Andy Cole on Jacki Dziekanowski

[BS4 on Tour...]

7 hours ago, GasDestroyer said:

Leicester away FA Cup Filbert Street 1992....

“Dziekanowski is on another planet” - fantastic from the match commentator ...

[formerly known as ivan]

Without wanting to read through 4 pages to see if this question had been asked or answered…

Why did we only keep him for one season? Was there a reason he left when he did?

[Magicdaps]

When you look at his scoring record it's not exactly been phenomenal or record breaking anywhere he's been, Legia Warsaw perhaps being the exception. 

Regardless of his stats, or (in hindsight for me personally) his shortcomings, as a young lad, who was first taken to AG around 90-91 (with no firm allegiance to City at the time) he's probably the main reason I've been a fan ever since...

He clearly had flaws (professionally and personally) but the fact he's still talked about now speaks volumes for the impact he made on so many, myself very much included.

it may well be a heavy dose of pure nostalgia, viewed through three pairs of rose tinted glasses, but I loved him! 

 

[Oh Louie louie]

The wolves game he came on and ran rings around them deserves a mention.

The second goal was genius.

Replacing those 2 with liam robinson.

Unforgivable.

 

[fanjita]

13 hours ago, Robbored said:

You’ve obviously not played bowls if you think the game isn’t exciting. Maybe is dull to watch if you don’t know what’s going on.

As for excitement on the pitch I personally liked to see the likes of Walsh, Smudger, Murray et el running at pace with the ball at defenders. That to me is more thrilling than seeing a maverick showboating and then blazing over from 30yds……….

 

As a fellow bowls player I totally agree with the first paragraph

[Bristol Oil Services]

14 hours ago, GrahamC said:

No.

I’d like to imagine us in the top flight, employing a waster who had 5 good games for us then moved to the German second division won’t be the way to ever get us there.

Selling a bloke who went on to score over 100 goals for West Brom to fund the purchase only compounds the stupidity and short term nature of it.

 

So it's Bristol City FC you're cross/upset with, more so than Dziekanowski. The people that replaced Joe Jordan with Jimmy Lumsden, amongst other things. Dziekanowski is the symptom of a poorly run club, not the cause.

Lumsden, by the way, moved Bob on because Bob was struggling with the loss of his mother (and so the loss of his form) and Jimmy, with his own unresolved grief, was coming to work to get away from all that. He couldn't be doing with it, not at home and at work, understandably. Is my speculative opinion. 

We did replace Dziekanowski with lots of "effort" and it worked for one season (but shaved a fifth off the average attendance). Then we were relegated.

[BTRFTG]

9 hours ago, Magicdaps said:

When you look at his scoring record it's not exactly been phenomenal or record breaking anywhere he's been, Legia Warsaw perhaps being the exception. 

Many omit that in addition to being a legend at AG he, to this day, is worshipped at Celtic Park. I've lost count of the number of times I've bumped into Celtic fans and when they learn of my allegiance talk turns to but one name and the beers start to flow. Unlike us, Celtic have had some big names and performances but few are more fondly recalled than Jacki's 4 goals (he made their 5th) that night against Partizan. It's talked of as the greatest single display ever up there. Strangely, I've never heard Celtic fans bemoan that he wasn't much of a team player.....wonder why?

[BTRFTG]

4 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

The wolves game he came on and ran rings around them deserves a mention.

The second goal was genius.

Replacing those 2 with liam robinson.

Unforgivable.

 

I hear talk there are Posh fans who to this day think 'Spencer' Robinson is the most prolific goalscorer of all time. Some Clubs Do 'Ave 'Em......

[Davefevs]

23 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

That night Cole scored, missed a couple of self-created sitters and spent the remainder openly berating his colleagues at their ineptitude and inability to play the quick and easy ball to him. Open animosity on the park the likes of which rarely seen. Jacki was the only City player on his plane, save he was on the terrace

Different era, but remember “Offside-Kodjia”?  Didn’t run offside when Tomlin came here on loan.  That ability to spot a pass and execute a pass quickly made such a difference to Kodjia.

