CSF

[Cowshed]

On 08/10/2021 at 12:51, MarcusX said:

We’re back to that conundrum that sent Cowshed and the like into silence and killed the thread in the politics forum.

You can’t argue that taking the knee is intrinsically linked with BLM and it’s political meanings and cannot simply mean something non-political, and then argue that you can say “All lives matter” in response to a BLM protest and claim that it has no link to BLM and means something else.

Either both can be removed from their “political” or wider meanings, or they can’t.

 

Silence= thinking it was pointless continuing a non-debate and assertions.

People are asserting that ALM is racist. In its literal sense it is not. You(?) and others add context v BLM. That is uncertain. Many will not share your view. But the actual context was as pointed out months ago was this was a group containing people who were not all white, its organiser is in a mix raced relationship. People who bought that banner are anti-racists. As a poster pointed out at the time it’s a circle that cannot be squared to create your racist act assertion. 

Multi racial anti racist racists that is the nonsense narrative that individuals were pushing on OTIB, and others used out in the wider world.

 

 

[spudski]

How do the CSF and other firms, who inflict violence and injury to one another, feel about using the NHS, hospitals, doctors, ambulances, police etc to mop up the self inflicted injuries? Do they think it's reasonable to be looked after, and use up the time of the services ahead of the general public who haven't gone looking for violence? 

Imo...if you go looking for it, don't expect others to mop up your injuries. Sort yourself out. 

[richwwtk]

16 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 

Silence= thinking it was pointless continuing a non-debate and assertions.

People are asserting that ALM is racist. In its literal sense it is not. You(?) and others add context v BLM. That is uncertain. Many will not share your view. But the actual context was as pointed out months ago was this was a group containing people who were not all white, its organiser is in a mix raced relationship. People who bought that banner are anti-racists. As a poster pointed out at the time it’s a circle that cannot be squared to create your racist act assertion. 

Multi racial anti racist racists that is the nonsense narrative that individuals were pushing on OTIB, and others used out in the wider world.

 

 

Please stop bleating on about these people being called racists, I have searched and can't find it. If you can, link it here and maybe you'll have a point.

If not, you are just making them out to be victims of something that never happened.

[Tully Bascomb]

CSF, Fight and Win

[Cowshed]

6 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Please stop bleating on about these people being called racists, I have searched and can't find it. If you can, link it here and maybe you'll have a point.

If not, you are just making them out to be victims of something that never happened.

The only reason anyone ever intimated that they may have been racist was their blatant use of the "All Lives Matter" slogan which is undeniably a racist slogan when used in response to BLM. I think you will find though, that anybody mentioning this would also have said that if they weren't racist, then they just didn't have the brains to realise they were being unintentionally so.

That is your quote from this thread. All Lives Matter is not undeniably a racist slogan. 

The person who purchased the banner has a mixed race family. The group who displayed the banner were multi racial. The group who depending on perception were defending the Cenotaph when criminal acts like pulling down statues were occuring was mixed race. 

These points were posted a year ago. A year later your still pushing (bleating?) the racism line. 

[richwwtk]

1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

The only reason anyone ever intimated that they may have been racist was their blatant use of the "All Lives Matter" slogan which is undeniably a racist slogan when used in response to BLM. I think you will find though, that anybody mentioning this would also have said that if they weren't racist, then they just didn't have the brains to realise they were being unintentionally so.

That is your quote from this thread. All Lives Matter is not undeniably a racist slogan. 

The person who purchased the banner has a mixed race family. The group who displayed the banner were multi racial. The group who depending on perception were defending the Cenotaph when criminal acts like pulling down statues were occuring was mixed race. 

These points were posted a year ago. A year later your still pushing (bleating?) the racism line. 

You are ignoring the fact that I have said that, although it is a racist slogan in that context, the people using it weren't being racist, they were just being ignorant.

I have not called them racist.

[Ska Junkie]

My understanding of the cenotaph event was that people from many different walks of life, including large numbers from BCFC and BRFC stood to defend a memorial to those that never made it home from various conflicts. There were hells angels there and many other groups.

There was no political element to it atall and there were signs stating just this.

