CSF

[richwwtk]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Its half time..

All Lives Matter is a thing in America well a context is its four thousand miles away. However, you decide that this should define the use of language here. You want to enforce your rules of speech.

Society uses due process. Facts. The facts I posted are the context. The group was multi racial, the wording on the banner was unambiguous and clearly not racist. Facts. A context you then decided was irrelevant. Your rules. 

These were working class bloke, not linguists. People can have a different world view to yours and have different standards. Not wrong different.  

You really need to calm down. Nobody called this group racists so not sure why you need to tell us that they were multi racial and not racist in every single one of your posts.

All Lives Matter would not have been put on that banner if it wasn't for the context of it being opposed to a Black Lives Matter demo, so context does indeed very much come into it. It was not intended to be racist, but it does seem to be a little clumsy to me.

[richwwtk]

9 hours ago, GasDestroyer said:

The BCFC bulldog flag on this thread page by @sticks 1969 is my mates flag he designed especially for the Italian World Cup. Most of you on here would be amazed who that flag belongs to. So is he a thug because he followed England?

Why would someone be a thug for following England? I've followed England abroad, it doesn't make you a hooligan.

I suspect most of us on here would not be amazed who the flag belongs to as it's most probably someone we've never heard of and I'm not aware of ever being amazed by ownership of a flag before now.

[stephenkibby.]

This forum now seems to be about anything that's not football.

The politics now come though on nearly every thread. It's bad enough on the politics site where people argue for six months or forever,the same points over and over.

No one ever says oh yeah you made a good point i have now changed my opinion.

So i think i need to spend less time on here maybe only the day before to the day after our games.

I'm sure there will be someone to come on and explain where my thinking is going wrong.

[sglosbcfc]

Groups with privilege, like many white males, will feel threatened and defensive when that privilege is challenged. Realistically, we all know that racism and sexism will continue to exist in British society whilst even the youngest on this forum live. However, for SOME not ALL white males, BLM feels like a threat and a challenge to their 'top dog' status that they are not ready to relinquish. That is before we start on classism. Surely everyone on this forum can agree that life is a hell of a lot easier for a white, middle class male than it is for a black, working class woman for example.

[luke_bristol]

10 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

Groups with privilege, like many white males, will feel threatened and defensive when that privilege is challenged. Realistically, we all know that racism and sexism will continue to exist in British society whilst even the youngest on this forum live. However, for SOME not ALL white males, BLM feels like a threat and a challenge to their 'top dog' status that they are not ready to relinquish. That is before we start on classism. Surely everyone on this forum can agree that life is a hell of a lot easier for a white, middle class male than it is for a black, working class woman for example.

How many white males have privilege? 

[lenred]

12 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

This forum now seems to be about anything that's not football.

The politics now come though on nearly every thread. It's bad enough on the politics site where people argue for six months or forever,the same points over and over.

No one ever says oh yeah you made a good point i have now changed my opinion.

So i think i need to spend less time on here maybe only the day before to the day after our games.

I'm sure there will be someone to come on and explain where my thinking is going wrong.

Not going to say your thinking is wrong at all. But I think that the events of the last 5 years have divided this country for at least a generation and that division is seen most keenly across all mediums of social media, including this forum.
The division is here to stay for the foreseeable and imho will only get worse in the short to medium term as it seems to be affecting most facets of everyday life. 

[Cowshed]

11 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

You really need to calm down. Nobody called this group racists so not sure why you need to tell us that they were multi racial and not racist in every single one of your posts.

All Lives Matter would not have been put on that banner if it wasn't for the context of it being opposed to a Black Lives Matter demo, so context does indeed very much come into it. It was not intended to be racist, but it does seem to be a little clumsy to me.

You still have not answered the earlier questions regarding undeniably racist. 

I am calm. Yes, the group have been called racists according to Bristol antifascists they are notoriously racist, a poster in the sub forum called the group fascists. So yes, there is merit in consistently pointing out what are facts. 

Again, you have made an assertion. I know the banner creator as others do and as several pointed out last year, I think it is highly likely that the creator would not be aware of why you perceive All Lives Matter to be undeniably a racist slogan. 

You are importing and extrapolating context from another continent. The context is what occurred here in BS1. 

The words meant exactly what they say .. All Lives Matter. 

[sglosbcfc]

11 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

How many white males have privilege? 

