

Weimann presses with intent and purpose.  Uses body, can be prone to stupid fouls though.

For me Nagy, Paterson and O’Dowda all fall into a similar category, they might work hard, but they don’t affect the ball receiver very much.  The receiver never thinks he’s gonna get whacked.  Not saying Weimann is “hard” but the receiver knows if he miscontrols, Weimann will nip in.  Pring has set the standard on LM/W in terms of what Nige wants physically (done well on other aspects too).  When Callum gets his chance he will need to reach those levels as a minimum.  It will be a battle for the shirt I didn’t see at the start of the season.  Bring it on.

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Red Exile

Red Exile

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Perhaps some of them lost value and potential value due to a) How they were used and b) Persistent injuries- another factor to consider.

Certainly not all but some...

Fair points - but I'd argue that losing value because of how they were used is even worse that losing value because they weren't good enough! Mind you, I recall likening LJ to a golfer with more clubs in his bag than he knew what to do with, and I wasn't alone in that judgement.

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