It shouldn't have been needed tbh but there were cenotaph attacks in London and Portsmouth which I find deplorable so totally agree with anyone that surrounded and protected the cenotaph when there was the possibilityof damage.

Am I CSF, certainly not, just a bloke who thinks some things are worth defending.

Do I know the CSF? I used to back in the day, most City fans knew them, but not nowadays.

[Cowshed]

7 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

You are ignoring the fact that I have said that, although it is a racist slogan in that context, the people using it weren't being racist, they were just being ignorant.

I have not called them racist.

No I am drawing attention to the actual circumstances. Its deniable All Lives Matter is a racist slogan. In the context it was used that day and by knowledge of whom its more than deniable, its vacuous thinking. 

 

[richwwtk]

5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

No I am drawing attention to the actual circumstances. Its deniable All Lives Matter is a racist slogan. In the context it was used that day and by knowledge of whom its more than deniable, its vacuous thinking. 

 

https://theconversation.com/why-is-it-so-offensive-to-say-all-lives-matter-153188

[Cowshed]

9 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

https://theconversation.com/why-is-it-so-offensive-to-say-all-lives-matter-153188

You are importing and extrapolating context from other continents. The context is what occurred here in BS1.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Cowshed

[richwwtk]

Just now, Cowshed said:

You are importing context and extrapolating from other continents. The context is what occurred here in BS1.

It was on that placard as a response to the phrase Black Lives Matter.

It doesn't really matter what I say because you will refuse to accept it.

This does not change the fact that they were NOT called racist by anybody and you should stop bleating on about it because it is just a false accusation.

[Cowshed]

22 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

It was on that placard as a response to the phrase Black Lives Matter.

It doesn't really matter what I say because you will refuse to accept it.

This does not change the fact that they were NOT called racist by anybody and you should stop bleating on about it because it is just a false accusation.

You are being picked up on what you have said. Yes it was on a placard in BS1. Bought by a group who were mixed race. And the text displayed further context - Not Far Right/All races. 

How in your own words does the above = Your it was undeniably a racist slogan? 

Your fact in the last line. What did Andy Bennett call the group at the Cenotaph? What was being implied? Did he lie? Why call them any wing?  

Edited October 9, 2021 by Cowshed

[2015]

8 hours ago, bris red said:

Its laughable mate. The bottom line is rightly or wrongly firms, violence and the casual culture are a part and parcel of football in this country and across Europe.
 

Am I condoning innocent fans being caught up in incidents of violence?  of course not but lets be brutally honest the match day experience for familys has become absolutely excellent in modern day football in the UK. The days of mass disorder at grounds in this country are done. When was the last time anyone can remember disorder at Ashton Gate that involved familys or innocent fans being involved and or hurt? Swansea at home for me was the last time i can remember disorder (if you can even call it that) on a largeish scale.. a few scuffles between like minded fans at the bottom of the Dolman all over within minutes and  some of perpetrators got handed custodial sentences.. people need to take into context how few and far between these incidents are now especially inside grounds, it’s almost unheard of. Disorder happens away from the ground so it baffles me as to why people even think the CSF has any effect on their life or match day experience, it’s odd that people on here are so passionate about a sub - culture that doesn’t effect them.

Firms and the casual culture will continue to exist in this country and across Europe as ultimately whether the left want to accept it or not football will always continue to be a working class tribal sport and will continue to attract that element of individual to follow it. People need to accept that fact IMO.

Exactly - been to well over 300/400 games following City and probably can count on 1 hand times when I've seen serious mass disorder. It's blown way out of proportion, typical of the woke lot of this forum though

[Wiltshire robin]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

How do the CSF and other firms, who inflict violence and injury to one another, feel about using the NHS, hospitals, doctors, ambulances, police etc to mop up the self inflicted injuries? Do they think it's reasonable to be looked after, and use up the time of the services ahead of the general public who haven't gone looking for violence? 

Imo...if you go looking for it, don't expect others to mop up your injuries. Sort yourself out. 

You could use the same argument for people who get lung cancer after smoking or people who get ill after having a poor diet for years

[Wiltshire robin]

54 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You are being picked up on what you have said. Yes it was on a placard in BS1. Bought by a group who were mixed race. And the text displayed further context - Not Far Right/All races. 

