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Championship Attendances


Davefevs

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Saw this earlier.  Pre-Covid full-season attendances / versus this season so far (small sample).  Only covers those clubs in the Champ in 18/19 and this season, so Sheffield Utd in for example.

5B4315DB-E2C8-4033-9976-DC3B75E27055.png.33832000a8939c00f8abe7110efe7d88.png

1 in 6 fans on average staying away as it stands.  Birmingham have had issues with one of their stands I think.  Possible skews it.

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24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Saw this earlier.  Pre-Covid full-season attendances / versus this season so far (small sample).  Only covers those clubs in the Champ in 18/19 and this season, so Sheffield Utd in for example.

5B4315DB-E2C8-4033-9976-DC3B75E27055.png.33832000a8939c00f8abe7110efe7d88.png

1 in 6 fans on average staying away as it stands.  Birmingham have had issues with one of their stands I think.  Possible skews it.

Derby!

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Interesting. But I have a few questions.

A) what is the normal variance for each club between 'normal' seasons.

B) need to account for special cases. Didn't Derby have some issues with ticket sales - ie they didn't or something?

C) also account for positive special cases ie didn't Swansea do a free renewal or something? Might not be remembering that correctly.

D) account for price freezes/drops/rises etc. 

E) what % are ST holders v POTD. Have ST's been sticking with it or not? Hard to say when all clubs just assume every ST holder turns up to every single match.

F) does it include away fans attending in 2018/19 and then not in 2021/22? Could away fans account for a large amount of the change?

Basically it seems a pretty surface level view of the stuff. If this is honestly trying to say "this is how many people are staying away because of Covid", then you need to control for all the other factors that might cause someone to do that.

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36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Saw this earlier.  Pre-Covid full-season attendances / versus this season so far (small sample).  Only covers those clubs in the Champ in 18/19 and this season, so Sheffield Utd in for example.

5B4315DB-E2C8-4033-9976-DC3B75E27055.png.33832000a8939c00f8abe7110efe7d88.png

1 in 6 fans on average staying away as it stands.  Birmingham have had issues with one of their stands I think.  Possible skews it.

Oh no you will upset hampshirereds now with using facts, he was all over the drop in attendance as reason to sack NP, sure he will come up with some other sh1t instead

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36 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Interesting. But I have a few questions.

A) what is the normal variance for each club between 'normal' seasons.

no idea

B) need to account for special cases. Didn't Derby have some issues with ticket sales - ie they didn't or something?

there was something, but don’t know the detail

C) also account for positive special cases ie didn't Swansea do a free renewal or something? Might not be remembering that correctly.

no idea

D) account for price freezes/drops/rises etc.

 No idea

E) what % are ST holders v POTD. Have ST's been sticking with it or not? Hard to say when all clubs just assume every ST holder turns up to every single match.

no idea

F) does it include away fans attending in 2018/19 and then not in 2021/22? Could away fans account for a large amount of the change?

21/22 is this season, therefore away fans

Basically it seems a pretty surface level view of the stuff. If this is honestly trying to say "this is how many people are staying away because of Covid", then you need to control for all the other factors that might cause someone to do that.

It’s not my data….from a Blackburn Fan. I just thought it was a general - attendances are down….was t going all analytical on it ???

⬆️⬆️⬆️

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

⬆️⬆️⬆️

Don't worry mate, I knew it wasn't your data. My questions were not directed at you in expectation of any concrete answer.

Good point on the away fans though.

It is interesting to see that there is a definite reduction in attendances, even without controlling for all factors.

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Saw this earlier.  Pre-Covid full-season attendances / versus this season so far (small sample).  Only covers those clubs in the Champ in 18/19 and this season, so Sheffield Utd in for example.

5B4315DB-E2C8-4033-9976-DC3B75E27055.png.33832000a8939c00f8abe7110efe7d88.png

1 in 6 fans on average staying away as it stands.  Birmingham have had issues with one of their stands I think.  Possible skews it.

Also us being shite at home skews it a bit as well?

