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Is it time to admit.....


BasSavage88

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1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Exactly, patience is required but a tiny minority haven’t got the bollocks for it.

Agreed.

That would be the tiny minority of this forum that attend the matches.

Having witnessed it first hand, we were lucky not to be 3-0 down at half time, and lucky to take the lead.

I think a fair reflection of tonight’s efforts would have been 1-5.

We didn’t win a second ball all game.

And someone tell Kalas that he can’t take long throws, and it doesn’t take 20 seconds to dry a football.

Massengo (again) was the one shining light. 

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27 minutes ago, Oops said:

Agreed.

That would be the tiny minority of this forum that attend the matches.

Having witnessed it first hand, we were lucky not to be 3-0 down at half time, and lucky to take the lead.

I think a fair reflection of tonight’s efforts would have been 1-5.

We didn’t win a second ball all game.

And someone tell Kalas that he can’t take long throws, and it doesn’t take 20 seconds to dry a football.

Massengo (again) was the one shining light. 

I'd hope that most attending games will appreciate that there is a clear improvement upon last season.

IMO the "3-0 down at HT" stuff is a bit melodramatic. Worth noting that Luton's 2 or 3 best chances in the first half were all in the space a 10 second scramble. If one goes in, the others don't, so you can't really count them all together - they're all attempts at scoring the same chance if you get me. 1-0 Luton at HT probably would have been fair.

FWIW I think Kalas played well today. Won many headers, covered in behind well multiple times, made some vital interceptions and blocks, and did better than Vyner at RB. Do agree that the long throw routines perhaps aren't the way forward though.

Tonight was disappointing, but doesn't mean we're not moving in the right direction all things considered. 

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It doesn’t take much of a hard time to draw out those with a lack of maturity, or those not capable of a bit of critical thinking. (There are about 80 million in America at the moment).

If not Pearson, then who ? Very sorry but Pep ain’t coming. Have a look at where the manager is who everybody wanted back in the summer. And doing it with more money and a better squad (on paper).

If we do get rid of him what happens if the next guy can’t turn it around, the situation around money and therefore player’s ain’t going to change.

At some point we have to stick, and build for the future. Unfortunately it ain’t going to happen over night. But people have been saying this for ages, but some just don’t have the maturity to cope with not winning every game 6 nil.

Edited by cityfan1958
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12 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

The problem with a 'three-year rebuild' is that we tend to sell any decent players we get, meaning we have to start again from scratch

I’m so so tired of rebuilding. We’ve been doing it since the season Flint Bryan and Reid were sold. It’ll mean HNM will have to be off to fund it, maybe a couple of the youngsters, maybe Semenyo, when these are the players we should be building around. I just don’t see where the funds come from for a rebuild, unless it’s going to be freebies and promotion within. 

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What everyone seems to forget is that every other team in the championship doesn’t care whether we’re “in transition” or not.

We don’t get the luxury of a year or 2 of being garbage while every other team “transitions” past us.

We are hanging on in every game we play at the moment, and Luton should have won tonight. Just like Preston should have won on Saturday.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

I'd hope that most attending games will appreciate that there is a clear improvement upon last season.

IMO the "3-0 down at HT" stuff is a bit melodramatic. Worth noting that Luton's 2 or 3 best chances in the first half were all in the space a 10 second scramble. If one goes in, the others don't, so you can't really count them all together - they're all attempts at scoring the same chance if you get me. 1-0 Luton at HT probably would have been fair.

FWIW I think Kalas played well today. Won many headers, covered in behind well multiple times, made some vital interceptions and blocks, and did better than Vyner at RB. Do agree that the long throw routines perhaps aren't the way forward though.

Tonight was disappointing, but doesn't mean we're not moving in the right direction all things considered. 

The only improvement on last season is that there are actually fans there.

Other than that, we’re currently moving in one of two directions; sideways or backwards.

Unless Bentley takes a goal kick, in which case it’s way left and into touch.

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2 hours ago, Fuber said:

We have a mismatch of players that don't fit a single system.

Hes working with what he's got. This isn't his squad by an stretch. He signed two players that started in the squad today.

Luton have a settled squad and on that display could easily be top half this season if they're more composed. They are not a bottom half team.

Can we not have this every time we drop points against a team people perceive as weaker than us?

Exactly….we have a system that makes us competitive.  In 5 of 7 games we’ve been exactly that, if not better in some cases.  Boro we were poor bar 20 minutes second half.  Tonight we allowed Luton to have 3 or 4 spells where they created decent chances at will.  We were still able to take a point.  We actually looked pretty solid in spells, dealt with Luton’s changes second half, and almost got an undeserved 3 points. Matt Withers on twitter said perversely it was a point earned, which it was because Luton were the better side.  I just don’t think we were as bad as many people made out tonight.

