Nagy to Pisa - Departure CONFIRMED (Merged)

[Nogbad the Bad]

All credit to Adam!

Though obviously distraught at the thought of leaving City he still managed to appear on University Challenge tonight!

 

 

 

[Porto Red]

42 minutes ago, downendcity said:

The most frustrating aspect of LJ’s time was his maxim “ if it ain’t broke, I’ll fix it anyway”.

He seemed to have an almost pathological desire to make changes  - almost for changes sake - and to prove how clever he was a coach. That. and continually picking his teams to counter the oppositions strengths, rather than focussing on picking a team to play to ours.

Yep. Lee Johnson. Because if it ain't broke, I'll fix it until it is.

Reminds me of the old demotivational poster: Customer Service. Because we're not happy until you're not happy

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Red Exile said:

Fair points - but I'd argue that losing value because of how they were used is even worse that losing value because they weren't good enough! Mind you, I recall likening LJ to a golfer with more clubs in his bag than he knew what to do with, and I wasn't alone in that judgement.

I wouldn't disagree, but believe that we didn't get the best or know how to get the best out of varied players under LJ and DH- or at least play them in a way that'd give them the platform to show their best.

3 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Probably mine as well.

Unfortunately, not only would he have been more expensive, but he wasn't even available!

Yeah, Burnley wanted him too!

[zippycar]

3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

All credit to Adam!

Though obviously distraught at the thought of leaving City he still managed to appear on University Challenge tonight!

 

 

 

So I wasn't the only OTIBian watching University Challenge tonight, but then there was sweet Miss Adams on the other channels

[Major Isewater]

5 hours ago, zippycar said:

So I wasn't the only OTIBian watching University Challenge tonight, but then there was sweet Miss Adams on the other channels

Fanny ?

[The hand of RO'D]

9 hours ago, Red Exile said:

All fair points...but in fairness to me it slightly depends when you think City played their best football!!

Peak City under LJ for me was 2017/18 up to the night we lost to Wolves, when Frankie was still in the building, Flint was in his prime, Smith and Pack were the midfield with Joe on the left and Bobby up front, and we were 2nd in the table at kick-off having just been beaten in the League Cup Simi-Final. It's not been a lot better than that in the past 40 years.

That said a more ruthless owner would have sacked Johnson after the abysmal run following that loss to Wolves...4 wins in 21 matches, finished 11th with LJ seemingly clueless how to return to the previous winning form.

As for the following season, sure, we had that great run but we also lost 7 in 11 in the league earlier in the season and then threw away chances of the play-offs by winning just 4 of the final 12 matches. Once the rot set in LJ appeared to have no idea how to stop it. Maybe, to take up your final point, that was something to do with resting on laurels. I always thought it was over-confidence followed by panic. I don't believe LJ did have the skills for the job of leading a side to promotion over a season. Maybe he will acquire them.

Whatever, we have been left in a mess, the nature of which sits more with the responsibilities of a CEO than a manager.

 

Completely agree. This for me personally was the pinnacle of my enjoyment for watching City.

[CyderInACan]

9 hours ago, downendcity said:

continually picking his teams to counter the oppositions strengths, rather than focussing on picking a team to play to ours.

This was the thing that mystified me. If you're up against Barcelona or one of the world's very best teams, fine. But not when you're playing bloody Rotherham, Ipswich etc. Pick your strongest XI and let the opposition worry about us. It must have been so demotivating for the players. 

[CliftonCliff]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Fanny ?

Thank you, don’t mind if I do.

[CliftonCliff]

Just now, CliftonCliff said:

Thank you, don’t mind if I do.

Thought I’d get in first, so to speak, before Rudolph.

[pogue malone]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Fanny ?

Yes she's clearly a woman

 

[italian dave]

11 hours ago, pjg11 said:

Clubs in the bag was his quote the other was one for the future. Clubs in the bag says we didn’t  have a system or an identity. Always different so some players could only. Play in certain formations if we didn’t play that they didn’t play . Not a phrase I’ve ever heard a top manager use as they buy players to fit a system Pep,Klopp,Dyche, nobody has clubs in the bag

Exactly this: it’s what always puzzled me last couple of years. Every other team assembles 22 players with a view to having an alternative for each position in the same formation and style. We seemed to assemble 22 players with a view to having 11 who could play one formation and style, and another 11 suited to a different formation and style. 

