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Unwanted home record extended but we ARE getting better [FBC Podcast]


headhunter
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https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/unwanted-home-record-extended-but-we-are-getting-better/   [also on Spotify & Google Podcasts]

13 games now without a home win but the general consensus from yesterday's 0-0 draw against Preston was that we played OK in a match that last season we probably would have lost.

For a game without goals it had its fair share of goalmouth action and a share of the points was probably a fair outcome if you were a neutral observer.

We debate whether Nigel made the right call in starting with the side that won at Cardiff and Ian in particular challenged DaveP's view that playing Baker at left back is NOT too defensive.

We pick HNM as the best of the midfield trio in which both James & King were not at their best and we question the long throw routine which has become an unwanted part of our game. Why Kalas every time when Vyner can do similar, then again why at all when no clear cut chances have come from this tactic.

With Luton next up at Ashton Gate we speculate what changes Nigel might make to the starting line up to improve the goal threat. DaveP echoed the view of some of the live listener text messages that COD is NOT the answer but in form Janneh might be. We agree Scott should be recalled, probably at the expense of King and surely Louis Britton is worth a place on the bench if only to east the strain on Chris Martin.

 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Re Britton, his dad implied on Friday that he’s still not 100% fit following his injury.

Having watched a fair bit of the Sheff U under 23 game (& let’s face it, that isn’t Championship level) I thought it noticeable how much less pressing of the ball he did when compared with Bell, that might explain it.

I know many want to see him given a chance but he’s behind him in the pecking order (& Conway too, if he was fit) IMO.

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Just now, GrahamC said:

Having watched a fair bit of the Sheff U under 23 game (& let’s face it, that isn’t Championship level) I thought it noticeable how much less pressing of the ball he did when compared with Bell, that might explain it.

I know many want to see him given a chance but he’s behind him in the pecking order (& Conway too, if he was fit) IMO.

I think @Lrrrwill confirm that the u23s played a 343 last season the majority of games so that they could have pace either side of Louis to do that bit of legwork for him.

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Are we getting better? In my opinion, very marginally. Still not good to watch, very little exciting football and no flair without Scott. I'm a season ticket holder, but if I wasn't, would I pay £30 to watch that? No way! I can see the POTD people getting less and less in future. Great pity.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think @Lrrrwill confirm that the u23s played a 343 last season the majority of games so that they could have pace either side of Louis to do that bit of legwork for him.

Well it was at least an added benefit if not a deliberate intention, seemed like it was a case of a system that suited the players best when you had Owura Edwards and Janneh with Britton. They appeared to also play 2 up top sometimes, but Britton would be paired with Conway/Bell etc 

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20 hours ago, Desso said:

Are we getting better? In my opinion, very marginally. Still not good to watch, very little exciting football and no flair without Scott. I'm a season ticket holder, but if I wasn't, would I pay £30 to watch that? No way! I can see the POTD people getting less and less in future. Great pity.

Will be interesting to see this week's gate vs. Luton - I reckon sub 16k. Luton are not a great draw so soon after PNE and won't bring many. Different story had it been PNE followed by WBA

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On 12/09/2021 at 08:13, headhunter said:

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/unwanted-home-record-extended-but-we-are-getting-better/   [also on Spotify & Google Podcasts]

13 games now without a home win but the general consensus from yesterday's 0-0 draw against Preston was that we played OK in a match that last season we probably would have lost.

For a game without goals it had its fair share of goalmouth action and a share of the points was probably a fair outcome if you were a neutral observer.

We debate whether Nigel made the right call in starting with the side that won at Cardiff and Ian in particular challenged DaveP's view that playing Baker at left back is NOT too defensive.

We pick HNM as the best of the midfield trio in which both James & King were not at their best and we question the long throw routine which has become an unwanted part of our game. Why Kalas every time when Vyner can do similar, then again why at all when no clear cut chances have come from this tactic.