All of them, by being born white in the UK you have an unearned advantage over black people. Of course you have to factor in class as well, a middle class black man (rare, but they exist) will have some advantages not enjoyed by a working class white man. However, the white man isn't going to be called a n******, is less likely to be pulled over by the police, followed by shop security, turned down for a job etc etc

[luke_bristol]

18 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

All of them, by being born white in the UK you have an unearned advantage over black people. Of course you have to factor in class as well, a middle class black man (rare, but they exist) will have some advantages not enjoyed by a working class white man. However, the white man isn't going to be called a n******, is less likely to be pulled over by the police, followed by shop security, turned down for a job etc etc

”Less likely”, you’re comparing averages. Humans don’t experience averages, they have individual experiences.

White men will feature high in stats in suicide, work place deaths and serious injury, homelessness, be victims of “positive”(:laugh:) discrimination, more likely to move for work, more likely to be denied access to their children, more likely to lose their home during divorce, more likely to be stopped and searched by the police.

Another question (indulge me), is stop and search racist?

Edited October 12, 2021 by luke_bristol

[sglosbcfc]

30 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

”Less likely”, you’re comparing averages. Humans don’t experience averages, they have individual experiences.

White men will feature high in stats in suicide, work place deaths and serious injury, homelessness, be victims of “positive”(:laugh:) discrimination, more likely to move for work, more likely to be denied access to their children, more likely to lose their home during divorce, more likely to be stopped and searched by the police.

Another question (indulge me), is stop and search racist?

Luke, you are correct in identifying the difficulties faced by many white, working class men, but please don't tell me you really believe it is easier to be born a black man in the UK in 2021 than it is a white man? If you do, we'll just have to agree to disagree as I find that belief to be staggeringly inaccurate.

[Redinthehead]

11 hours ago, Cowshed said:

It isn't analogous. The context is the words were included on a banner stating what the group was, a message for a police Superintendent and this was displayed in BS1 by a group that was not exclusively white. This group cannot be perpetuating anything associated with racism, it’s quite the opposite. The group was multiracial.

There was no aid given to any racists. None. Bristol has no far-right groups of any significance. The racist oddballs in caves that there are would loathe knowing who bought the banner, their backgrounds, knowing they were not anything to do with the far-right.

Unfortunately, there are left wing groups who don't like it as well. There is your division. As Steve highlighted in the article. 

As per the politics forum - there has been no evidence prevented that they were called far-right. They were called  ‘right wing’, which they can get offended about by all means. However, no one, despite mentioning it many, many times can actually seem to show anywhere that they were called far right - other than the reference to it on their banner.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Redinthehead

[Pezo]

6 hours ago, sglosbcfc said:

Luke, you are correct in identifying the difficulties faced by many white, working class men, but please don't tell me you really believe it is easier to be born a black man in the UK in 2021 than it is a white man? If you do, we'll just have to agree to disagree as I find that belief to be staggeringly inaccurate.

I think everyone goes through difficult times in there life and has different challenges.

[richwwtk]

7 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Again, you have made an assertion. I know the banner creator as others do and as several pointed out last year, I think it is highly likely that the creator would not be aware of why you perceive All Lives Matter to be undeniably a racist slogan. 

It's not just me that finds All Lives Matter difficult when used as a response to Black Lives Matter, and I am sure that your friend would not have been aware as you point out.

But the fact remains that it can be seen in that way, and I am sure your friend would not have used the slogan had it been explained in advance, as I am sure he would have been keen to avoid even the slightest chance of his banner being perceived in that way.

[richwwtk]

6 hours ago, sglosbcfc said:

Luke, you are correct in identifying the difficulties faced by many white, working class men, but please don't tell me you really believe it is easier to be born a black man in the UK in 2021 than it is a white man? If you do, we'll just have to agree to disagree as I find that belief to be staggeringly inaccurate.

I think people are getting confused by the wording again. If, rather than using the term White Privilege people called it Black Disadvantage or something, then maybe they would be less upset by it.

I know Black Disadvantage does not precisely define it, but I hope you can understand what I am getting at.

[Pezo]

8 hours ago, richwwtk said:

You really need to calm down. Nobody called this group racists so not sure why you need to tell us that they were multi racial and not racist in every single one of your posts.

All Lives Matter would not have been put on that banner if it wasn't for the context of it being opposed to a Black Lives Matter demo, so context does indeed very much come into it. It was not intended to be racist, but it does seem to be a little clumsy to me.

I did a quick search on "All lives matter" and it doesn't appear to be a racist slogan in any context. It appears to be a slogan used in criticism of the Black Lives Matter movement - which isn't beyond criticism.

