054123 Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 Just watched Nigel’s interview and it got me thinking about his interviews last season where it was pretty clear his thoughts on the attitude and application of the squad. Having had a raft of players, is the upturn in attitude down to some leaving (if so who?) or maybe just a collective upturn in those who remained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 It’s really difficult to know. At times Nige has talked up most of the players that left in the summer to the media, but i suspect that might’ve been different to what was said in private. I think he gave everyone a chance….and it doesn’t take more than one or two out on the pitch to drag a whole team down. But from what he’s said he definitely feels there were some who took the pi$$. They are no longer here. Hopefully there aren’t still any left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 Mark Ashton and Andy Rolls? Maybe Luke Werhan too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted September 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 13 minutes ago, Davefevs said: It’s really difficult to know. At times Nige has talked up most of the players that left in the summer to the media, but i suspect that might’ve been different to what was said in private. I think he gave everyone a chance….and it doesn’t take more than one or two out on the pitch to drag a whole team down. But from what he’s said he definitely feels there were some who took the pi$$. They are no longer here. Hopefully there aren’t still any left. That’s the impression I got. When I think about the players who left though, it’s difficult to imagine them having that much of a negative effect. I know we only see very little from the outside, so maybe Jamie Patterson was a horror behind closed doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 I think he has highlighted the reason for it as well which is basically too many players and some being upset at not being close enough to getting a chance and that creating the bad apples. So it maybe that a couple have changed there attitude just because they are now closer to the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 I think there were some he simply felt weren’t either good enough or were the right fit, certainly Hunt & Rowe are 2 that I think came into that category. Of the rest there were clearly some he felt were taking the piss but who they were is really just guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge1981 Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 I think having so many players in their final year took its toll on us. How many of us can say we would be 100% committed in our jobs if we knew we were leaving in a few months time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjias Wrist Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 33 minutes ago, Edge1981 said: I think having so many players in their final year took its toll on us. How many of us can say we would be 100% committed in our jobs if we knew we were leaving in a few months time? I mean I would try very hard to keep my job in that time and who knows maybe some did but didn't put enough in the first year or so of their new contract. Add to that we had an inflated squad with many not getting games or consistent game time. The morale of the squad when the injury crisis was going on must of been dreadful especially with the performances on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 2 hours ago, 054123 said: That’s the impression I got. When I think about the players who left though, it’s difficult to imagine them having that much of a negative effect. I know we only see very little from the outside, so maybe Jamie Patterson was a horror behind closed doors No he wasn't - IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awbb Posted September 9, 2021 Report Share Posted September 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, VT05763 said: No he wasn't - IMO I think our numerical friend was having a joke there, Videotape. In all honesty, I don't recall Pearson specifically talking about "bad apples" (he could easily have said it and I would have nodded vigorously when he did (I'm old and have probably slept since) so have forgotten). It was clear, however, that he felt that some of the players were not taking their careers (at City) seriously enough, which impacted their ability to train and play at the level that he expected as well as impacting his ability to influence those players who showed better initial characteristics. Pretty much all of us know that all of our first team players had an extremely easy ride for the majority of last season and NP's attempts to address this was akin to Gary Johnson needing to drive the drinking culture out of the squad he inherited 15 years before and was largely mirrored by the performances on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 If the rumours about Watkins hiding at the training centre were true, then I'd strongly suggest that there's one option.