Hungary v England WCQ

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, Red Cloud said:

many see "taking the Knee" as a Political statement, stop doing that and much of the problem goes away

1. Define "many"

2. It's been made clear it's not political 

3. Should the players be responsible for their insistence on seeing it as such?

4. When you say "the problem goes away" do you mean racism, or that racists can go back into the shadows?

[AshtonGreat]

2 hours ago, the1stknowle said:

So long as we are consistent in calling out all racists then I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter if they are foreign racists or racists of our own. 

Bloody foreign racists

[2015]

Didn't England play well though? We have a good team don't we

[CliftonCliff]

I don't think anyone has yet pointed out the exquisite irony in RR's use of streaking as a comparison tool.

It (streaking) is, as others have pointed out, an idiotic, pointless and frankly pitiful behaviour exhibited by sad, generally not very bright, attention-seeking individuals. It's designed to provoke a response - any response - and as long as one is forthcoming, it doesn't matter to the perpetrator that the action that precipitated it is utterly banal and infantile. Which is why, as again has been pointed out, it is behaviour that, being reinforced by attention, is best ignored (unlike racism, which clearly needs to be confronted). The media realised this years ago and adopted a more-or-less universal policy of totally disregarding it. As a result, it has become mercifully rare. Nobody's interested. 

The nature of the irony being, of course, that the description of streaking that I've just written would fit perfectly 99% of the vacuous rubbish that RR himself posts on this website. Which in turn begs the question of why so many posters can't resist responding to it. Stop giving the immature originator of this "trolling" (if you want to call it that) the satisfaction that he so pathetically craves, and it will in time, simply cease. 

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

It’s the principle that I’m pointing out.

Yup and it’s silly, as many people explained.

[TonyTonyTony]

6 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Didn't England play well though? We have a good team don't we

We really do. I still prefer TAA at right back, but GS doesn't rate him defensively but for me he can cross better and also drop up into MF. Getting GS using Trent would be the final piece of the puzzle for me

[2015]

Just now, TonyTonyTony said:

We really do. I still prefer TAA at right back, but GS doesn't rate him defensively but for me he can cross better and also drop up into MF. Getting GS using Trent would be the final piece of the puzzle for me

I'm unsure he fits the dynamics and the set up of the side. Individually he is the best RB we have, but I think Walker for England right now is undroppable.

[TonyTonyTony]

1 minute ago, 2015 said:

I'm unsure he fits the dynamics and the set up of the side. Individually he is the best RB we have, but I think Walker for England right now is undroppable.

I certainly dont remember a time when we have so many quality options, other than Centre back. We need to grab the moment in 2022.

[Red Cloud]

26 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

1. Define "many"

2. It's been made clear it's not political 

3. Should the players be responsible for their insistence on seeing it as such?

4. When you say "the problem goes away" do you mean racism, or that racists can go back into the shadows?

It's a gesture borne out of GF's death (the one who threatened a pregnant woman with a gun remember!), fuelling BLM whose founding member is on record as saying as "we're trained Marxists" - what's NOT Political about that?

They could show they're against racism in other ways but choose this very controversial method, Racism will never go away but knowingly antagonising people doesn't help it - they have the right to do that but so the fans have the same right to reject it

[the1stknowle]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

It’s the principle that I’m pointing out.

What principle are you pointing out?

[the1stknowle]

10 minutes ago, Red Cloud said:

It's a gesture borne out of GF's death (the one who threatened a pregnant woman with a gun remember!), fuelling BLM whose founding member is on record as saying as "we're trained Marxists" - what's NOT Political about that?

They could show they're against racism in other ways but choose this very controversial method, Racism will never go away but knowingly antagonising people doesn't help it - they have the right to do that but so the fans have the same right to reject it

Was Colin Kaepernick protesting George Floyd's death or just pushing his deeply marxist agenda when he first took the knee in 2016?

[the1stknowle]

11 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

What principle are you pointing out?

Genuinely. How can you be confused at that question?

[SecretSam]

2 hours ago, Red Cloud said:

many see "taking the Knee" as a Political statement, stop doing that and much of the problem goes away

No, only racists do. It's about equality and respecting the rights of all. If you boo it, you're no better than the racists in Hungary's fanbase. Accept it.

