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Ian Holloway article


Bat Fastard

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Ian Holloway: Bristol City and Bristol Rovers fans must learn from lessons of Johnson and Garner - Ian Holloway - Bristol Live (bristolpost.co.uk)

I admit to being conflicted that I end up agreeing with virtually everything that Holloway says about City in this article. I have no idea about the rovers stuff because I don't follow their decline.

The benefit of stability if too often overlooked and "love the one you're with" seems to be good advice to all fans. I did not agree with the dumping of Lee Johnson but we are where we are and I hope we give Nigel all the time and space that he needs to achieve the results we all want to see. I suppose I should say, Well sad Ian Holloway - although it pains me. Tin hat on.

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I'm all for stability, though it can turn into stagnation. But stability isn't helped by a constant churn of players, or indeed tactics.

It's not just the manager though. If we had had a CEO who had financial discipline and an experienced DoF to mentor LJ things might have turned out differently perhaps.

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What the **** has anything to do with us got to do with him?

They could literally get someone out of the pub in BS3 who knows more.

I find this constant attempt by the local media to try & tie both clubs into the same article really truly ******* tedious.

There are far more differences than similarities but still they persist.

No one (bar the odd window licker) is seriously suggesting that we do anything but give Pearson our full backing.

As for the other lot, I genuinely don’t care but seeing as they are bottom 4 of the bottom division I do understand why their few fans might at least ask the question.

Coming soon in the Post- Rob Newman writes about why both Bristol teams need a striker, or not, seeing as he isn’t Gas..

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The article just proves what city fans know the guy is a rambling idiot. He starts the article, by answering his own question and then contradicts himself by saying patients is needed for the rebuilding job. Well if LJ was doing so well, and Holden carried on more as less as was, then why do we need a massive re-building job?

Where do you think your clubs would be now if Ben Garner had remained Rovers manager and Lee Johnson was still in charge at Ashton Gate?

I think the honest answer in both cases is better off. And that’s why at a time when we are all celebrating the return of crowds to our stadiums, I want to issue a message to supporters of both Bristol clubs.

It is to get firmly behind Joey Barton and Nigel Pearson and show a high degree of patience as they perform much-needed rebuilding operations.

To justify how well LJ was doing he harps back to when we were playing very well back in 17-18, but misses that the wheels came off and a downward spiral ever since

But to answer you question dick head, where would we be somewhere between relegated and bankrupt. LJ moved the club forward and sure he is a good manager, but it was passed time to leave as he had run out of idea's 

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The latest in a long line of click-bait crap to appear on Bristol Live, and sadly it works in terms of generating organic traffic and prompting online debate. 

Most of us understand the magnitude of the task at hand for NP, can see the green shoots of recovery in performance levels, and are willing to give him time as long as we can see progress. That could change if he loses the plot like LJ did; Holden never had the plot to lose in the first place. 

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25 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Ian Holloway: Bristol City and Bristol Rovers fans must learn from lessons of Johnson and Garner - Ian Holloway - Bristol Live (bristolpost.co.uk)

I admit to being conflicted that I end up agreeing with virtually everything that Holloway says about City in this article. I have no idea about the rovers stuff because I don't follow their decline.

The benefit of stability if too often overlooked and "love the one you're with" seems to be good advice to all fans. I did not agree with the dumping of Lee Johnson but we are where we are and I hope we give Nigel all the time and space that he needs to achieve the results we all want to see. I suppose I should say, Well sad Ian Holloway - although it pains me. Tin hat on.

Morning Bat

Was that an accidental typo “well sad Ian Holloway”? Has oft been said on this forum by others, mind.

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15 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

What the **** has anything to do with us got to do with him?

They could literally get someone out of the pub in BS3 who knows more.

I find this constant attempt by the local media to try & tie both clubs into the same article really truly ******* tedious.

There are far more differences than similarities but still they persist.

No one (bar the odd window licker) is seriously suggesting that we do anything but give Pearson our full backing.

As for the other lot, I genuinely don’t care but seeing as they are bottom 4 of the bottom division I do understand why their few fans might at least ask the question.

Coming soon in the Post- Rob Newman writes about why both Bristol teams need a striker, or not, seeing as he isn’t Gas..

Crikey calm down mate! He was prob asked to do an article by the BP and did one.