It does say that All lives matter is associated with conservative values, I would say once again conservative values aren't even close to being racist. What I increasing see is that it is convenient for some to lump everyone on the right in the racist bucket to try and make them look like an extremist which ultimately means they don't want to be part of the conversation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Lives_Matter

[Redinthehead]

9 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I did a quick search on "All lives matter" and it doesn't appear to be a racist slogan in any context. It appears to be a slogan used in criticism of the Black Lives Matter movement - which isn't beyond criticism.

It does say that All lives matter is associated with conservative values, I would say once again conservative values aren't even close to being racist. What I increasing see is that it is convenient for some to lump everyone on the right in the racist bucket to try and make them look like an extremist which ultimately means they don't want to be part of the conversation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Lives_Matter

I don’t necessarily think it’s racist but it literally means the same as Black Lives Matter. Therefore using it is a bit stupid.

[Markman]

Blimey - one wonders where this thread is going -

different views but I knew (know) some CSF and all the ones I know (apart from enjoying a ruck with a rival firm which some find odd) were/are good people and enjoyable to share a beer with - never looking to impact on innocents/bystanders  - I followed City for 45 years, I still don't see it as an inconvenience - yes football had a bad rep but to me at the time and now it was part of the whole experience - I have stood at away games with hundreds/thousands of City away fans when a rumble happened and a chant of CSF went up and pretty much everyone of us applauded and cheered - I did not see many sneering or growling with disdain   

[Sixtyseconds]

14 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

Makes sense, as do the other explanations.

I don't do 'woke' so find this all rather anal tbh. If they 'want  compliance', they can damn well do one. They will grow up eventually.

You can't say this, even though it's correct, as it might upset someone making pretty much the same point. WTF is that about? 

Thanks for the explanations peeps.

No offence to anyone's beliefs btw.

Some of the extreme woke have arrived.

They will utter white privilege .. Hiss it.

It’s in the eyes ... You can see their madness.

They have been radicalised by the books of critical race theory.

Telling everybody what they are.

What you must believe.

Don’t do that and even don’t wear that cos its cultural appropriation.

Putting you in their boxes,

Society is systemically racist.

All white people are racist and have privilege.

Black people can’t be racist.

Prejudice from people of colour to POC is colourism not racism.

Your white kids are racist at birth.

History should be decolonised.

Whites have to atone for their history.

To disagree out comes the you’re a racist card .. A fave on the politics forum of the cult of woke.

These people are batshit crazy.

Some can be saved but some are too far gone now.

If a far gone one approaches you identify as black lgbtq+ Eskimo its the top trump (steady) identity card and cannot get be merked yet.

Stay safe out there.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Sixtyseconds

[IAmNick]

10 hours ago, luke_bristol said:

”Less likely”, you’re comparing averages. Humans don’t experience averages, they have individual experiences.

White men will feature high in stats in suicide, work place deaths and serious injury, homelessness, be victims of “positive”(:laugh:) discrimination, more likely to move for work, more likely to be denied access to their children, more likely to lose their home during divorce, more likely to be stopped and searched by the police.

Another question (indulge me), is stop and search racist?

But you have to look at averages when society is comprised of millions of even billions of people rather than you and your half a dozen mates right? It'd be complete impossible to allocate resources or get anything done otherwise.

The fact you're bringing up "white men" means I'm not sure you seem to get it - just because the issues faced by one group are highlighted doesn't mean the issues faced by another aren't important. I'm not black, but can recognise the significant issues many face in their lives. I can also recognise those that many white men face... the two aren't mutually exclusive.

People talk about the permanently offended. To me those are the ones who when someone goes "Wow, look at the hard time X group has" feel the need to instantly respond "WELL WHAT ABOUT ME AND THE GROUP IM IN I HAVE A HARD TIME TOO" over and over again. Helping one group helps us all. We're all on the same side here.

On "stop and search" I'd be interested why you think "white men" are more likely to be affected (https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/stop-and-search/latest).

White: 6 in every 1,000

Black: 54 in 1,000

Black other: 157 in 1,000

White is actually the lowest of every category.

Is it racist in isolation? Probably not, but the way it's used seems to be. The above is what people are talking about - when people say "we need to help black people out with Stop and Search" replying with "What about white people though!" is an odd response isn't it?

 

[lenred]

1 hour ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Some of the extreme woke have arrived.

They will utter white privilege .. Hiss it.

It’s in the eyes ... You can see their madness.

They have been radicalised by the books of critical race theory.

Telling everybody what they are.

What you must believe.

Don’t do that and even don’t wear that cos its cultural appropriation.

Putting you in their boxes,

Society is systemically racist.

All white people are racist and have privilege.

