Is it time to admit.....

[The Journalist]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Exactly….we have a system that makes us competitive.  In 5 of 7 games we’ve been exactly that, if not better in some cases.  Boro we were poor bar 20 minutes second half.  Tonight we allowed Luton to have 3 or 4 spells where they created decent chances at will.  We were still able to take a point.  We actually looked pretty solid in spells, dealt with Luton’s changes second half, and almost got an undeserved 3 points. Matt Withers on twitter said perversely it was a point earned, which it was because Luton were the better side.  I just don’t think we were as bad as many people made out tonight.

Fans expectations of dominating games, hammering the likes of Luton, Preston, Millwall, Blackburn, etc is cloud cuckoo land.  We are very much a new team, staring from a low base, and we’ve picked up 9 points from 7 games.

 

As I said in another reply, fans would be broadly happy with 12th but can’t accept the inconsistency that lands you in mid-table (ie losing as often as you win!).

Ultimately, the bigger picture here is that at the moment it’s all about slowly building towards something, creating a better culture and togetherness, putting in an infrastructure on and off the pitch, building foundations to push on.

And all of the above has to be bigger than just a desperation to win any individual game. It has to be.

It was that very desperation that caused Lee’s downfall - he stopped trusting his own beliefs, forgot the bigger picture and, though he talked a good game about identity, in practice sacked it off for short-term success.

To give an example now - I don’t think for a second playing four centre-backs  at home to Luton would be Nigel’s preference. No way. And I suspect he’s knowingly not picked his “best” team there. But that back four has also just kept a clean sheet off the back of a good display at Cardiff - what message does that send to an entire group if you’re going to just tear it up?

Because this isn’t about beating Luton at home - this is about putting us in a position to get promoted in 1/2/3 years.

I do understand fans being frustrated with that, when you’re forking out for tickets and travelling miles. It’s not cheap and I forgive anyone for wanting it to happen for us right now. But personally I’m glad the club are no longer thinking like that - because IMO that’s what almost ultimately got us relegated.

Sorry, got a bit waffly, but hopefully you understand my point.

[Phileas Fogg]

11 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

As I said in another reply, fans would be broadly happy with 12th but can’t accept the inconsistency that lands you in mid-table (ie losing as often as you win!).

Exactly. In July when people are looking at a table where all the teams are in alphabetical order and have 0 points, mid table sounds quite good. 

In reality - mid table involves losing as often as you win and lots of frustrating low quality games with disappointments like last night and Blackpool.

Often you see people say "I'd be happy with mid table and young players getting plenty of game time". I've always thought that in most cases that's rubbish as it involves form as we've described and young players having a fair few poor games (ie Alex Scott last night) as that's part of their development.

Also doesn't help that people often post immediately after full time when emotions are high. In reality would be better to sleep on it, but that's not what this forum is for !

[prankerd]

Looking at the form guide i thought a draw against luton would be a good result, its just a shame we let in a last minute goal, i really dont get the bi polar reactions tho when we win and lose, we literally beat cardiff last game and now theres posts and negativity over a draw?! :laugh: 

Do people really think were going to be competing for promotion when we have only signed 4 players and let go of 11?! People need to lower their expectations, we finally have a manager who can read the game and can build a promotion win ing team and the fans moan when the project has barely started! How long did lee johnson get? How much money did he waste? Think people.

[slartibartfast]

11 hours ago, BasSavage88 said:

This seems to be the cop out everytime. How long until it's just that Pearson is a bit shit 

 

Not as shit as your mate Joey Bag !

[ashton_fan]

11 hours ago, Wiltshire robin said:

Exactly, people pull the wool over their eyes just because we have a couple of shiny stands 

Have we actually improved on the field since the lansdowns took over? . Grateful for the money they have put in but the amount of teams that have overtaken us with less resources and potential is incredible in the time they have ran the club.

We're a league higher, we were in L1 when he took over and the Championship was just a dream so we must have overtaken a lot more than have overtaken us

[NewquayRed]

Definitely not, it ain't pretty of that there is no doubt however this was never gonna be a classic season, we've just got to suck it up, keep our expectations in check and have a bit of faith - could be worse could be Forrest and Houghton.  

[sludge]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Exactly….we have a system that makes us competitive.  In 5 of 7 games we’ve been exactly that, if not better in some cases.  Boro we were poor bar 20 minutes second half.  Tonight we allowed Luton to have 3 or 4 spells where they created decent chances at will.  We were still able to take a point.  We actually looked pretty solid in spells, dealt with Luton’s changes second half, and almost got an undeserved 3 points. Matt Withers on twitter said perversely it was a point earned, which it was because Luton were the better side.  I just don’t think we were as bad as many people made out tonight.

