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Phil Brown sacked again


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Just playing devil's advocate, but are most managers in reality all about the same level and once in a while more by luck than judgement stumble across the right formation to suit their players. 

Phil Brown had enough about him to outfox GJ at  Wembley and their they both are until yesterday managing in the 5th tier.

Was he a good manager once or as subsequent events have shown just a false dawn

In PB's case I think his ego was the problem and his reputation never recovered.

 

image.jpeg.7e3e0756945093eaa58e7fbcfed51778.jpeg

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He's had an ok-ish career but Hull was his high point. He not only got them into the Prem, he kept them there for their first season.

Would think he still has a good reputation at Hull, gave them a load of good memories even if didn't end well.

We have Alan Dicks, who many supporters think well of - and that didn't end well either.

Maybe a few parallels there?

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17 minutes ago, Calculus said:

He's had an ok-ish career but Hull was his high point. He not only got them into the Prem, he kept them there for their first season.

Would think he still has a good reputation at Hull, gave them a load of good memories even if didn't end well.

We have Alan Dicks, who many supporters think well of - and that didn't end well either.

Maybe a few parallels there?

Most managers get the sack don't they, so I guess it doesn't usually end well.

We seemed to be punching above our weight whilst we were in division one - even getting their was a great acheivement. Better to have loved and lost and all that, and that's down to AD and his staff. He will always be held in high regard by those that remember those times.

It seems to me that the directors/owners of the club mismanaged players/contracts so badly following the Gary Collier debacle - put a millstone around the manager's neck, and sank us into financial and footballing ruin.

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The Shrimpers are my local club and are unfortunately a complete basket case. Yesterday’s game was halted for 8 minutes as fans protested on the pitch against the current owner Ron Martin, the second pitch invasion in consecutive matches. So many problems off the pitch, echoes of the blue few with, in this case Sainsbury’s  pulling out of a proposed ground purchase just over 10 years ago. It’s been a downward spiral for years and although hopeful I’m not confident that the future bodes well for this well loved club. I was told there were more than 6000 there yesterday which shows great support for a National League team. 

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That final was as close as any game can be, we actually started it the better side & missed a couple of half chances.

Losing McCombe the night before & then Orr in the first half was rotten luck, though as completely obsessed as people have since become over LJ coming on as result, our real issue in it was the inability of Trundle (who was very poor on the day), Adebola or Byfield (on as a sub) to score.

I don’t actually think Brown is any better a manager than GJ was at the time, he just had the breaks on that particular day.

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14 minutes ago, Hadleigh Red said:

The Shrimpers are my local club and are unfortunately a complete basket case. Yesterday’s game was halted for 8 minutes as fans protested on the pitch against the current owner Ron Martin, the second pitch invasion in consecutive matches. So many problems off the pitch, echoes of the blue few with, in this case Sainsbury’s  pulling out of a proposed ground purchase just over 10 years ago. It’s been a downward spiral for years and although hopeful I’m not confident that the future bodes well for this well loved club. I was told there were more than 6000 there yesterday which shows great support for a National League team. 

They`ve always struggled for crowds due to losing fans to (mainly) West Ham. IIRC, like Tranmere, they used to play home games on a Friday night to try and attract fans  - I know I`ve seen City there on a Friday a couple of times - and apart from one brief, one - season foray into the Championship about fifteen years ago have always been in the bottom two divisions I think. They went up as champions by beating us 1-0!

The days of Stan Collymore and Freddy Eastwood are ancient history now. I do hope they survive but fear the worst.

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We had nothing but bad luck at Wembley, compounded by poor showings on the part of our "star" players. 

That day still rankles with me because of the above. 

As for the spectacular winning goal - well on another day it may just as easily have ended up in Row Z.

Thems the breaks.

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23 hours ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Just playing devil's advocate, but are most managers in reality all about the same level and once in a while more by luck than judgement stumble across the right formation to suit their players. 

Phil Brown had enough about him to outfox GJ at  Wembley and their they both are until yesterday managing in the 5th tier.