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 I see it as rather than players being bad apples in the Tomlin sense, there were some who just didn’t have the right mentality (too used to losing? Too much in their comfort zones?), plus players like Diedhiou whose effort was affected by their contract situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 I have no inside knowledge whatsoever but the giveaway for me is when a new manager is required, the players who chirp up publicly in favour of an existing coach saying what a great person he is, are usually praising him for being a good mate rather than his coaching ability. Paterson was quoted by E Post along those lines. A spoken "body language" for me. Just watching the games should be enough for an experienced fan to pick out those who rarely get above 85% effort! We had plenty of those in the last two or three years before NP arrived. He must have been horrified how many were like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 When an experienced manager joins any club one of the first things he’ll do is get rid of any player who has a negative influence around the squad and that’s exactly what Nige did. It doesn’t matter who we’re the ‘bad apples’ now - it’s all history. Point is they’re out the door and the guys Nige brought in have had a positive impact on and off the pitch and consequently the squad is far better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 The thing is that "bad apples" are often "bad apples" for a reason - it doesn't necessarily mean they are always going to be so. I think the key thing Pearson mentioned in his pre-match interview was the importance of having a small enough squad that everyone feels close to the first team and able to compete for a place. I wonder if there are players still here who were a bit disconnected, demotivated and unsure of their role last season - and thus not massively helping the team dynamic - but who are now showing something different in a tighter squad where they know what they need to do to compete for regular football. To be clear, I've not got anyone specific in mind when I say that but I do think players re-focusing can sometimes be as crucial as changes in personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady bunch Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 I suspect offside 4 hours ago, Offside said: some who just didn’t have the right mentality (too used to losing? Too much in their comfort zones? bang on the money for me don't think there were really bad elements, just too many, too used to losing and in their comfort zone, don't think any of them consciously gave up, but various circumstances made it that way. I do actually suspect he DOES still have a few players around now that were in that camp (Wells/Palmer to name but two). I think what has changed is their circumstances and certainly Palmer and probably Wells are now more focused and committed (both realising they are on contracts here that are miles better then anyone will offer them elsewhere now and they need to put it in more to stay in the first team reckoning or face life in the U23's and probably for both of them the end of their careers at the high earning end of the football pyramid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 It also depends how you define 'bad apples'. For example, Adam Nagy and perhaps Kalas may have wanted moves this summer - as long as they give their all and are committed to the team whilst here it doesn't necessarily make them 'bad apples' for wanting away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 Too many fed up players without contracts not getting near the team. call them what ever rotten fruit you like, but they were all bought and paid for by certainty individual’s. If there was a problem within the squad I know where to look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 Hunt, Rowe, FAM, Watkins, Lansbury, Mariappa, Walsh - not necessarily bad apples but didn't want to be here or were not good enough/too old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 45 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: I have no inside knowledge whatsoever but the giveaway for me is when a new manager is required, the players who chirp up publicly in favour of an existing coach saying what a great person he is, are usually praising him for being a good mate rather than his coaching ability. Paterson was quoted by E Post along those lines. A spoken "body language" for me. Just watching the games should be enough for an experienced fan to pick out those who rarely get above 85% effort! We had plenty of those in the last two or three years before NP arrived. He must have been horrified how many were like this. Paterson was 'injured' for the whole of the end of the season wasn't he. Just as his contract was expiring. Says it all. He gave one of the worst performances I've ever watched Vs Reading in Holden's last game. Only time he sprinted was to be subbed off. Some people still think he's quality though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 We had plenty who threw in the towel and couldn’t care less if we stayed up or not last season . That’s bad apples as far as I’m concerned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said: The thing is that "bad apples" are often "bad apples" for a reason - it doesn't necessarily mean they are always going to be so. I think the key thing Pearson mentioned in his pre-match interview was the importance of having a small enough squad that everyone feels close to the first team and able to compete for a place. I wonder if there are players still here who were a bit disconnected, demotivated and unsure of their role last season - and thus not massively helping the team dynamic - but who are now showing something different in a tighter squad where they know what they need to do to compete for regular football. To be clear, I've not got anyone specific in mind when I say that but I do think players re-focusing can sometimes be as crucial as changes in personnel. This is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 2 hours ago, The Bard said: Paterson was 'injured' for the whole of the end of the season wasn't he. Just as his contract was expiring. Says it all. He gave one of the worst performances I've ever watched Vs Reading in Holden's last game. Only time he sprinted was to be subbed off. Some people still think he's quality though.. You are aware I assume that Paterson and several others actually were playing with injuries ? Not the "normal" kicks