Fans expectations of dominating games, hammering the likes of Luton, Preston, Millwall, Blackburn, etc is cloud cuckoo land.  We are very much a new team, staring from a low base, and we’ve picked up 9 points from 7 games.

 

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We're a midtable to lower midtable Championship side at the start of a cycle.

I'm not altogether sure what some people expect, my main disappointment so far I suppose is the late goals that saw 4 pts dropped. 

Do I think the squad is a bit light? Yes, a couple probably but we are where we are and encouragingly players in a lot of cases have time on their side.

A bit more gametime for Semenyo wouldn't go amiss either, maybe one or two others as well.

Nice that DaSilva got the assist as well, I think he has more to give, scope to develop attacking wise.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Wow didn't expect this meltdown. Had we have hung on a minute more there would have been threads for various players saying how they deserved their own thread tonight because....

Its not great but its better than last season. It is worrying knowing we have Bournemouth and Fulham at home next couple of games but we could surprise ourselves. 

Anyone saying that NP is not the man for the job needs their head shook. 

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8 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

How long do we keep saying better than last year? We’d have lost that last year. Better than last year. Last year is not a marker you want to use for progress. 
 

I think the question about NP arises because for all the good he has done, he has what? 3-4 wins as city manager. It isn’t the recruitment that is the problem. It is the is he utilising the tools he has as well as he could? 

Last year is absolutely the marker, learning from the mistakes and lack of cohesion in the team is whats happening, thats how you build the platform for improvement. Of which there has been.

He has s lopsided team, solid additions made in king etc to give us a foundation to play from. Its not perfect but certainly getting there.

We could ofc sign 22 players at random, seems to be working well across the water ?

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, MarcusX said:

What will come first, Pearson sacked or people getting Chris Hughton’s name right?

Chris Houghton is the HR recruitment officer at Isewater Enterprises and I can assure you he’s going nowhere. 
 

Ray Hughton, on the other hand, is a waste of space on the production line and may be available soon if he doesn’t pull his finger out. 

Edited by Major Isewater
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8 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

It is going to be a transition to league one if we don’t start winning home games. We have 2 goals and 3 points from 4 home games. All against current bottom half sides. No one has a devine right to win championship games but you do need to win some. We can’t rely on away form to keep us up

Have home points become more valuable than away ones suddenly?

I missed that rule change.

 

It doesn't matter where the points are won, what matters is getting them.

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8 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t think NP is awful. He did/does have a hell of a job on his hands. That said all he has done is get players fitter. Fair enough it needed to be done. Though it isn’t translating to much more success on the pitch. City seem intent on getting mediocre coaches from England though and NP is upper tier of mediocre. So no point in talking about getting rid. No better would come in. 

I'd argue 'solid mid table' is quite a bit more success on the pitch than the relegation form we saw throughout most of last season....

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1 minute ago, 054123 said:

They weren’t guilt edge chances.

If you honestly think we deserved anything from that game then I am at a loss.

The header should have been burried, and Wieman will be disappointed he didn’t score, we let them off the hook and allowed them in to the game. 

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Everyone is pretty much correct.

Yes, the game was poor from us.

Yes we scored first.

Very poor late equalizer again.

Yes - Luton probably should have scored 3

 

Fact remains, NP has to do the work of 3 men to get this shower playing Championship standard.

Some deadwood has gone, but besides 3 or 4 senior players, the rest are distinctly average.

The kids give us all some hope.

 

Pearson needs time to make the sum of the parts greater than the whole.

 

So yeah, parts were crap. Yes Luton should have won. But this season is about staying up, clearing some losses off the books, and persuading our disinterested owner to fall back in love with the Football as much as he does the Rugby.

 

It's about staying up. Midtable is a bonus.  We have a few to come back, but honestly, a couple of injuries to key players, and we are in doo-doo.

 

NP is doing the best he can whilst starting from scratch.  For me he gets this season, with no criticism or complaint.

 

When he can bring 6 or 7 in - then it's his team and time to judge.

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4 minutes ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

Everyone is pretty much correct.

Yes, the game was poor from us.

Yes we scored first.

Very poor late equalizer again.

Yes - Luton probably should have scored 3

Fact remains, NP has to do the work of 3 men to get this shower playing Championship standard.

Some deadwood has gone, but besides 3 or 4 senior players, the rest are distinctly average.

The kids give us all some hope.

Pearson needs time to make the sum of the parts greater than the whole.

So yeah, parts were crap. Yes Luton should have won. It's about staying up. Midtable is a bonus.  We have a few to come back, but honestly, a couple of injuries to key players, and we are in doo-doo.

NP is doing the best he can whilst starting from scratch.  For me he gets this season, with no criticism or complaint.

When he can bring 6 or 7 in - then it's his team and time to judge.

It’s very early days for Nige and we all know that Rome wasn’t built in a day. 

We all need to be patient - NP will get it right.

