VAR 21/22

[Redinthehead]

16 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Which is bollocks. 

It’s a part of the rules and has been for quite some time. Referees need to take into consideration the potential danger in the players action, not just the intent.

[MarcusX]

17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It was certainly accidental, there’s was no malice in the tackle. Things like that happen regularly at all levels of football.

Doesn't have to be intentional to be a red card

 

[Fordy62]

6 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

It’s a part of the rules and has been for quite some time. Referees need to take into consideration the potential danger in the players action, not just the intent.

There’s no potential danger 999 times/1000. So now we’re sending off people based on the severity of injury. Absolute rubbish. No way any action is taken if it were the other way round. 

[Redinthehead]

Just now, Fordy62 said:

There’s no potential danger 999 times/1000. So now we’re sending off people based on the severity of injury. Absolute rubbish. No way any action is taken if it were the other way round. 

Other way round to what? 
There’s always danger when someone flies into a tackle off of the ground from behind. I don’t doubt that the severity of the injury would have been on the refs mind to an extent but whilst it may seem harsh, the rules make a strong case for that being a sending off.

[MarcusX]

Just now, Fordy62 said:

There’s no potential danger 999/1000. So now we’re sending off people based on the severity of injury. Absolute rubbish. No way any action is taken if it were the other way round. 

His legs gone through the back of him as far as I can see, I wouldn't say that's not a danger. There's a reason tackling from behind was removed.

It's unfortunate, it's accidental but I can also see why a red may be given. Did VAR give it or did the ref give it after seeing the injury? If the latter then I agree that's wrong - but if VAR gave it then theres an argument the ref just didn't see it properly in real time

[Red Army 87]

Just now, MarcusX said:

His legs gone through the back of him as far as I can see, I wouldn't say that's not a danger. There's a reason tackling from behind was removed.

It's unfortunate, it's accidental but I can also see why a red may be given. Did VAR give it or did the ref give it after seeing the injury? If the latter then I agree that's wrong - but if VAR gave it then theres an argument the ref just didn't see it properly in real time

Commentators said ref decided on red initially but was waiting for VAR to check it before he showed the card. 

[Fordy62]

21 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

His legs gone through the back of him as far as I can see, I wouldn't say that's not a danger. There's a reason tackling from behind was removed.

It's unfortunate, it's accidental but I can also see why a red may be given. Did VAR give it or did the ref give it after seeing the injury? If the latter then I agree that's wrong - but if VAR gave it then theres an argument the ref just didn't see it properly in real time

It’s not from behind. They’re neck and neck for the ball. He puts a slide in, wins the ball. Then there a horrific accident. 

[MarcusX]

3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It’s not from behind. They’re neck and neck for the ball. He puts a slide in, wins the ball. Then there a horrific accident. 

It's a bad tackle, if he hooks his left leg to the right he can take ball and man. He's jumped, and hooked to the other side because of this he has little control of his other leg and it goes straight through the back of Elliott

[Lanterne Rouge]

Elliott has a dislocated ankle according to the BBC match report

[Super]

4 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Elliott has a dislocated ankle according to the BBC match report

Not a medical man is that best part of 3 months out or is that wishful thinking?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Absolute disgrace of a red card today for Leeds. Wouldn’t have happened the other way round I’m sure. 

warning: it isn’t pretty. 
 

 

Don’t think you can say it was just because it was Liverpool. If it was the other way around with 38k Leeds fans screaming red I reckon same result. The ref had already made his decision so VAR don’t tend to reverse it unless it’s a clear mistake and this one divides opinion I guess.

Fair play to the physios who legged it on before the ref stopped the game, I think they immediately held his ankle in position possibly saving him from further injury like ligament tears etc.  Disolocated ankle.. didn’t even know that was possible. 

[And Its Smith]

Goes to show how hard a ref has it when there’s so much disagreement when we’ve all seen it 10 times. Can’t see it being overturned

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

Don’t think you can say it was just because it was Liverpool. If it was the other way around with 38k Leeds fans screaming red I reckon same result. The ref had already made his decision so VAR don’t tend to reverse it unless it’s a clear mistake and this one divides opinion I guess.

Fair play to the physios who legged it on before the ref stopped the game, I think they immediately held his ankle in position possibly saving him from further injury like ligament tears etc.  Disolocated ankle.. didn’t even know that was possible. 

Common injury in basketball where it typically occurs when a player jumps, lands on an opponent’s foot and rolls (Dislocates) the ankle.

I only saw it once, because Sky didn’t show it again….it looked unfortunate imho, no malice.  When you see some of the tackles that go in, straight leg, off the ground, with force, I’m amazed more legs aren’t broken.  Lenihan’s on Campbell (Blackburn v Luton) was one such type yesterday….Campbell limped off.  For me that was a red (ref gave yellow).  

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Goes to show how hard a ref has it when there’s so much disagreement when we’ve all seen it 10 times. Can’t see it being overturned

As above, I only saw it once.

Did Elliott’s ankle go under him a bit, e.g. did his studs get caught or did the impact of the first part of the challenge slow Elliott up and the Leeds player’s trailing leg catch him up?  I don’t really want to watch it again.  I’ve seen some shockers in my years when playing, so not keen on watching it to justify a red or not.

[cidered abroad]

Health and Safety at work has been for at least two decades, that anyone is responsible for their own safety AND the safety of others. A football match is "Work" for those taking part.

