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1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

Nobody is "telling" you, specifically, anything. You're not understanding.

Amusingly you are the terminally offended here.  You're looking at discussions of our entire society and trying to apply them to yourself personally.

 

With "Stop and search" above, saying that massively more black people get stopped isn't saying no white people do, or that if you're white police wont target you unfairly.

It'd be like saying "1/3 people get cancer but I haven't got cancer. Are you trying to tell me I do?".

 

People are saying that in general if you look across all of our society then black folk have a measurably more difficult time.

That is NOT saying:

- ALL black folk are poor, or ALL black folk have a difficult time in life

- ALL white people have an easier life than ALL black people

- White people DON'T have difficult lives, or live in extreme poverty, get discriminated against, and have widespread problems we need to tackle, and so on

- An individual white person will always have an easier life than a black person

 

Why do people feel the need to take things so personally? I'm white, and accepting that we have systematic issues in our country isn't a negative thing for me, and doesn't make any struggles I've had feel easier or ignored or whatever. Why does this bother you so much?

You dont half get your knickers in a twist dont you... 

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18 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

You dont half get your knickers in a twist dont you... 

Grow up, it's called adults having a discussion  

18 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

It’s the same 4 or 5 accounts that literally turn every thread into a woke political thread too. This forums rarely ever about football now and more about certain posters telling users of this forum how privileged they are ( even though a lot are from working class backgrounds) . You can guarantee the ones spouting woke comments are from upper middle class backgrounds and have no clue what being working class and white is like .

Hahaha you have to be kidding, this is literally the only one non football thread on the entire front page. Don't be so dramatic.

You were there posting on the first page of this... laughable

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5 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Grow up, it's called adults having a discussion  

Hahaha you have to be kidding, this is literally the only one non football thread on the entire front page. Don't be so dramatic.

You were there posting on the first page of this... laughable

About csf not white privilege you melt

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17 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Its half time..

All Lives Matter is a thing in America well a context is its four thousand miles away. However, you decide that this should define the use of language here. You want to enforce your rules of speech.

Society uses due process. Facts. The facts I posted are the context. The group was multi racial, the wording on the banner was unambiguous and clearly not racist. Facts. A context you then decided was irrelevant. Your rules. 

These were working class bloke, not linguists. People can have a different world view to yours and have different standards. Not wrong different.  

Why does distance matter? Black Lives Matter is an american political movement, so the knee here has no relevance to it then... but you insist it's intrinsically linked? You want to enforce your rules of speech / action.

 

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4 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Why does distance matter? Black Lives Matter is an american political movement, so the knee here has no relevance to it then... but you insist it's intrinsically linked? You want to enforce your rules of speech / action.

 

Because what occurs here shapes our communication, our lives and experiences. Our experiences and world view can alter with our postcode. Somebody living in BS8 V BS13 can see things differently. The poster was suggesting the alien, something from four thousand miles away shapes how somebody coming from a working-class area in Bristol should think.  

The taking the of knee. It is alien to the UK. It is imported. I have stated that it represents differing things to differing people. Not one thing, only one interpretation, one rule.

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3 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

White privilege.

People who know nothing about me telling me I and my family are privileged.

Its guff.

Afua Hirsch..

Rich parents.

Private education.

Brought up in Wimbledon.

Skiing holidays for school trips.

Writes about white privilege.

Err ...

 

 

57 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

It’s the same 4 or 5 accounts that literally turn every thread into a woke political thread too. This forums rarely ever about football now and more about certain posters telling users of this forum how privileged they are ( even though a lot are from working class backgrounds) . You can guarantee the ones spouting woke comments are from upper middle class backgrounds and have no clue what being working class and white is like .

I think people like yourselves get too hung up on the word priviledge. Taking it too literally as having advantages or special rights.

The poster who used the term Black Disadvantage put it better. It's not about all white people necessarily having an "easy" life, it's just we don't have that specific disadvantage that some people do.

Anyway, that's away from the point of the discussion - threads like this were always going to have a political edge, it's a political topic. Not sure why it's still in the football chat tbh as for my mind the CSF has very little to do with football, I am sure many will disagree.

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Just now, MarcusX said:

 

I think people like yourselves get too hung up on the word priviledge. Taking it too literally as having advantages or special rights.

 

What else does the word privilege mean? 

Clearly those who have compiled dictionaries were not best placed to explain the real meaning of the word.

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11 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Because what occurs here shapes our communication, our lives and experiences. Our experiences and world view can alter with our postcode. Somebody living in BS8 V BS13 can see things differently. The poster was suggesting the alien, something from four thousand miles away shapes how somebody coming from a working-class area in Bristol should think.  

The taking the of knee. It is alien to the UK. It is imported. I have stated that it represents differing things to differing people. Not one thing, only one interpretation, one rule.

No you've taken the facts of what the players have said about why they are taking the knee, and said that's not true it means something else.

You're now taking the facts of what your friend said about using "all lives matter" on a banner and there's no way it can mean anything else to anyone.

