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Andy Cole on Jacki Dziekanowski


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15 hours ago, Robbored said:

I have never understood why so many consider Jackl to be some kind of legend. 

No doubt he about his skills but he was a lazy bugger who scored a massive 7 goals for City. Osman left him out one game and announced that ‘a few tricks and a 30yrd shot isn’t enough’

A maverick carried by the rest of the team.

 

Same here.his record wasn't brilliant for us.mind you when you consider his drinking its not a bad record.

I used to struggle in a factory with a hangover doing nothing,not trying to run around for 90 mins

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1 minute ago, Leveller said:

Some little lads have innate talent that gets nurtured. Some little lads are naturally clumsy with no ball skill. You can’t nurture ANY lad into a skilled footballer. So yes, there is an an element of varied levels of natural ability.

I did not say ANY. Any human (virtually) can develop high levels of skills with a football. Ultra skilled freestylers frequently do not become footballers. A clumsy kid with poor motor skills can improve. A reason we train.

 

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I accept that nuturing, training, intense practice are all factors but so is the hereditary gene which in my opinion is the most important of them all. If your father was a professional footballer then it’s more likely that you’ll inherit some of his genes than say the son of a bricklayer who never played football to any level.

Could you identify what this hereditary gene is? Scientists can identify the ACTN speed gene but not a football gene.

I will ask politely again. What herditary gene do these skillful Brazillians have? Do the Italians have a defending gene? Do the Spanish have a passing gene?

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I definitely don’t buy that. Why do you suppose that professional footballers sometimes produce sons with the same natural skills if there’s no football DNA?

The Lamapards and the Redknaps are two obvious examples. The Hately’s are another. I’m sure that there are others throughout the game. 

The Johnson’s ?

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5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I did not say ANY. Any human (virtually) can develop high levels of skills with a football. Ultra skilled freestylers frequently do not become footballers. A clumsy kid with poor motor skills can improve. A reason we train.

 

Could you identify what this hereditary gene is? Scientists can identify the ACTN speed gene but not a football gene.

I will ask politely again. What herditary gene do these skillful Brazillians have? Do the Italians have a defending gene? Do the Spanish have a passing gene?

Of course not - but because the gene hasn’t yet been identified doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. it seems to me that it must exist when you see so many sons of professional footballers becoming the same themselves.

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25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I accept that nuturing, training, intense practice are all factors but so is the hereditary gene which in my opinion is the most important of them all. If your father was a professional footballer then it’s more likely that you’ll inherit some of his genes than say the son of a bricklayer who never played football to any level.

A bit left field, but as a boy Donald Bradman use to throw a golf ball against a wall and bat it with a stump; so when he got older to hit a cricket ball with a full size bat  became easy for him. 

Pretty sure that constant repetition at a young age hones these skills rather than any inherent DNA ,it's just that if your father is a footballer he is more likely to encourage you than if he was say a motor racing fanatic.

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Just now, Robbored said:

Of course not - but because the gene hasn’t yet been identified doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. it seems to me that it must exist when you see so many sons of professional footballers becoming the same themselves.

Science identifies genes linked to speed, height, weight, body shape, left/right handedness but your footballer’s gene hasn't been identified because it does not exist. 

Sons of pros. That is a question of mindset and behaviours. A footballer will understand more clearly and be able to provide education to their siblings as to what the necessary behaviours are to develop into a footballer. 

Many footballers do not have sons that become pros. Which highlights a flaw in your theory?

You provided an example of Frank Lampard. Fat Frank as he was labelled should not as a non-mesomorph have become a footballer. Only he did due to an extreme training regime that most would never endure. He applied a growth mindset. 

Another poster highlighted Mesi. Physically blessed? Hardly. He was given growth hormones. He again went through a freakish training regime from incredibly early ages. An extreme training regime that most would never endure.

Ronaldo here we have a physical blessed freak but again his training? He is a training phenom. Taking what he had moving from ecto to his explosive meso-ecto all with a mindset and training regime that is legendary in its extremity = Mindset.  

You swerved x2 the question about nations. The skill of the Brazilians, the defending of the Italians, the Spanish passing is not genetic. Its cultural, its mindset and it’s nurtured by how they train. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

A bit left field, but as a boy Donald Bradman use to throw a golf ball against a wall and bat it with a stump; so when he got older to hit a cricket ball with a full size bat  became easy for him. 

Pretty sure that constant repetition at a young age hones these skills rather than any inherent DNA ,it's just that if your father is a footballer he is more likely to encourage you than if he was say a motor racing fanatic.