More seriously though, I do wonder how many of those absent won’t ever return as they were sadly victims of the pandemic.

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Said in midweek this is only going to grow now with Champions League on Sky, Championship games on the red button & clubs in our division selling access to their home games for £10.

Blackburn have started ok but only had 9,100 in midweek..

Needs a huge review of ticket pricing, though for those of us who bought full price ST in the more expensive parts of the ground, we have possibly ended up paying more than will be the average walk up price by season’s end.

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Said in midweek this is only going to grow now with Champions League on Sky, Championship games on the red button & clubs in our division selling access to their home games for £10.

Blackburn have started ok but only had 9,100 in midweek..

Needs a huge review of ticket pricing, though for those of us who bought full price ST in the more expensive parts of the ground, we have possibly ended up paying more than will be the average walk up price by season’s end.

Worth every penny mind. Imagine paying on the day and ending up sitting by one of the Hampshire lot...:shocking:

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25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Two explanations spring to mind 1) covid 2) PotD prices. 

The first was predictable of course.

Both true. I’d also add:

3) people having over a year to find alternative things to do/just get out of the habit of watching live football. 

More locally our attendance is definitely down and  I’d add….

4) years of stagnation - it feels as though nothing positive has happened since the Man City game. 

5) years of dull football where you’re lucky to see your team have a shot let alone score a goal at home. 
 

Personally I’m surprised how our attendances have held up. You wouldn’t keep going back to the same cinema if the last 60 films had been as dull as our last 3 season’s worth of home games. That’s where football is lucky to have loyal supporters not customers. 
If you take a real view rather than published attendances (including all tickets and season tickets sold) I’d say attendances are now lower than pre-stadium-face-lift levels. 

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4 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Both true. I’d also add:

3) people having over a year to find alternative things to do/just get out of the habit of watching live football. 

More locally our attendance is definitely down and  I’d add….

4) years of stagnation - it feels as though nothing positive has happened since the Man City game. 

5) years of dull football where you’re lucky to see your team have a shot let alone score a goal at home. 
 

 For me the dull football started under GJ and since those days only SC has produced some decent stuff. LJ was the same as his father and DH was no better.

It just reinforces just how stagnant the club had become and Nige has quite a task on his hands to get the club back to playing entertaining football. 

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6 minutes ago, winsaw said:

It's worth remembering attendance are always low in August and September every season due to people being away on holidays and other things being on , probably need to wait till 2nd half of the season to get a clearer picture of how things are going,

Many of those people are ST holders, so counted anyway. I was for Blackpool yet was in Scotland.

 I would be amazed if our gates increase as the winter comes & for all the reasons I posted above, Champions League, Red Button etc..

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8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Many of those people are ST holders, so counted anyway. I was for Blackpool yet was in Scotland.

 I would be amazed if our gates increase as the winter comes & for all the reasons I posted above, Champions League, Red Button etc..

Already going down isn’t it? Just over 16k IIRC midweek against Luton. If the football at home keeps their current pace those season cards might just drop off again next season too. What a business plan! Reduce wage bill 30-40% because of covid. Keep same awful football and results. Charge pre covid prices to watch said shit football

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12 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Interesting. But I have a few questions.

A) what is the normal variance for each club between 'normal' seasons.

B) need to account for special cases. Didn't Derby have some issues with ticket sales - ie they didn't or something?

C) also account for positive special cases ie didn't Swansea do a free renewal or something? Might not be remembering that correctly.

D) account for price freezes/drops/rises etc. 

E) what % are ST holders v POTD. Have ST's been sticking with it or not? Hard to say when all clubs just assume every ST holder turns up to every single match.

F) does it include away fans attending in 2018/19 and then not in 2021/22? Could away fans account for a large amount of the change?

Basically it seems a pretty surface level view of the stuff. If this is honestly trying to say "this is how many people are staying away because of Covid", then you need to control for all the other factors that might cause someone to do that.

You are of course quite right on all counts, from a statistical analysis standpoint, and I doubt it’s possible in practice to control for all those variables, but it’s the best data you’re likely to get and provided one allows for the probable sources of inaccuracy you point out, it does at least give a general steer on what may be happening.

