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On 09/10/2021 at 10:46, Shaun Taylor said:

We're probably of a similar age and I can relate to how you describe things in the late 70's through to the 80's when every club had a problem with football violence some worse than others

These tribal groups have been around for donkeys years and some of people on here slating members have probably forgot they themselves have possibly been involved in gang activity,we’ve had mods and rockers ,skinheads and grebos and if you look back even further krays and Richardson’s and various sectarian groups ,I know most if not all the lads who are claiming CSF and for all the city fans knocking CSF let me put you straight ,the pitch invasion v Bristol rovers 2013 was nothing to do with CSF but so called fans -so please tell me the difference . CSF is 40 years old and now mostly old men who sit and chat about the past ,I also know most of the tote end boys and we do get on and most of us hate cowardly acts 

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1 hour ago, Magger1 said:

These tribal groups have been around for donkeys years and some of people on here slating members have probably forgot they themselves have possibly been involved in gang activity,we’ve had mods and rockers ,skinheads and grebos and if you look back even further krays and Richardson’s and various sectarian groups ,I know most if not all the lads who are claiming CSF and for all the city fans knocking CSF let me put you straight ,the pitch invasion v Bristol rovers 2013 was nothing to do with CSF but so called fans -so please tell me the difference . CSF is 40 years old and now mostly old men who sit and chat about the past ,I also know most of the tote end boys and we do get on and most of us hate cowardly acts 

Correct Magger. Most on here were probably sucking mummy’s tit at the time.
What people on here don’t realise is that there were a certain group of City fans (yes they were fans) who between them could pull together 200+ lads fairly easily (Bedminster, Knowle, Whitchurch, Barton Hill, Kingswood, Taunton, Bath etc who were all well connected)  when they knew there fans were coming to Bristol to have a row.
Unless you were about at the time, it is probably hard to understand nowadays as football on a Saturday was often a battlefield.

Edited by GasDestroyer
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1 hour ago, GasDestroyer said:

Correct Magger. Most on here were probably sucking mummy’s tit at the time.
What people on here don’t realise is that there were a certain group of City fans (yes they were fans) who between them could pull together 200+ lads fairly easily (Bedminster, Knowle, Whitchurch, Barton Hill, Kingswood, Taunton, Bath etc who were all well connected)  when they knew there fans were coming to Bristol to have a row.
Unless you were about at the time, it is probably hard to understand nowadays as football on a Saturday was often a battlefield.

Mock And Daisy Hes So Brave GIF by Chicks on the Right

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14 hours ago, Magger1 said:

CSF is 40 years old and now mostly old men who sit and chat about the past ,I also know most of the tote end boys and we do get on and most of us hate cowardly acts 

What could be more cowardly than hitting someone just because they support a different football club. I mean how pathetic is that. 

you may as well have a fight because you prefer different breakfast cereals. Or you prefer dogs rather than cats. 

Edited by CyderInACan
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8 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

What could be more cowardly than hitting someone just because they support a different football club. I mean how pathetic is that. 

you may as well have a fight because you prefer different breakfast cereals. Or you prefer dogs rather than cats. 

Hardly cowardly if it's two groups of like minded individuals having a square up.  These blokes arnt wondering down the street kicking lumps out of just anyone it's generally pre organised and I'd imagine takes some bottle if your in to that sort of thing.

Cowardly is someone sitting behind a key board giving it the big I am!

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5 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

What could be more cowardly than hitting someone just because they support a different football club. I mean how pathetic is that. 

you may as well have a fight because you prefer different breakfast cereals. Or you prefer dogs rather than cats. 

 

That's not it though is it; it's a perpetuation of inter-town rivalries that have existed ever since there have been settlements and are frequently expressed physically between two groups of men who are up for a fight.

It became particularly associated with football because games often have a charged atmosphere and integral to the game is the traveling support. Whilst they will be mostly there for the game there will usually be a small element up for a fight who will find an equivalent group awaiting them.

It's not as though someone will see a bloke wearing a different club's football shirt on holiday and walk up and punch him simply for that.

