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davidoldfart

By davidoldfart
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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted

Interesting to compare the Reading and Derby Agreed Decisions.

Derby's case is more complicated by the fact that they are in administration, and that their charge around amortisation and failure to comply with FRS was more serious than Reading's simple failure to spend within their means. It seems to me like the restrictions placed upon the two clubs are not really commensurate with the really quite different facts. My summary of it is that both clubs cheated, but Derby tried to hide their cheating, whereas Reading overpsent, missed their deadline to get promoted, but didn't really try and hide it. Happy to be corrected on that.

The broad difference in punishment seems to amount to Derby receiving an extra 3 points initial deduction, an agreed budget initially 25% lower than Reading's, (although coming down next season to a very similar figure), some specifics around their future accounting methods and amortisation model, and a few extra administrative items such as having to file accounts even if they didn't have to under the Companies Act.

It feels like either Derby got off very lightly, or Reading got pretty badly punished.

I guess the EFL are working within their own "sentencing guidelines", and quite possibly those don't allow for anything other than what has been served up. if that's the case then do those need reworking?

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

That offers some insight thanks @ExiledAjax

Although I would say that the Sanctioning Guidelines do give a points tariff. Derby case felt like a bit of a Plea Bargain when factoring everything in.

Points to overspend. I can't remember it all off the top of my head but Derby's one made 18 in total. Breach 1=6 points Breach 2=9 points and Breach 3=3 points. 

Reading exceeded £15m, and that is 12 points. Not read agreed decision in full.

 Conditions on Derby feel quite significant, not just linked to the frankly fairly irrelevant 3 pts suspended but also what is expected of them moving forward.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Interesting to compare the Reading and Derby Agreed Decisions.

Derby's case is more complicated by the fact that they are in administration, and that their charge around amortisation and failure to comply with FRS was more serious than Reading's simple failure to spend within their means. It seems to me like the restrictions placed upon the two clubs are not really commensurate with the really quite different facts. My summary of it is that both clubs cheated, but Derby tried to hide their cheating, whereas Reading overpsent, missed their deadline to get promoted, but didn't really try and hide it. Happy to be corrected on that.

The broad difference in punishment seems to amount to Derby receiving an extra 3 points initial deduction, an agreed budget initially 25% lower than Reading's, (although coming down next season to a very similar figure), some specifics around their future accounting methods and amortisation model, and a few extra administrative items such as having to file accounts even if they didn't have to under the Companies Act.

It feels like either Derby got off very lightly, or Reading got pretty badly punished.

I guess the EFL are working within their own "sentencing guidelines", and quite possibly those don't allow for anything other than what has been served up. if that's the case then do those need reworking?

I would like to have seen some form of “aggravated” penalty for Derby.

I read the Reading one earlier. Surprised in both cases that the scale used in Brum case wasn’t applied.  Although in Brum’s cases there were lots of other considerations, Pederson transfer, not selling Adams, etc that made up the 9 points.

Perhaps both Reading and Derby got away with it a bit, Derby especially. Reading played ball, so I can see why they got 6+6.

Perhaps a bit more transparency needed from EFL as to why points values were arrived at?

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I would like to have seen some form of “aggravated” penalty for Derby.

I read the Reading one earlier. Surprised in both cases that the scale used in Brum case wasn’t applied.  Although in Brum’s cases there were lots of other considerations, Pederson transfer, not selling Adams, etc that made up the 9 points.

Perhaps both Reading and Derby got away with it a bit, Derby especially. Reading played ball, so I can see why they got 6+6.

Perhaps a bit more transparency needed from EFL as to why points values were arrived at?

Some of the conditions imposed on Derby in addition to the deduction and business plan might count in lieu of aggravation, however if Derby's wasn't an aggravated breach then what was.

The points scale also seemed to have been applied in the case of Sheffield Wednesday at the IDC, but then bizarrely selling the stadium was counted in mitigation, not by a point or 2 say, and an £18m 12 point overspend was halved!?

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maxjak

maxjak

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thanks to Reading''s 6 point   deduction we have moved up to 18th in the Table.   Praise be that 2 clubs have had points taken away, we just have to now hope that some indescretion can be found in Hull's finance's? ( Could we perhaps hire a private detective?)......and then we might, just might stay up?                   

Edited by maxjak
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Ronnie Sinclair

Ronnie Sinclair

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Thanks to Reading''s 6 point   deduction we have moved up to 18th in the Table.   Praise be that 2 clubs have had points taken away, we just have to now hope that some indescretion can be found in Hull's finance's? ( Could we perhaps hire a private detective?)......and then we might, just might stay up?                   

I know just the man.....


TV's Shoestring saw 20 million viewers tune into Bristol - Bristol Live

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RobintheRed Red

RobintheRed Red

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Thanks to Reading''s 6 point   deduction we have moved up to 18th in the Table.   Praise be that 2 clubs have had points taken away, we just have to now hope that some indescretion can be found in Hull's finance's? ( Could we perhaps hire a private detective?)......and then we might, just might stay up?                   

Still finish above us.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Thanks to Reading''s 6 point   deduction we have moved up to 18th in the Table.   Praise be that 2 clubs have had points taken away, we just have to now hope that some indescretion can be found in Hull's finance's? ( Could we perhaps hire a private detective?)......and then we might, just might stay up?                   