I think the biggest source of distortion is likely to be the one Graham alludes to, which is whether ST holders are counted as present, even when they stay away. I suspect, but cannot prove, that the proportion of people not going to games for Covid-related reasons is actually higher than 1 in 6. I’m an ST holder myself and haven’t attended a game yet, and anecdotally I know of at least 7 people of whom that was also true, up until the most recent home game.

There are still an awful lot of us, particularly those in vulnerable groups, who do not consider it to be safe enough yet to return to live football. That statement will probably evoke the usual mocking response from a minority, but even with the protection of vaccinations this is still a potentially dangerous disease for many and it’s scarcely surprising that some choose to remain cautious. I think attendances are likely to remain depressed for some considerable time to come.

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4 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

You are of course quite right on all counts, from a statistical analysis standpoint, and I doubt it’s possible in practice to control for all those variables, but it’s the best data you’re likely to get and provided one allows for the probable sources of inaccuracy you point out, it does at least give a general steer on what may be happening.

Yes it is likely the best data (actually on that @Davefevs do you have a Source for this?). It does give a general steer. There's obvious been a drop, and of course some of that will be people making the decision that you have made.

I think the biggest source of distortion is likely to be the one Graham alludes to, which is whether ST holders are counted as present, even when they stay away. Generally they always are by the clubs. Matchday figures include all STs, whether they're actually present or not. I suspect, but cannot prove, that the proportion of people not going to games for Covid-related reasons is actually higher than 1 in 6. I’m an ST holder myself and haven’t attended a game yet, and anecdotally I know of at least 7 people of whom that was also true, up until the most recent home game.

Interesting take. Honestly.looking at those figures and thinking through the other reasons that people might stay away...I'd hypothesise that the numbers staying away for "infectious" reasons are actually lower than 1 in 6. Some might stay away for Covid-related economic reasons, and whether to count that as a covid reason or not is a matter for discussion. 

There are still an awful lot of us, particularly those in vulnerable groups, who do not consider it to be safe enough yet to return to live football. That statement will probably evoke the usual mocking response from a minority, but even with the protection of vaccinations this is still a potentially dangerous disease for many and it’s scarcely surprising that some choose to remain cautious. I think attendances are likely to remain depressed for some considerable time to come.

I'm certainly not going to mock you. You have your reasons and make your own decisions. I'm attending two football matches in the next few weeks, my first since our final 125th anniversary home game v Fulham in March 2020. It's going to be interesting to me to see how things have (or have not) changed.

Some responses above. 

Just to clarify that I'm not trying to dismiss or belittle anyone staying away. I was just pointing out that it's simplistic to assume that the whole of the reduction can certainly be attributed to those, like yourself, who are staying away due to the risk of being infected with Covid.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

 For me the dull football started under GJ and since those days only SC has produced some decent stuff. LJ was the same as his father and DH was no better.

It just reinforces just how stagnant the club had become and Nige has quite a task on his hands to get the club back to playing entertaining football. 

Very true and the lack of signing a goalscorer and winger to supply has also put fans off that yhe club eish to temain stagnant .

Just now, RobintheRed Red said:

Very true and the lack of signing a goalscorer and winger to supply has also put fans off that yhe club wish to temain stagnant .

 

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

 For me the dull football started under GJ and since those days only SC has produced some decent stuff. LJ was the same as his father and DH was no better.

It just reinforces just how stagnant the club had become and Nige has quite a task on his hands to get the club back to playing entertaining football. 

Doom doom doom and gloom from you. Be positive for once.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

 For me the dull football started under GJ and since those days only SC has produced some decent stuff. LJ was the same as his father and DH was no better.

It just reinforces just how stagnant the club had become and Nige has quite a task on his hands to get the club back to playing entertaining football. 

Just embarrassing.

GJ’s lowest finish was 10th in the Championship, we have only bettered his worst finish once since then.

