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Bristol Manor Farm vs Paulton Rovers FA Trophy


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36 minutes ago, Snufflelufagus said:

I always found it quite odd that refs themselves didn't swear back at players. They get sworn at all the time in all leagues. Surely one or two of them might break and swear back at the manager/ players 

There is one case I am aware of that happened many years ago and involved a local referee.

I forget the referee's name, but he later served for many years as President of one of the Bristol Sunday leagues, and once had the pleasure of refereeing a game involving Denis Law. 

I can't recall the actual incident, but he once had reason to book Mr Law, who apparently gave the referee some abuse.

In so many words, the referee responded to the effect that, if Mr Law didn't like his decision, he should '**** Off back to Scotland!'  

Needless to say, the referee was reprimanded.

 

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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

To save anyone clicking on that god awful website....also makes it clear what the incidents were leading up to his outburst

 

Bristol Manor Farm manager Lee Lashenko has apologised and admits he cannot defend his actions towards referee Richard Lawrence in their FA Trophy defeat to Paulton Rovers, but has no intention of resigning.

Lashenko confronted Lawrence at the conclusion of the second round qualifying tie at The Creek in Portway, incensed at having been yellow carded in the second half for dissent and was then promptly shown a red card after the final whistle.

In footage now widely shared across social media and viewed more than 120,000 times, Lashenko repeatedly has to be held back by his players as he angrily gestures and charges towards the official with a list of profanities.

Former Premier League referee Mark Halsey stated on Twitter: “What an absolute disgrace. Football does not need people like thus involved in the game, for the good of football I hope the FA take the strongest of action possible.”

Speaking to Bristol Live, Lashenko – who has been in charge of Manor Farm for eight seasons – accepts he was in the wrong but has also apportioned a degree of blame for the incident towards referee Lawrence.

“I will apologise for heated words – because that’s all it was – there weren’t any actions, there wasn’t anything physical and it wouldn’t ever get to that,” Lashenko said.

“I’m not proud of my 20-second rant but that’s what came out of me at the time and then I disappeared to the changing room.

“It was a provoked reaction and if I’d have gone in (and spoke to the referee) an hour after, instead of straight away, I would have done things differently.

“I’m not proud but it’s something I’ve got to live with and something I’ve got to overcome. I’ll look at my actions and the first person I criticise is myself and I’m going to learn from it and ensure my calmness after a game is a bit more long-term.

 

“Maybe I shouldn’t shake referee’s hands after a game and, win, lose or draw, I should go straight into the dressing room and see them for a pint in the bar instead. That’s something I’ve got to work on.”

The Manor Farm manager’s gripe appears to be with the original decision to book him for the dissent, with the referee apparently unable to identify where the abuse had originated from, and then the official’s reaction when he approached him at full-time.

“I was booked for a comment midway through the second-half from an area of the ground with a lot of people, all with similar accents, and when the referee booked me he admitted, ‘you’ll have to do, Lee,’" Lashenko added.

“I didn’t know that if there’s a comment made from the dugout or the area of the dugout, if they (referees) believe it’s been made from the dugout then as the manager, as the senior person, you have to carry the can.

“At the end of the game, I went onto the pitch, as I always do, to shake everybody’s hands and I told the referee in no uncertain terms that I’d lost a lot of respect for him, with regards to his performance and the yellow card.

“If he had come over to me when he issued the yellow card and explained, ‘I’ve identified it’s come from your area, I can’t identify who it was so I’m giving you a yellow card’, I would have accepted it because as a manager you take responsibility.

“But after the game I said to him I thought his performance was f****** terrible - I’m no Snow White, just like most people in football - and his response was, ‘I’ve got a red card in my pocket’.

“Now, at that point he should have said, ‘I don’t want to talk to you but you were booked because of a comment in your area and here’s a red card for swearing’, or whatever.

“But to say, ‘I’ve got a red card in my pocket’, I felt he was trying to be above everybody else and that provoked the reaction from me.”

Lashenko claims both he and his 15-year-old son have received abusive text messages since the incident, as well as the general condemnation across social media.