[Jerseybean]

43 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Exactly this: it’s what always puzzled me last couple of years. Every other team assembles 22 players with a view to having an alternative for each position in the same formation and style. We seemed to assemble 22 players with a view to having 11 who could play one formation and style, and another 11 suited to a different formation and style. 

Exactly. The contrast now is clear and refreshing, NP is looking for competition in every position, will stick with those who earn their place and make changes when players don’t perform to the level expected. He is consistently focused on getting the best out of our players and in most interviews says something like of course we look at the opposition but the critical thing is our performance and that’s what we all work on everyday. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

Exactly this: it’s what always puzzled me last couple of years. Every other team assembles 22 players with a view to having an alternative for each position in the same formation and style. We seemed to assemble 22 players with a view to having 11 who could play one formation and style, and another 11 suited to a different formation and style. 

Great post
 

Never thought of it like that, but true.

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

This was the thing that mystified me. If you're up against Barcelona or one of the world's very best teams, fine. But not when you're playing bloody Rotherham, Ipswich etc. Pick your strongest XI and let the opposition worry about us. It must have been so demotivating for the players. 

By comparison, NP does seem to be developing a system and playing  style and picks players to fit with that, rather than regular chopping and changing formations and personnel for no apparent reason. 

[CyderInACan]

8 minutes ago, downendcity said:

By comparison, NP does seem to be developing a system and playing  style and picks players to fit with that, rather than regular chopping and changing formations and personnel for no apparent reason. 

An "identity" - if you will. 

[bcfcredandwhite]

Disappointed that Nagy wanted to leave us - particularly after his good performance in the Euros, but once a player no longer wants to play for you then it's best for everyone that he moves on. It also frees up the wages.

I am surprised that he's only managed a tier 2 side though - I thought he would be good enough for a lower-end top-tier side in Europe - perhaps not Italy, Spain, France or Germany where their top tiers are very strong, but some of the other countries leagues - even in his native Hungary perhaps?

Anyway, good luck to him

[Taz]

24 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Disappointed that Nagy wanted to leave us - particularly after his good performance in the Euros, but once a player no longer wants to play for you then it's best for everyone that he moves on. It also frees up the wages.

I am surprised that he's only managed a tier 2 side though - I thought he would be good enough for a lower-end top-tier side in Europe - perhaps not Italy, Spain, France or Germany where their top tiers are very strong, but some of the other countries leagues - even in his native Hungary perhaps?

Anyway, good luck to him

You'd have to assume that he would have preferred a higher placed club. 

However let's also assume that with a very young child and partner living away from you for a year or so (at least), that perhaps there was only one club with a solid offer on the table?

If that club means that you are able to then live with your family for the first time in a long time, then maybe you say sod it I'll drop to a lower placed club, re-establish my career and hopefully get a move (domestically) higher up the leagues at a later point.

With a nearly 9 month old myself, I know if I was in Nagy's shoes, then I would do exactly the above.

Good luck to him, he's a decent enough player, just not one that ever really looked comfortable, or put in amazing back to back performances in for us. What he is, is yet another Johnson/Holden/Ashton signing that hasn't worked and put us back a few years. 

[Red-Robbo]

Adam never really fulfilled his potential here.

The best two matches I saw him play for us were his first two.

Johnson and then Holden never really understood how to fit him into the system they wanted to play.  Once King and James signed, he was on his way out here.

I think a lot of City fans didn't appreciate his understated talents, but keeping unhappy players at the club is never for the best. 

I wish him well in the future.

[Mr Chappers]

You have to be honest, he didn’t do much of note during his time with City, so was not a good signing. He may be OK in a different set up, but he didn’t really fit into ours, and that’s what is important. Definitely not the ‘upgrade’ that many thought when he signed.

Circumstances mean that we have little hope of much of a fee, so cutting our losses is the best we can hope for.

[The dastardly red]

Farewell Adam, may your future be bright and in it you grow a beard as strong as brushwood.

May you tower over delicate play actors who have thrown themselves to the ground. Bellow in their ears my friend and tell them to get the hell up (in Italian). Enjoy the local cuisine, perfumeries, fashion houses, barbers and ladies with their serious mouths and smouldering eyes.

Goodbye son, who never really tore it up round here but did give it a bit of a go when called upon. May your chest remain peppered with stubborn hairs that are anything but whispy. They could tear a man's cheek should he dare question your courage and lean in to hear the strength at which your heart beats.

Fly now and do not look back.

 

[Davefevs]

@The dastardly redfor OTIB Poet Laureate!

