formerly known as ivan Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 With no striker coming in, should anything happen to Martin before January it looks like Bell, Conway or Britton will get another opportunity. Fingers crossed the gamble pays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 Big carrot for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 21 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said: With no striker coming in, should anything happen to Martin before January it looks like Bell, Conway or Britton will get another opportunity. Fingers crossed the gamble pays off. Would not Wells be next in line if Martin was to be in injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said: Would not Wells be next in line if Martin was to be in injured Not as the head of a 4-2-3-1, or 4-4-1-1. He could deputise for Weimann in the latter formation, but isn't a back-to-goal forward like Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 31, 2021 Report Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Curr Avon said: Not as the head of a 4-2-3-1, or 4-4-1-1. He could deputise for Weimann in the latter formation, but isn't a back-to-goal forward like Martin. Yes true but would he change to a new system with no Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 41 minutes ago, Curr Avon said: Not as the head of a 4-2-3-1, or 4-4-1-1. He could deputise for Weimann in the latter formation, but isn't a back-to-goal forward like Martin. Not picking on you Mark. But you don’t have to play someone back to goal just because that’s the way Martin plays it. Did Nathan Baker play LB the same way as Jay Dasilva? We are too fixated with formations, and even more so with individual positions of players. How did Wells play at QPR. He played more as the “1” than as a pair with Hugill, and I’d argue he’s far better off the shoulder than being the slightly withdrawn one. He doesn’t have to play back to goal. QPR played to suit him with 3 creative players behind, or with wingers when Hugill paired up with him. Last summer Wells played up top with Weimann off of him in the friendly v Cheltenham, scoring a hatrick. All pre-season I heard Matty James being described as a “DM” or a holding midfielder, when he’s anything but that. Luckily the ex-PL player is sufficiently skilled and intelligent to know when it’s right to get forward, when it’s not, and how to play as a pair. No CM has taken more shots in the Championship than James….Pack and Whiteman have the same (9). Another example, Cam Pring, who’s a LB / LWB, yet playing LM / LW. He doesn’t play it defensively because he’s a full-back by trade. He is averaging 3.81 crosses p90, 15th in the Championship. Back to Wells. It could be a disaster if Martin gets injured, but it doesn’t have to be. It might be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGBjammy Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Davefevs said: Big carrot for them. "Chris Martin has been ruled out for 3 months after a crunching tackle by Tommy Conway in training" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 They came in at the back end of last season and gave more effort in their cameos then most of the first team put together I'm happy they are getting a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrascal2 Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 Gregor stated that the hierarchy at City were working really hard to make something happen regarding a striker and would be working up to 11am. If that was the case it seems strange we ended up with no one. Was it just that we could not afford anybody not even a loan player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 Just now, Redrascal2 said: Gregor stated that the hierarchy at City were working really hard to make something happen regarding a striker and would be working up to 11am. If that was the case it seems strange we ended up with no one. Was it just that we could not afford anybody not even a loan player. The fact that players available in our price range wouldn't improve us Signing someone for the sake of it is pointless and a waste of money We have Martin wienman semenyo Wells We also have back up in bell Pearson britton and Conway We are pretty stacked upfront especially if we are going with one up top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said: Gregor stated that the hierarchy at City were working really hard to make something happen regarding a striker and would be working up to 11am. If that was the case it seems strange we ended up with no one. Was it just that we could not afford anybody not even a loan player. It's what we were told before the deadline was approaching, Pearson said several times he wouldn't sign a player for the sake of it. If he couldn't find anyone better he would go with what we have got, and that he was confident the youngsters are ready to step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Robin Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 I think we can still get free agents if we are desperate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 Considering that this is a season where 12th to 15th without too much danger of the drop will be a success, this is the perfect year to start bedding in youngsters and seeing who is Championship ready. I think we’ve all been thrilled with the starts Scott and Pring have made. Were this a year we were fighting exclusively for promotion I’d have wanted signings, but for this season just de-bloating the squad with a few quality signings added in is perfect. We’ve now got our core squad to push on with over the next years, as we try to achieve promotion. The youngsters have a part to play in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted September 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 8 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said: Would not Wells be next in line if Martin was to be in injured Ha, good point! Completely forgot about Wells! Although I think it would take more than an injury to Martin for him to be played as an out and out striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 What a pleasant change that we haven't sent the majority of our young players on loan. Usually by now there would have been a mass exodus. I'm sure they will benefit more from learning under Nigel, his coaches and the senior players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 3 hours ago, JonDolman said: I think if Weimann is injured then Pearson will prefer Scott in the 10 or if no Scott then Palmer. Wells will mainly be competing with Martin imo. Will be a different way of playing. Pearson says he wanted a striker so I assume it's not exactly how he wanted to go into the season. The main thing is looking how strong our centre back and midfield positions are now. Right back could potentially be sorted this season and long term