The major basis of the West Ham / Millwall rivalry was that when London was a major import port the docks north and south of the river were competing for jobs and money by having the ships land their side and underhanded and violent methods would be used to achieve this; that all overlapped with the football rivalry.

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Genuinely interested in knowing how many people have been assaulted at a game whilst trying to avoid trouble?  My own personal experience over some 50 years is that you can avoid trouble if you want to. I’m not saying that you can avoid threatening situations but if you go mute when asked the time and are respectful of the place you are visiting then in the main, you’ll be fine. 

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6 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Genuinely interested in knowing how many people have been assaulted at a game whilst trying to avoid trouble?  My own personal experience over some 50 years is that you can avoid trouble if you want to. I’m not saying that you can avoid threatening situations but if you go mute when asked the time and are respectful of the place you are visiting then in the main, you’ll be fine. 

4 of us and a 6 year old boy were walking back to our car at Wallsall 89ish (league game 2-0 win)

We got to a petrol station with a pub opposite when Wallsall fans came out of the pub across the road and started throwing bottles and punches at us. Our mate took his son into the garage and there were some blows traded in the road. Our situation was not a good one untill over the brow of the hill came a large group of city fans. Then the colour drained from the Wallsall fans faces and they started to retreat back into the pub, fortunately for us quite a few didnt get back to safety.

Looking back that was probably a day I rubbed shoulders and was saved by the CSF!

Thanks for your help lads

 

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On 10/10/2021 at 19:03, Ska Junkie said:

Believe as you wish Marcus. I know many that were down there and the story they tell is a very different one to that portrayed, even to the extent of media asking people to do certain things for the sake of a 'good' picture.

I know who I believe out of mates of 35 years and the press.

Was in Bilbao in 82 & England fans and locals were getting on brilliantly but the press were offering £50 to throw a brick through the window as nothing to report about.

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1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

Genuinely interested in knowing how many people have been assaulted at a game whilst trying to avoid trouble?  My own personal experience over some 50 years is that you can avoid trouble if you want to. I’m not saying that you can avoid threatening situations but if you go mute when asked the time and are respectful of the place you are visiting then in the main, you’ll be fine. 

Amici Bar in Nottingham during the Calderwood reign there. Forest thugs randomly attacking our fans (‘scarfers’ not anyone looking for trouble in the slightest) so was not unhappy to see a large contingent of our chaps coming back towards the pub to even out proceedings once theyd obviously got wind of what was happening. 

Edited by lenred
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1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

Genuinely interested in knowing how many people have been assaulted at a game whilst trying to avoid trouble?  My own personal experience over some 50 years is that you can avoid trouble if you want to. I’m not saying that you can avoid threatening situations but if you go mute when asked the time and are respectful of the place you are visiting then in the main, you’ll be fine. 

I have said before - Leicester away - two of us were in the vicinity of the ground and I think they were the "baby squad" or something - they did start to provoke an incident and we were in danger of a bit of a beating - when the CSF arrived (hurrah) and the Baby Squad legged it - I am not condoning anything but still grateful to the CSF to this day. BUT - in my time home and away that is the only time I ever saw it (exception Italy 1980 I think - that was a bit rough at times)...

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59 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Genuinely interested in knowing how many people have been assaulted at a game whilst trying to avoid trouble?  My own personal experience over some 50 years is that you can avoid trouble if you want to. I’m not saying that you can avoid threatening situations but if you go mute when asked the time and are respectful of the place you are visiting then in the main, you’ll be fine. 

Been caught up a few times, more often in non-league to be honest than following City. Perhaps because I went away with them more often when younger, or due to less policing and no segregation plus often the big games attract a number of "day trippers" especially if their team isn't at home. 

I've had to defend an autistic kid that we were with away at Frome, ironically from a number of City fans who had decided to pick on him. Nothing much really came of it other than some gesturing.

I was on a team bus attacked by fans away at Worcester after an FA Cup 1st Round game, bricks thrown at the windows etc. My Dad was punched in the back of the head leaving a game away at Merthyr for no reason.