And training with a tennis ball or a size three ball and moving to a size five does the similar. Do it enough the memory becames larger and permanent. Practice will make permanent. 

Cricketers like tennis players dont have faster reactions. Via their practice they see patterns and understand what is ocurring in a millsecond even subconscioulsy which leads to their response. This also occurs in football. 

 

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16 hours ago, Robbored said:

I have never understood why so many consider Jackl to be some kind of legend. 

No doubt he about his skills but he was a lazy bugger who scored a massive 7 goals for City. Osman left him out one game and announced that ‘a few tricks and a 30yrd shot isn’t enough’

A maverick carried by the rest of the team.

 

Yeah that is 100% how I see him 

 

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Leicester away FA Cup Filbert Street 1992, Nuff said! Andy Cole's book is a good read.

Lots of people have there challenges in life - Jacki was no different, most on here will have them also. Great days following City back in the 80s and 90s.

Edited by GasDestroyer
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He may not have played a huge amount of games for us, but some of the things he did were pure magic and a privilege to behold.

Those magic moments (especially as they have been incredibly rare whilst watching City over many years) will always live long in the memory.

Yes, he liked a drink (as many on here do). But as many friends at the Polish Club in St Pauls Road will vouch, he never played the big "I AM" and was very friendly and approachable.

The demon drink certainly did him no favours, but all idols, such as Jackie, often have faults, just like any other people.

Sto lat Jackie - thanks for those happy memories.

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18 hours ago, Robbored said:

I have never understood why so many consider Jackl to be some kind of legend. 

No doubt he about his skills but he was a lazy bugger who scored a massive 7 goals for City. Osman left him out one game and announced that ‘a few tricks and a 30yrd shot isn’t enough’

A maverick carried by the rest of the team.

 

You play bowls, clearly you don’t like ‘any’ excitement in your life ?

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2 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

You play bowls, clearly you don’t like ‘any’ excitement in your life ?

You’ve obviously not played bowls if you think the game isn’t exciting. Maybe is dull to watch if you don’t know what’s going on.

As for excitement on the pitch I personally liked to see the likes of Walsh, Smudger, Murray et el running at pace with the ball at defenders. That to me is more thrilling than seeing a maverick showboating and then blazing over from 30yds……….:cool2:

 

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In a game, if you try some flicks, long through passes and dramatic overhead bicycle kicks then by the law of averages a few of them will come off over a season and that is what is remembered by those who witness it. You forget the majority of failed attempts.

To be consistently skilled so that it consistently pays off requires practice, practice, practice, practice, practice…..

There is no skill gene.

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8 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

I would say that, to follow Bristol City, myth is pretty vital. The reality is somewhat grey, and disappointing. And Russell Osman.

Allow your imagination to run free a little, every now and again ....

No.

I’d like to imagine us in the top flight, employing a waster who had 5 good games for us then moved to the German second division won’t be the way to ever get us there.

Selling a bloke who went on to score over 100 goals for West Brom to fund the purchase only compounds the stupidity and short term nature of it.

I saw the likes of Cormack, Whitehead, Mann play for us in the top flight, they had flair but also worked for the team.

Russell Osman was in charge of us for what? A year? Total red herring.

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18 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He was just before my time. Was he really head and shoulders in terms of ability above the likes of Noble, JET and Tomlin? All three had incredible natural ability but also never delivered on a regular basis. I feel the highlights reel from those three may exceed Jacki, but could well be wrong. 

Interested to know your opinion.... 

Yes all these types of players were a joy to watch on their day but jacki was something else when Andy Cole states one of the best he's played with that should tell you how good he was .

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17 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Yes all these types of players were a joy to watch on their day but jacki was something else when Andy Cole states one of the best he's played with that should tell you how good he was .

Agree, I’d say Tomlin was probably closest SKILL wise but none of them would have got 60 caps and 20 international goals even if they qualified for a country like Poland.

I still talk about a back heel flick over an Ipswich defenders head nearly 30 years after it happened. 
Of course he had many failings but with Russel Osman as manager he was never going to get the chance to shine for long.

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Just now, ralphindevon said:

Agree, I’d say Tomlin was probably closest SKILL wise but none of them would have got 60 caps and 20 international goals even if they qualified for a country like Poland.

I still talk about a back heel flick over an Ipswich defenders head nearly 30 years after it happened. 
Of course he had many failings but with Russel Osman as manager he was never going to get the chance to shine for long.