Fans expectations of dominating games, hammering the likes of Luton, Preston, Millwall, Blackburn, etc is cloud cuckoo land.  We are very much a new team, staring from a low base, and we’ve picked up 9 points from 7 games.

 

 Agree with you 100% that people who think we should be consistently beating the teams you mention are away with the fairies.

However, the bit I’m struggling with is how flat and lacking in energy/tempo we were last night, particularly in the first half. 

Surely we should be able to match these teams for work rate and will to win? Cuz I didn’t see that last night, and that concerns me.
 

 

[tin]

11 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

It is going to be a transition to league one if we don’t start winning home games. We have 2 goals and 3 points from 4 home games. All against current bottom half sides. No one has a devine right to win championship games but you do need to win some. We can’t rely on away form to keep us up

Is it, though? You know as well as I do the old cliche about anyone can beat anyone in this league and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we got this monkey off our backs against Fulham or Bournemouth in the coming weeks. We seem to perform better when teams come on to us, because we don't have the players to break teams down at home. That's where we are right now and we all know the reasons why. 

After 7 games, we're in 12th place. That's above my expectation for this season. Two individual mistakes in stoppage time this season have prevented us from having 5 more points on the board. But then again, I firmly think we're in a mini league to survive and it'll be the games against Posh, Forest and Barnsley in the next month or so that will go a long way to determining where where we end up. 

Last night was the worst performance under NP so far this season, but we still ended up with a point which is more than the performance deserved. At least we're not being dicked week in, week out like we were under Holden. That's the low point we're slowly emerging out of, IMO.

[Tin Soldier]

Really struggle to understand some of the posts on here.
We are improving under NP compared to the shitshow last year. That team last night was not NPs. It is what he inherited. I’m expecting a relegation fight, and will be all season probably.

Just need to get through this season and survive - that will be a successful season for me. Just glad I didn’t take out a season ticket as pretty hard to watch home games.

[Wiltshire robin]

49 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

We're a league higher, we were in L1 when he took over and the Championship was just a dream so we must have overtaken a lot more than have overtaken us

Not at all , throughout our history we have always fell between the champ and league one so us being in the championship is just standard

[Yoyo2345]

I can't believe we're even discussing this 

[Numero Uno]

10 hours ago, Oops said:

Agreed.

That would be the tiny minority of this forum that attend the matches.

Having witnessed it first hand, we were lucky not to be 3-0 down at half time, and lucky to take the lead.

I think a fair reflection of tonight’s efforts would have been 1-5.

We didn’t win a second ball all game.

And someone tell Kalas that he can’t take long throws, and it doesn’t take 20 seconds to dry a football.

Massengo (again) was the one shining light. 

Plenty of us with patience attend matches. I was there and recognise we were poor but got ourselves in a position to win it and we’re badly let down by our Captain who made a horrendous error. You ain’t some kind of hero getting down the Gate against all the odds whilst the rest of us stay at home being patient. Some just ain’t got the minerals to be patient.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Numero Uno

[Northern Red]

Other posters have already mentioned it, but what stands out for me is that, before the start of the season, pretty much everyone accepted that a complete rebuild was needed and it would take time to turn us into a side that's competing at the right end of the table, and that we'd finally appointed someone with a proven record in doing so.

Yet, the reality is that there are a number of people who were evidently talking bollocks when they said they accepted it, because their reaction to virtually every setback shows that they clearly don't.

If people want to change the manager or whatever because progress isn't quick enough for their liking then fine. I disagree completely but everyone's entitled to their opinion. But please do not insult the intelligence of the majority by claiming that you accept the process and are willing to be patient when you very obviously aren't.

[RedM]

If Luton had scored early, hit the woodwork and forced saves and WE fought back and equalised in the 90+ minute would people be reacting differently?

But yes I agree home form is concerning, we are on a run that is unwanted and hard to shake off mentally. 

[City oz]

12 hours ago, BasSavage88 said:

Pearson just isn't the man for this. It's easy to blame Ashton etc but this team, the way we play and the mentality is ******* dire and doesn't seem to be improving.

I wouldn't be too upset to see him gone anytime soon 

Where is the Aubergine gone

[Dottie]

12 minutes ago, RedM said:

If Luton had scored early, hit the woodwork and forced saves and WE fought back and equalised in the 90+ minute would people be reacting differently?

But yes I agree home form is concerning, we are on a run that is unwanted and hard to shake off mentally. 

I think, whatever NP says, it’s bound to be psychological now. They seem to play with far less fear away from home. Once we get the first home win out of the way we’ll be fine & I don’t think we’ll have to wait long for that

[redseptember]

1 hour ago, The Journalist said:

 

To give an example now - I don’t think for a second playing four centre-backs  at home to Luton would be Nigel’s preference. No way. And I suspect he’s knowingly not picked his “best” team there. But that back four has also just kept a clean sheet off the back of a good display at Cardiff - what message does that send to an entire group if you’re going to just tear it up?

