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7 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Tbf they do clearly state reasoning within the article.

They make it clear it was elements outside of BLM i.e. Antifa who could use the ruckus for their own agenda. Such as a Cenotaph. As well as the events in London where the Cenotaph was targeted.

Fair enough, but I make no apologies for not believing the sincerity of anything they say in that article. They are after all, self declared hooligans and were most likely going where they thought things might kick off.

Edited by Wanderingred
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2 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Can only echo what’s been said, that we shouldn’t be giving thugs a platform. They have absolutely no right to take the moral high ground in anything, given the damage they have caused to our club and city’s image over the years.

I don’t buy their story anyway. What exactly were they protecting the cenotaph from? Why would BLM protestors want to damage a war memorial? They just wanted an excuse to flex their muscles and hopefully get some agro. 

Because  that's what happened  in London 

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3 hours ago, richwwtk said:

The only reason anyone ever intimated that they may have been racist was their blatant use of the "All Lives Matter" slogan which is undeniably a racist slogan ...

Hi Rich, I’m just a simple Bristolian, but I’m very interested in understanding why you think “All Lives Matter” is “undeniably a racist slogan” - cheers ...

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The banner at the Cenotaph had written on it.

Listen Andy Bennett - we are NOT FAR RIGHT, just ordinary people of all races from Bristol, Bath, Cardiff, Newport etc. united to defend the cenotaph, to defend the memory of people who died so that we are able to have the freedom to protest. ALL LIVES MATTER.

Rich thinks that means so what your saying is your the NF.
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35 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Hi Rich, I’m just a simple Bristolian, but I’m very interested in understanding why you think “All Lives Matter” is “undeniably a racist slogan” - cheers ...

Convenient of you to cut off the rest of Rich's sentence. 

The full sentence actually provides the reasoning.

Edited by JamesBCFC
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Well, credit to those who opened the ‘Lives Matter’ debate. The next logical step in the process is to move from ‘All’ to ‘Some’. Then we get to the interesting bit. Drilling down to ‘which’ lives matter. 
 

For me, It’s got to be those who conduct their lives for the betterment of the planet. Safeguarding the planet’s life support systems for the benefit of all species and future generations. Simply, those who ask themselves ‘have I made the planet a better place by my being’ and can answer in the affirmative. 

The Chinese Communists may be showing the way by developing a culture and societal system based on the collective good. The only problem is that their belief system appears to be based primarily on the progression of the Chinese Economy (which they’ve been stunningly successful at), rather than safeguarding the planet. … but the hope is they may be changing now they’ve seen the consequences of their actions on the environment. 
 

Only on OTIB could we move from The CSF to the future of humanity in two pages.

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6 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Hi Rich, I’m just a simple Bristolian, but I’m very interested in understanding why you think “All Lives Matter” is “undeniably a racist slogan” - cheers ...

Without context and on it's own, it is just a slogan and not at all offensive, after all it encourages people to treat everybody equally.

The problem comes when it is used as a response to "Black Lives Matter" - BLM came about as a way of saying black lives shouldn't be worth less than white, and this was very much seen as a problem in society. When the response to this is "All Lives Matter" then it is about dismissing these fears and effectively saying things are fine as they are.

6 hours ago, Three Lions said:

The banner at the Cenotaph had written on it.

Listen Andy Bennett - we are NOT FAR RIGHT, just ordinary people of all races from Bristol, Bath, Cardiff, Newport etc. united to defend the cenotaph, to defend the memory of people who died so that we are able to have the freedom to protest. ALL LIVES MATTER.

Rich thinks that means so what your saying is your the NF.

Andy Bennett did not call the protestors Far Right (I believe Right Wing was what he said, and being called Right Wing does not mean you are being called racist), so the banner was wrong and misguided from the beginning.

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10 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Can only echo what’s been said, that we shouldn’t be giving thugs a platform. They have absolutely no right to take the moral high ground in anything, given the damage they have caused to our club and city’s image over the years.

I don’t buy their story anyway. What exactly were they protecting the cenotaph from? Why would BLM protestors want to damage a war memorial? They just wanted an excuse to flex their muscles and hopefully get some agro. 

BLM protestors damage memorials all the time, including trying to set fire to the flags on the cenotaph. They’ve also abused soldiers that have cleaned up the mess afterwards.

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45 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Without context and on it's own, it is just a slogan and not at all offensive, after all it encourages people to treat everybody equally.

The problem comes when it is used as a response to "Black Lives Matter" - BLM came about as a way of saying black lives shouldn't be worth less than white, and this was very much seen as a problem in society. When the response to this is "All Lives Matter" then it is about dismissing these fears and effectively saying things are fine as they are.