Black people can’t be racist.

Prejudice from people of colour to POC is colourism not racism.

Your white kids are racist at birth.

History should be decolonised.

Whites have to atone for their history.

To disagree out comes the you’re a racist card .. A fave on the politics forum of the cult of woke.

These people are batshit crazy.

Some can be saved but some are too far gone now.

If a far gone one approaches you identify as black lgbtq+ Eskimo its the top trump (steady) identity card and cannot get be merked yet.

Stay safe out there.

You don’t half talk a load of shite. No one on here is claiming any of the items you have listed in your post.  Your post is verging on the hysterical (not in a funny way to be clear). Why do you feel the need to make things up? Would it not be more helpful to people on both sides to simply just engage in a grown up discussion as opposed to spouting your utter nonsense?  

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, richwwtk said:

It's not just me that finds All Lives Matter difficult when used as a response to Black Lives Matter, and I am sure that your friend would not have been aware as you point out.

But the fact remains that it can be seen in that way, and I am sure your friend would not have used the slogan had it been explained in advance, as I am sure he would have been keen to avoid even the slightest chance of his banner being perceived in that way.

I have responded to your use of All Lives Matter as being undeniably a racist slogan. The points and questions posed you have ignored. Its is easily deniable. It is illogical to use your rules where no other alternative can be considered. A mixed race group were using a undeniably racist slogan - All Lives Matter. That is nonsense. 

6 hours ago, Redinthehead said:

As per the politics forum - there has been no evidence prevented that they were called far-right. They were called  ‘right wing’, which they can get offended about by all means. However, no one, despite mentioning it many, many times can actually seem to show anywhere that they were called far right - other than the reference to it on their banner.

The group has been called various things. Most are that nonsense. 

As per politics forum. Why call people something they are not? What were the consequences? What was be implied/inferred? Were this group members of St Annes Conservative club?

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Some of the extreme woke have arrived.

They will utter white privilege .. Hiss it.

It’s in the eyes ... You can see their madness.

They have been radicalised by the books of critical race theory.

Telling everybody what they are.

What you must believe.

Don’t do that and even don’t wear that cos its cultural appropriation.

Putting you in their boxes,

Society is systemically racist.

All white people are racist and have privilege.

Black people can’t be racist.

Prejudice from people of colour to POC is colourism not racism.

Your white kids are racist at birth.

History should be decolonised.

Whites have to atone for their history.

To disagree out comes the you’re a racist card .. A fave on the politics forum of the cult of woke.

These people are batshit crazy.

Some can be saved but some are too far gone now.

If a far gone one approaches you identify as black lgbtq+ Eskimo its the top trump (steady) identity card and cannot get be merked yet.

Stay safe out there.

Jesus. U OK HUN? 

[Sixtyseconds]

20 minutes ago, lenred said:

You don’t half talk a load of shite. No one on here is claiming any of the items you have listed in your post.  Your post is verging on the hysterical (not in a funny way to be clear). Why do you feel the need to make things up? Would it not be more helpful to people on both sides to simply just engage in a grown up discussion as opposed to spouting your utter nonsense?  

White privilege.

People who know nothing about me telling me I and my family are privileged.

Its guff.

Afua Hirsch..

Rich parents.

Private education.

Brought up in Wimbledon.

Skiing holidays for school trips.

Writes about white privilege.

Err ...

 

[lenred]

17 minutes ago, Sixtyseconds said:

White privilege.

People who know nothing about me telling me I and my family are privileged.

Its guff.

Afua Hirsch..

Rich parents.

Private education.

Brought up in Wimbledon.

Skiing holidays for school trips.

Writes about white privilege.

Err ...

 

Wtf are you on about? Seriously you make no sense at all 

[sephjnr]

2 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Some of the extreme woke have arrived.

They will utter white privilege .. Hiss it.

It’s in the eyes ... You can see their madness.

They have been radicalised by the books of critical race theory.

Telling everybody what they are.

What you must believe.

Don’t do that and even don’t wear that cos its cultural appropriation.

Putting you in their boxes,

Society is systemically racist.

All white people are racist and have privilege.

Black people can’t be racist.

Prejudice from people of colour to POC is colourism not racism.

Your white kids are racist at birth.

History should be decolonised.

Whites have to atone for their history.

To disagree out comes the you’re a racist card .. A fave on the politics forum of the cult of woke.

These people are batshit crazy.

Some can be saved but some are too far gone now.

If a far gone one approaches you identify as black lgbtq+ Eskimo its the top trump (steady) identity card and cannot get be merked yet.