[Port Said Red]

24 minutes ago, Red Cloud said:

It's a gesture borne out of GF's death (the one who threatened a pregnant woman with a gun remember!), fuelling BLM whose founding member is on record as saying as "we're trained Marxists" - what's NOT Political about that?

They could show they're against racism in other ways but choose this very controversial method, Racism will never go away but knowingly antagonising people doesn't help it - they have the right to do that but so the fans have the same right to reject it

GF - George Floyd? He was being arrested for allegedly passing a counterfeit bill. Black Lives Matter started as a hashtag in 2013 and developed a following from there, many years before that incident and doesn't have a specific founder or leaders. So I am confused by your whole statement.

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Red Cloud said:

It's a gesture borne out of GF's death (the one who threatened a pregnant woman with a gun remember!), fuelling BLM whose founding member is on record as saying as "we're trained Marxists" - what's NOT Political about that?

They could show they're against racism in other ways but choose this very controversial method, Racism will never go away but knowingly antagonising people doesn't help it - they have the right to do that but so the fans have the same right to reject it

**** , I really didn't want to get in to this Culture War bullshit but:

A) "Taking the knee" was invented before George Floyd was born. Martin Luther King did it as a protest. Incidentally, what Floyd had done in the past is irrelevant. He went to prison, served his time for that and no one deserves summary execution on suspicion of allegedly passing a forged note.

B) BLM is not a hierarchical movement that was "invented" by one person, but is diffuse and most protests and marches were started by local groups who identified with the broad message. Because one early adopter of the slogan is a self-identified Marxist doesn't mean the rest are or the movement itself is. Anti-racism should not be a political thing. People of any political persuasion (and none) should agree with the idea of not discriminating against one group because of skin colour.

C) The England team, like the Bristol City team, have repeatedly made clear that by taking the knee they aren't pledging support to BLM or any other movement or party that can be seen as political, but instead showing solidarity with non-white team members and fans who face discrimination and racism in their every day lives.

If you choose to believe the players are lying about that, then that shows how you are wound up like a little clockwork robot by the media sources you use.

Hungarian fans have a long history of racist behaviour unfortunately.  Even Hungary's right-wing PM Viktor Orban acknowledged the booing was a problem. This report lists the way in which "Ultra Aryan" hooligans have hijacked support for the national team there:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/hungary-fans-racism-orban-fifa-b1913588.html

By excusing the behaviour of those fans, you are giving succour and indirect support to white supremacists.

[Red-Robbo]

(Be nice if we can just discuss the football though on this bit of the forum. 

Would prefer it if the booing discussion, including my last post, was moved by the moderators, to the relevant forum.)

[RedLionLad]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

I don’t consider posting something controversial as ‘trolling’. It’s just my opinion that some take umbrage at.

I call it attention seeking.  You have a long history of it.

When others disagree, it gives you the opportunity to reply and boost your post count.

[italian dave]

4 hours ago, CliftonCliff said:

I don't think anyone has yet pointed out the exquisite irony in RR's use of streaking as a comparison tool.

It (streaking) is, as others have pointed out, an idiotic, pointless and frankly pitiful behaviour exhibited by sad, generally not very bright, attention-seeking individuals. It's designed to provoke a response - any response - and as long as one is forthcoming, it doesn't matter to the perpetrator that the action that precipitated it is utterly banal and infantile. Which is why, as again has been pointed out, it is behaviour that, being reinforced by attention, is best ignored (unlike racism, which clearly needs to be confronted). The media realised this years ago and adopted a more-or-less universal policy of totally disregarding it. As a result, it has become mercifully rare. Nobody's interested. 

The nature of the irony being, of course, that the description of streaking that I've just written would fit perfectly 99% of the vacuous rubbish that RR himself posts on this website. Which in turn begs the question of why so many posters can't resist responding to it. Stop giving the immature originator of this "trolling" (if you want to call it that) the satisfaction that he so pathetically craves, and it will in time, simply cease. 

Robbored, the forum streaker

[Strictly Obi]

I'm very proud of this England side, they are talented and have a certain togetherness I haven't seen in an England side for a while.