 

It’s all very well making calm, logical, common sense posts but where will that get us?

We were a couple of minutes and a goalkeeping error away from 3 points and also a completely different forum this morning.  I realise everything is about ifs and buts, however maybe threads like this wouldn’t even have got started without Bentley’s rush of blood to the head (in an otherwise very good performance).

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

This many pages really?  You get these games where you just don't play well, if you can win and not play well its a good thing, not losing and playing poorly is ok.  You've got to remember we would have lost this 5 nil last season, the defence is much more resilient.   As long as we learn from this we will do ok this season, we're in a better place than I thought we would be TBH, mid table is a good turn around, last years form was where Forrest are.......

[Northern Red]

6 minutes ago, redseptember said:

It’s all very well making calm, logical, common sense posts but where will that get us?

We were a couple of minutes and a goalkeeping error away from 3 points and also a completely different forum this morning.  I realise everything is about ifs and buts, however maybe threads like this wouldn’t even have got started without Bentley’s rush of blood to the head (in an otherwise very good performance).

Yep. If that doesn't go in there are at least 3 threads started since full time that wouldn't be here, and a good half a dozen posters who wouldn't have said a word either.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Northern Red

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

52 minutes ago, RedM said:

If Luton had scored early, hit the woodwork and forced saves and WE fought back and equalised in the 90+ minute would people be reacting differently?

But yes I agree home form is concerning, we are on a run that is unwanted and hard to shake off mentally. 

I don't think home form is concerning, more painful, I think its a burden that needs to be gone.  The sooner we beat someone at home the better for everyone.

[Rossi the Robin]

Players are fitter not getting injured like last season, he’s bringing the youth through, we are now difficult to beat and we are around mid table with the players putting a shift in.

Gradually getting there - a couple more tweaks and new players and we will be up there 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, GasDestroyer said:

Really struggle to understand some of the posts on here.
We are improving under NP compared to the shitshow last year. That team last night was not NPs. It is what he inherited. I’m expecting a relegation fight, and will be all season probably.

Just need to get through this season and survive - that will be a successful season for me. Just glad I didn’t take out a season ticket as pretty hard to watch home games.

The problem with that is if we are in a relegation battle most of the season it will be very difficult to attract the kind of players that will help us to become the team we all aspire to be won't it.

[lenred]

22 minutes ago, pillred said:

The problem with that is if we are in a relegation battle most of the season it will be very difficult to attract the kind of players that will help us to become the team we all aspire to be won't it.

But we’re not at the moment so why are you catastrophising about it now? 

[pillred]

5 minutes ago, lenred said:

But we’re not at the moment so why are you catastrophising about it now? 

I'm not, Gas destroyer said he expected a relegation fight this season I was merely pointing out that IF we were that would make future player recruitment difficult, did you not read the post I was replying to?

Edited September 16, 2021 by pillred
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[lenred]

2 minutes ago, pillred said:

I'm not, Gas destroyer said he expected a relegation fight this season I was merely pointing out that that would make future player recruitment difficult, did you not read the post I was replying to?

I did and your post sounded like you agreed with him. 

[pillred]

4 minutes ago, lenred said:

I did and your post sounded like you agreed with him. 

Not sure how you could possibly come to that conclusion, explain your reasoning to me. If, it's all hypothetical none of us know what will happen.

Edited September 16, 2021 by pillred
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[lenred]

Just now, pillred said:

Not sure how you could possibly come to that conclusion, explain your reasoning to me.

You didn’t disagree with him, and judging by another post I’ve just seen about ‘thresholds’ it would seem your expecting it. If I’ve got that wrong then I wholeheartedly apologise with a cherry on top. Let’s not derail any more. 

[TonyTonyTony]

I promised myself a while ago id stay off the forum the 24 hours after a poor performance / bad result and i should have listened to myself. Sack him, sack him, sack him. It wont get us anywhere else, in fact i reckon if you got rid of Pearson now we would collapse completely.

Keep the faith

[bcfcredandwhite]

I’m amazed that anyone would seriously want NP gone at this stage of the season. 
This thread has to be a wind-up surely?

[brad blit]

Time to reflect and move on, 1 point closer to 50 and 3 games unbeaten - each run starts from somewhere…..

Going forward hopefully Nigel has learnt 4 things 

1) Baker is not a left back, and Vyner could/should be replaced by Simpson/Tanner

2) We need to play to our strengths and play players in their correct positions, Scott is not a right midfielder 

3) 442 does not work with the players we have available, and we need to be looking at 433 or 4231 so we can control the game better and not look so vulnerable on the break 

4) Long throws do not work, and we need to work on short, sharp patterns of play when the ball is wide rather than lumping it into the box first time