Stay safe out there.

This reads like Ron Manager went into politics.

[IAmNick]

51 minutes ago, Sixtyseconds said:

White privilege.

People who know nothing about me telling me I and my family are privileged.

Its guff.

Afua Hirsch..

Rich parents.

Private education.

Brought up in Wimbledon.

Skiing holidays for school trips.

Writes about white privilege.

Err ...

 

Nobody is "telling" you, specifically, anything. You're not understanding.

Amusingly you are the terminally offended here.  You're looking at discussions of our entire society and trying to apply them to yourself personally.

 

With "Stop and search" above, saying that massively more black people get stopped isn't saying no white people do, or that if you're white police wont target you unfairly.

It'd be like saying "1/3 people get cancer but I haven't got cancer. Are you trying to tell me I do?".

 

People are saying that in general if you look across all of our society then black folk have a measurably more difficult time.

That is NOT saying:

- ALL black folk are poor, or ALL black folk have a difficult time in life

- ALL white people have an easier life than ALL black people

- White people DON'T have difficult lives, or live in extreme poverty, get discriminated against, and have widespread problems we need to tackle, and so on

- An individual white person will always have an easier life than a black person

 

Why do people feel the need to take things so personally? I'm white, and accepting that we have systematic issues in our country isn't a negative thing for me, and doesn't make any struggles I've had feel easier or ignored or whatever. Why does this bother you so much?

[Wiltshire robin]

3 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Some of the extreme woke have arrived.

They will utter white privilege .. Hiss it.

It’s in the eyes ... You can see their madness.

They have been radicalised by the books of critical race theory.

Telling everybody what they are.

What you must believe.

Don’t do that and even don’t wear that cos its cultural appropriation.

Putting you in their boxes,

Society is systemically racist.

All white people are racist and have privilege.

Black people can’t be racist.

Prejudice from people of colour to POC is colourism not racism.

Your white kids are racist at birth.

History should be decolonised.

Whites have to atone for their history.

To disagree out comes the you’re a racist card .. A fave on the politics forum of the cult of woke.

These people are batshit crazy.

Some can be saved but some are too far gone now.

If a far gone one approaches you identify as black lgbtq+ Eskimo its the top trump (steady) identity card and cannot get be merked yet.

Stay safe out there.

It’s the same 4 or 5 accounts that literally turn every thread into a woke political thread too. This forums rarely ever about football now and more about certain posters telling users of this forum how privileged they are ( even though a lot are from working class backgrounds) . You can guarantee the ones spouting woke comments are from upper middle class backgrounds and have no clue what being working class and white is like .

[archie andrews]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

Nobody is "telling" you, specifically, anything. You're not understanding.

Amusingly you are the terminally offended here.  You're looking at discussions of our entire society and trying to apply them to yourself personally.

 

With "Stop and search" above, saying that massively more black people get stopped isn't saying no white people do, or that if you're white police wont target you unfairly.

It'd be like saying "1/3 people get cancer but I haven't got cancer. Are you trying to tell me I do?".

 

People are saying that in general if you look across all of our society then black folk have a measurably more difficult time.

That is NOT saying:

- ALL black folk are poor, or ALL black folk have a difficult time in life

- ALL white people have an easier life than ALL black people

- White people DON'T have difficult lives, or live in extreme poverty, get discriminated against, and have widespread problems we need to tackle, and so on

- An individual white person will always have an easier life than a black person

 

Why do people feel the need to take things so personally? I'm white, and accepting that we have systematic issues in our country isn't a negative thing for me, and doesn't make any struggles I've had feel easier or ignored or whatever. Why does this bother you so much?

You dont half get your knickers in a twist dont you... 

[IAmNick]

18 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

You dont half get your knickers in a twist dont you... 

Grow up, it's called adults having a discussion  

18 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

It’s the same 4 or 5 accounts that literally turn every thread into a woke political thread too. This forums rarely ever about football now and more about certain posters telling users of this forum how privileged they are ( even though a lot are from working class backgrounds) . You can guarantee the ones spouting woke comments are from upper middle class backgrounds and have no clue what being working class and white is like .

Hahaha you have to be kidding, this is literally the only one non football thread on the entire front page. Don't be so dramatic.

You were there posting on the first page of this... laughable

Edited October 13, 2021 by IAmNick

[Wiltshire robin]

5 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Grow up, it's called adults having a discussion  

Hahaha you have to be kidding, this is literally the only one non football thread on the entire front page. Don't be so dramatic.

You were there posting on the first page of this... laughable

About csf not white privilege you melt