With Luton next up at Ashton Gate we speculate what changes Nigel might make to the starting line up to improve the goal threat. DaveP echoed the view of some of the live listener text messages that COD is NOT the answer but in form Janneh might be. We agree Scott should be recalled, probably at the expense of King and surely Louis Britton is worth a place on the bench if only to east the strain on Chris Martin.

 

Was going to start a threat about that long throw tactic. 

It’s become predictable and easily defended. Maybe a change of trajectory might produce different problems but how to get distance without the ball arching and dipping?

As for Luton on Wednesday, assuming everyone is available I can’t see Nige making any changes. Having a settled side has its advantages of course.

Edited by Robbored
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3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Was going to start a threat about that long throw tactic. 

It’s become predictable and easily defended. Maybe a change of trajectory might produce different problems but how to get distance without the ball curving?

As for Luton on Wednesday, assuming everyone is available I can’t see Nige making any changes. Having a settled side has its advantages of course.

I seem to recall Zak Vyner can throw quite far.

In any event I don't think we should use this tactic EVERY time. Since the opposition have time to position themselves in readiness for the big one how about throwing short and whipping a cross in?

 

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42 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Will be interesting to see this week's gate vs. Luton - I reckon sub 16k. Luton are not a great draw so soon after PNE and won't bring many. Different story had it been PNE followed by WBA

Pretty sure there were offers for Preston and Luton games, really cheap tickets, which would of helped with the crowd.

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4 minutes ago, headhunter said:

I seem to recall Zak Vyner can throw quite far.

In any event I don't think we should use this tactic EVERY time. Since the opposition have time to position themselves in readiness for the big one how about throwing short and whipping a cross in?

 

That might work if the defenders were expecting a long throw, a double bluff if you like but any type of cross is what defenders are used to.

Many years ago I remember reading something somewhere detailing where most goals come from in the professional game and not as many as you might think actually came from crosses. It was a book iirc.

Where’s DaveFev when you need him. I’m sure he’ll know!

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25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That might work if the defenders were expecting a long throw, a double bluff if you like but any type of cross is what defenders are used to.

Many years ago I remember reading something somewhere detailing where most goals come from in the professional game and not as many as you might think actually came from crosses. It was a book iirc.

Where’s DaveFev when you need him. I’m sure he’ll know!

Don’t know the book, but it’s pretty well-known that crosses from wide (and corners and throw ins) are low percentage.  When you can bring a cross in from the lines of the penalty area (or inside) your chances increase a lot.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Don’t know the book, but it’s pretty well-known that crosses from wide (and corners and throw ins) are low percentage.  When you can bring a cross in from the lines of the penalty area (or inside) your chances increase a lot.

Man City are an object lesson in this. Their aim is often to get behind the defence within the width of the penalty area and pull the ball back.

Much harder to defend than crosses from wide or deep but nostalgia for old fashioned wingers doing exactly that runs deep in fans.

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22 hours ago, Desso said:

Are we getting better? In my opinion, very marginally. Still not good to watch, very little exciting football and no flair without Scott. I'm a season ticket holder, but if I wasn't, would I pay £30 to watch that? No way! I can see the POTD people getting less and less in future. Great pity.

Couldn't agree more!

Very uninspiring football, which if served up under our previous managers, would have caused melt-downs on here.

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20 minutes ago, ooRya said:

Couldn't agree more!

Very uninspiring football, which if served up under our previous managers, would have caused melt-downs on here.

I certainly didn’t think the football was ‘uninspiring’ at all  - as scoreless games it was pretty entertaining 
Remember that City are under transition under Nige and so far he’s doing a decent job. 

As others have said, last season City would almost certainly lost the game on Saturday. This season we’re much more solid at the back greatly assisted by the likes of King, Massengo and James restricting the amount of pressure our defence is under.

Personally I happy enough with the way things are going. So far so good.

 

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I certainly didn’t think the football was ‘uninspiring’ at all  - as scoreless games it was pretty entertaining 
Remember that City are under transition under Nige and so far he’s doing a decent job. 

As others have said, last season City would almost certainly lost the game on Saturday. This season we’re much more solid at the back greatly assisted by the likes of King, Massengo and James restricting the amount of pressure our defence is under.