At last football and rugby have caught up to an extent as this incident demonstrates. The Leeds player does not appear to have deliberately injured the Liverpool player but the action he carried out in trying to win the ball is now considered to be irresponsible as his actions do not take account of his responsibilty for the safety of the other player. Thus a red card. May seem harsh to some but better that players have fewer ways of being injured that could finish their careers.

And sooner rather than later, heading a ball will be banished. No more Galley type goals. Rugby has already introduced an automatic red card for any contact with the head of an opponent whether deliberate or not. We cannot have sports which live in the past for player safety. Get used to it.

 

[MarcusX]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

As above, I only saw it once.

Did Elliott’s ankle go under him a bit, e.g. did his studs get caught or did the impact of the first part of the challenge slow Elliott up and the Leeds player’s trailing leg catch him up?  I don’t really want to watch it again.  I’ve seen some shockers in my years when playing, so not keen on watching it to justify a red or not.

I've watched it more times than I'd like to admit, to me it looks like his trailing leg which he has less control over goes through the back of Elliott's leg/ankle. POssibly it's got planted / stuck in the grass. He clearly didn't mean to injure him at all and it's just very unlucky for Elliott

Ultimately leg breaks and dislocations like this are always going to be really unlucky and not often the force of the tackle but the placement of the foot/leg etc in doing so. The more "shocking" tackles in my experience generally don't lead to serious injury, I wonder if that's because the player can often see it coming and "ride" it to some extent

If you think of some of the worst leg breaks etc I can't think of many that were really nasty tackles. I remember David Buust, Hatem Ben Arfa, Luc Nillis and Djibril Cisse for example were just really unfortunate and Alan Smith had his leg broken and ankle dislocated just blocking a shot. Of course there was Eduardo and Aaron Ramsey at Arsenal that were both nasty tackles.

[And Its Smith]

2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

I've watched it more times than I'd like to admit, to me it looks like his trailing leg which he has less control over goes through the back of Elliott's leg/ankle. POssibly it's got planted / stuck in the grass. He clearly didn't mean to injure him at all and it's just very unlucky for Elliott

Ultimately leg breaks and dislocations like this are always going to be really unlucky and not often the force of the tackle but the placement of the foot/leg etc in doing so. The more "shocking" tackles in my experience generally don't lead to serious injury, I wonder if that's because the player can often see it coming and "ride" it to some extent

If you think of some of the worst leg breaks etc I can't think of many that were really nasty tackles. I remember David Buust, Hatem Ben Arfa, Luc Nillis and Djibril Cisse for example were just really unfortunate and Alan Smith had his leg broken and ankle dislocated just blocking a shot. Of course there was Eduardo and Aaron Ramsey at Arsenal that were both nasty tackles.

And Rodriguez for us. Can still remember the screams

[Lanterne Rouge]

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

And Rodriguez for us. Can still remember the screams

I don`t think any of us that were there ever will.

[Sleepy1968]

9 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

And Rodriguez for us. Can still remember the screams

... and seeing his leg pointing in the wrong direction

[Maltshoveller]

1 hour ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I don`t think any of us that were there ever will.

I was walk along the bottom of the Dolman towards to toilets when it happened

wished i stayed in my seat

 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

And Rodriguez for us. Can still remember the screams

Eloboki lifting his leg in air and it just dangling the wrong way was also something I can’t forget 

[Lanterne Rouge]

22 hours ago, TomF said:

Eloboki lifting his leg in air and it just dangling the wrong way was also something I can’t forget 

And Christian Rebeiro in the Dolman corner of the Atyeo.

[stephenkibby.]

I see Elliott has said Strujik has nothing to apologise for just an accident and should not have been a red card.

Leeds appealing against the decision.

[Super]

13 hours ago, stephenkibby. said:

I see Elliott has said Strujik has nothing to apologise for just an accident and should not have been a red card.

Leeds appealing against the decision.

Leeds have been unsuccessful in their appeal against the red card shown to Pascal Struijk for a tackle that left Liverpool's Harvey Elliott requiring surgery on a dislocated ankle.

[Guest]

So VAR waves away a clear pen for Ronaldo in the 92nd min with Man U 2-1 up and then awards West Ham one in the 93rd.. then saved! 

[WarksRobin]

Just now, TomF said:

So VAR waves away a clear pen for Ronaldo in the 92nd min with Man U 2-1 up and then awards West Ham one in the 93rd.. then saved! 

How were West Ham allowed to bring on a penalty specialist sub? 
No doubt it was handball under current rules, and the last Ronaldo pen claim looked stonewall.

[Guest]

Just now, WarksRobin said:

How were West Ham allowed to bring on a penalty specialist sub? 
No doubt it was handball under current rules, and the last Ronaldo pen claim looked stonewall.

Yeah didn’t think you could make a sub like that.  Agreed it was a pen for West Ham but Ronaldo was defo a pen. It’s the inconsistency that winds people up. 

[GTFABM]

Said it before and will say it until i am blue in the face. The longer VAR stays away from the championship the better. Cannot stand it.

[Packman]

I thought United should of had 2 pens but like you say the second one on Ronaldo is an absolute stonewall pen. Shambles of a referee and VAR.

[Redinthehead]

VAR works when the referee makes a decision and uses VAR to validate it or challenge it. In that game (W Ham - Man U) it felt as if he didn’t want to make any decisions and just rely on VAR to tell him if he was wrong.