Was he a good manager once or as subsequent events have shown just a false dawn

In PB's case I think his ego was the problem and his reputation never recovered.

 

image.jpeg.7e3e0756945093eaa58e7fbcfed51778.jpeg

Sorry I don't agree with this. 

GJ was undone by a combination of a first-team player being taken ill the day of the match (McCoombe??) forcing GJ to re-jig his squad at the last minute, followed by an awful injury to Orr (fractured cheek-bone) during the game and a wonder-strike from an old dinosaur who had never hit one like that before and would never recreate that again. 

I think Hull were lucky on that day - or perhaps WE were REALLY unlucky, rather than Phil Brown 'out foxing' us with clever tactics.

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On 10/10/2021 at 11:58, Calculus said:

He's had an ok-ish career but Hull was his high point. He not only got them into the Prem, he kept them there for their first season.

Would think he still has a good reputation at Hull, gave them a load of good memories even if didn't end well.

We have Alan Dicks, who many supporters think well of - and that didn't end well either.

Maybe a few parallels there?

 

Either Churchill or some other bloke in a suit yonks ago said: "All political lives end in failure."

The same could largely be said for all football management careers. Rare is the Fergie type who retires in triumph. At best, most have a series of glory years to look back on, alongside numerous could-have-done-better-years.

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On 10/10/2021 at 10:39, Abraham Romanovich said:

Just playing devil's advocate, but are most managers in reality all about the same level and once in a while more by luck than judgement stumble across the right formation to suit their players. 

Phil Brown had enough about him to outfox GJ at  Wembley and their they both are until yesterday managing in the 5th tier.

Was he a good manager once or as subsequent events have shown just a false dawn

In PB's case I think his ego was the problem and his reputation never recovered.

 

image.jpeg.7e3e0756945093eaa58e7fbcfed51778.jpeg

Think you might be getting mixed up with the 2004 final when Danny Wilson managed to outfox himself.

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On 10/10/2021 at 10:39, Abraham Romanovich said:

Just playing devil's advocate, but are most managers in reality all about the same level and once in a while more by luck than judgement stumble across the right formation to suit their players. 

Phil Brown had enough about him to outfox GJ at  Wembley and their they both are until yesterday managing in the 5th tier.

Was he a good manager once or as subsequent events have shown just a false dawn

In PB's case I think his ego was the problem and his reputation never recovered.

 

image.jpeg.7e3e0756945093eaa58e7fbcfed51778.jpeg

I think PB got lucky on that particular day, especially with our injuries. They got a wonder goal and then left Frazer Campbell with his pace up front to keep us busy whilst his team defended stoutly. I think GJ was by far the better coach. I have often thought we would've made a better job of the Premier League than Hull ever did. 

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As others have said, Brown didn't outfox Gary Johnson. We had bad luck on the day with McCoombe pulling out through illness and then Orr getting badly injured early on when Bristol City were on top. Unfortunately, Johnson, as he did several times that season, rather than make a substitution straight away let us play on for several minutes with ten men while Orr received lengthy treatment. It was then that City surrendered the initiative and when Orr returned to the pitch clearly far from 100%, Hull scored. They didn't do a great deal after that especially when Orr was finally substituted and they were again playing 11 fit men.

I would hardly call that Phil Brown outfoxing Gary Johnson more a case of bad luck on the day and then GJ outfoxing himself.

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10 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

As others have said, Brown didn't outfox Gary Johnson. We had bad luck on the day with McCoombe pulling out through illness and then Orr getting badly injured early on when Bristol City were on top. Unfortunately, Johnson, as he did several times that season, rather than make a substitution straight away let us play on for several minutes with ten men while Orr received lengthy treatment. It was then that City surrendered the initiative and when Orr returned to the pitch clearly far from 100%, Hull scored. They didn't do a great deal after that especially when Orr was finally substituted and they were again playing 11 fit men.

I would hardly call that Phil Brown outfoxing Gary Johnson more a case of bad luck on the day and then GJ outfoxing himself.