Personally I happy enough with the way things are going. So far so good.

 

Sorry, just can't see it.

First half on Saturday there was only one team "playing football", and that was a very average Preston side. Whilst we clearly improved after the break, I still didn't see anything to make me think "I can't wait for Wednesday".

As a previous poster suggested, if I didn't have a season ticket, would I be going down to on a Wednesday evening to watch the current team taking on Luton, and paying £30 for the privilege?

Sadly, no.

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39 minutes ago, ooRya said:

Sorry, just can't see it.

First half on Saturday there was only one team "playing football", and that was a very average Preston side. Whilst we clearly improved after the break, I still didn't see anything to make me think "I can't wait for Wednesday".

As a previous poster suggested, if I didn't have a season ticket, would I be going down to on a Wednesday evening to watch the current team taking on Luton, and paying £30 for the privilege?

Sadly, no.

What about our controlled possession of about 25 passes that led to the pitch opening up for Rob Atkinson to drive forward and shoot, or the nearly brilliant one-two between Martin and Weimann that the keeper smothered, or Massengo’s burst between 2 players, or Martin peeling off behind their CB from a James pass to slash wide?  Yes, it was nearly, it was ifs and buts, but that’s the game of football!  We played some neat stuff at times first half, but we are a team that plays a mixed style, erring on the side of direct, fans are gonna have to get their heads around that.

There is more than one way to play football, and as @Robboredsaid it was an entertaining 0-0.  I do think the over-used long throw took away from a reasonable performance.  The expectancy with players in the box, let down by the execution, and the time it took didn’t help the crowd imho.  Don’t forget this is against a PNE side that stop momentum, so you have to make allowances for that.  They are an awful side to play against.  Pring must’ve been man-handled by Sepp Van den Berg 3 or 4 times in the first half to stop our flow.  Sometimes you have to credit the opposition.

If Preston are very average….what is your expectation of City….aren’t we currently “at best”, very average too?  Most fans expected a tough season, a relegation battle was many poster’s view.  

 

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21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What about our controlled possession of about 25 passes that led to the pitch opening up for Rob Atkinson to drive forward and shoot, or the nearly brilliant one-two between Martin and Weimann that the keeper smothered, or Massengo’s burst between 2 players, or Martin peeling off behind their CB from a James pass to slash wide?  Yes, it was nearly, it was ifs and buts, but that’s the game of football!  We played some neat stuff at times first half, but we are a team that plays a mixed style, erring on the side of direct, fans are gonna have to get their heads around that.

There is more than one way to play football, and as @Robboredsaid it was an entertaining 0-0.  I do think the over-used long throw took away from a reasonable performance.  The expectancy with players in the box, let down by the execution, and the time it took didn’t help the crowd imho.  Don’t forget this is against a PNE side that stop momentum, so you have to make allowances for that.  They are an awful side to play against.  Pring must’ve been man-handled by Sepp Van den Berg 3 or 4 times in the first half to stop our flow.  Sometimes you have to credit the opposition.

If Preston are very average….what is your expectation of City….aren’t we currently “at best”, very average too?  Most fans expected a tough season, a relegation battle was many poster’s view.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the position we are in at the moment, how we needed to lose certain players and how that led to a need to rebuild. I'm also enjoying seeing the progress of young players coming through from the academy.

But, with the greatest respect, you are clearly a person who studies the game to a far greater degree than I ever will, or want to if I'm honest. 

Personally, I want to be entertained by a team trying to play a more attacking brand of football than I saw on Saturday.

You are right though, those tedious long throws certainly didn't help!

My expectation of City this season? I think the Championship as a whole is pretty average right now, so can see no reason why we shouldn't be able to finish top half, and with the right attitude/application, pushing to get a play of spot.

Rose tinted glasses? Maybe. But I think we have enough talent in our squad that we shouldn't just accept mediocrity.

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Think a combination of factors are seeing our gates fall;

There are still some not confident (or if they have a serious underlying health condition) of going as a result of the pandemic, especially amongst the 50+ age group.