The 44-year-old has no intention of resigning though, as he retains the support of Manor Farm.

“People make more of situations than what they are. People have seen a 50-second video and drawn their own conclusions,” he said.

“I’m going to be receiving a lot of negative publicity, and rightfully so. I’m not here to defend my actions, I can’t, but they were provoked and football is an emotional game.

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So he's upset with the ref because he, Lee, doesn't know the rules of the game. Then at FT went and told the ref he has no respect for him (because he was rightly booked according to the rules of the game), swore at the ref, then got upset because the ref, rightly, basically threatened him with a red card rather than actually sending him off (initially)😂. And now he's trying to justify it instead of holding his hands up and accepting full responsibility. Brilliant. 

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1 hour ago, arrytheb said:

So he's upset with the ref because he, Lee, doesn't know the rules of the game. Then at FT went and told the ref he has no respect for him (because he was rightly booked according to the rules of the game), swore at the ref, then got upset because the ref, rightly, basically threatened him with a red card rather than actually sending him off (initially)😂. And now he's trying to justify it instead of holding his hands up and accepting full responsibility. Brilliant. 

Firstly, it is years since I played football at any level, and I confess that the rules seem to have changed so much that I have no idea whether or not LL deserved his first yellow card.

He states that he was booked due to a comment that came from the dugout and suggests that, even though he didn’t make said comment, he was booked as he was the manager and, presumably, as the culprit couldn’t be identified, he was responsible (as manager) for the comment even though he didn’t make it.

You state that LL was booked in accordance with the rules of the game, but is my interpretation correct?

Thanks in advance for your response.

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12 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Firstly, it is years since I played football at any level, and I confess that the rules seem to have changed so much that I have no idea whether or not LL deserved his first yellow card.

He states that he was booked due to a comment that came from the dugout and suggests that, even though he didn’t make said comment, he was booked as he was the manager and, presumably, as the culprit couldn’t be identified, he was responsible (as manager) for the comment even though he didn’t make it.

You state that LL was booked in accordance with the rules of the game, but is my interpretation correct?

Thanks in advance for your response.

Just to add, there were supporters stood around the dugouts as well, so entire possible it wasn't made by one of the club staff

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Hilarious some of the comments on this thread.  He had a rant. It’s definitely wrong but it’s not anything too dissimilar that we’ve seen from the likes of Warnock etc over the years.  LL has given years of service to Manor Farm and non league football in general. He’s admitted he’s made a big mistake and will rightly face punishment but calls for him to face 10 year or even life time bans are frankly truly ridiculous. 

Edited by lenred
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4 hours ago, Snufflelufagus said:

I always found it quite odd that refs themselves didn't swear back at players. They get sworn at all the time in all leagues. Surely one or two of them might break and swear back at the manager/ players 

I'm sure if you've got a bit of personality about you and swore back at the players in the "right way", if you get my meaning, most players would be alright with it.

4 hours ago, Snufflelufagus said:

I always found it quite odd that refs themselves didn't swear back at players. They get sworn at all the time in all leagues. Surely one or two of them might break and swear back at the manager/ players 

I'm sure if you've got a bit of personality about you and swore back at the players in the "right way", if you get my meaning, most players would be alright with it.

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1 hour ago, Super said:

What a complete moron. Should be fired without doubt.

That would certainly be the "football way"........ensure the Manager of Bristol Manor Farm gets the book thrown at him whilst loads of Managers in the Premier League and EFL get away with equally if not worse threatening behaviour this season. That should sort things out........

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20 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That would certainly be the "football way"........ensure the Manager of Bristol Manor Farm gets the book thrown at him whilst loads of Managers in the Premier League and EFL get away with equally if not worse threatening behaviour this season. That should sort things out........

Absolutely!

The whole, ‘introduce draconian rules at grass roots level but let the superstars do and influence as they wish’ approach 😂

Thats how you instigate change in an institution, bully the the lowest levels whilst the very top do as they wish 👍

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4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Best retort I heard from a ref was “don’t talk like a c#£& and play like one too” 😱

My favourite has to be Razor Ruddock on ref Roger Milford. Playing for Southampton against Arsenal he told Milford he was having a ****king nightmare and called him a ****. Milford, calling Ruddock over said Look at the Scoreboard. Your losing 3-1 so it's you who's having a ******* nightmare and playing like a ****. Now **** off. 