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Just now, RidgeRed said:

Morning Bat

Was that an accidental typo “well sad Ian Holloway”? Has oft been said on this forum by others, mind.

Maybe. I have never been a great fan of Holloway and the blue few, but I have often wondered what would really happen if a talented manager was allowed to reallly develop his ideas. Sure there would be mistakes, blind alleys and pitfalls but Arsene Wenger, Ferguson and Gradi -and people like them have shown that it can work. The problem it that it requires patience and understanding. The club owners are put under enormous pressure by fans and often end up making rash choices.  

Usually a new manager feels that he needs to rebuild the squad in order to make it "his team" and that can often compound financial problems.  Not only the costs of appointing a new manager and staff but then selling and recruiting new staff.  The costs can run into many £millions and in these days of FFP can cause further problems.  Even though I find Holloway obnoxious, I wonder if, from the depths of his football experience, he has the germ of a reasonable idea.  I think he may.

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League one and the championship are 2 vastly different leagues no offence to Sunderland.

Myself and I'm sure many other city fans felt we had stagnated with Johnson and it probably was the right time for both parties to go their separate ways. The problems for city is what happened after with the who Ashton/Holden debacle (not blaming Holden for any of that, he's a super likeable bloke) where we had a squad in need of renewal and then we didn't get what was needed.

I can't comment on the sags because their current misery is funny and seeing Garner do well at Swindon with a squad pretty much assembled a week before the season started just makes it funnier.

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34 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Ian Holloway: Bristol City and Bristol Rovers fans must learn from lessons of Johnson and Garner - Ian Holloway - Bristol Live (bristolpost.co.uk)

I admit to being conflicted that I end up agreeing with virtually everything that Holloway says about City in this article. I have no idea about the rovers stuff because I don't follow their decline.

The benefit of stability if too often overlooked and "love the one you're with" seems to be good advice to all fans. I did not agree with the dumping of Lee Johnson but we are where we are and I hope we give Nigel all the time and space that he needs to achieve the results we all want to see. I suppose I should say, Well sad Ian Holloway - although it pains me. Tin hat on.

Got to say Bat, if you agree with almost everything Hollowhead says in that article, you’re reading something very different to what I am.

I thought it was total tripe, especially LJ giving us an identity and a playing style ...... fine if you want to take a 3 month purple patch 4 years ago, which then very quickly morphed into years of total banal dross.

The ‘be careful what you wish for’ statement winds me up too.  From his point of view, that means don’t change your manager, even if he’s xhit, just because you might get another shit one replace him.  If the clubs who employed him had followed that philosophy, he’d have been in employment longer for sure, but would the clubs have been any better off?  All you’re protecting is mediocrity and underachievement

There’s another saying around that a leopard never changes its spots and that also applies to that idiot.  He continues to spout nonsense and some people continue to lap it up.  If he was some deep thinking football sage then fine, but this is Hollowhead!!!

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12 minutes ago, tin said:

It's almost certainly a ghost-written column, eg someone phoned him up on a slow news day and let him ramble on. 

If it’s ghost written it’s a poor job. I have some sympathy with his views on stability in general, but I really didn’t need to know about his personal struggles to build a garden shed! It’s the sort of rambling monologue you’d get from the pub bore. 

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47 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

The article just proves what city fans know the guy is a rambling idiot. He starts the article, by answering his own question and then contradicts himself by saying patients is needed for the rebuilding job. Well if LJ was doing so well, and Holden carried on more as less as was, then why do we need a massive re-building job?................................

Patients is???

Bad grammar - patients are!!!

:innocent06:

 

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I'm someone who thinks LJ by and large did a decent job here but this article is nuts.

LJ had just under four and a half years here. (That, by the way, is longer than anywhere Jose Mourinho has been manager. Longer than Pep was manager at both Barca and Bayern). SL kept faith through some dire losng streaks when most clubs would have got rid.

Garner was Rovers manager for 11 months. They aren't comparable. LJ's tenure here is a paradigm example of the point Holloway is trying to make about keeping faith in your managerial appointments, not a warning against the managerial sack race. When Johnson was sacked, he would have been in the top ten longest serving managers in the football league.