Make all the excuse you like but I was at Wembley that day and City had zero shots on goal. It was a dreadful performance and rated the dullest play off final upto that point. I doubt any since have so boring since either………….:sleeping:

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28 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Make all the excuse you like but I was at Wembley that day and City had zero shots on goal. It was a dreadful performance and rated the dullest play off final upto that point. I doubt any since have so boring since either………….:sleeping:

It's not like you to deliberately bend the truth to fit your anti Johnson agenda...

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17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Those stats are nonsense. I can’t remember one single shot on target the entire game and I was there!

Hmmm.

You are a medical man, so will understand I am sure that, as we get older, our memory fades.

I was also there, and remember several shots on target, notably one from Dele Adebola.

This may help to jog your memory - Sorry about the picture :

 

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1 hour ago, handsofclay said:

As others have said, Brown didn't outfox Gary Johnson. We had bad luck on the day with McCoombe pulling out through illness and then Orr getting badly injured early on when Bristol City were on top. Unfortunately, Johnson, as he did several times that season, rather than make a substitution straight away let us play on for several minutes with ten men while Orr received lengthy treatment. It was then that City surrendered the initiative and when Orr returned to the pitch clearly far from 100%, Hull scored. They didn't do a great deal after that especially when Orr was finally substituted and they were again playing 11 fit men.

I would hardly call that Phil Brown outfoxing Gary Johnson more a case of bad luck on the day and then GJ outfoxing himself.

Sorry perhaps I have failed to make myself clear, my original post started from the assumption that all managers are of a relative equal standard and it is more by luck than judgement whether they are successful.

Phil Brown is a good example he must have had something about him to reach a play off final and keep Hull in the PL but since then his magic seems to have worn thin.

So the question remains was he a good manager or a bad manager who got lucky.

(Agree outfoxed was not the correct choice of words ,events conspired against us that day)

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4 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Hmmm.

You are a medical man, so will understand I am sure that, as we get older, our memory fades.

I was also there, and remember several shots on target, notably one from Dele Adebola.

This may help to jog your memory - Sorry about the picture :

 

Show me where City had a shot on target? I just watched the highlights and there are none.

Seeing that Windass strike was really impressive. Terrific volley.

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6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Show me where City had a shot on target? I just watched the highlights and there are none.

Seeing that Windass strike was really impressive. Terrific volley.

Yes, upon reflection, that was not the best choice of highlights - I chose it quickly and only realised subsequently that it was, in fact, from Hull's site - but you can see Adebola's blocked shot.

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2 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Yes, upon reflection, that was not the best choice of highlights - I chose it quickly and only realised subsequently that it was, in fact, from Hull's site - but you can see Adebola's blocked shot.

I repeat - City had zero shots on target. The dullest play off final according to the pundits.

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49 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I repeat - City had zero shots on target. The dullest play off final according to the pundits.

I see your doubling down on your nonsense. I suppose I should have expected nothing less! Obviously your memory after 13 years is more accurate than a match report written minutes after the event... 🙄

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5 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

I see your doubling down on your nonsense. I suppose I should have expected nothing less! Obviously your memory after 13 years is more accurate than a match report written minutes after the event... 🙄

How busy was their ‘keeper - how many shots did he save? None is the answer.

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A very odd character with a big ego, not the sort I’d ever want at the Gate.

I saw him outside Wembley in the summer at the England semi final game. He was with 3 women who I presumed by their ages were his wife and 2 daughters. Anyway, he was having a complete meltdown with them about something. Not sure what it was but it made me laugh as the last time I saw him at Wembley I had the meltdown and he was laughing.

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I think what separates the top managers from the rest is the ability to move with the times and have more then just plan a. When plan a works, like it did with Brown at Hull, it works very well but it won't work forever and that's when they get found out. The top managers have the ability to change to plan b or c or even d. Moving with the times requires you now to play possession football and also have a 'sweeper keeper'. This is why there are very few top managers. 

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