With City I've seen less but I remember a few, Forest away must have been around 07/08, possibly the promotion season and a ruckus in the car park after the game. Leeds away about 5 years ago, probably after the 2015 season we got caught up leaving the ground walking back to a pub, a group of 10 of us got attacked from all sides just trying to walk up the road. Swansea at home this season we walked past the back of the Atyeo on the way back to the Temple Meads and there were dozens of City about looking for fights, throwing things across the road at the Swansea lot. Cardiff away several times of course, police "tunnels" with fans either side launching stones and bottles of piss was always fun.

I think you're right that you can largely avoid it, but not always. To say that these people only go after likeminded people is, in my experience, completely false. That may have been the case back in the day and their might have been some "code" to it, but not with the younger generation.

On 10/10/2021 at 19:03, Ska Junkie said:

Believe as you wish Marcus. I know many that were down there and the story they tell is a very different one to that portrayed, even to the extent of media asking people to do certain things for the sake of a 'good' picture.

I know who I believe out of mates of 35 years and the press.

To be honest that doesn't surprise me. My only comments about it was the getting pissed up and chanting "Eng Ger Land" chants at people - that happened, there's videos of it and the "all lives matter" on a banner that was unnecessary and provocative. 

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Sometimes, this thing writes itself…

 

3 hours ago, Mike Stone said:

Hardly cowardly if it's two groups of like minded individuals having a square up.  These blokes arnt wondering down the street kicking lumps out of just anyone it's generally pre organised and I'd imagine takes some bottle if your in to that sort of thing.

Cowardly is someone sitting behind a key board giving it the big I am!

 

1 hour ago, Mike Stone said:

4 of us and a 6 year old boy were walking back to our car at Wallsall 89ish (league game 2-0 win)

We got to a petrol station with a pub opposite when Wallsall fans came out of the pub across the road and started throwing bottles and punches at us. Our mate took his son into the garage and there were some blows traded in the road. Our situation was not a good one untill over the brow of the hill came a large group of city fans. Then the colour drained from the Wallsall fans faces and they started to retreat back into the pub, fortunately for us quite a few didnt get back to safety.

Looking back that was probably a day I rubbed shoulders and was saved by the CSF!

Thanks for your help lads

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Markman said:

I have said before - Leicester away - two of us were in the vicinity of the ground and I think they were the "baby squad" or something - they did start to provoke an incident and we were in danger of a bit of a beating - when the CSF arrived (hurrah) and the Baby Squad legged it - I am not condoning anything but still grateful to the CSF to this day. BUT - in my time home and away that is the only time I ever saw it (exception Italy 1980 I think - that was a bit rough at times)...

Italian World Cup I went to along with a big group of City fans. 

The BCFC bulldog flag on this thread page by @sticks 1969 is my mates flag he designed especially for the Italian World Cup. Most of you on here would be amazed who that flag belongs to. So is he a thug because he followed England?

The Italians were riding round on mopeds and stabbing England fans in the backside and then riding off at break neck speed to get away - cowardly act. As an England fan, you had to stay in a group (some would call it a mob on here), otherwise you were picked off by the Italians. Disliked Italian football fans ever since. RIP Ricky M from Bath who was there with us in Italy - great times following England.

Edited by GasDestroyer
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A guy I go to football with (lifelong City fan) was headbutted and had his tooth knocked out by a well known CITY hooligan around 25 years ago. This was supposedly our "protectors" attacking us.

His crime? It was an away match and his CHILD son was wearing a European football shirt this meathead mistook for the away team. They were with the City fans and others in the group had City tops on. The bloke starting threatening and swinging this CHILD around by his shirt/scarf outside after the game, dad stepped between them and got his teeth knocked out as a result.

Protectors my arse.

Sounds more like virtual signaling to me ;) 

Edited by IAmNick
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7 minutes ago, Mike Stone said:

Out of interest what would you of done if you stumbled across our predicament back that day.

Helped some fellow City supporters out or let us get a good kicking.

 

I was merely pointing out what I’ve pointed out consistently - that this isn’t fisticuffs between like minded people (as your first note said it was), but mindless thuggery disregarding anyone who got in the way (as regrettably happened to you in the second note).

