Kid in the Riot Posted September 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Just now, headhunter said: To do so is a sign of not wanting to lose face IMHO Possibly. Though SL has certainly aimed parting shots at previous managers including Cotts and SOD. Why protect MA? Regards thanking MA for the HPC. Maybe it was simply a case that MA did do a good job on that particular project? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman_Stand Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Hampshire Red said: Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that. Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi See you tonight? CoYRS I personally agree with most of what you say despite the many who have since derided it, regardless of whether you are for or against though I do think that as a forum we really need to move on from MA / LJ as I struggle to find many threads where either of them aren't mentioned even now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 2 hours ago, CyderInACan said: I'd imagine that what he says publicly is somewhat poles apart from his private view. While i dont disagree with the general consensus about ashton, i dont see why lansdown would come out publicly to support ashton if he couldnt stand him privately,,, surely he wouldnt bother saying anything about him if he wanted to remain professional, but couldnt stand him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 17 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said: I personally agree with most of what you say despite the many who have since derided it, regardless of whether you are for or against though I do think that as a forum we really need to move on from MA / LJ as I struggle to find many threads where either of them aren't mentioned even now. Thing is, it's being discussed still, purely because of the consequences its had on our football club. It's set us back years, so of course we're still going to discuss it, as it's one of the most important things that's happened to our club in recent years. LJ/MA spent an absolute fortune on players, now we barely have a pot to piss in, but we've got an absolute class manager in (finally), so it's all going to be talking points still, one that I think brings in good discussions. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman_Stand Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Akira said: Thing is, it's being discussed still, purely because of the consequences its had on our football club. It's set us back years, so of course we're still going to discuss it, as it's one of the most important things that's happened to our club in recent years. LJ/MA spent an absolute fortune on players, now we barely have a pot to piss in, but we've got an absolute class manager in (finally), so it's all going to be talking points still, one that I think brings in good discussions. Yest they did under the guidelines set out for them by SL and also on the basis that there were large transfer fee's recouped along the way to pay for it, as for our current financial standing how much of that is down to MA and how much is down to Covid is a very blurred line but we still spent more on transfer fee's than the majority of the division this summer (especially if you take out the clubs on parachute payments) so I'm not sure we are comparitively worse off than anyone else. Improved contracts are also being handed out to the likes of Scott and apparently Pring despite there not necessarily being a need to in terms of expiry dates. I just find it all a bit strange and wearing that every time a positive performance or interview lands its instant met with "we would never have got this from LJ / MA" whereas that simply isn't true...were they perfect? Absolutely not but nothing is in life and that particular cycle had just run its course. I can't remember such vitriol and ill feeling ever being given to any other individuals in my time watching City despite us never having been a genuinely mid to upper table Championship club previously. IMO LJ went at the right time and at that point although we were showing signs of decline and performances hadn't been fantastic for a little while the whole club wasn't broken to the point it was at the end of last season...the Holden appointment that caused the issues and should never happened, we will probably never know who drove that decision. On the flip side I don't think we have "been set back years" and with Pearson at the helm I am hopeful that by the end of this season and definetley next we will be on an upward trajectory again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 hours ago, gamon said: What was interesting is SL still rated Ashton following his departure and had kind words to say. Where would we be without SL???? Who knows - but I'm happy he's here.... His judgement though has to be seen as questionable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, Son of Fred said: Where would we be without SL???? Who knows - but I'm happy he's here.... His judgement though has to be seen as questionable. We would be in the same place probably SL decision making at this club leaves a lot to be desired - there is no strategy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, Son of Fred said: Where would we be without SL???? Who knows - but I'm happy he's here.... His judgement though has to be seen as questionable. Did SL once say that the buck stops with him? No wonder he has stayed tight lipped about his 2 wonder boys that failed him so badly. Without SLs support I dread to think where our club would be today! COYR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 hours ago, Hampshire Red said: Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that. Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi See you tonight? CoYRS Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamon Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 40 minutes ago, Son of Fred said: Where would we be without SL???? Who knows - but I'm happy he's here.... His judgement though has to be seen as questionable. I agree. As to where we'd be without SL? Who knows. Personally, I'm looking forward to where we'll end up with Pearson running the team and Gould ably looking after the other stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, gamon said: I agree. As to where we'd be without SL? Who knows. Personally, I'm looking forward to where we'll end up with Pearson running the team and Gould ably looking after the other stuff. I get the feeling Nige is running a lot more than the first team. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Dolman_Stand said: Yest they did under the guidelines set out for them by SL and also on the basis that there were large transfer fee's recouped along the way to pay for it, as for our current financial standing how much of that is down to MA and how much is down to Covid is a very blurred line but we still spent more on transfer fee's than the majority of the division this summer (especially if you take out the clubs on parachute payments) so I'm not sure we are comparitively worse off than anyone else. Improved contracts are also being handed out to the likes of Scott and apparently Pring despite there not necessarily being a need to in terms of expiry dates. I just find it all a bit strange and wearing that every time a positive performance or interview lands its instant met with "we would never have got this from LJ / MA" whereas that simply isn't true...were they perfect? Absolutely not but nothing is in life and that particular cycle had just run its course. I can't remember such vitriol and ill feeling ever being given to any other individuals in my time watching City despite us never having been a genuinely mid to upper table Championship club previously. IMO LJ went at the right time and at that point although we were showing signs of decline and performances hadn't been fantastic for a little while the whole club wasn't broken to the point it was at the end of last season...the Holden appointment that caused the issues and should never happened, we will probably never know who drove that decision. On the flip side I don't think we have "been set back years" and with Pearson at the helm I am hopeful that by the end of this season and definetley next we will be on an upward trajectory again. I think you are right to raise / debate what you have above, it ain’t black and white is it? I will always try to present a balance in my “arguments” for and against, might not feel an even balance. In Mark Ashton’s case, the view is grey, but imho it’s dark grey, rather than light grey. Others may see it the other way, that’s when good discussion can be held. I think we hit poor discussion when posters can only look at it from one side. It is fine to disagree with the other side but try to explain why is helpful. FWIW, we did stay within FFP, so you can rightly argue that he only spent what he brought in. My side of this debate is that with a diminishing squad in terms of asset value, the ability to sell players to cover the costs was trending towards coming to a head. Covid has sped that up, Covid is not the root cause, “reckless” spending is the root cause. That spending has been the focus of mine since the window of Jan 2018. My analysis over the months since reached a conclusion that the trend did not look good. Rising costs, less players / less value to offset costs with player sales. I think Mark Ashton saw that happening and bailed on us (and his responsibilities too). He rode the good times and was a busted flush here as the going began to get tough. He’s jumped ship to a club about to ride a big wave of investment. He’s an opportunist is a polite way of putting it. Just to follow up on your point RW this summer’s signing - the reason Nige has spent a few quid on transfers is because: he’s cut the wage bill (Bristol Post suggesting by a third - no mean feat, I’m not sure it’s quite that high from my estimates) he’s cut amortisation millstone going forward by about £6m p.a for the next two seasons, and another £5.5m in 23/24 Mark Ashton loaded the accounts with future costs. It looks great to make £25m net in player sales in the 19/20 season, but if you spend £25m on fees plus all the other associated costs, you load costs in over future years. Under MA with LJ and DH (even though DH wasn’t given much in way of transfer funds) they retained a large playing squad at a huge cost, disproportionate to income, and therefore the only way of staying “in budget / FFP” was to sell players. Early days indeed, but not unreasonable to say we might well be getting more for our money with Nige in charge. 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, glynriley said: I get the feeling Nige is running a lot more than the first team. I said in the summer, he’s playing a “General Manager” role too. Whether that balance will change we’ll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Putting your trust in MA to run the club, when you have a son as managing director of the club seems all at odds...what does he manage or direct? Serious question...you'd think he'd be the go between, eyes and ears for SL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, spudski said: Putting your trust in MA to run the club, when you have a son as managing director of the club seems all at odds...what does he manage or direct? Serious question...you'd think he'd be the go between, eyes and ears for SL. There are none so blind as those who will not see 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Red Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Not to go over old news but the bloke was poison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, CyderInACan said: There are none so blind as those who will not see I'd love to know what he actually does on a day to day basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_b Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 At least - if SL wanted to - it’s a lot cheaper to address shortcomings with the women’s team. For the cost of one Nahki Wells (& a lot of persuasion) you could build an entire squad of elite players in an attempt to reach the top fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, spudski said: I'd love to know what he actually does on a day to day basis. Firstly he stares at himself in the mirror, then drives to Portman Rd in his top of the range Merc. Then poses and looks at himself at every opportunity and he struts about the place charming but conning all at the same time. Then he makes statements like “it’s communication, not consultation” when making major decisions. Then he goes home………..and repeats it all again the next day. Edited September 15, 2021 by Robbored 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 50 minutes ago, glynriley said: I get the feeling Nige is running a lot more than the first team. I’m sure he served me a burrito at AG on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 33 minutes ago, spudski said: I'd love to know what he actually does on a day to day basis. Me too, but he does have various roles across City and Bristol Sport….so not all his time is Bristol City. Not defending him btw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBB Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 hours ago, TomF said: I'm still confused by the two posters. I genuinely thought they were the same person…. Posting on one account when drunk and posting on the other when even more so. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 36 minutes ago, spudski said: I'd love to know what he actually does on a day to day basis. Would've been great to have more information on roles and responsibilities but now MA is out and Gould is in I’m a lot less worried tbh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Hampshire Red said: Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that. Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi See you tonight? CoYRS I think most will recognise MA’s skill as a negotiator and his ability to secure some eye watering fees for player sales. However, I think you are interpreting SL’s sustainability strategy a little to generously in Ashton’s favour. SL recognised that we could not continue as we had been, with the owner just pouring more of his money into the club to cover losses, resulting from recruiting journeymen pros on big wages and impossible to ship out easily.. Not just that, but the introduction of ffp meant that he could not continue to do that without penalties resulting. As I saw it, the strategy, as far as player recruitment was concerned, was in 2 parts. 1. The academy, in which ffp allowed SL to invest, would be a focus for our own young players able to develop into first team players and in so doing saving the club money in terms of transfer fees and inflated wages necessary for more experienced players. If, as in the case of the likes of Bryan and Kelly, they developed well enough, but had the chance to move to bigger and better clubs, then we would secure a profit with transfer fees received. 2. Focussing on younger players, costing initially less in transfer fees and wages, able to compete for a first team place but if they developed and wanted to move to bigger and better, could be sold for a profit. Both options would help reduce the wage bill and transfer fees received would help reduce losses and provide funds to further develop and enhance the playing squad. The majority of Ashton’s spectacular sales successes came from players he didn't bring to the club. The success we are now seeing with players coming through the academy ( Pring, Scott and more to come) can hardly be attributed to Ashton - although I suspect he would claim full responsibility and credit for the academy’s success. Had we continued buying and selling as we did with Flint (replacing him with the cheaper but better Webster), then we wouldn't be having this discussion. However, under Ashton’s watch, he garnered a bloated squad , with too many average players, too many midfielders that we pretty similar to each other and, crucially, a bulging wage bill. The latter meant that profits from player sales were then needed to stem growing losses. Instead of being a means to an end, selling players for a profit become an end in itself in order to keep losses within ffp limits. I agree that it now seems that SL invested too much trust in MA ( and whatever he might say publicly, I suspect in private he feels let down). However, in the longer term I think the club is better off without Ashton and the “family and friends” employment agency he seemed to be running while here. In Pearson we have a manager with experience who is moving us forward in the right direction, a new chief exec who is neither seen or heard, but gets on with his job and a medical team that is keeping players on the pitch, rather than in the treatment room. Edited September 15, 2021 by downendcity 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, TomF said: I've just clocked which returned, banned, user it is. Not Wes Burns' dad again . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 15 minutes ago, TomF said: I've just clocked which returned, banned, user it is. Intriguing! I love playing “Guess Who”. I’ll start. Does he wear glasses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Rudolf Hucker said: Intriguing! I love playing “Guess Who”. I’ll start. Does he wear glasses? No, that's me... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairweather Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 4 hours ago, Rudolf Hucker said: Aren't we all? Re Two Posters- think of them like your normal Four Posters just a bit easier to get into to. Shouldn’t slow you down too much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 minute ago, glynriley said: No, that's me... Ok. Does she have a moustache? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Hampshire Red said: Gamon has a very short memory or is very young. Do you remeber the Cup run, beating Man U, giving Man C a harder game than most prem clubs do and LJ taking us to the heights of the Championship when we expected to win every game? We have gone downhill since then and no single coach, player (nor MA) is to'blame' for that. We all know SL found MA to be the first person in football he could really trust and in your personal world one should think about that. Most people on here seem happy to criticise MAand for some reason are happy to ignore and forget the good players he brought in and the great deals he did selling players for good money to fit the business model. Complaining about an ex boss at the club has become one of the biggest yawns on here. Let's get this terrible home run under NP sorted out before forgetting where we were at pressing the top of the Championshi See you tonight? CoYRS Sorry @Hampshire Red but you must live on another planet. We've had bumbling managers and senior staff members and players who weren't very good but, to the best of my knowledge, only two who apparently have knowingly misbehaved for their own benefit. One was Tony Dance and the other is the mist inaptly named MA. I doubt that SL will ever publicly admit how much he was "taken for a ride". Fortunately it may take us a while to recover but I and many others have faith in Pearson, even if he's grumpy sometimes with media people, Gould and Dave Rennie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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