How in your own words does the above = Your it was undeniably a racist slogan? 

Your fact in the last line. What did Andy Bennett call the group at the Cenotaph? What was being implied? Did he lie? Why call them any wing?  

I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with this guy , he’s one of the ones on this forum that find something to be offended by in anything . I know a few people who read the forum but won’t sign up as they think if they say the slightest thing a few people on here will cause a storm.

[spudski]

15 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

You could use the same argument for people who get lung cancer after smoking or people who get ill after having a poor diet for years

You could...and I agree to an extent...however they are all legal activities. Beating the shit out of one another over a game of football isn't.

[MarcusX]

On 08/10/2021 at 12:57, 2015 said:

What is wrong with being patriotic and proud of your Country? Just because you big up your own doesn't mean you hate every other country.. 

Just because patriotism is linked with far right and racism doesn't mean that everyone who chants England is a racist. 

English Patriotism isn't allowed we get that

I’m as patriotic as anyone, I don’t feel the need to waltz down to the local cenotaph, down a few tinnies and start singing England songs. That’s not patriotism, if anything it’s anti social behaviour

Of course I love a sing song at the football as much as anyone, but this wasn’t a football match ffs  

I think you’re being deliberately naive as to why a bunch of blokes would sing England chants towards another group of people, particularly a BLM crowd.

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, Wiltshire robin said:

I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with this guy , he’s one of the ones on this forum that find something to be offended by in anything . I know a few people who read the forum but won’t sign up as they think if they say the slightest thing a few people on here will cause a storm.

I will waste time as I know the individual in the article. He is not a fiend, he is an acquaintance. I think its fair to defend these people and as an acquaintance I can spot an obvious flaw in the posters argument.

A fact as Mr Rees observes here -  Mayor met 'Football Lads' protest organisers 'to hold the city together' - Bristol Live (bristolpost.co.uk) The organiser. His wife is black.

People in the groups at the Cenotaph were Black and Asian. How can a group of White, Black and Asian men be using a slogan in All Lives Matter that is undeniably racist? 

 

[Miah Dennehy]

6 hours ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

I think the intention is genuinely to find like minded, rival groups but when that fails there have been plenty of examples where ‘normal’ fans have become fair game....even if that’s ‘only’ verbal abuse or threats (still out of order).

Its pretty shit.
Like you say though, it’s rarer these days and I’m glad I can take my son to football without the sort of worries my dad would’ve had doing the same with me in the late 80s

I think the main problem now is inadequate men trying to find some kind of validation through football. My lad (who is 24 now) used to come to Rovers with me all the time and we were both caught up in the KFC thing in the JPT game a few years ago. Before kick off that game (we were bussed in and it was pretty well policed before kick off) my lad got spat on through a fence by some **** who probably thought he was CSF. I honestly think he probably didn't mean to spit at a kid, but it happened to land on my lad who reacted and then got abuse from the bloke. When middle aged men are trying to have rows with pre teen kids, then it really has gone way too far. BTW, that was just happened to be my experience as a Rovers fan on that night.. I'm pretty sure most City fans would have been horrified by that blokes behaviour.

 

 

[MarcusX]

6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

 

Silence= thinking it was pointless continuing a non-debate and assertions.

People are asserting that ALM is racist. In its literal sense it is not. You(?) and others add context v BLM. That is uncertain. Many will not share your view. But the actual context was as pointed out months ago was this was a group containing people who were not all white, its organiser is in a mix raced relationship. People who bought that banner are anti-racists. As a poster pointed out at the time it’s a circle that cannot be squared to create your racist act assertion. 

Multi racial anti racist racists that is the nonsense narrative that individuals were pushing on OTIB, and others used out in the wider world.

 

 

I’ll repeat, no one said ALL of them were racist 

[RedZepperin]

33 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said:

 I'm pretty sure most City fans would have been horrified by that blokes behaviour.

As a City fan and father of a 24 year old too, I can confirm that spitting on people (even Rovers fans) is not something we approve of. Pax vobiscum.