I'm also proud of the stance they are taking against racism. May it long continue to ruffle the feathers of bigots and racists around the world. 

[CliftonCliff]

16 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Robbored, the forum streaker

In a manner of speaking, yes. (This may inadvertently have created a new term for this kind of behaviour on the forum: “streaking”, as an alternative to “trolling”... )

Anyway, enough said on that tedious subject. As much as I feel strongly on the racism issue, like many others, I  tend to agree with those who would prefer to see it debated on a separate platform. Otherwise, it just hijacks the thread in a way that suits the “streaking “ agenda, by diverting it onto something more self-referential. It ends up being more about one poster than about the subject under discussion, which of course is just what that person finds so gratifying.

It was supposed to be a thread about the England v Hungary game - which I thought England handled very well, by the way, in every respect, not just in the football sense.

[Shaun Taylor]

23 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

In a manner of speaking, yes. (This may inadvertently have created a new term for this kind of behaviour on the forum: “streaking”, as an alternative to “trolling”... )

Anyway, enough said on that tedious subject. As much as I feel strongly on the racism issue, like many others, I  tend to agree with those who would prefer to see it debated on a separate platform. Otherwise, it just hijacks the thread in a way that suits the “streaking “ agenda, by diverting it onto something more self-referential. It ends up being more about one poster than about the subject under discussion, which of course is just what that person finds so gratifying.

It was supposed to be a thread about the England v Hungary game - which I thought England handled very well, by the way, in every respect, not just in the football sense.

I thought England were class last night yes we missed a few chances but to win 4-0 away against a team who were decent in the Euros proves we're on the right track. I would be interested to know what the possession stats were as we seemed to control the whole game.

[Port Said Red]

4 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

I thought England were class last night yes we missed a few chances but to win 4-0 away against a team who were decent in the Euros proves we're on the right track. I would be interested to know what the possession stats were as we seemed to control the whole game.

Here you go.

 

[Shaun Taylor]

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

Here you go.

 

Many thanks, I'm surprised Hungary had 36% 

[pillred]

7 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Many thanks, I'm surprised Hungary had 36% 

I agree, if you had asked me to guess I would have put it at 20% at most, I thought it was one of the most one sided international games I have ever seen.

[CliftonCliff]

4 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Many thanks, I'm surprised Hungary had 36% 

In case you didn’t know, those basic match stats that PSR kindly supplied are taken from the BBC Sports website and are very easily accessible while the game is in progress, as well as in the post-match summary.

Yes, I agree, 36% seems to flatter them. It felt at the time like they hardly had a kick all game.

[Shaun Taylor]

Just now, pillred said:

I agree, if you had asked me to guess I would have put it at 20% at most, I thought it was one of the most one sided international games I have ever seen.

Same here I would have said around 25% no more 

[Shaun Taylor]

1 minute ago, CliftonCliff said:

In case you didn’t know, those basic match stats that PSR kindly supplied are taken from the BBC Sports website and are very easily accessible while the game is in progress, as well as in the post-match summary.

Yes, I agree, 36% seems to flatter them. It felt at the time like they hardly had a kick all game.

Cheers Clifton red I never knew that

[pillred]

1 minute ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Same here I would have said around 25% no more 

Any idea how they work out that stat?

[Shaun Taylor]

2 minutes ago, pillred said:

Any idea how they work out that stat?

Just a quick Google and came up with the following,

During the game, the passes for each team are totalled up and then each team's total is divided by the game total to produce a percentage figure which shows the percentage of the game that each team has accrued in possession of the ball.”

[Port Said Red]

18 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Many thanks, I'm surprised Hungary had 36% 

 

10 minutes ago, pillred said:

I agree, if you had asked me to guess I would have put it at 20% at most, I thought it was one of the most one sided international games I have ever seen.

 

8 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

In case you didn’t know, those basic match stats that PSR kindly supplied are taken from the BBC Sports website and are very easily accessible while the game is in progress, as well as in the post-match summary.

Yes, I agree, 36% seems to flatter them. It felt at the time like they hardly had a kick all game.

I think if you watch the game right to the end, Hungary had some possession as we were running the clock down and thinking about the next game, I think that's when they had their shot on target too.

I think a lot of fans had switched to chatting about the performance by that stage.