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1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Firstly, it is years since I played football at any level, and I confess that the rules seem to have changed so much that I have no idea whether or not LL deserved his first yellow card.

He states that he was booked due to a comment that came from the dugout and suggests that, even though he didn’t make said comment, he was booked as he was the manager and, presumably, as the culprit couldn’t be identified, he was responsible (as manager) for the comment even though he didn’t make it.

You state that LL was booked in accordance with the rules of the game, but is my interpretation correct?

Thanks in advance for your response.

Yes mate, that's the rule now. 

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1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

Just to add, there were supporters stood around the dugouts as well, so entire possible it wasn't made by one of the club staff

And that's a fair point and especially in NLGs where fans can be literally be stood next to a managers. It does appear from his statement that he's accepted it likely did come from the dugout. 

As someone who's been in management in Western league, I'd be making it clear that if I'm to get booked for someone saying something, I want that someone to be me and not someone sat on the bench behind me. (That's a lot of 'someone's')

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2 hours ago, Super said:

What a complete moron. Should be fired without doubt.

Who, the Manager or the Ref? I’ve read the post @phantom provided and neither of them come out blameless, but neither warrants being sacked. Just my opinion though.

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11 minutes ago, arrytheb said:

And that's a fair point and especially in NLGs where fans can be literally be stood next to a managers. It does appear from his statement that he's accepted it likely did come from the dugout. 

As someone who's been in management in Western league, I'd be making it clear that if I'm to get booked for someone saying something, I want that someone to be me and not someone sat on the bench behind me. (That's a lot of 'someone's')

Who’d you manage?

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1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Firstly, it is years since I played football at any level, and I confess that the rules seem to have changed so much that I have no idea whether or not LL deserved his first yellow card.

He states that he was booked due to a comment that came from the dugout and suggests that, even though he didn’t make said comment, he was booked as he was the manager and, presumably, as the culprit couldn’t be identified, he was responsible (as manager) for the comment even though he didn’t make it.

You state that LL was booked in accordance with the rules of the game, but is my interpretation correct?

Thanks in advance for your response.

Yes, two years ago a new law came in, basically if there is abuse from the dugout that would constitute a yellow or red card, and no one owns up to it ( if the actual person wasn’t originally identified). Then the senior official in the dugout ( the manager) gets given the punishment. 
For him to actually say he didn’t know this, is either total horlicks, or, what other laws of the game does he not understand!. 
 

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19 minutes ago, arrytheb said:

Yes mate, that's the rule now. 

 

3 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Yes, two years ago a new law came in, basically if there is abuse from the dugout that would constitute a yellow or red card, and no one owns up to it ( if the actual person wasn’t originally identified). Then the senior official in the dugout ( the manager) gets given the punishment. 
For him to actually say he didn’t know this, is either total horlicks, or, what other laws of the game does he not understand!. 
 

Hmm.

Obviously, I have no idea what happened or what was said after the final whistle, but it would seem (unless the comment was from a supporter) the first yellow card was warranted.

I assume that if a supporter had made the comment there would have been no yellow card, and it seems that the referee had no idea who made it, hence his comment ‘You’ll have to do’.

Out of interest, what would have happened if the comment had been made by LL and a nearby supporter, aware of the likely penalty, came forward, apologised and told the referee that he was the culprit - given that, to a non-Bristolian, all accents sound the same?

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On 10/10/2021 at 20:29, JamesBCFC said:

The referee was dreadful throughout the game (note this is not to justify the behaviour, nor the defeat, Paulton were superb going forward and a particular mention to their 10 who not only gave Manor Farm's defence a torrid time, but also spent a good chunk of the game defending in his own penalty area. The better team on the day won without question). But the referees performance was to the point where one would think he had been club appointed, and even Paulton players were commenting on how bad he was after the game.