Tough to argue convincingly that we would be significantly better off under any other manager. We are doing ok. We are two points off the playoffs with a smaller squad, blooding academy players, much reduced wage bill and a fanbase generally supportive of the management and the direction of travel. And there have been clear signs of much improved actual football.

But regardless, surely if he wanted to make the point he thinks he is making, he would start the article 'would Bristol City be better off if Dean Holden was still in charge'? 

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9 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I think we are showing support and patience for largish Nige aren't we?

LJ had his time and (a lot of) money, imagine what Nige could do with the finance LJ had? 

Yes we are at the present time. Remember that Dean Holden had an excellent start until much of his squad suffered from injuries. Working with the same depleted squad, Nigel fared no better - but then kept some of the long term injured as the cornerstones of his 21/2 squad.  It is hard to make comparisons at a time when wages had to be cut due to the Covid problems.  Every manager has duff patches in his tenure and I really hope that we stay with Nigel and ignore the chorus that will follow if he has a duff patch.  We have to look past his home form and look to the progress we are making. Would we have been so patient with other incumbents?

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8 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

I'm someone who thinks LJ by and large did a decent job here but this article is nuts.

LJ had just under four and a half years here. (That, by the way, is longer than anywhere Jose Mourinho has been manager. Longer than Pep was manager at both Barca and Bayern). SL kept faith through some dire losng streaks when most clubs would have got rid.

Garner was Rovers manager for 11 months. They aren't comparable. LJ's tenure here is a paradigm example of the point Holloway is trying to make about keeping faith in your managerial appointments, not a warning against the managerial sack race. When Johnson was sacked, he would have been in the top ten longest serving managers in the football league.

Tough to argue convincingly that we would be significantly better off under any other manager. We are doing ok. We are two points off the playoffs with a smaller squad, blooding academy players, much reduced wage bill and a fanbase generally supportive of the management and the direction of travel. And there have been clear signs of much improved actual football.

But regardless, surely if he wanted to make the point he thinks he is making, he would start the article 'would Bristol City be better off if Dean Holden was still in charge'? 

Dean Holden had a golden start but this collapsed when much of his squad suffered from injuries. Nigel did not fare better with the same depleted squad. One could argue that Nigel is better placed to clear out dead wood and recruit a new squad on lower wages, but that is simply a reflection on the previously unheard of Covid problem.  

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8 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Yes we are at the present time. Remember that Dean Holden had an excellent start until much of his squad suffered from injuries. Working with the same depleted squad, Nigel fared no better - but then kept some of the long term injured as the cornerstones of his 21/2 squad.  It is hard to make comparisons at a time when wages had to be cut due to the Covid problems.  Every manager has duff patches in his tenure and I really hope that we stay with Nigel and ignore the chorus that will follow if he has a duff patch.  We have to look past his home form and look to the progress we are making. Would we have been so patient with other incumbents?

I wouldn't have thought so BF but Nigel has a proven record and all but the most ardent 'ant Nigel' merchants (if there are any) can see signs of improvement, particularly over last season.

We know we were lucky to survive but, IMHO, he's gradually turning the good ship around, under financial restraints as you say. 

We've got a proven Manager now and the vast majority of us know that and support him.

Your point about 'other incumbents' is a good one, an internal promotion along with the dire results and football last season would have had the support up in arms, certainly quite a few anyway, I would have thought. 

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1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

Dean Holden had a golden start but this collapsed when much of his squad suffered from injuries. Nigel did not fare better with the same depleted squad. One could argue that Nigel is better placed to clear out dead wood and recruit a new squad on lower wages, but that is simply a reflection on the previously unheard of Covid problem.  

Playing Devil’s advocate, perhaps Nige wouldn’t have played some of the fatigued players, maybe he wouldn’t have rushed returning injured players back? Maybe he wouldn’t have got to a point where he had a badly depleted squad in the first place.  Maybe he wouldn’t have later in the season got to a point where contract situations completely undermined players efforts too.

Looking forward to looking back at this season.  Will be some interesting areas to look at.

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Two things struck me reading that, firstly both Johnson and Garner are doing well but at a lower level than which they previously operated 

And secondly maybe the fact they’re both doing relatively well suggests the problems at both clubs were far deeper than who was the head coach and more about how the club is being run, it seems we’re beginning to show signs of putting the Ashton reign behind us whereas Rovers still seem to be run chaotically 

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