and niggles but serious injuries requiring injections. Our squad was decimated with severe and long term injuries, players were rushed back unfit to man the trenches. This scenario had more of a negative effect on morale and performance than the legendary "bad apples" theory - IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 31 minutes ago, VT05763 said: You are aware I assume that Paterson and several others actually were playing with injuries ? Not the "normal" kicks and niggles but serious injuries requiring injections. Our squad was decimated with severe and long term injuries, players were rushed back unfit to man the trenches. This scenario had more of a negative effect on morale and performance than the legendary "bad apples" theory - IMO. Yep, even Pearson admitted Hunt was playing through injury when he had that big gash down his ankle. But I do think “some” players had crap attitudes / were unprofessional. Some you could argue could’ve used the games as shop-window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 Maybe that's why Michael Appleton was being considered for the job? As others have said (and NP on other occasions), too many players nowhere near the squad. If I was a player with a short career I would be extremely unhappy about the fitness medical team's record. Imagine in real life if we had to go to our company doctor (or dentist) for treatment even if we thought he was useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canmore red Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 I’m sure there was much going on behind the scenes. I honestly think so many players out of contract and not being offered new terms severely demotivated the squad. When Ashton told the press no new contracts were going to be discussed before the end of the season the wheels seem to completely come off our season. How motivated must have our players been by this statement? A player, an employee at the end of the day, with a mortgage and family to provide for uncertain of their future. Only weeks later to learn of a colleague who didn’t appear to give a jot, just offered one of the best contacts in BCFC history. Great man management that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 The Bad Apples were the core issue. When Pearson was appointed, it was crunch time for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 1 hour ago, canmore red said: I’m sure there was much going on behind the scenes. I honestly think so many players out of contract and not being offered new terms severely demotivated the squad. When Ashton told the press no new contracts were going to be discussed before the end of the season the wheels seem to completely come off our season. How motivated must have our players been by this statement? A player, an employee at the end of the day, with a mortgage and family to provide for uncertain of their future. Only weeks later to learn of a colleague who didn’t appear to give a jot, just offered one of the best contacts in BCFC history. Great man management that! Yep, two big eff-ups. The Diedhiou v Norwich - “we will get our value on the pitch” (SL/MA) story to the commentator Gary Weaver. Them as you say, (paraphrased) “we’ve offered Fam the best / one of the best deals in the clubs history, but we can’t re-contract anyone else” plus “I looked Walshy in the eye and his eyes told me he will sign - even though we’ve never put a contract on the table”. In some respects he did us a favour, but it was large-scale negligence. He knew he was off at that point (much earlier than that) and he tried to shaft us. I bet he thought he might be able to get Walsh or one or two others to Ipswich. He knew how much they were on, their agents, etc. When I hear Nige say “Mark has been brilliant since I arrived” then SL saying “Mark gets a lot of stick but he does a lot at the EFL, blah, blah, masterminded the RHPC bullsh1t, etc, etc” I really did see that as trying to save face. He’s made a few comments recently about Gould in particular but also Pearson, that makes me think he’s very annoyed Ashton shafted him, and that he fell for giving him too much power on the football side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Yep, two big eff-ups. The Diedhiou v Norwich - “we will get our value on the pitch” (SL/MA) story to the commentator Gary Weaver. Them as you say, (paraphrased) “we’ve offered Fam the best / one of the best deals in the clubs history, but we can’t re-contract anyone else” plus “I looked Walshy in the eye and his eyes told me he will sign - even though we’ve never put a contract on the table”. In some respects he did us a favour, but it was large-scale negligence. He knew he was off at that point (much earlier than that) and he tried to shaft us. I bet he thought he might be able to get Walsh or one or two others to Ipswich. He knew how much they were on, their agents, etc. When I hear Nige say “Mark has been brilliant since I arrived” then SL saying “Mark gets a lot of stick but he does a lot at the EFL, blah, blah, masterminded the RHPC bullsh1t, etc, etc” I really did see that as trying to save face. He’s made a few comments recently about Gould in particular but also Pearson, that makes me think he’s very annoyed Ashton shafted him, and that he fell for giving him too much power on the football side. Walsh never intended to sign a new deal at any point and he neve hid that from the club - IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 10, 2021 Report Share Posted September 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, VT05763 said: Walsh never intended to sign a new deal at any point and he neve hid that from the club - IMO I don’t doubt you….shows what #### Ashton was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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