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9 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

What happened to all the conversations on these boards in pre-season about the fact the best we could realistically hope for this season was painfully slow progress? Why does everyone tip us to struggle and then shit the bed when we draw at home to a resilient side? 

Not scrolled any further so apologies if this clashes with other replies but this is exactly it.

My impression is the vast majority of fans “say” they would be happy with mid-table - given the context of last season and the state of the squad - but are unable to accept the process of achieving such a finish.

Ultimately, coming 12th means losing roughly as many as you win and drawing a fair few too. Sometimes you’ll play well (Swansea home, Cardiff away) and sometimes you won’t (Boro away, Luton home). You’ll have good runs and bad runs. Etc etc.

But I think anyone who can’t see overall we’re on the road to recovery (and maybe those who can’t don’t truly realise what a mess we were in in terms of both the squad and our FFP position to fix it) is short sighted and probably brought hang ups from last season into this.

 

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27 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s very early days for Nige and we all know that Rome wasn’t built in a day. 

We all need to be patient - NP will get it right.

I hope so, but his team selection, set-up, tactics and substitutions in the last two games have been as bad as any manager I can recall.  Baker at left back?  Long throws? Flat 4-4-2?  It’s like watching football thirty years ago.  And this is progress?

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7 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

The problem with a 'three-year rebuild' is that we tend to sell any decent players we get, meaning we have to start again from scratch

We haven’t under Pearson because there’s no one to sell. We need to be patient .
I’ll contradict myself a bit though. The style of football last night was abysmal . By playing two centre halves at full back we have no width , so he’s forced to play 4411 with no creativity. 
we haven’t got the forward line to play 433 but whatever system we play , he has to get proper full backs in the team . Centre halves are not mobile enough to play full back or good enough on the ball. Our width should come from there but it can’t . Therefore we’re restricted to hitting long balls . Dire 

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7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Exactly….we have a system that makes us competitive.  In 5 of 7 games we’ve been exactly that, if not better in some cases.  Boro we were poor bar 20 minutes second half.  Tonight we allowed Luton to have 3 or 4 spells where they created decent chances at will.  We were still able to take a point.  We actually looked pretty solid in spells, dealt with Luton’s changes second half, and almost got an undeserved 3 points. Matt Withers on twitter said perversely it was a point earned, which it was because Luton were the better side.  I just don’t think we were as bad as many people made out tonight.

Fans expectations of dominating games, hammering the likes of Luton, Preston, Millwall, Blackburn, etc is cloud cuckoo land.  We are very much a new team, staring from a low base, and we’ve picked up 9 points from 7 games.

 

Dave, you've got to stop all this talking well considered, sensible stuff, this is OTIB, there's a time and a place...

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21 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I hope so, but his team selection, set-up, tactics and substitutions in the last two games have been as bad as any manager I can recall.  Baker at left back?  Long throws? Flat 4-4-2?  It’s like watching football thirty years ago.  And this is progress?

Did you know that Baker started his career as a LB but was moved to CB? (at Villa I think) It’s not as if he’s never played there before.

I agree about the long throws tho - very rarely does anything come from them and it’s become boringly predictable and easy to defend - I became very frustrated with them last night as I did with Vyner at RB failing to overlap or push on further up the pitch and crossing from way too deep. I was happy to see him replaced with Dasilva who did push on and it was his free kick delivery that led to Bakers goal.

Fans always whinge about various substitutions regardless of who the manager is - they feel as if they know better than fully qualified coaches…………..:cool2:

That said I was surprised to see King come on when it seemed to me that Semenyo with his pace would have been a better option - but then what I do I know?…………:dunno:

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1 hour ago, RedHienz said:

Last year is absolutely the marker, learning from the mistakes and lack of cohesion in the team is whats happening, thats how you build the platform for improvement. Of which there has been.

He has s lopsided team, solid additions made in king etc to give us a foundation to play from. Its not perfect but certainly getting there.

We could ofc sign 22 players at random, seems to be working well across the water ?

 

 

 

What I mean is better than last year isn’t necessarily good enough to stay up. Swansea and Blackpool were good performances where we were unlucky not to win. Preston and Luton we were lucky to pick up a point in each. Perhaps it all evens out. Out of 23 league games at home, it is unlikely we have played a top 10 side come end of season in these 4. 

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

Have home points become more valuable than away ones suddenly?

I missed that rule change.

 

It doesn't matter where the points are won, what matters is getting them.

Come on mate. You know that isn’t what was meant. We aren’t likely to keep the pace of 46 points away from home. So the 12 point pace we currently have at home this season needs to pick up. Fulham and Bournemouth the next 2 at home. Not impossible to win but wouldn’t say we’ll be favourites. Some boos already ringing around the ground at FT. What is the reaction going to be if it gets to 16 games winless at AG? Home form is very important for the season. 

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