[Ska Junkie]

11 hours ago, zippycar said:

So I wasn't the only OTIBian watching University Challenge tonight, but then there was sweet Miss Adams on the other channels

I used to watch it as I could answer some of them. Now, I don't even understand the questions, let alone know the answer! 

[pjg11]

3 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

Exactly. The contrast now is clear and refreshing, NP is looking for competition in every position, will stick with those who earn their place and make changes when players don’t perform to the level expected. He is consistently focused on getting the best out of our players and in most interviews says something like of course we look at the opposition but the critical thing is our performance and that’s what we all work on everyday. 

The tombola joke was funny but if you looked under the surface . It was always about what the opposition was going to do to us not what we were going to do to them. Elliasen was bought to provide width and crosses then LJ says he could only play in a 442 which we rarely played . If we couldn’t work it out how could the players. Instead of training and working on a system. We train this way for Derby then different for Wigan then oh no we got Forest Tuesday better play this way . Was always reactive football 

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I used to watch it as I could answer some of them. Now, I don't even understand the questions, let alone know the answer! 

I give myself a point for understanding the question.

[LondonBristolian]

3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Adam never really fulfilled his potential here.

The best two matches I saw him play for us were his first two.

Johnson and then Holden never really understood how to fit him into the system they wanted to play.  Once King and James signed, he was on his way out here.

I think a lot of City fans didn't appreciate his understated talents, but keeping unhappy players at the club is never for the best. 

I wish him well in the future.

I still think the major issue was the sudden sale of Pack just after Nagy signed. People think of Nagy as a replacement for Pack but he was signed at a point when Smith was injured and had a year left on his contract and I think the plan was for Nagy and Pack to play in the centre with Brownhill on the right.

I think that would have worked well, with Pack doing the holding and Nagy doing the running. However we ended up - especially after the sale of Brownhill - with midfielders that just did not work in combination and with Nagy having multiple midfield partners, no settled system and continually playing outside his natural game. Toss in an injury in the first season and the impact of COVID as he settled in a new country and it is no shock it did not work. 

He didn't fulfil his potential and his time here feels like a missed opportunity but I bear him no grudge for that, understand why he wanted to move, and wish him well for the future. 

[McNasty Filth]

Sorry all, but without having to read the whole fifteen page thread, is there anyone ITK as to whether a fee is involved or we let him go on a free?

[TonyTonyTony]

7 minutes ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

Sorry all, but without having to read the whole fifteen page thread, is there anyone ITK as to whether a fee is involved or we let him go on a free?

Anywhere between nothing and 6 million

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I still think the major issue was the sudden sale of Pack just after Nagy signed. People think of Nagy as a replacement for Pack but he was signed at a point when Smith was injured and had a year left on his contract and I think the plan was for Nagy and Pack to play in the centre with Brownhill on the right.

I think that would have worked well, with Pack doing the holding and Nagy doing the running. However we ended up - especially after the sale of Brownhill - with midfielders that just did not work in combination and with Nagy having multiple midfield partners, no settled system and continually playing outside his natural game. Toss in an injury in the first season and the impact of COVID as he settled in a new country and it is no shock it did not work. 

He didn't fulfil his potential and his time here feels like a missed opportunity but I bear him no grudge for that, understand why he wanted to move, and wish him well for the future. 

Do you not think Nagy was signed because Pack was off?

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Do you not think Nagy was signed because Pack was off?

Absolutely, both deals happened on the same day.

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Do you not think Nagy was signed because Pack was off?

I honestly don't. I'm not in any way ITK and there might be someone who tells me I'm completely wrong but I got the impression the Pack sale was very out of the blue. And we didn't have that many central midfield options at the time. Smith was expected to be out for most of the season, Walsh was out of favour and we'd lost to Leeds five days earlier with no central midfielder on the bench and, especially as Brownhill was sometimes used as a right midfielder, we needed signings in that area, even before Pack went. 

I don't think Massengo was intended to be used anywhere near as much as he was that first season (I can't remember any circumstance where LJ signed a young player and stuck him in the team immediately) and I think the aim was for Brownhill, Pack and Nagy to compete for three places with Massengo getting the odd bit of experience from the bench.

Aside from anything else, I just don't think Nagy made any sense whatsoever as a replacement for Pack whereas I think there would have been a logic to him replacing Smith. That said, I've noted and agree with your comments on another thread about Wells being signed without a plan (and I'd argue Palmer and Szmodics were too) so I could very be wrong but I don't think Nagy being a direct replacement for Pack was ever the actual intention, and I think that's where the root of the problem lay.