I saw Jacki twice.  I played Saturdays so in a rainy winter I got to go to Leicester and Forest cup games.  He was a massively talented player.  Whether he did or didn’t do it week in week out I don’t know, but at Filbert Street he was from another planet.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Of course Jacki was one of a long line of players who was a law unto himself and almost unmanageable.  Football history is littered with them:  Frank Worthington, Stan Bowles, Balotelli, etc.  Modern managers have developed the capability to understand how you play such players, and modern football styles suit such players better.  There’s another thread at the moment about Tomlin, who was exactly the same but without Jacki’s charm.  He drove a succession of managers almost insane and it was hardly surprising that a novice like Russell Osman couldn’t deal with him.  The team, the style, the formation, everything had to be built round him, and even then he would have done what he liked (I remember him saying once that he simply didn’t tackle back, it was not in his game).  Wonderfully talented, of course, and fondly remember for the good times, but I remember a lot of games when he was virtually an observer, and another when he could have scored six but missed the lot (ITV did a montage of those misses to the soundtrack of ‘Unbelievable’ by EMF).

[beaverface]

I was there at the old Den when Ray Atteveld scored that amazing volleyed own goal.

 

Even when losing that game, I still felt that we'd get back into it because the the strike force we had that day just seemed to cut through Millwall like a hot knife through butter. I'm pretty sure that we had Cole, Rosenior, Jackie and Allison that day. Pretty much a lethal combination as you had the pace, the power, the skills, the finishing and the heading ability (Rosenior was immense in the air). I don't think we've had such an amazing front line since that day.

As someone else mentioned, the likes of Gus Caesar in defence didn't do us any good.

 

edit: I just googled the squad from that year. Jeeze, what a strike force we had that season. We also had Bob Taylor, Nicky Morgan, Terry Connor, and not to mention the wingers, with Donowa, Smith, Gavin, Junior Bent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_Bristol_City_F.C._season

We must have been so close to getting that right.

edit2: Personally I also thought at the time that Denis Smith was let go too early.

[ThreeWordCityNerd]

30 minutes ago, beaverface said:

Jeeze, what a strike force we had that season.

but crap defence

[Super]

He was very good to watch in fairness like a poor Matt Le Tissier. I doubt he would be in this team now with Pearson in charge.

[shelts]

All about opinion I suppose.  For me the most naturally gifted footballer I’ve seen don our red .  I couldn’t take my eyes off the man. My old man loved him and after Osman sent him packing my old man never set foot in Ashton Gate again. 
His stats ain’t great and he was here not for long but it was enough for me . Andrew Cole would be a judge of a good player . Names my eldest son after him. 

[The Gasbuster]

1 hour ago, ThreeWordCityNerd said:

but crap defence

Yep Cole & Jacki up front but Brian “FFS” Mitchell at the back.

Best City attack I have seen, playing on the same pitch as the worst defence.

[beaverface]

Just now, The Gasbuster said:

Yep Cole & Jacki up front but Brian “FFS” Mitchell at the back.

Best City attack I have seen, playing on the same pitch as the worst defence.

Weirdly, this link doesn't have Brian Mitchell in the squad at that time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_Bristol_City_F.C._season

[beaverface]

52 minutes ago, shelts said:

All about opinion I suppose.  For me the most naturally gifted footballer I’ve seen don our red .  I couldn’t take my eyes off the man. My old man loved him and after Osman sent him packing my old man never set foot in Ashton Gate again. 
His stats ain’t great and he was here not for long but it was enough for me . Andrew Cole would be a judge of a good player . Names my eldest son after him. 

I think the drop in crowds, to probably the lowest they ever got during the 90's and beyond told it's own story on how Osman was rated. I'm pretty sure he's the only player I've heard boo'ed when he scored also, such was the strength of feeling after he let Jackie go.

[The Gasbuster]

Just now, beaverface said:

Weirdly, this link doesn't have Brian Mitchell in the squad at that time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991–92_Bristol_City_F.C._season

I always think of the first game the following season, City v Portsmouth.

An incredible game that ended 3-3. We were brilliant going forward with Cole and Jacki, but utter dogshit at the back.

[italian dave]

15 hours ago, Magicdaps said:

When you look at his scoring record it's not exactly been phenomenal or record breaking anywhere he's been, Legia Warsaw perhaps being the exception. 