After Farm had a player sent of (a rare correct decision, though the original booking was the player reacting to an appalling decision, the second yellow was a nailed on one and a silly tackle to make when already booked) frustrations were rising on the Farm bench.

Lashenko (Farm manager) got booked, or spoken to by the ref late on (do managers get booked? Or just spoken to before getting sent off)

After the game they had the post match handshake just to the right of the goal this was filmed from, everything seemed OK at that point.

Then something clearly got said by either the referee or linesman, because Lashenko completely lost it and turned, going for the ref, calling him a liar amongst other things (you can hear this at 12-13 seconds in).

He was initially pulled away by some players and then tried to have a second go, which is the part that's been filmed.

You can also hear one of the people who went to the game say "he was walking away from you".

I fully understood why he was frustrated, but his behaviour there isn't acceptable at all and he will rightly get a fine, match ban or both.

 

So the question is, how many of the outfield players were really poor on the day, and would it be acceptable if the officials tried to attack them because of their poor performance!

What the BMF manager did is 100% unacceptable, regardless of whether anyone thought the referee didn’t have a good game. 
Referees are quitting in massive numbers, I was told that nearly 50% of Hampshire’s referees have quit over the last 2 years. In Somerset there is a big shortage of referees, especially at youth level. Young lads who referee youth games are quitting because of the abuse they get, mainly from parents. Grown men threatening teenage referees, it’s sheer madness. 

At the moment the semi pro leagues aren’t effected, but with no referees coming along behind the current ones, It could well be that these leagues will be short of officials in time. 
Who in there right mind wants to put up with this sort of behaviour and the general 90 minutes of abuse every week. 
No ref, no game. The game needs to wake up, because the way things are going it’s going to happen sooner than a lot of people think. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

 

Hmm.

Obviously, I have no idea what happened or what was said after the final whistle, but it would seem (unless the comment was from a supporter) the first yellow card was warranted.

I assume that if a supporter had made the comment there would have been no yellow card, and it seems that the referee had no idea who made it, hence his comment ‘You’ll have to do’.

Out of interest, what would have happened if the comment had been made by LL and a nearby supporter, aware of the likely penalty, came forward, apologised and told the referee that he was the culprit - given that, to a non-Bristolian, all accents sound the same?

I think it would come down to how confident the ref or assistant ref is that it came from the bench. But that is a potential issue

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11 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

So the question is, how many of the outfield players were really poor on the day, and would it be acceptable if the officials tried to attack them because of their poor performance!

What the BMF manager did is 100% unacceptable, regardless of whether anyone thought the referee didn’t have a good game. 
Referees are quitting in massive numbers, I was told that nearly 50% of Hampshire’s referees have quit over the last 2 years. In Somerset there is a big shortage of referees, especially at youth level. Young lads who referee youth games are quitting because of the abuse they get, mainly from parents. Grown men threatening teenage referees, it’s sheer madness. 

At the moment the semi pro leagues aren’t effected, but with no referees coming along behind the current ones, It could well be that these leagues will be short of officials in time. 
Who in there right mind wants to put up with this sort of behaviour and the general 90 minutes of abuse every week. 
No ref, no game. The game needs to wake up, because the way things are going it’s going to happen sooner than a lot of people think. 

 

 

About 6 or 7 of Manor Farm's players were poor on the day. They all got criticism and probably some harsher words at half time (suspect the events with the ref somewhat changed what happened in the dressing room at full time).

No one has tried to suggest Lashenko's actions were justified or ok. My post was context around the game in general.

There's plenty that went on that the video doesn't show, which all adds to the bigger picture.

Can I understand why, given the referees performance and what he felt was an unfair booking on himself that he was angry? Yes.

Was his behaviour acceptable? No.

Should he get punished for it? Yes. 

Does the referee himself need reviewing after his performance? Yes.

 

Nuance is a thing.

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18 hours ago, phantom said:

To save anyone clicking on that god awful website....also makes it clear what the incidents were leading up to his outburst

 

Bristol Manor Farm manager Lee Lashenko has apologised and admits he cannot defend his actions towards referee Richard Lawrence in their FA Trophy defeat to Paulton Rovers, but has no intention of resigning.