Andy Bennett did not call the protestors Far Right (I believe Right Wing was what he said, and being called Right Wing does not mean you are being called racist), so the banner was wrong and misguided from the beginning.

The slogan may not be offensive, but has it achieved the assumed objective of changing hearts and minds? 
 

The massive positive its opened up debate.
 

However, if I were an advertising executive in today’s dumbed down world of trying to deal with complex subjects in no more than four words, I would have gone with something like  ‘judge actions, not colour’.

Flags up the issue, informs people what behaviour they need to modify, and inclusive - likely something that can be embraced by all and is relevant, in terms of the responsibilities of living in a complex society, to all ‘sides’ of the debate. 

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7 hours ago, Three Lions said:

The banner at the Cenotaph had written on it.

Listen Andy Bennett - we are NOT FAR RIGHT, just ordinary people of all races from Bristol, Bath, Cardiff, Newport etc. united to defend the cenotaph, to defend the memory of people who died so that we are able to have the freedom to protest. ALL LIVES MATTER.

Rich thinks that means so what your saying is your the NF.

What or whom did the Cenotaph need defending from? 

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11 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

BLM protestors damage memorials all the time, including trying to set fire to the flags on the cenotaph. They’ve also abused soldiers that have cleaned up the mess afterwards.

One person spoke to the soldiers saying they were cleaning it off too quickly and another asked them why they put some placards in a bin, not exactly abuse.

And trying to set fire to the flags was a single 19 year old foolish kid who was filmed and arrested.

All of these people were in the wrong, but hardly the horrendous actions you are making them out to be.

Yes, people shouldn't be spray painting their slogans when on protests, but it's hardly the crime of the century. It can be cleaned off easily enough afterwards with no lasting damage, and War Memorials aren't being targeted specifically, they are highly visible and a magnet for the spray painters.

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8 hours ago, Three Lions said:

The banner at the Cenotaph had written on it.

Listen Andy Bennett - we are NOT FAR RIGHT, just ordinary people of all races from Bristol, Bath, Cardiff, Newport etc. united to defend the cenotaph, to defend the memory of people who died so that we are able to have the freedom to protest. ALL LIVES MATTER.

Rich thinks that means so what your saying is your the NF.

Must have been a big banner to fit all that on.

Edited by Northern Red
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11 hours ago, Fuber said:

Tbf they do clearly state reasoning within the article.

They make it clear it was elements outside of BLM i.e. Antifa who could use the ruckus for their own agenda. Such as a Cenotaph. As well as the events in London where the Cenotaph was targeted.

They aren't right wing neither do they support fascism but wanted to defend the Cenotaph against Antifa (Anti-fascists).......

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1 hour ago, richwwtk said:

Without context and on it's own, it is just a slogan and not at all offensive, after all it encourages people to treat everybody equally.

The problem comes when it is used as a response to "Black Lives Matter" - BLM came about as a way of saying black lives shouldn't be worth less than white, and this was very much seen as a problem in society. When the response to this is "All Lives Matter" then it is about dismissing these fears and effectively saying things are fine as they are.

Andy Bennett did not call the protestors Far Right (I believe Right Wing was what he said, and being called Right Wing does not mean you are being called racist), so the banner was wrong and misguided from the beginning.

You would give Johnathon Edwards a challenge with your hop skip and jump.

The context was on the banner.

WE ARE NOT FAR RIGHT.

People of all races.

Your saying that context doesnt matter. 

The sketch was what the OB said.

The OB sketch was right wing.

No hop skip and jump needed.

Anybody knows what was meant.

As people pointed out at the time that right wing don't let all races in. 

 

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14 hours ago, sticks 1969 said:

Unfortunately like or loathe them they played a major part in Bristol city that only people of a certain age can appreciate 

Well said Sticks , very true indeed. Saved my arse a couple of times  late 80’s early 90’s at Crapdiff and Leicester. Glad I made acquaintance with a fair few Over the years. 
 

Edited by Wealwayseatcheese
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43 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

One person spoke to the soldiers saying they were cleaning it off too quickly and another asked them why they put some placards in a bin, not exactly abuse.

And trying to set fire to the flags was a single 19 year old foolish kid who was filmed and arrested.

All of these people were in the wrong, but hardly the horrendous actions you are making them out to be.

Yes, people shouldn't be spray painting their slogans when on protests, but it's hardly the crime of the century. It can be cleaned off easily enough afterwards with no lasting damage, and War Memorials aren't being targeted specifically, they are highly visible and a magnet for the spray painters.