Regardless of his stats, or (in hindsight for me personally) his shortcomings, as a young lad, who was first taken to AG around 90-91 (with no firm allegiance to City at the time) he's probably the main reason I've been a fan ever since...

He clearly had flaws (professionally and personally) but the fact he's still talked about now speaks volumes for the impact he made on so many, myself very much included.

it may well be a heavy dose of pure nostalgia, viewed through three pairs of rose tinted glasses, but I loved him! 

 

 

38 minutes ago, shelts said:

All about opinion I suppose.  For me the most naturally gifted footballer I’ve seen don our red .  I couldn’t take my eyes off the man. My old man loved him and after Osman sent him packing my old man never set foot in Ashton Gate again. 
His stats ain’t great and he was here not for long but it was enough for me . Andrew Cole would be a judge of a good player . Names my eldest son after him. 

Exactly this. He was a player people went to football to watch. (I remember meeting someone who wasn't even a City fan but came up from Plymouth regularly to watch him at AG). He was the reason people fell in love with football.  Osman's dislike and eventual despatch of him (Osman was player manager at the time) was one of the reasons Osman became the only City player I can recall who got boo-ed when he scored a goal!

Bit like your old man, Shelts, I stopped my membership of the City Society - or whatever it was called then - when Osman sent him packing and have never got round to rejoining since. 

As @beaverface says, we had some games when Jacki and Andy Cole were joined by the likes of Rosenior and Atteveld and boy, we might have been unpredictable, but we were good to watch!

I agree, and as the OP says, Andy Cole would be a good judge of a player, and has played alongside a good few very top names. It was a long time ago, but as I recall the two of them built up an understanding remarkably quickly, given the short time they played together. And maybe as much as scoring goals Jacki was a creator who plates like Andy Cole need around them.

And, we are talking about a player who played 60 times for his country, scoring 20 goals (and not some third rate country). Who played in European club competitions. Who scored a goal every 3 games at both international and (top) club level. Yet - according to some - not good enough for Bristol City!

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

24 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said:

I always think of the first game the following season, City v Portsmouth.

An incredible game that ended 3-3. We were brilliant going forward with Cole and Jacki, but utter dogshit at the back.

The defence came in for a lot of stick that season, and perhaps justifiably so, but they say that defence starts at the front, and I don’t think our front line felt that defending was much to do with them…

[Cowshed]

44 minutes ago, italian dave said:

 

Exactly this. He was a player people went to football to watch. (I remember meeting someone who wasn't even a City fan but came up from Plymouth regularly to watch him at AG). He was the reason people fell in love with football.  Osman's dislike and eventual despatch of him (Osman was player manager at the time) was one of the reasons Osman became the only City player I can recall who got boo-ed when he scored a goal!

Bit like your old man, Shelts, I stopped my membership of the City Society - or whatever it was called then - when Osman sent him packing and have never got round to rejoining since. 

As @beaverface says, we had some games when Jacki and Andy Cole were joined by the likes of Rosenior and Atteveld and boy, we might have been unpredictable, but we were good to watch!

I agree, and as the OP says, Andy Cole would be a good judge of a player, and has played alongside a good few very top names. It was a long time ago, but as I recall the two of them built up an understanding remarkably quickly, given the short time they played together. And maybe as much as scoring goals Jacki was a creator who plates like Andy Cole need around them.

And, we are talking about a player who played 60 times for his country, scoring 20 goals (and not some third rate country). Who played in European club competitions. Who scored a goal every 3 games at both international and (top) club level. Yet - according to some - not good enough for Bristol City!

And the player who left wasn't good enough to command a starting place in the teams he joined either. 

[Dolman Block B]

On 03/10/2021 at 21:40, Robbored said:

I have never understood why so many consider Jackl to be some kind of legend. 

No doubt he about his skills but he was a lazy bugger who scored a massive 7 goals for City. Osman left him out one game and announced that ‘a few tricks and a 30yrd shot isn’t enough’

A maverick carried by the rest of the team.

 

You of course are kidding Alan?

Jacki was without doubt one of the best talents i have ever seen in my 40 plus years following City.