I’m no LJ fan but to say the season we beat Man U & were excellent against Man C twice & in the league prior to that, was “dull”, is so obviously wrong that it isn’t worth debating.

Your pathetic attempt to shoehorn GJ into every debate says far more about you than him, he left us 11 years ago now for goodness sake, he was our most successful manager of the last 30 years, so let it go.

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Obviously can’t prove but I think there is a general apathy to return.  Fans have had a year away, find other ways to watch or other things to do on a Saturday afternoon.

We are fortunate to have a good Season Card base (13k iirc).

The economic effects of Covid too versus POTD prices. The last two games were “members for a tenner” too.

Over the Champ attendances will trend down, if City can get going our trend may reverse.  If not there will be plenty of 16k attendances.

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18 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Some responses above. 

Just to clarify that I'm not trying to dismiss or belittle anyone staying away. I was just pointing out that it's simplistic to assume that the whole of the reduction can certainly be attributed to those, like yourself, who are staying away due to the risk of being infected with Covid.

Thanks, and to be equally clear in return, I didn’t for one moment think you’re among those who have been dismissive of people who take a cautious view of the Covid situation, but they do exist, as has been evident from some of the debates on the forum in recent months, and it’s partly because we know that people with a cavalier or complacent attitude are going to be in attendance that some of us choose to stay away - for now.

 I do of course accept, though, that the factors affecting attendances are multiple and complex and it’s not exclusively about the pandemic.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

 For me the dull football started under GJ and since those days only SC has produced some decent stuff. LJ was the same as his father and DH was no better.

It just reinforces just how stagnant the club had become and Nige has quite a task on his hands to get the club back to playing entertaining football. 

Completely agree. SC was so refreshing…. GJ first couple of seasons were good until he got paralysed by the fear of losing… which is exactly what happened with his son. 
Jury is out on Nige and entertaining football…. I’m in hope rather than expectation. 
 

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There are a few that stand out, but generally I'm not surprised. Financially almost everyone has had to think about renewing I would imagine. I was disappointed the club didn't cut prices a bit across the board to, A) Help out fans a little B) Show thanks for many who had written off the original investment and/or followed on the internet and Robins TV C) Make it a little more attractive to floating fans, PotD is just too much for many.
That said it clearly didn't work at Swansea, not sure of their PotD but Season tickets were massively reduced it looks like.

1913600225_Screenshot2021-09-18at08_47_13.png.acfc3cefc93c8a4c14b13b0c0c969111.png

Brum have on going Ground issues, so that goes a way to explaining that one. 
I can imagine Derby fans would be fed up with the seemingly corrupt owners, so in their place I'd stay away.
I found some pricing for the Championship.

Barnsley - £350 to £475

Birmingham - £265 to £505

Blackburn Rovers - No information released yet. ....  £399 - £499

Blackpool - £299 to £649

Bournemouth - £550 to £760

Bristol City - £355 to £636

Cardiff - £249 to £479 **

Coventry - £375

Derby - No information released yet ..........  £319 - £431 but discounts the longer you've had a ST *

Fulham - No information released yet. .....  £309 - £809

Huddersfield Town - £249 to £329

 

**Cardiff's average 2019 was 20,738 , this year so far 18,810 nearly 2k down.

* I think this idea is a clever one. You get a discount up to 40% if you've had a ticket for 10 years. Would make you have second thoughts about ditching your ST and lose discount.

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5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

There are a few that stand out, but generally I'm not surprised. Financially almost everyone has had to think about renewing I would imagine. I was disappointed the club didn't cut prices a bit across the board to, A) Help out fans a little B) Show thanks for many who had written off the original investment and/or followed on the internet and Robins TV C) Make it a little more attractive to floating fans, PotD is just too much for many.
That said it clearly didn't work at Swansea, not sure of their PotD but Season tickets were massively reduced it looks like.

1913600225_Screenshot2021-09-18at08_47_13.png.acfc3cefc93c8a4c14b13b0c0c969111.png

Brum have on going Ground issues, so that goes a way to explaining that one. 
I can imagine Derby fans would be fed up with the seemingly corrupt owners, so in their place I'd stay away.
I found some pricing for the Championship.