Your second note disproves the first theory, as do a lot of recollections on here. Nobody denies CSF protected you. But if you’d have been Walsall fans and the CSF emerged from a pub, at that time the self same would have happened unless - again, by some miracle - CSF were the only “firm” in the country who didn’t go after any other fans.

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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Been caught up a few times, more often in non-league to be honest than following City. Perhaps because I went away with them more often when younger, or due to less policing and no segregation plus often the big games attract a number of "day trippers" especially if their team isn't at home. 

I've had to defend an autistic kid that we were with away at Frome, ironically from a number of City fans who had decided to pick on him. Nothing much really came of it other than some gesturing.

I was on a team bus attacked by fans away at Worcester after an FA Cup 1st Round game, bricks thrown at the windows etc. My Dad was punched in the back of the head leaving a game away at Merthyr for no reason.

With City I've seen less but I remember a few, Forest away must have been around 07/08, possibly the promotion season and a ruckus in the car park after the game. Leeds away about 5 years ago, probably after the 2015 season we got caught up leaving the ground walking back to a pub, a group of 10 of us got attacked from all sides just trying to walk up the road. Swansea at home this season we walked past the back of the Atyeo on the way back to the Temple Meads and there were dozens of City about looking for fights, throwing things across the road at the Swansea lot. Cardiff away several times of course, police "tunnels" with fans either side launching stones and bottles of piss was always fun.

I think you're right that you can largely avoid it, but not always. To say that these people only go after likeminded people is, in my experience, completely false. That may have been the case back in the day and their might have been some "code" to it, but not with the younger generation.

To be honest that doesn't surprise me. My only comments about it was the getting pissed up and chanting "Eng Ger Land" chants at people - that happened, there's videos of it and the "all lives matter" on a banner that was unnecessary and provocative. 

Without getting political, why is 'all lives matter' provocative? I don't get it Marcus.

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4 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

That's not it though is it; it's a perpetuation of inter-town rivalries that have existed ever since there have been settlements and are frequently expressed physically between two groups of men who are up for a fight.

It became particularly associated with football because games often have a charged atmosphere and integral to the game is the traveling support. Whilst they will be mostly there for the game there will usually be a small element up for a fight who will find an equivalent group awaiting them.

It's not as though someone will see a bloke wearing a different club's football shirt on holiday and walk up and punch him simply for that.

The major basis of the West Ham / Millwall rivalry was that when London was a major import port the docks north and south of the river were competing for jobs and money by having the ships land their side and underhanded and violent methods would be used to achieve this; that all overlapped with the football rivalry.

Good post that seems to have gone un-responded too. A lot of the rivalries are built around this and other aspects such as class/political divides. Runs out of steam as an idea though when you think about City fans kicking off in Middlesbrough for example as what is the rivalry there other than that both teams had firms? (Random example) I think you have the roots right and then it sort of became its own beast and effectively culture. (Correct me if I'm wrong those that were involved) 

I'm quite interested in it from a cultural point of view and can understand it to some degree, but the posters here posting their stories of when it goes wrong should also be valued. 

On the original topic I've never heard an anti-fascist say they want to attack war memorials and I think anyone who did would be given short shrift.* Most people have a good awareness of the war and attacking memorials to people that didn't have a choice is a stupid move. I don't believe that for many that is what the day was about, but it was something to rally around other than outright wanting to say they disagree with BLM. 

*Again happy to be corrected here. 

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1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I was merely pointing out what I’ve pointed out consistently - that this isn’t fisticuffs between like minded people (as your first note said it was), but mindless thuggery disregarding anyone who got in the way (as regrettably happened to you in the second note).

Your second note disproves the first theory, as do a lot of recollections on here. Nobody denies CSF protected you. But if you’d have been Walsall fans and the CSF emerged from a pub, at that time the self same would have happened unless - again, by some miracle - CSF were the only “firm” in the country who didn’t go after any other fans.

How are people still not getting this?

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6 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

What could be more cowardly than hitting someone just because they support a different football club. I mean how pathetic is that. 

you may as well have a fight because you prefer different breakfast cereals. Or you prefer dogs rather than cats. 

Imagine if you liked Frosties but owned a Spaniel. You’d be punching yourself in the face constantly.

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