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Just now, Cowshed said:

What else does the word privilege mean? 

Clearly those who have compiled dictionaries were not best placed to explain the real meaning of the word.

My point was that privilege isn't a good word for it because a white person from a poor or disadvantaged background (one I came from I'll add) won't see themselves as "privileged" in the traditional sense of the word.

Anway as I said, it's moved away from the point of the topic

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Just now, MarcusX said:

No you've taken the facts of what the players have said about why they are taking the knee, and said that's not true it means something else.

 

To other individuals. Which is a reality isn't it?

2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

 

You're now taking the facts of what your friend said about using "all lives matter" on a banner and there's no way it can mean anything else to anyone.

You are tieing yourself in knots. 

Another individual stated the slogan was undeniably racist. I disagree and so do others = It can mean something very different. 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

To other individuals. Which is a reality isn't it?

You are tieing yourself in knots. 

Another individual stated the slogan was undeniably racist. I disagree and so do others = It can mean something very different. 

I never said that though, so not relevant to me?

Ok, leaving it there, apparently 1 can mean something else to other people but the other can't. You can't see the double standards of your opinions on these two matters.

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5 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I never said that though, so not relevant to me?

 

 It was an example of a differing view and a relevant answer to your point.

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

You're now taking the facts of what your friend said about using "all lives matter" on a banner and there's no way it can mean anything else to anyone.

A poster asserted the words All Lives Matter can have a non literal undeniably racist meaning due to what occurs four thousand miles away. Within this thread you take exception to a multi racial group displaying banner displaying that phrase. You used the I'm not racist trope. You feel the phrase All Lives Matter is provocative.

Others clearly have a differing views that it is not racist -. All Lives Matter can mean All Lives Matter.

9 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Ok, leaving it there, apparently 1 can mean something else to other people but the other can't. 

Again you tie yourself in knots. At no point have I said that. 

30 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

You can't see the double standards of your opinions on these two matters.

I see double standards. The scrutiny applied to the words All Lives Matter on a banner is an example. 

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Woke is a tool for the elites.

Create woke wars.

Create a woke monoculture. 

Create a woke batshit crazy language full of ism, ists and obias that bears no relation to the lives of good people.

Discuss nothing outside of the chosen woke narrative

Attack those who wont bend and take the woke narrative.

Divide Western Societies.

And the elite and corrupt hoover up democracies, economies and freedoms.

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1 hour ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Woke is a tool for the elites.

Create woke wars.

Create a woke monoculture. 

Create a woke batshit crazy language full of ism, ists and obias that bears no relation to the lives of good people.

Discuss nothing outside of the chosen woke narrative

Attack those who wont bend and take the woke narrative.

Divide Western Societies.

And the elite and corrupt hoover up democracies, economies and freedoms.

Great point.

Famously the elite are HUGE fans of challenging and changing the societies they exist in that made them elite in the first place.

Famously they also want to improve the lot and life of the most downtrodden in the society, usually the ones they take advantage of to make their obscene wealth.

I can see it now. The world's billionaires huddled around a table. Finally they have hoovered up 99% of the wealth on our planet and they can enact their master plan - increasing and protecting human rights, letting people choose their pronouns, and fighting racism.

What planet do you live on?!

  

2 hours ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Football fans going on about bending the knee have a look at whose taken over Newcastle. Football fans going on about three words being on banner whose taken over Newcastle!!! these woke social justice circus fans will get behind the world cup in qatar as well.

This is such a stupid argument. You couldn't exist in society if you held yourself to these standards and refused to do anything that had even the most tangential relation to something you disagreed with.

Given the club take the knee by your logic above you should stop supporting City?

Edited by IAmNick
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19 hours ago, Cowshed said:

A poster asserted the words All Lives Matter can have a non literal undeniably racist meaning due to what occurs four thousand miles away. Within this thread you take exception to a multi racial group displaying banner displaying that phrase. You used the I'm not racist trope. You feel the phrase All Lives Matter is provocative.

And yet you happily associate taking the knee with events from America, and use that as part of your basis for the dislike of it.

You also ignore that the people doing it have said WHY they are (the equivalent of the words on the banner), and instead focus on your perception of it.

I think you're the one tied in knots here.

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On 13/10/2021 at 12:11, IAmNick said:

Nobody is "telling" you, specifically, anything. You're not understanding.

Amusingly you are the terminally offended here.  You're looking at discussions of our entire society and trying to apply them to yourself personally.

 

With "Stop and search" above, saying that massively more black people get stopped isn't saying no white people do, or that if you're white police wont target you unfairly.

It'd be like saying "1/3 people get cancer but I haven't got cancer. Are you trying to tell me I do?".

 

People are saying that in general if you look across all of our society then black folk have a measurably more difficult time.

That is NOT saying:

- ALL black folk are poor, or ALL black folk have a difficult time in life

- ALL white people have an easier life than ALL black people

- White people DON'T have difficult lives, or live in extreme poverty, get discriminated against, and have widespread problems we need to tackle, and so on

- An individual white person will always have an easier life than a black person

 

Why do people feel the need to take things so personally? I'm white, and accepting that we have systematic issues in our country isn't a negative thing for me, and doesn't make any struggles I've had feel easier or ignored or whatever. Why does this bother you so much?