He could turn a game on a sixpence and he had what many aint got nowadays is flare and passion.

He was loved by us fans, and will always live in our hearts as one of our finest ever players.

[italian dave]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

And the player who left wasn't good enough to command a starting place in the teams he joined either. 

Nope...we ruined him..as we have done others!

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

Nope...we ruined him..as we have done others!

If he was all he was elevated to he would have not joined BCFC. The players carear was on the slide before he came to Ashton Gate. This players mindset was responsible. Andy Cole paints a picture of a man who was less than sober. 

[italian dave]

4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

If he was all he was elevated to he would have not joined BCFC. The players carear was on the slide before he came to Ashton Gate. This players mindset was responsible. Andy Cole paints a picture of a man who was less than sober. 

Of course. I’m not seriously denying that. But it doesn’t alter for a moment what I said about him…..still a genius. Flawed or not. Plus, in my limited personal experience, a really nice guy.
And not unusual in that era for footballers and drink to be talked about in the same sentence. 

[Robbored]

25 minutes ago, Dolman Block B said:

You of course are kidding Alan?

Jacki was without doubt one of the best talents i have ever seen in my 40 plus years following City.

He could turn a game on a sixpence and he had what many aint got nowadays is flare and passion.

He was loved by us fans, and will always live in our hearts as one of our finest ever players.

No I’m not kidding at all. Jackie was a luxury that contributed very little to the team performance and whilst Im not doubting his footballing skills he was a lazy bugger and not a team player.

Like many I enjoyed his tricks and flicks but they were fleeting and his 7 goals kinda says all you need to know.

 

[The Gasbuster]

1 hour ago, beaverface said:

I think the drop in crowds, to probably the lowest they ever got during the 90's and beyond told it's own story on how Osman was rated. I'm pretty sure he's the only player I've heard boo'ed when he scored also, such was the strength of feeling after he let Jackie go.

Osman was also in charge when Cole got sold too.

Not his fault of course that Cole was sold (too cheaply and with no sell on fee - been done on here many times, I know !), but this didn't help his cause.

Cole was sold for £1.75M, and with only a paltry £50k being paid up front by by Newcastle. Our board gave Osman the £50k and he spent it on some bloke called Glen Pennyfather (a part time school teacher). Needless to say this signing did nothing to endear him to the fans.

[GrahamC]

On 05/10/2021 at 08:16, Moments of Pleasure said:

So it's Bristol City FC you're cross/upset with, more so than Dziekanowski. The people that replaced Joe Jordan with Jimmy Lumsden, amongst other things. Dziekanowski is the symptom of a poorly run club, not the cause.

Lumsden, by the way, moved Bob on because Bob was struggling with the loss of his mother (and so the loss of his form) and Jimmy, with his own unresolved grief, was coming to work to get away from all that. He couldn't be doing with it, not at home and at work, understandably. Is my speculative opinion. 

We did replace Dziekanowski with lots of "effort" and it worked for one season (but shaved a fifth off the average attendance). Then we were relegated.

Look, we’re never going to agree, we have been arguing about this on & off since 1993.

I’m glad he brought you happiness, I just find the idolatry for someone who contributed so very little just baffling.

Personally I think Bob was moved on because Lumsden was struggling (well, completely out of his depth) & any decent manager might have looked at the root cause of his form, not gone for a superficial, short term fix replacement instead. Lumsden’s own possible grief to me should have made him more sympathetic to Bob, not less.

But as I said at the outset this all is pretty much pointless, we just see it completely differently & as the intervening 28 years have shown, aren’t ever going to see it the same way.

Cristiano Ronaldo (whatever we think of him, he’s a pretty decent footballer) once said “talent without working hard is nothing”, & for one I certainly can’t argue with that.

[CyderInACan]

This pretty much crops up in one way or another every, what, six months?! 

Every thread also takes very much the same direction. 

I for one enjoyed watching him when he could be bothered. But when he couldn’t be, jesus it was embarrassing. And I didn’t even see a lot of City in those days as I was playing most Saturdays. 

There cant be too many players that polarise opinion as much as Jacki. 

[harvey54]

Leicester away in the FA Cup. Snow and ice pitch side. If you were there, you know.......