Lashenko confronted Lawrence at the conclusion of the second round qualifying tie at The Creek in Portway, incensed at having been yellow carded in the second half for dissent and was then promptly shown a red card after the final whistle.

In footage now widely shared across social media and viewed more than 120,000 times, Lashenko repeatedly has to be held back by his players as he angrily gestures and charges towards the official with a list of profanities.

Former Premier League referee Mark Halsey stated on Twitter: “What an absolute disgrace. Football does not need people like thus involved in the game, for the good of football I hope the FA take the strongest of action possible.”

Speaking to Bristol Live, Lashenko – who has been in charge of Manor Farm for eight seasons – accepts he was in the wrong but has also apportioned a degree of blame for the incident towards referee Lawrence.

“I will apologise for heated words – because that’s all it was – there weren’t any actions, there wasn’t anything physical and it wouldn’t ever get to that,” Lashenko said.

“I’m not proud of my 20-second rant but that’s what came out of me at the time and then I disappeared to the changing room.

“It was a provoked reaction and if I’d have gone in (and spoke to the referee) an hour after, instead of straight away, I would have done things differently.

“I’m not proud but it’s something I’ve got to live with and something I’ve got to overcome. I’ll look at my actions and the first person I criticise is myself and I’m going to learn from it and ensure my calmness after a game is a bit more long-term.

 

“Maybe I shouldn’t shake referee’s hands after a game and, win, lose or draw, I should go straight into the dressing room and see them for a pint in the bar instead. That’s something I’ve got to work on.”

The Manor Farm manager’s gripe appears to be with the original decision to book him for the dissent, with the referee apparently unable to identify where the abuse had originated from, and then the official’s reaction when he approached him at full-time.

“I was booked for a comment midway through the second-half from an area of the ground with a lot of people, all with similar accents, and when the referee booked me he admitted, ‘you’ll have to do, Lee,’" Lashenko added.

“I didn’t know that if there’s a comment made from the dugout or the area of the dugout, if they (referees) believe it’s been made from the dugout then as the manager, as the senior person, you have to carry the can.

“At the end of the game, I went onto the pitch, as I always do, to shake everybody’s hands and I told the referee in no uncertain terms that I’d lost a lot of respect for him, with regards to his performance and the yellow card.

“If he had come over to me when he issued the yellow card and explained, ‘I’ve identified it’s come from your area, I can’t identify who it was so I’m giving you a yellow card’, I would have accepted it because as a manager you take responsibility.

“But after the game I said to him I thought his performance was f****** terrible - I’m no Snow White, just like most people in football - and his response was, ‘I’ve got a red card in my pocket’.

“Now, at that point he should have said, ‘I don’t want to talk to you but you were booked because of a comment in your area and here’s a red card for swearing’, or whatever.

“But to say, ‘I’ve got a red card in my pocket’, I felt he was trying to be above everybody else and that provoked the reaction from me.”

Lashenko claims both he and his 15-year-old son have received abusive text messages since the incident, as well as the general condemnation across social media.

The 44-year-old has no intention of resigning though, as he retains the support of Manor Farm.

“People make more of situations than what they are. People have seen a 50-second video and drawn their own conclusions,” he said.

“I’m going to be receiving a lot of negative publicity, and rightfully so. I’m not here to defend my actions, I can’t, but they were provoked and football is an emotional game.

That's a pretty hopeless justification of his actions, so one would assume he's looking at some kind of ban and fine. 

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20 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That's a pretty hopeless justification of his actions, so one would assume he's looking at some kind of ban and fine. 

Not sure it's a justification, really just saying it like it is. Given its not new for managers and players to go off handle it could of been handled better all round, which he has made mention of. 

Fine for sure, ban dosnt really achieve much but having players and coaches attend or take part in awareness courses would be far more effective, thats ultimately the key.

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15 hours ago, 2015 said:

Imagine thinking the guy should be sacked. Alex Ferguson would have been sacked about 50 times in his career if this is the case..

The FA did ban him from football activities about 50 times in his career. They're just waiting for him to pop his clogs and it's then safe for them to send official noticification of this.

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