Barnsley - £350 to £475

Birmingham - £265 to £505

Blackburn Rovers - No information released yet. ....  £399 - £499

Blackpool - £299 to £649

Bournemouth - £550 to £760

Bristol City - £355 to £636

Cardiff - £249 to £479 **

Coventry - £375

Derby - No information released yet ..........  £319 - £431 but discounts the longer you've had a ST *

Fulham - No information released yet. .....  £309 - £809

Huddersfield Town - £249 to £329

 

**Cardiff's average 2019 was 20,738 , this year so far 18,810 nearly 2k down.

* I think this idea is a clever one. You get a discount up to 40% if you've had a ticket for 10 years. Would make you have second thoughts about ditching your ST and lose discount.

Think we have to be careful on Swansea SC prices.  In effect supporters were given the option of a refund in 20/21 or they could keep their money in the club, get a steaming subscription and get a hugely reduced season card this season.

So that is not the SC price for all supporters, just those who didn’t get their money back last season, here are their actual prices.

B647284E-9C7A-46FA-967F-DC1D9D0D6009.thumb.jpeg.64163ac4e514837cafe20ae81550294e.jpeg

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48 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Just embarrassing.

GJ’s lowest finish was 10th in the Championship, we have only bettered his worst finish once since then.

I’m no LJ fan but to say the season we beat Man U & were excellent against Man C twice & in the league prior to that, was “dull”, is so obviously wrong that it isn’t worth debating.

Your pathetic attempt to shoehorn GJ into every debate says far more about you than him, he was sacked 11 years ago now for goodness sake, he was our most successful manager of the last 30 years, so let it go.

Crikey - how time flies.

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47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Obviously can’t prove but I think there is a general apathy to return.  Fans have had a year away, find other ways to watch or other things to do on a Saturday afternoon.

We are fortunate to have a good Season Card base (13k iirc).

The economic effects of Covid too versus POTD prices. The last two games were “members for a tenner” too.

Over the Champ attendances will trend down, if City can get going our trend may reverse.  If not there will be plenty of 16k attendances.

People have got used to watching it at home, a casual fan turn up on the day and pay £40 or £10 to stream it. Clubs not just us have to look at ways at enticing people back and grab the attention of the casual fan. Tickets given away in schools and parents attend at discounted rates, a package of midweek games at a reduced rate for example 

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37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Obviously can’t prove but I think there is a general apathy to return.  Fans have had a year away, find other ways to watch or other things to do on a Saturday afternoon.

We are fortunate to have a good Season Card base (13k iirc).

The economic effects of Covid too versus POTD prices. The last two games were “members for a tenner” too.

Over the Champ attendances will trend down, if City can get going our trend may reverse.  If not there will be plenty of 16k attendances.

I think you are right Dave. 

Lots of people I know have taken up new past times over the past 18 months, who were regular visitors to the Gate.

Plus others like myself, just find the whole experience of getting to the Gate these days, a complete ball ache. It's like having to plan an expedition to the North Pole.

Sat in traffic, road closures, poor off street parking, unreliable and inadequate times of public transport, and the price of pay on the day have all had a negative affect.

There are many that don't know whether they can make a game, until the morning of a game due to personal circumstances. How nice it would be to just jump in the car, or bus, park up, without being thoroughly stressed out, buy a ticket at a reasonable price, and just enjoy the game, be entertained, and have a few hours away from the pressures of the real world. Unfortunately...you often end up more stressed out than when you left home.

I for one didn't renew my season ticket, not due to covid, but because of the aforementioned.

I'll go to a few games, but I'm not missing it.

I'll get my footy fix from my local Town team. 10 mins down the road, £10 entrance. Sit or stand anywhere. Drink beer on sideline. Chat and laugh with mates...and literally no stress. Still get exactly the same vibe and entertainment as I do at City, but with less stress, more freedom and more left in my pocket, and more time available to do other things on the day.

Its a no brained for me at the moment with present personal circumstances.

 

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