True mate unfortunately in our time of watching city they don't come along that often with skills like them it was a joy to watch wasnt it .

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13 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

John motson summed up jacki.

He might be from a diffrent country, but he plays like hes from a diffrent planet.

 

It was quite simply the best individual performance I've ever seen from a City player and I go back to 1975. Nobody before or since has even come close. It was truly brilliant!

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1 minute ago, Ska Junkie said:

It was quite simply the best individual performance I've ever seen from a City player and I go back to 1975. Nobody before or since has even come close. It was truly brilliant!

It was one of those away days that stays with you.

I got up only to hear the news the game was off, my mate had heard it was on and said we should go anyway, so we did and certainly didn’t regret it.

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Can't believe people are comparing Tomlin with Jackie. Wtf ?

I was in the home end, with many others at Leicester. Jackie was head and shoulders above anyone else that day.

People have to remember we were shit back then. FFS...Andy Llewellyn was playing. 

The whole club was just a bunch of drinkers, Clubbers and chancers.

Cole and Jackie were something else for us. 

You simply can't judge Jackie with others years later. The culture at our club was trash.

Osman was a joke.

 

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21 minutes ago, spudski said:

Can't believe people are comparing Tomlin with Jackie. Wtf ?

I was in the home end, with many others at Leicester. Jackie was head and shoulders above anyone else that day.

People have to remember we were shit back then. FFS...Andy Llewellyn was playing. 

The whole club was just a bunch of drinkers, Clubbers and chancers.

Cole and Jackie were something else for us. 

You simply can't judge Jackie with others years later. The culture at our club was trash.

Osman was a joke.

 

Leicester away what a day out that was. No one gave us a chance. Thousands went from Bristol, great old ground Filbert Street. Jacki as you state dictated the whole game that day - and Leicester were a good side. Great memories. The ground was semi frozen due to the cold weather, players were falling all over the place, whereas Jackie just drifted across the pitch with full balance and composure. The sign of a quality player. Just watch the YouTube video.

For Andy Cole to credit Jackie, when he played with Cantona etc says it all.

Tomlin, forget him, not even on Jackie’s page. Jackie was that good.

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2 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Yes all these types of players were a joy to watch on their day but jacki was something else when Andy Cole states one of the best he's played with that should tell you how good he was .

Yes Jacki was a very talented player in his time

Shame that when he was at City it was not his time

7 Goals, a few tricks and no effort should not make a player a legend 

 

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He was an absolute genius with a football.

I laughed and laughed every game he played. He was that good. Ran rings around everyone, including those in a red shirt.

Football isn't all about goals, XGoals, assists and whatnot, it's about having a laugh and witnessing something truly magical.

Thanks Jacki for making some really dreay days at A Gate an absolute delight.

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11 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

In the championship?! Don’t think so!

People forget the levels that players play for us at. JET v Jacki isn’t even a debate. Jacki wasn’t here for long but he lit up the championship and fans loved him for it. Kids especially.  JET was good in league one. 

If Jacki had played league one football he would have looked insanely good!

I don’t think you need to necessarily compare players as to who had the most skill , and whether they were suited to league one or the championship. The likes of JET and Jacki provide us entertainment , that one moment that we will remember.

Each moment appreciated for what is was and represented  at the time, not whether one was better than the other.

 

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3 hours ago, spudski said:

Can't believe people are comparing Tomlin with Jackie. Wtf ?

I was in the home end, with many others at Leicester. Jackie was head and shoulders above anyone else that day.

People have to remember we were shit back then. FFS...Andy Llewellyn was playing. 

The whole club was just a bunch of drinkers, Clubbers and chancers.

Cole and Jackie were something else for us. 

You simply can't judge Jackie with others years later. The culture at our club was trash.

Osman was a joke.

 

Couldn’t agree more, any decent amount of time watching City and genuine, wow, skill is found rarely. Jacki had that in abundance, light years ahead of Tomlin and JET and proven at a much higher level. The team he was asked to play in was the equivalent of asking Viv Richards to play with Moreton-in-the-Monster-Mash 4ths. Most exciting player I’ve seen since starting watching in 74/75.

Wouldn’t beat Gow, Super Bob or some others to all time favourite, but would be in my all time starting XI, as every now and then, football can be about joy and thrills, as well as (also very enjoyable) effort and guts. Remember a flick over his head in the penalty area against Ipswich at AG, that no one else I’ve seen for City would have tried (apart from Brian Mitchell). Joy to watch. Still got a couple of ‘Solidarnosc’ t shirts. 
 

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