It is (usually, not in the case of Luton & Preston) too expensive & as we will probably see on Wednesday, the impact of the Sky red button is not insignificant midweek.

As for the style, I am not sure what Pearson is expected to do, if he believes (as I do) a more expansive game would see us gain fewer points then he’s not going there.

All about degrees though, as I couldn’t see say, Dasilva in for Baker or Semenyo/Scott for King is quite the same as gung ho football.

Edited by GrahamC
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38 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Think a combination of factors are seeing our gates fall;

There are still some not confident (or if they have a serious underlying health condition) of going as a result of the pandemic, especially amongst the 50+ age group.

It is (usually, not in the case of Luton & Preston) too expensive & as we will probably see on Wednesday, the impact of the Sky red button is not insignificant midweek.

As for the style, I am not sure what Pearson is expected to do, if he believes (as I do) a more expansive game would see us gain fewer points then he’s not going there.

All about degrees though, as I couldn’t see say, Dasilva in for Baker or Semenyo/Scott for King is quite the same as gung ho football.

Think it might get a bit worse if the Bears have a good start.

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4 hours ago, Robbored said:

That might work if the defenders were expecting a long throw, a double bluff if you like but any type of cross is what defenders are used to.

Many years ago I remember reading something somewhere detailing where most goals come from in the professional game and not as many as you might think actually came from crosses. It was a book iirc.

Where’s DaveFev when you need him. I’m sure he’ll know!

Might have been "Why England lose"? The one where they go on about blond players (seriously, there's stats)

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Was it just coincidence the coughing outbursts from the unfortunate chairman (get well soon HH) always seemed to erupt just as Ian was in full flow?

His hesitation & bemusement (barely concealed fury?) at the repeated onslaught by the host only added to the entertainment, I thought.

 

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5 hours ago, Robbored said:

Was going to start a threat about that long throw tactic. 

It’s become predictable and easily defended. Maybe a change of trajectory might produce different problems but how to get distance without the ball arching and dipping?

As for Luton on Wednesday, assuming everyone is available I can’t see Nige making any changes. Having a settled side has its advantages of course.

No need, there's already one started Saturday

Agree though, it's quite predictable and relatively easy to defend against. It worked once by surprise but not much luck since, then again our throws have been shit for years so at least it's a different sort of shit!

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1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Was it just coincidence the coughing outbursts from the unfortunate chairman (get well soon HH) always seemed to erupt just as Ian was in full flow?

His hesitation & bemusement (barely concealed fury?) at the repeated onslaught by the host only added to the entertainment, I thought.

 

It was tactical decision by HH. He threaded the (talking) opportunities through to me behind a flat-footed Ian. 🤣

Edited by Curr Avon
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5 hours ago, Robbored said:

I certainly didn’t think the football was ‘uninspiring’ at all  - as scoreless games it was pretty entertaining 
Remember that City are under transition under Nige and so far he’s doing a decent job. 

As others have said, last season City would almost certainly lost the game on Saturday. This season we’re much more solid at the back greatly assisted by the likes of King, Massengo and James restricting the amount of pressure our defence is under.

Personally I happy enough with the way things are going. So far so good.

 

Sorry but it was pretty dire on Saturday, actually thought we played far better against Swansea. We must be the slowest team in the league we badly need some pace.

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On 12/09/2021 at 10:36, GrahamC said:

Having watched a fair bit of the Sheff U under 23 game (& let’s face it, that isn’t Championship level) I thought it noticeable how much less pressing of the ball he did when compared with Bell, that might explain it.

I know many want to see him given a chance but he’s behind him in the pecking order (& Conway too, if he was fit) IMO.

 

On 12/09/2021 at 10:38, Davefevs said:

I think @Lrrrwill confirm that the u23s played a 343 last season the majority of games so that they could have pace either side of Louis to do that bit of legwork for him.

Actually reading the context of the previous post this time, U23's often stayed in a block and chose when to press on triggers or poor passing etc, it seemed teams found them hard to break down

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