with that new signing. Left back we look pretty strong and we actually have a number of good wide options. Other options up top I still think Semenyo has what's needed to play up there. Conway did a very good job for his age when coming in last season and then Britton gives us something completely different. I know Wells was away at the start of pre-season, but he started Martin and Weimann together v Celtic, and all pre-season played two “forwards” close together, so although these two might not have been his first thought pairing going into Blackpool, it has evolved, possibly knowing he can trust Scott and Massengo to play right side. The need to put Andi back on the right has dissipated, plus now have Semenyo back. Re Antoine I’ve been saying that I think he might offer more centrally….although in all honesty, I probably thought more off of another forward. I don’t see him playing back to goal like Martin, but he could still be a physical presence as the furthest forward striker if needed. Agree with the rest too. 1 hour ago, Port Said Red said: It's what we were told before the deadline was approaching, Pearson said several times he wouldn't sign a player for the sake of it. If he couldn't find anyone better he would go with what we have got, and that he was confident the youngsters are ready to step up. I know. It seems to have fallen on deaf ears though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 49 minutes ago, chinapig said: What a pleasant change that we haven't sent the majority of our young players on loan. Usually by now there would have been a mass exodus. I'm sure they will benefit more from learning under Nigel, his coaches and the senior players. And it is more than likely that some will be needed this season. Unless we loan to non-league (and most are better than that standard) we can`t recall. Absolutely the right decision IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 1 hour ago, chinapig said: What a pleasant change that we haven't sent the majority of our young players on loan. Usually by now there would have been a mass exodus. I'm sure they will benefit more from learning under Nigel, his coaches and the senior players. Yep. And that's not to say that some of them won't go out in January but only if it's the right thing for the player and the club. Pointless them going somewhere where they either don't play or it's not of a standard or style that benefits them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Redrascal2 said: Gregor stated that the hierarchy at City were working really hard to make something happen regarding a striker and would be working up to 11am. If that was the case it seems strange we ended up with no one. Was it just that we could not afford anybody not even a loan player. Perhaps whoever we were negotiating with needed to bring someone in before they let our target come to us? And that deal didn't come off, so our target stayed put? Or, like you say, we couldn't agree the money side of things? Lots of reasons why deals don't happen. A shame because when Martin runs out of puff before Xmas we've no-one else to provide a similar physical, as well as technical, presence up front and if Weimann is unavailable at any point we've no-one to replicate his combination of high energy and goal threat. Perhaps we'll have better luck in the January Sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Perhaps whoever we were negotiating with needed to bring someone in before they let our target come to us? And that deal didn't come off, so our target stayed put? Or, like you say, we couldn't agree the money side of things? Lots of reasons why deals don't happen. A shame because when Martin runs out of puff before Xmas we've no-one else to provide a similar physical, as well as technical, presence up front and if Weimann is unavailable at any point we've no-one to replicate his combination of high energy and goal threat. Perhaps we'll have better luck in the January Sales. Except for semenyo who is high energy and Wells who can be a presence or play off the shoulder of the last man Or Conway or Bell or Pearson or Brotton Plenty of options at the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, Monkeh said: Except for semenyo who is high energy and Wells who can be a presence or play off the shoulder of the last man Or Conway or Bell or Pearson or Brotton Plenty of options at the club Which of those can provide what Martin does - both physical and technical presence? Which of those can provide what Weimann does - both high energy and goal threat? Which of those players can produce those qualities to the standard of Martin and Weimann? None of them - yet, in the case of the youngsters - hence my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 6 hours ago, chinapig said: What a pleasant change that we haven't sent the majority of our young players on loan. Usually by now there would have been a mass exodus. I'm sure they will benefit more from learning under Nigel, his coaches and the senior players. For quite some time on this forum we’ve had numerous posters saying that we need players of “championship proven quality” not youngsters coming through the academy. Looking back it has been championship proven players that have been partly responsible for our undoing over the last couple of seasons Pring and Scott have shown that young players can notably compete at this level, but enhance the team. This is of course helped by having a manager demonstrating trust and confidence in them and also making sound team selections and not messing around with personnel, tactics and formations on a week by week basis. If Pring and Scott are an indication of the quality coming through the academy, then perhaps we should not be quite so concerned that we didn't bring in a striker during this summer’s window. As @Monkeh said, when the likes of Conway, Towler etc played at the end of last season they put many of their senior colleagues to shame with their effort and ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Which of those can provide what Martin does - both physical and technical presence? Which of those can provide what Weimann does - both high energy and goal threat? Which of those players can produce those qualities to the standard of Martin and Weimann? None of them - yet, in the case of the youngsters - hence my concern. You’re making a case that the only successful combo is one that requires the combined skills of Martin and Weimann. As @Monkehsats there are other players who bring different things that might be just as good / better. In the current two we don’t have an out ball into the channel if Weimann is helping the midfield for example. Wells and Semenyo offer different attributes, without bringing the real youngsters in. If you watched the u23s today Wells is the best finisher amongst our “forwards”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: You’re making a case that the only successful combo is one that requires the combined skills of Martin and Weimann. I think it's by far the most likely combo to be successful - given the make up of the rest of the squad. As Wells demonstrated - again - today, his use of the ball away from the penalty area is woeful. So there's no way he can be a focal point for building attacks in the way Martin is. That means if he sits up top, on the shoulder of the last defender, and only joins in as little as possible away from the penalty area, we have to build attacks through prolonged passing movements - we are currently hopeless at this, don't have the players for it. Wells had a great spell at QPR supported by mobile, technical players like Eze and Chair - but we don't have the players to play that way, either (Palmer has never demonstrated any kind of consistency). Martin and Wells started well together under Holden but the absence of Weimann's energy would leave us exposed both in possession - Martin is basically a static target and we'd be avoiding giving it to Wells at all costs until right in front of goal - and also when out of possession - neither are going to hassle and harry the opposition like Weimann. We can barely establish parity of possession in games with Weimann in the team, so without him it would be a lost cause. Semenyo isn't for me. If we were forced into calling on any of the youngsters, it would be unrealistic to expect them to deliver the standard of performance that Martin and Weimann are capable of on a consistent basis. Yet. If needs be, of course we could construct a way of playing based around, just as an example, Wells, Palmer, Semenyo, Bell. But - imho - it would in no way deliver the standard of performance, on a consistent basis week in week out, that the Martin-Weimann combo is capable of. Having to rely on a strike force of Wells, Palmer, Semenyo, Bell = poor results in my book. Furthermore, a new way of playing with these players takes time to bed in, time you don't get once the season is under way and the Sat-Tues-Sat hamster wheel starts to revolve. As things stand, Martin-Weimann is the only game in town, for me. Hence my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 MM appreciate your response….ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 Martin-Weimann-Wells any combination of those three work… provided they play centrally as a pair. Think Big Nige has already established in his head neither Weimann, nor Wells, are effective wingers. That’s good news. The other bit of really good news is that we now have a midfield. Not only that, but a midfield that has sufficient intelligence to play to our strikers strengths. Onwards and upwards. The fourth striker berth is a bit of a worry admittedly, but we have sufficient young’ uns to fill the gap. One of them should be capable of making the step up. Otherwise you need to start questioning, why not? Given that we will need to replace the forward line in 2-3 years, one the youngsters really does need to grasp that opportunity of that fourth slot this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: I think it's by far the most likely combo to be successful - given the make up of the rest of the squad. As Wells demonstrated - again - today, his use of the ball away from the penalty area is woeful. So there's no way he can be a focal point for building attacks in the way Martin is. I read this as confirming you were there today? Wells did score four though Agree with your general point, but think if Martin is absent or rested then Wells has to come in, he is a completely different player to Martin but his experience & goal track record is of a different level to the U23 strikers. Pretty sure Pearson was planning for the eventuality that we couldn’t get the right one in & will have something in mind. As for Semenyo I think he’s ideal out wide but isn’t a front player, Palmer? Flatters to deceive, think he’s on the “can leave” list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, RedRock said: Martin-Weimann-Wells any combination of those three work… provided they play centrally as a pair. Think Big Nige has already established in his head neither Weimann, nor Wells, are effective wingers. That’s good news. The other bit of really good news is that we now have a midfield. Not only that, but a midfield that has sufficient intelligence to play to our strikers strengths. Onwards and upwards. The fourth striker berth is a bit of a worry admittedly, but we have sufficient young’ uns to fill the gap. One of them should be capable of making the step up. Otherwise you need to start questioning, why not? Given that we will need to replace the forward line in 2-3 years, one the youngsters really does need to grasp that opportunity of that fourth slot this season. That’s the same as my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 29 minutes ago, GrahamC said: I read this as confirming you were there today? Wells did score four though Agree with your general point, but think if Martin is absent or rested then Wells has to come in, he is a completely different player to Martin but his experience & goal track record is of a different level to the U23 strikers. Pretty sure Pearson was planning for the eventuality that we couldn’t get the right one in & will have something in mind. As for Semenyo I think he’s ideal out wide but isn’t a front player, Palmer? Flatters to deceive, think he’s on the “can leave” list. Watched online. The fact it was 10 .v. 11 after 2 minutes made it a better work out for some of ours than it otherwise might have been. Wells' link up play was, at times, pub standard. Not for the first time. I have no problems with him as a finisher!! Yes, once Martin needs a rest it is most likely to be Wells with Weimann. I just cannot see that being as effective, our possession stats would be even worse than usual and you can't keep having 30% of the ball at Championship level and get consistent results - other than bad ones. Plus, together with his excellent link up play, Martin has started the season putting defenders on their backsides left, right and centre (he got away with murder at Reading - an excellent referee that night!). You won't get that physicality from any of our other strikers. All part of Pearson's plan, I'm sure, to make us much more difficult to play against. A delight to see, in fact and is consistent with your point about being in the referee's ear a lot more too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 1, 2021 Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 Still think state of game and areas of possession count for a lot than just straightforward possession. The lowest percentage were the games we won The highest were the games we lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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