It’s because it’s being used as a means to disadvantage people that are already disadvantaged, but not because of their race.
 

As an example, Avon and Somerset Police didn’t prevent rich white men from joining, they prevented two hundred white men without any consideration for their so-called privilege or lack of. It’s appalling that this is so accepted, Colin Port should have been sacked. Instead the practice was dropped and instead Port started campaigning for a change in the law, using the same tax money paid by the people he was discriminating against. And you can argue it was only two hundred guys, but those two hundred will now be hearing nonsense about how privileged they are and how they may have troubles but it won’t be because of their skin colour.
 

People take it personally because making sweeping statements about privilege and advantage is judging people by the colour of their skin and not the content of their character.

 

On 13/10/2021 at 13:25, Wiltshire robin said:

It’s the same 4 or 5 accounts that literally turn every thread into a woke political thread too. This forums rarely ever about football now and more about certain posters telling users of this forum how privileged they are ( even though a lot are from working class backgrounds) . You can guarantee the ones spouting woke comments are from upper middle class backgrounds and have no clue what being working class and white is like .

A study in the US found exactly this. They can feel guilty if they want, but excesses of virtue are worse than excesses of vice as the former isn’t subject to the regulation of conscience. 

Edited by luke_bristol
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1 hour ago, luke_bristol said:

t’s because it’s being used as a means to disadvantage people that are already disadvantaged, but not because of their race.
 

As an example, Avon and Somerset Police didn’t prevent rich white men from joining, they prevented two hundred white men without any consideration for their so-called privilege or lack of. It’s appalling that this is so accepted, Colin Port should have been sacked. Instead the practice was dropped and instead Port started campaigning for a change in the law, using the same tax money paid by the people he was discriminating against. And you can argue it was only two hundred guys, but those two hundred will now be hearing nonsense about how privileged they are and how they may have troubles but it won’t be because of their skin colour.
 

People take it personally because making sweeping statements about privilege and advantage is judging people by the colour of their skin and not the content of their character.

Can you link some info about this please?

Were they prevented due to white privilege?

Just had a look and all I can find that even seems to be slightly related is A&S having to pay out to a single white person fifteen years ago, with this Colin Port admitting it was wrong to discriminate based on his race. Not so accepted then..?

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

1 hour ago, luke_bristol said:

 

On 13/10/2021 at 13:25, Wiltshire robin said:

It’s the same 4 or 5 accounts that literally turn every thread into a woke political thread too. This forums rarely ever about football now and more about certain posters telling users of this forum how privileged they are ( even though a lot are from working class backgrounds) . You can guarantee the ones spouting woke comments are from upper middle class backgrounds and have no clue what being working class and white is like .

A study in the US found exactly this. They can feel guilty if they want, but excesses of virtue are worse than excesses of vice as the former isn’t subject to the regulation of conscience. 

Can you link the study please?

What do you classify as an excess of virtue? Who judges that?

What excessively virtuous opinions do you regularly come across, on this thread for example?

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11 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Did%20Didn't.gif?cb=f56a29941e04e1146ffd

As we all do I generally surround myself with people who broadly have similar opinions to me. I like coming on here for a "discussion" as I get a whole range of stuff I don't normally get first hand. It's interesting.

Also I'm just an argumentative bugger as well of course ;) 

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21 hours ago, Trueredsupporter said:

Football fans going on about bending the knee have a look at whose taken over Newcastle. Football fans going on about three words being on banner whose taken over Newcastle!!! these woke social justice circus fans will get behind the world cup in qatar as well.

Not that this thread is about taking the knee... but I get the point, but you can always provide a "what about" statement. I hope you don't use Facebook, Uber, Disney+, never got on a Boeing plane, or voted for the Tories if you are that opposed to Saudi investment, just to name a few.

We as fans, especially City, have little control over what happens in Newcastle or the World Cup. I've been to the last 3 tournaments but won't be going to Qatar, I don't plan to go to St James Park anytime soon either.

19 hours ago, Three Lions said:

See the swerve. Still banging on about a group of City fans who were white black asian mixed race catholic Italian displaying a banner saying All Lives Matter while at Newcastle those who think they dont have bought the club.

What swerve? This thread is specifically about the cenotaph. If you'd like to discuss the Newcastle take over, start a thread on it...

Again though, if you're that upset about Saudi investment I'd love to know what else you boycott in life to avoid their funding?

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18 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

What swerve? This thread is specifically about the cenotaph. If you'd like to discuss the Newcastle take over, start a thread on it...

 

Step over?

Side step?

Start a thread more rools.

You introduced bending the genu. 

Newcastle take over and bending the knee.

Here at St James park their bending the knee in poweful statement against inequality.

In todays news Amnesty international condemn Saudi Arabias appalling human rights record.

 

 

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