Hull are currently under EFL monitoring over a loan they have. 

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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

6  points is nothing really, Reading have a reasonable side.........two wins, back on track ! It might mean it scuppers their P O ambitions, but that's about all.

It's not that simple though. They will always be 2 wins worse off than everyone else. Effectively they are playing a 44 game season whereas everyone else (bar Derby) is playing a 46 game season. Their season is in effect now 4.3% shorter than a standard season. It's small, but it's not "nothing".

Plus, as it has been handed down after 17 games, it also means that they have to now be 0.2 points per game better over the remaining 29 games in order to achieve the position they would have done without the 6 points. 0.2ppg is a significant difference in standard. 

Did they seriously have play-off ambitions? Realistically that was seriously unlikely before the deduction. Teams with -6 goal difference after 17 games do not typically recover to a play-off position. That would have been remarkable really.

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semblar

semblar

Posted
Posted

The only thing I can think of here, is with the -12 from admin as well, is the EFL view that they will get relegated without question - so adding more to the points deduction is not going to make any difference? If so, then the extra conditions are what makes a difference and they appear to be more stringent than for Reading

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Hxj

Hxj

Posted
Posted

The Reading statement (my highlighting) is classy too - a learning lesson in there for others.

 

ROYALS ACCEPT SIX POINT PUNISHMENT FOLLOWING PROFIT & SUSTAINABILITY LIMIT BREACH
Reading Football Club can confirm that we have accepted a penalty of a six point deduction as a result of exceeding the EFL’s Profit and Sustainability limits.

The points deduction will be applied to our total with immediate effect.

A further six point penalty has been suspended until 2022-23. This will be applied if the club cannot fulfil an agreed business plan going forward.

The breach of regulations was calculated across a period of four years, two of which were unavoidably yet significantly impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.

While there are undeniably extenuating and unforeseeable circumstances that have contributed to this breach, we accept this to be a fair and reasonable punishment and will learn the lessons from our recent past which have resulted in this deduction.

We would like to take this opportunity to thank the EFL for their co-operation, professionalism and positive, open dialogue throughout this process.

Our owner, Mr Dai Yongge, remains wholeheartedly committed to the club.

While travel restrictions have limited his opportunity to follow the team in person at the Select Car Leasing Stadium during the pandemic, he has watched every match live via Royals TV or international TV broadcast to Asia. However, he was at Bearwood Park watching training this morning, having flown in from Hong Kong, and he will be at the stadium to watch us take on Nottingham Forest on Saturday.

His commitment to our club remains unequivocal; having supported the club throughout a period of unprecedented disruption when key revenue streams for all clubs were suddenly severed, his investment has been overtly evident to all who visit our new multi-million pound Bearwood Park training complex - an environment tailored to attracting the best players to our club, helping our existing players flourish and ensuring our developing young players can reach their maximum potential.

We also know our supporters will remain committed.

In our anniversary season, we are reminded of this club’s incredible history. The hurdles it has overcome, the adversity it has faced and the success it has enjoyed as a direct result of tackling every twist and turn together.

Lessons will be learned. Now is the time to come together.

So, with two important home fixtures on the horizon, now we ask our fans to get firmly behind our first team as we collectively look to move forward with positivity and renewed purpose.

Thank you, as always, for your support.

Owner Mr Dai Yongge said, “As the owner of your club, I am naturally dismayed and disappointed to accept the punishment issued by the EFL. And as a fan, I too am hurt by a deduction of six points this season. However, my determination to succeed has not diminished but has amplified.

“My team and I believe this settlement is just and will still enable us to be competitive as a football club this season and beyond. So, in the short-term, our aim is to fight for every point there is to fight for this season.

“In the long-term, we pledge to fix the issues of the past and together build a club capable of competing with the very best and challenging for honours. But we can only do that with your support, so I would like to personally thank you for your loyalty to your club! It is truly appreciated by all who cheer on the Royals.”

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
Just now, Bazooka Joe said:

At this rate, if other clubs continue to get points deducted, we may end up getting promoted.

Fully deserved, of course.

 

 

In a perverse way, I suspect SL and Gibson were big allies in terms of trying to get the EFL (under the cretin Shaun Harvey at the time) to punish Derby and Villa.

image.thumb.png.7cd498686db51b9ba8da58e0a3330e22.png

Villa might’ve scraped through FFP (I’m not sure) in fairness, but Derby have now been proved to have cheated for that season.

Ifs buts and maybes, but we could’ve been a playoff team?

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Bazooka Joe

Bazooka Joe

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In a perverse way, I suspect SL and Gibson were big allies in terms of trying to get the EFL (under the cretin Shaun Harvey at the time) to punish Derby and Villa.

image.thumb.png.7cd498686db51b9ba8da58e0a3330e22.png

Villa might’ve scraped through FFP (I’m not sure) in fairness, but Derby have now been proved to have cheated for that season.

Ifs buts and maybes, but we could’ve been a playoff team?

And to add insult to injury, knowing our luck, we would probably have won the play-offs on that occasion.

Any idea how to access that parallel universe? I'm sick of this one.

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