[Wiltshire robin]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

I will waste time as I know the individual in the article. He is not a fiend, he is an acquaintance. I think its fair to defend these people and as an acquaintance I can spot an obvious flaw in the posters argument.

A fact as Mr Rees observes here -  Mayor met 'Football Lads' protest organisers 'to hold the city together' - Bristol Live (bristolpost.co.uk) The organiser. His wife is black.

People in the groups at the Cenotaph were Black and Asian. How can a group of White, Black and Asian men be using a slogan in All Lives Matter that is undeniably racist? 

 

Yeh I agree with you 

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I’ll repeat, no one said ALL of them were racist 

An assertion was made. The group which was present at the Cenotaph used a undeniably racist slogan. A fact is the group was multi racial. Mr Rees confirms the organiser has a black wife. The slogan used contains no reference to race. Yet its asserted the group are committing a undisputed racist act. How?

 

[richwwtk]

25 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

An assertion was made. The group which was present at the Cenotaph used a undeniably racist slogan. A fact is the group was multi racial. Mr Rees confirms the organiser has a black wife. The slogan used contains no reference to race. Yet its asserted the group are committing a undisputed racist act. How?

 

I have not said they were being racist, I said they were unwittingly using a slogan that is clearly racist when used as a response to Black Lives Matter.

I fully accept they did not mean it and were not being racist, though I would hope that they would now admit it wasn't the most sensitive thing to be saying.

Do you really not see the issue with using All Lives Matter as a response to the Black Lives Matter slogan?

Edited October 9, 2021 by richwwtk

[Cowshed]

Just now, richwwtk said:

I have not said they were being racist, I said they were unwittingly using a slogan that is clearly racist when used as a response to Black Lives Matter.

I fully accept they did not mean it and were not being racist, though I would hope tha tthey would admit it wasn't the most sensitive thing to be saying.

Do you really not see the issue with using All Lives Matter as a response to the Black Lives Matter slogan?

No I see nothing racist in a mixed race group using the words All Lives Matter. How can that be a clearly racist act?  Literally it is not. There is no reference to race. Its illogical to suggest it was undeniably racist.

The slogan used by a non far-right multi racial group was undeniably anti racist. The words meant exactly what they say .. All Lives Matter. 

[Ska Junkie]

19 hours ago, MarcusX said:

I’m as patriotic as anyone, I don’t feel the need to waltz down to the local cenotaph, down a few tinnies and start singing England songs. That’s not patriotism, if anything it’s anti social behaviour

Of course I love a sing song at the football as much as anyone, but this wasn’t a football match ffs  

I think you’re being deliberately naive as to why a bunch of blokes would sing England chants towards another group of people, particularly a BLM crowd.

I guess that's how it was portrayed on the tele Marcus but it was a very, very small minority doing that. The Vast majority just surrounded the cenotaph. Funny how the media choose to portray something isn't it? You would have thought hundreds were pissed up singing 'Eng er land', which was definitely NOT the case.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Ska Junkie

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

I guess that's how it was portrayed on the tele Marcus but it was a very, very small minority doing that. The Vast majority just surrounded the cenotaph. Funny how the media choose to portray something isn't it? You would have thought hundreds were pissed up singing 'Eng er land', which was definitely NOT the case.

nothing to do with “the media”, but that’s always the go to excuse isn’t it?

[Ska Junkie]

34 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

nothing to do with “the media”, but that’s always the go to excuse isn’t it?

Believe as you wish Marcus. I know many that were down there and the story they tell is a very different one to that portrayed, even to the extent of media asking people to do certain things for the sake of a 'good' picture.

I know who I believe out of mates of 35 years and the press.

[2015]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

Believe as you wish Marcus. I know many that were down there and the story they tell is a very different one to that portrayed, even to the extent of media asking people to do certain things for the sake of a 'good' picture.

I know who I believe out of mates of 35 years and the press.

This guy will believe any nonsense that suits his own misguided narrative

[Ska Junkie]

23 minutes ago, 2015 said:

This guy will believe any nonsense that suits his own misguided narrative

As is his choice 2015. He's wrong but definitely has the right to believe it's right.