The sight of war memorials being accidently damaged coincidentally at national BLM demos has left lasting damage. Psychologiocaly it has left a memory. The human brain works like that .. BLM will be instantly linked to defacing memories of the fallen in minds. 

That you think defacing a war memorial is hardly a crime is your view. Its not unique, another poster described what occurred nationally similarly and articulted the Cenotaph was just a pile of stones (?). Undeniably many wholly disagree with your views. To deface a war memorial is a criminal act, these deliberate acts caused wide deep offence and distress.  

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43 minutes ago, Bryans Left Peg said:

They aren't right wing neither do they support fascism but wanted to defend the Cenotaph against Antifa (Anti-fascists).......

In my experience, Antifa may claim to be anti-fascists, but for the most part they're simply anti establishment.

They're as bad if not worse than the 'fascists' they claim to be against. It's simply two sides of a coin. Different being that Antifa (and the far left general) have a tendency to claim anything that doesn't align with their own view as right wing or fascist.

I.e. the damage to Bristol Police Station during the Kill the Bill protest.

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1 hour ago, Sixtyseconds said:

You would give Johnathon Edwards a challenge with your hop skip and jump.

The context was on the banner.

WE ARE NOT FAR RIGHT.

People of all races.

Your saying that context doesnt matter. 

The sketch was what the OB said.

The OB sketch was right wing.

No hop skip and jump needed.

Anybody knows what was meant.

As people pointed out at the time that right wing don't let all races in. 

 

1. The police did not call them Far Right. 

2. All Lives Matter is a racist slogan when used as a response to Black Lives Matter. The people with this banner may not have realised that and I'm quite happy to give them the benefit of the doubt.

3. CSF are a group that drag the name of our club through the mud and the local press should not be legitimising them in this way. 

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The paradox with the CSF (and all “firms”) is this.

Speak to any of them, they’ll tell you that they never went after people who didn’t want to get involved, and it was one firm against another. 
 

However, in the next breath they say how they protected all fans. Hell this was stated in the old Paul Lumber thread, and has already come up here (“glad they were there” etc)

Unless, by some miracle, the CSF are the exception to the rule and didn’t go after people who just wanted to watch the game, and every other firm did, then both of those things can’t be true.

So, the only logical deduction is a load of thugs who wanted a fight with anyone. That’s not football, and I’m glad they’re not a part of our club anymore in any great way. 
 

The cenotaph incident was hopefully the last gasp of an outdated culture. And I for one do not believe a word they say in view of the logic above.

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

The sight of war memorials being accidently damaged coincidentally at national BLM demos has left lasting damage. Psychologiocaly it has left a memory. The human brain works like that .. BLM will be instantly linked to defacing memories of the fallen in minds. 

That you think defacing a war memorial is hardly a crime is your view. Its not unique, another poster described what occurred nationally similarly and articulted the Cenotaph was just a pile of stones (?). Undeniably many wholly disagree with your views. To deface a war memorial is a criminal act, these deliberate acts caused wide deep offence and distress.  

I don't deny it's a crime, people have been arrested for it. What I said was hardly the crime of the century. I agree that a Cenotaph is more than just a pile of stones, much more, but for a bit of protestors spray paint that can easily be washed away the next day to have left lasting damage would suggest extreme sensitivity. 

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13 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Can only echo what’s been said, that we shouldn’t be giving thugs a platform. They have absolutely no right to take the moral high ground in anything, given the damage they have caused to our club and city’s image over the years.

I don’t buy their story anyway. What exactly were they protecting the cenotaph from? Why would BLM protestors want to damage a war memorial? They just wanted an excuse to flex their muscles and hopefully get some agro. 

Agree with your first paragraph. However, you didn't see and coverage of the BLM marches in London then?

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Well I thought it was a good read.

It is disgusting how our mainstream media deliberately put out certain narratives to portray groups of individuals just to silence them 'Far right, right-wing, Fascist'. Just because they're a big group of working class blokes

Edited by 2015
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1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Speak to any of them, they’ll tell you that they never went after people who didn’t want to get involved, and it was one firm against another. 
 

However, in the next breath they say how they protected all fans. Hell this was stated in the old Paul Lumber thread, and has already come up here (“glad they were there” etc)

Unless, by some miracle, the CSF are the exception to the rule and didn’t go after people who just wanted to watch the game, and every other firm did, then both of those things can’t be true.

From a personal experience what you say above is wrong

Yes these people do / did often only come against like minded people but the point you are missing is that the coming to the defence of people is at times when we have been at away games and supporters of other clubs attack anyone in their way, I can personally vouch that at a number of games if these people had not been there things would have gotten a lot worse for many others

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